{"id":300153,"date":"2018-02-21T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-02-21T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/heart-attitudes-and-the-home\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:20","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:20","slug":"heart-attitudes-and-the-home","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/heart-attitudes-and-the-home\/","title":{"rendered":"Heart Attitudes and the Home"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What should a woman&#8217;s attitude be toward her home? Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth and Barbara Rainey open the Scriptures to Titus 2 to see what Paul has to say about a woman&#8217;s role in the home.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-02-21.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:31:24","filesize":"28.75M","filesize_raw":"30143996","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2821,2093],"tags":[4254,4253],"podcast_series":[7156],"cwp_profile":[3052,3196],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300153","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-reaching-out","category-women","tag-titus-2","tag-womens-role","podcast_series-adorned-for-the-gospel","cwp_profile-barbara-rainey","cwp_profile-nancy-demoss-wolgemuth","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300153\/heart-attitudes-and-the-home","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300153\/heart-attitudes-and-the-home","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"dzi515zRYE\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/heart-attitudes-and-the-home\/\">Heart Attitudes and the Home<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/heart-attitudes-and-the-home\/embed\/#?secret=dzi515zRYE\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Heart Attitudes and the Home&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"dzi515zRYE\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-02-21.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-02-21.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In Titus, Chapter 2, there are very specific instructions for what older women ought to be teaching younger women in the church. Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth says, at least, four of those instructions relate to how a woman ought to be functioning at home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And I think what Paul is saying to Titus is: \u201cTell the women\u2014with whatever the temptations, and opportunities, and allurements may be in this world\u2014not to forget the priority of their home.\u201d It doesn\u2019t mean they never leave their home. It doesn\u2019t mean they don\u2019t have any work anywhere else outside their home. \u201cWhat you\u2019re doing at home <em>matters<\/em>\u2014it is part of the gospel story you and your husband are telling together.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, February 21<sup>st<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. What are the instructions that older women are to share with younger women about how they function at home? We\u2019ll spend time looking at that today with our guest, Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. So we\u2019re going to go here. I mean, you\u2019re ready for letters\/emails coming in; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Absolutely! Bring them\u2014write us!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> [Laughter] Well, look at you! \u201cCome on!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Bring it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to step into an area that there\u2019s some passion \/ some controversy around.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There is. To help stir the controversy, we have brought two women into the studio. One has been my friend \/ my bride\u2014compadre in the mission of building marriages and families, here, at FamilyLife over the past 41 years\u2014and my bride of 45 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She\u2019s been your friend longer than that; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She has.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How long have you been friends?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> So it would be three years plus 45\u201448.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; not bad. I had never thought about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m going to ask Barbara to introduce our guest on the program today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Our guest on the program today is our friend, Nancy Wolgemuth. Thanks for joining us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And Nancy\u2019s just written a book called <em>Adorned: Living Out the Beauty of the Gospel Together<\/em>. We want to talk about older women mentoring younger women today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And nobody really wants to be called an older woman\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> \u2014except <em>me<\/em>. [Laughter] From the time I was a little girl, I had this goal in life to be a godly old lady.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you have any idea when you were a younger woman that being a godly older woman would mean that you would have to take some courageous countercultural stands and, with grace, speak the truth in love but say, \u201cYou know, this is not what the Bible teaches, even though it\u2019s what the culture is teaching\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Well, I probably did have a sense that following Christ would be countercultural from the time I was young. But what I\u2019ve learned and am learning is that God\u2019s ways are, not only true and right, but they\u2019re also <em>good<\/em> and beautiful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think if we just have a sourness to us\u2014or a rough edge or a <em>hard<\/em> edge\u2014when we say some of these hard, biblical truths\u2014like starting with: \u201cJesus is the <em>only<\/em> way to the Father,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s a hard truth that is countercultural in our world. And then, you get into what the Scripture teaches about biblical manhood\/womanhood, and marriage, and relationships\u2014the world looks at you like you got two heads: \u201cYou\u2019re crazy!\u201d But I think if we can be warm, and engaging, and say: \u201cLook, God has <em>our<\/em> best interests at heart. He is wise. He is <em>good<\/em>. When we glorify Him and when we <em>follow<\/em> His ways, we\u2019re going to be blessed,\u201d\u2014that, I think, is a helpful way to approach some of these countercultural principles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So when an older woman today reads, in Titus, Chapter 2, that older women are to train younger women to love their husbands, love their children, be workers at home, be kind and submissive to their own husbands, you can <em>feel<\/em> them kind of go: \u201cIn today\u2019s culture\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> That\u2019s fight\u2019n words.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI\u2019m supposed to say this to younger women? Younger women will just laugh me ought of the room and say, \u2018You don\u2019t know what you\u2019re talking about Grandma!\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> They will say that; but what we need to say is: \u201cLook, this is not just for its own sake. This is not in a vacuumless teaching. This is how we show people what the gospel looks like.\u201d In fact, you didn\u2019t read the end of that\u2014verse 5, which says, \u201c\u2026in order that the Word of God may not be reviled.\u201d If we don\u2019t live out these principles\u2014why God made man, and women, and marriage, and family\u2014then the world is going to look at us, and we\u2019re going to make God look bad. We\u2019re going to make the gospel be <em>blasphemed<\/em>\u2014is actually the word there\u2014it\u2019s a really strong word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want my life to show people that God\u2019s ways and His Word are good, and right, and true. We do that by embracing God\u2019s plan, God\u2019s ways, and God\u2019s order for our lives and our families.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Earlier, Barbara talked about how Elisabeth Elliott had made a great impact in her life. I think about what she said about conforming to the culture and conforming to the world\u2019s ways. She basically said: \u201cIf what you\u2019re hearing from the world is easy and it appeals to the flesh and to pride\u2014it really speaks against what the Scripture teaches\u2014then you can pretty much count on it being from the world and a lie. It\u2019s not the truth.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNot everybody\u2019s going to agree on what the Scriptures teach, but there are assignments that God has for older women, with younger women, and specific teachings that they are to give the younger women. Let\u2019s just take some of these, Nancy. Pick the ones out of here that you think are most countercultural today, and the ones that you think older women need to be teaching younger women; and coach them in how to do this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Well, there\u2019s a curriculum here; and it\u2019s interesting to see what\u2019s <em>not<\/em> in this curriculum. It doesn\u2019t say anything about teaching them how to study the Bible, or how to pray, or how to evangelize\u2014all of which are important. But when he just limits it to these seven qualities that older women are to teach younger women, they have more to do with heart attitudes and the home. Isn\u2019t that interesting? At least four of them\u2014loving husbands, loving children, working at home, [and] submissive to their own husbands\u2014have to do with our <em>family<\/em> relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, he\u2019s not saying that is <em>all<\/em> there is; but he\u2019s saying: \u201cYou can\u2019t go out, as a woman, and go to Bible class, and be in small group, and sing on the worship team at church, and act like you love Jesus but things are <em>busted<\/em> at home. You\u2019re not prioritizing what\u2019s important to God.\u201d It\u2019s important to God, because it <em>relates<\/em> to the gospel. God is a <em>home-maker<\/em>\u2014He sets the lonely in families \/ He invites us to come to His home.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus is a <em>home-maker<\/em>\u2014He says, \u201cI am going to prepare a <em>home<\/em> for you.\u201d When <em>we<\/em> develop homes that honor Christ \/ that show the beauty of Christ, we\u2019re pointing people to the gospel. God is saying: \u201cThis matters. This is important. This is not a secondary issue.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, since Barbara\u2019s here, I just thought it\u2019d be a great question to ask her. As I look at that list, is it difficult for you to submit to me, as your husband and as the leader of our family?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Well, I can\u2019t say, like Elisabeth Elliott did: \u201c\u2026every minute of every day\u201d; right?\u2014isn\u2019t that what she said when you asked her that question?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; she said, \u201cWith every fiber of my being, I resist submitting to my husband.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> However, I will say, \u201cYes; there are times when it\u2019s hard for me to follow, because I want to do what I want to do.\u201d I think that\u2019s true for all of us in following Christ. We want to do what we want to do. We don\u2019t want to do what God wants us to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s even [truer] for women, because we have been instructed to follow our husbands. Lots of times that means I deny myself what I want to do and I follow your leadership.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; hey now\u2014because I\u2019m imagining a listener goes: \u201cThis is just not right! When it comes to the direction we go, as a family, how come he gets to pick and I\u2019m just supposed to go, \u2018Okay; if that\u2019s what you think, Sweetheart.\u2019\u201d Nancy, is that what this means?\u2014\u201csubmit to your husband.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> No; it\u2019s not. Let me just say one other thorny thing about this\u2014that some listeners are <em>thinking<\/em> because of experiences they\u2019ve had. When you talk about <em>submission<\/em> today, it sounds, to modern ears, like that\u2019s tantamount to promoting abuse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And there are women\u2014many of them \/ some listening right now\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right\u2014who are abused.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> \u2014have been abused by dads, by husbands, by men. They\u2019re going: \u201cYou\u2019re telling my husband he can tell me what to do, and I have to do everything. I\u2019m going to be bruised and black and blue over this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Some men have pulled verses like this\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Yes; they have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and used it as a justification for their abuse. That\u2019s a\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And actually, <em>never<\/em> in Scripture does God tell husbands to make their wives submit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> The submission is something that the <em>wife<\/em> is challenged to do as a voluntary choice\u2014as the church surrenders and submits to <em>Christ<\/em> as our head, and our king, and our <em>lover<\/em>, and our Lord. We are to reflect, in our marriages, that relationship between Christ and His church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You haven\u2019t seen this; but your husband Robert was out in the control room for a few moments, and he just stepped away. I\u2019m glad he came back in; because I wanted to ask you, \u201cDo you struggle with submitting to Robert?\u201d I know he\u2019s the <em>perfect<\/em> leader. [Laughter] He\u2019s written books on shepherding your wife.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Listen, you went 57 years without having to pay attention to <em>any<\/em> of these verses.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. Marriage has been a glorious, wonderful, <em>great<\/em> adjustment. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to say I am <em>hugely<\/em> blessed to be married to a man who loves Christ, loves me with all his heart, and is earnestly \/ always seeking to have us follow the Lord together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Okay; that\u2019s all good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> So, I\u2019m blessed on that; but yes\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I know. Give us an illustration when you really wanted to dig your heels in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s just say\u2014when we got married, through a whole series of circumstances and conversations, we ended up moving into what had been my home, as a single woman, for about 25 years. We agreed at\u2014we just felt like the Lord was leading this way. I was <em>very<\/em> happy\u2014I am <em>thrilled<\/em> to have him in what is now <em>our<\/em> home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut Robert is a builder. He looked at these closets that were so, in his view, disorganized and\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He is grinning right now\u2014big.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> \u2014and he envisioned shelves, and order, and cubby holes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Robert, would you come to my house?\u2014would you come to our house?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Please!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I need you for a <em>week<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> A lot of women would like this, and I love it <em>now<\/em>. But submission is not so much what happens in an individual moment or decision, but it\u2019s an <em>inclination<\/em> to follow leadership \/ to be led. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy husband also understands how important it is to love me well\u2014to be sensitive to what my needs are \/ to listen\u2014he asks my counsel, my opinion, [and] my positions on things. He said to me, early on\u2014and I say this because I think it would bless so many other wives if other men would say this to their wives\u2014he said, \u201cI don\u2019t want you ever to be afraid to say anything that\u2019s on your heart.\u201d That gave me freedom \/ that opened the door\u2014I knew my opinion was valued. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut when it came down to it, those closets got built in; but a wife\u2019s submission to her husband is her <em>greatest<\/em> expression of how much she trusts <em>God<\/em> to rule over both of their lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; if a wife says, \u201cI\u2019m not going to trust him unless I can know he\u2019s always going to make the right decision,\u201d well that\u2019s not going to happen. Russell Moore has said: \u201cIf you\u2019re agreeing with your husband, that\u2019s not submission\u2014that\u2019s agreement. Submission doesn\u2019t start until you disagree. It\u2019s when you disagree that you go, \u2018Now what am I going to do?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And I want to say\u2014this submission issue for us\u2014this might not be true for others; but for us, it\u2019s not like an every day issue. We talk through things \/ we pray through things. We, 90-some percent of the time, come to agreement; and one of us defers to the other. These are not matters of right and wrong \/ they\u2019re not matters of sinfulness. We\u2019re doing life together\u2014we\u2019re \u201cheirs together of the grace of life,\u201d Peter says. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, there are moments, where Robert is saying\u2014one of the first illustrations of this came \/ of this disposition to be leadable came, actually, before we were married. I wasn\u2019t his wife\u2014I didn\u2019t have to be submissive; but I was driving home from an event, where I had been speaking. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were talking on the phone. He was in another state; and he said to me: \u201cI just wish you could get on the road sooner so that it is not going to be such a late evening for you. I know it\u2019s been a long day.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, my initial reaction could have been: \u201cWho put you in charge here?! I\u2019m a grown up. I\u2019ve decided all these years what time I leave and what time I drive home.\u201d But by God\u2019s grace, as I was falling in love with this man\u2014this was very early on in our relationship\u2014but God just gave the grace to say: \u201cThank you for that input. Thank you for caring, and I\u2019m going to do that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, in that moment, I wasn\u2019t his wife. I didn\u2019t <em>have<\/em> to do that; but it set a path \/ it set a track that: \u201cI\u2019m going to <em>thank<\/em> God for putting this man in my life, who cares enough to protect, to provide, to lead. And I\u2019m going to have a disposition that is bent toward accommodating and agreeing.\u201d That\u2019s made our marriage a lot smoother than I think it would be otherwise.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I have to ask you before we run out of time\u2014\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014there\u2019s another phrase in Titus 2 that is one of those countercultural phrases. I hear women, who say: \u201cHow come it says women are to be lovers of their husbands, lovers of their children, workers at home; and there\u2019s not \u2018Men are to be lovers of their wives, lovers of their children, and workers at home\u2019? This just does not sound <em>fair<\/em> that I\u2019m supposed to be focused on the home while he gets to be a husband and a father. He gets to go out and have a fulfilling career while I\u2019m home, doing diapers. That\u2019s got to be something that was first century. That can\u2019t really apply to our day today.\u201d How does an older woman counsel a younger woman in that area?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Well, actually, there are plenty of Scriptures to men about their roles as husbands and fathers and the home as well. We\u2019re just focusing on this one passage, but I think it\u2019s so easy to put a kind of 20<sup>th<\/sup> century construct on this working at home thing. This is like Leave <em>It<\/em> <em>to<\/em> <em>Beaver<\/em> and the Cleavers\u2014that\u2019s maybe where our minds go when we hear that passage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve done a <em>lot<\/em> of study on this concept\u2014really wanting to grasp what, in first century, when Paul\u2019s writing this and the Holy Spirit is inspiring this: \u201cWhat did he mean?\u201d Well, first of all, you didn\u2019t have this division, where men go out to work\u2014one person goes out to work and one person stays at home. The homes were centers of productivity\u2014that\u2019s where a lot of work took place. Men and women worked <em>together<\/em>\u2014that\u2019s what you have in Proverbs 31. They\u2019re working <em>together<\/em> to meet the needs of their family\u2014it\u2019s: \u201cAll hands on deck.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think what Paul is saying to Titus is: \u201cTell the women\u2014with whatever the temptations, and opportunities, and allurements may be in this world\u2014not to forget the priority of their home.\u201d It doesn\u2019t mean they never leave their home. It doesn\u2019t mean they don\u2019t have any work anywhere else outside their home. He\u2019s talking to women in their childbearing years\u2014these younger women\u2014\u201cDon\u2019t fumble the ball. What you\u2019re doing at home <em>matters<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve come, in the last 100 years, since the Industrial Revolution, to devalue the work that\u2019s done in the home; because you don\u2019t get paid for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPaul is saying: \u201cIt all matters. What you\u2019re doing in those childbearing years, when you are changing diapers and providing for your family in these ways, this <em>matters<\/em>\u2014it is part of the gospel story you and your husband are telling together.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Barbara, you\u2019ve shared before about the decision you made, when you were in your childbearing years, to set aside some of what might have been passion points for you\u2014your artwork. You shelved that so that you could invest in marriage and in the kids. Were you ever resentful of the fact that: \u201cDennis gets to go out and speak, and he gets to write, and he gets to do all of this stuff,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m here, doing laundry and diapers,\u201d and \u201cThis just isn\u2019t fair\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Well, I was never resentful of him doing those things; because I had no desire to do those things in particular. I did struggle about my art and my being creative. It was such an encounter that I had with God, personally, because I was trying to raise kids and do some art. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen my kids would take their naps, I would get my stuff out and spread it out all over the kitchen table. I would just get started, and someone would wake up early or the nap would be over too soon\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And that\u2019s when the resentment could start.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> \u2014and that\u2019s when the resentment came in; yes\u2014because I resented my children more than I did my husband. Finally, one day, I just realized, \u201cYou know, this is a season, and God has given me these children, and this needs to be my priority.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had this little conversation with God and I said: \u201cLook, God, I don\u2019t know why You gave me a desire to create. I don\u2019t know why You made me somewhat artistic,\u201d\u2014I mean, it\u2019s a mustard seed; but it was there. I said: \u201cI don\u2019t know, but I know that You know what You\u2019re doing. I know that You\u2019ve given me these children and that You want <em>me<\/em> to be the primary one investing in their lives and not somebody else; because I know who You are, and I know that You are sovereign, and this is what You\u2019ve put in front of me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cYou\u2019ve granted me easy pregnancies and these kids, and You want me to invest in them. I\u2019m going to make a decision, because I know that is Your will for me\u2014to put my things away.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI literally put all my stuff in a box, closed it, wrote on the top \u201cPainting Supplies,\u201d taped it shut, walked to the closet, put it on the shelf; and I said to God\u2014out loud during one of the kids\u2019 naps\u2014I said: \u201cLord, I\u2019m giving this to You. If You want to give it back to me someday, it\u2019s Your business. I\u2019m not going to take it down until I know You want me to have it back, but it\u2019s Yours. If You gave me some talent and some interest in being creative and artistic\u2014and You don\u2019t want it to ever develop and you want it to lie fallow in the ground and not grow\u2014that\u2019s Your business; it\u2019s not mine.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI put it away, and I had such a peace that I was doing the right thing. I <em>really<\/em> thought I might not ever see it again. I really thought\u2014because, when I was having babies and I was so swamped with kids, it felt like <em>forever<\/em> until I would not have kids in the house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really invested my life in raising our children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, no; I never resented Dennis. Once I got passed that point of resenting my kids for interrupting <em>my<\/em> goals and <em>my<\/em> ambitions; and I set that aside and chose to do what God called me to do with my children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s important for us, as women, to remember that there are seasons of life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Barbara\u2019s in a different season now and doing a <em>great<\/em> work with her art without having regrets about having missed out on her children\u2019s lives; but also, there are no cookie cutter applications of these principles and these dreams. Every woman has to grapple with the Lord \/ with her own heart and say, \u201cWhat is the season?\u201d The world tells us: \u201cYou can do it all. You can have it all now,\u201d and that\u2019s not true. Something is going to get lost in the shuffle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBarbara made a choice there. Some women wouldn\u2019t have had that choice when it relates to working outside the home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have single moms that are listening and women whose\u2014their family\u2014it\u2019s a two-income culture today, and there are hard choices that have to be made. What I think Paul is saying is: \u201cMake sure that, in your choices, you\u2019re not neglecting this special never-to-be-repeated season to love your children and to make your home a priority for the <em>glory<\/em> of God\u2014not for a Pinterest<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> page, for crying out loud\u2014but for the glory of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> One thing we\u2019ve left out in this discussion\u2014that we really wanted to talk about\u2014but you cover this really well in your book. I want to encourage listeners to get a copy of <em>Adorned<\/em> by Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth\u2014it\u2019s the idea that older women are to be the ones to instruct, to teach, to model, to disciple younger women. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a generation of young women in the church today\u2014who are <em>desperate<\/em> for some mentors \/ for some ladies to step forward\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and to gather a bunch of them together and to talk about these issues, pragmatically, of how you struggled and how you hammered out life in your marriage in the childbearing years and in the different seasons, as Nancy was talking about. This is really, I think, a missing command of Scripture that is not really being paid enough attention to by the church. Nancy\u2019s really highlighting that in her book\u2014I just want to commend it to you\u2014and start some mentoring groups of older women, instructing younger women\u2014it can be one on one, or it can be one on ten, or one on one hundred.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> It doesn\u2019t have to be formal or official. It can just be a way of life as we\u2019re connecting with each other in the stream of everyday life\u2014just being attentive and alert to the older or younger women around us, who need relationship and to walk <em>together<\/em> in displaying the glory of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But it would be okay if some women wanted to, intentionally, get together and go through this book, chapter by chapter; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> That would be okay. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Or if they wanted to watch the videos\u2014you\u2019ve got videos that go along with this material. We\u2019ve got a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com where you can find out about the video series that Nancy has done around the new book, <em>Adorned: Living Out the Beauty of the Gospel Together<\/em>. And of course, we\u2019ve got the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order copies from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order\u20141-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website\u2014FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, the subject we\u2019ve talked about\u2014the priority of the home\u2014is what\u2019s at the heart of all we do, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Our mission is to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We want to help people grow in their relationship with God, their relationship with their spouse, their understanding of their roles and assignments in the family, and then their relationship with their children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re here to offer practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families. Of course, we do that, not just on this radio program, but through our website; the resources we create; events we host, like the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway \/ the upcoming <em>Blended &amp; Blessed<\/em>\u2122 one-day event that we\u2019re going to be hosting April 21<sup>st<\/sup> in Charlotte, North Carolina. And that\u2019s going to be livestreamed into churches and living rooms all across the country and around the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou make all of this possible when you help support what we\u2019re doing, here, at FamilyLife. If you\u2019re a long-time listener, we\u2019d love to have you be a part of the team that helps us reach more people more often through your financial support. You can donate easily online at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can donate by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. And you can mail your donation to us at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about what really happens in a family \/ in a home when mom and dad go through a divorce. What\u2019s the impact on a son or a daughter? Bill Butterworth and his son, Jesse, will be here with us to talk about what that experience was like for them. I hope you can tune in for that tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:31:24"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["28.75M"],"filesize_raw":["30143996"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-300153.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-300153.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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should a woman's attitude be toward her home? Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth and Barbara Rainey open the Scriptures to Titus 2 to see what Paul has to say about a woman's role in the home.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-02-21.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In Titus, Chapter 2, there are very specific instructions for what older women ought to be teaching younger women in the church. Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth says, at least, four of those instructions relate to how a woman ought to be functioning at home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And I think what Paul is saying to Titus is: \u201cTell the women\u2014with whatever the temptations, and opportunities, and allurements may be in this world\u2014not to forget the priority of their home.\u201d It doesn\u2019t mean they never leave their home. It doesn\u2019t mean they don\u2019t have any work anywhere else outside their home. \u201cWhat you\u2019re doing at home <em>matters<\/em>\u2014it is part of the gospel story you and your husband are telling together.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, February 21<sup>st<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. What are the instructions that older women are to share with younger women about how they function at home? We\u2019ll spend time looking at that today with our guest, Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. So we\u2019re going to go here. I mean, you\u2019re ready for letters\/emails coming in; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Absolutely! Bring them\u2014write us!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> [Laughter] Well, look at you! \u201cCome on!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Bring it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to step into an area that there\u2019s some passion \/ some controversy around.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There is. To help stir the controversy, we have brought two women into the studio. One has been my friend \/ my bride\u2014compadre in the mission of building marriages and families, here, at FamilyLife over the past 41 years\u2014and my bride of 45 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She\u2019s been your friend longer than that; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She has.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How long have you been friends?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> So it would be three years plus 45\u201448.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; not bad. I had never thought about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m going to ask Barbara to introduce our guest on the program today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Our guest on the program today is our friend, Nancy Wolgemuth. Thanks for joining us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And Nancy\u2019s just written a book called <em>Adorned: Living Out the Beauty of the Gospel Together<\/em>. We want to talk about older women mentoring younger women today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And nobody really wants to be called an older woman\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> \u2014except <em>me<\/em>. [Laughter] From the time I was a little girl, I had this goal in life to be a godly old lady.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you have any idea when you were a younger woman that being a godly older woman would mean that you would have to take some courageous countercultural stands and, with grace, speak the truth in love but say, \u201cYou know, this is not what the Bible teaches, even though it\u2019s what the culture is teaching\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Well, I probably did have a sense that following Christ would be countercultural from the time I was young. But what I\u2019ve learned and am learning is that God\u2019s ways are, not only true and right, but they\u2019re also <em>good<\/em> and beautiful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think if we just have a sourness to us\u2014or a rough edge or a <em>hard<\/em> edge\u2014when we say some of these hard, biblical truths\u2014like starting with: \u201cJesus is the <em>only<\/em> way to the Father,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s a hard truth that is countercultural in our world. And then, you get into what the Scripture teaches about biblical manhood\/womanhood, and marriage, and relationships\u2014the world looks at you like you got two heads: \u201cYou\u2019re crazy!\u201d But I think if we can be warm, and engaging, and say: \u201cLook, God has <em>our<\/em> best interests at heart. He is wise. He is <em>good<\/em>. When we glorify Him and when we <em>follow<\/em> His ways, we\u2019re going to be blessed,\u201d\u2014that, I think, is a helpful way to approach some of these countercultural principles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So when an older woman today reads, in Titus, Chapter 2, that older women are to train younger women to love their husbands, love their children, be workers at home, be kind and submissive to their own husbands, you can <em>feel<\/em> them kind of go: \u201cIn today\u2019s culture\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> That\u2019s fight\u2019n words.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI\u2019m supposed to say this to younger women? Younger women will just laugh me ought of the room and say, \u2018You don\u2019t know what you\u2019re talking about Grandma!\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> They will say that; but what we need to say is: \u201cLook, this is not just for its own sake. This is not in a vacuumless teaching. This is how we show people what the gospel looks like.\u201d In fact, you didn\u2019t read the end of that\u2014verse 5, which says, \u201c\u2026in order that the Word of God may not be reviled.\u201d If we don\u2019t live out these principles\u2014why God made man, and women, and marriage, and family\u2014then the world is going to look at us, and we\u2019re going to make God look bad. We\u2019re going to make the gospel be <em>blasphemed<\/em>\u2014is actually the word there\u2014it\u2019s a really strong word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want my life to show people that God\u2019s ways and His Word are good, and right, and true. We do that by embracing God\u2019s plan, God\u2019s ways, and God\u2019s order for our lives and our families.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Earlier, Barbara talked about how Elisabeth Elliott had made a great impact in her life. I think about what she said about conforming to the culture and conforming to the world\u2019s ways. She basically said: \u201cIf what you\u2019re hearing from the world is easy and it appeals to the flesh and to pride\u2014it really speaks against what the Scripture teaches\u2014then you can pretty much count on it being from the world and a lie. It\u2019s not the truth.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNot everybody\u2019s going to agree on what the Scriptures teach, but there are assignments that God has for older women, with younger women, and specific teachings that they are to give the younger women. Let\u2019s just take some of these, Nancy. Pick the ones out of here that you think are most countercultural today, and the ones that you think older women need to be teaching younger women; and coach them in how to do this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Well, there\u2019s a curriculum here; and it\u2019s interesting to see what\u2019s <em>not<\/em> in this curriculum. It doesn\u2019t say anything about teaching them how to study the Bible, or how to pray, or how to evangelize\u2014all of which are important. But when he just limits it to these seven qualities that older women are to teach younger women, they have more to do with heart attitudes and the home. Isn\u2019t that interesting? At least four of them\u2014loving husbands, loving children, working at home, [and] submissive to their own husbands\u2014have to do with our <em>family<\/em> relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, he\u2019s not saying that is <em>all<\/em> there is; but he\u2019s saying: \u201cYou can\u2019t go out, as a woman, and go to Bible class, and be in small group, and sing on the worship team at church, and act like you love Jesus but things are <em>busted<\/em> at home. You\u2019re not prioritizing what\u2019s important to God.\u201d It\u2019s important to God, because it <em>relates<\/em> to the gospel. God is a <em>home-maker<\/em>\u2014He sets the lonely in families \/ He invites us to come to His home.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus is a <em>home-maker<\/em>\u2014He says, \u201cI am going to prepare a <em>home<\/em> for you.\u201d When <em>we<\/em> develop homes that honor Christ \/ that show the beauty of Christ, we\u2019re pointing people to the gospel. God is saying: \u201cThis matters. This is important. This is not a secondary issue.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, since Barbara\u2019s here, I just thought it\u2019d be a great question to ask her. As I look at that list, is it difficult for you to submit to me, as your husband and as the leader of our family?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Well, I can\u2019t say, like Elisabeth Elliott did: \u201c\u2026every minute of every day\u201d; right?\u2014isn\u2019t that what she said when you asked her that question?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; she said, \u201cWith every fiber of my being, I resist submitting to my husband.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> However, I will say, \u201cYes; there are times when it\u2019s hard for me to follow, because I want to do what I want to do.\u201d I think that\u2019s true for all of us in following Christ. We want to do what we want to do. We don\u2019t want to do what God wants us to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s even [truer] for women, because we have been instructed to follow our husbands. Lots of times that means I deny myself what I want to do and I follow your leadership.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; hey now\u2014because I\u2019m imagining a listener goes: \u201cThis is just not right! When it comes to the direction we go, as a family, how come he gets to pick and I\u2019m just supposed to go, \u2018Okay; if that\u2019s what you think, Sweetheart.\u2019\u201d Nancy, is that what this means?\u2014\u201csubmit to your husband.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> No; it\u2019s not. Let me just say one other thorny thing about this\u2014that some listeners are <em>thinking<\/em> because of experiences they\u2019ve had. When you talk about <em>submission<\/em> today, it sounds, to modern ears, like that\u2019s tantamount to promoting abuse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And there are women\u2014many of them \/ some listening right now\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right\u2014who are abused.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> \u2014have been abused by dads, by husbands, by men. They\u2019re going: \u201cYou\u2019re telling my husband he can tell me what to do, and I have to do everything. I\u2019m going to be bruised and black and blue over this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Some men have pulled verses like this\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Yes; they have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and used it as a justification for their abuse. That\u2019s a\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And actually, <em>never<\/em> in Scripture does God tell husbands to make their wives submit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> The submission is something that the <em>wife<\/em> is challenged to do as a voluntary choice\u2014as the church surrenders and submits to <em>Christ<\/em> as our head, and our king, and our <em>lover<\/em>, and our Lord. We are to reflect, in our marriages, that relationship between Christ and His church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You haven\u2019t seen this; but your husband Robert was out in the control room for a few moments, and he just stepped away. I\u2019m glad he came back in; because I wanted to ask you, \u201cDo you struggle with submitting to Robert?\u201d I know he\u2019s the <em>perfect<\/em> leader. [Laughter] He\u2019s written books on shepherding your wife.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Listen, you went 57 years without having to pay attention to <em>any<\/em> of these verses.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. Marriage has been a glorious, wonderful, <em>great<\/em> adjustment. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to say I am <em>hugely<\/em> blessed to be married to a man who loves Christ, loves me with all his heart, and is earnestly \/ always seeking to have us follow the Lord together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Okay; that\u2019s all good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> So, I\u2019m blessed on that; but yes\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I know. Give us an illustration when you really wanted to dig your heels in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s just say\u2014when we got married, through a whole series of circumstances and conversations, we ended up moving into what had been my home, as a single woman, for about 25 years. We agreed at\u2014we just felt like the Lord was leading this way. I was <em>very<\/em> happy\u2014I am <em>thrilled<\/em> to have him in what is now <em>our<\/em> home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut Robert is a builder. He looked at these closets that were so, in his view, disorganized and\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He is grinning right now\u2014big.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> \u2014and he envisioned shelves, and order, and cubby holes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Robert, would you come to my house?\u2014would you come to our house?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Please!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I need you for a <em>week<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> A lot of women would like this, and I love it <em>now<\/em>. But submission is not so much what happens in an individual moment or decision, but it\u2019s an <em>inclination<\/em> to follow leadership \/ to be led. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy husband also understands how important it is to love me well\u2014to be sensitive to what my needs are \/ to listen\u2014he asks my counsel, my opinion, [and] my positions on things. He said to me, early on\u2014and I say this because I think it would bless so many other wives if other men would say this to their wives\u2014he said, \u201cI don\u2019t want you ever to be afraid to say anything that\u2019s on your heart.\u201d That gave me freedom \/ that opened the door\u2014I knew my opinion was valued. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut when it came down to it, those closets got built in; but a wife\u2019s submission to her husband is her <em>greatest<\/em> expression of how much she trusts <em>God<\/em> to rule over both of their lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; if a wife says, \u201cI\u2019m not going to trust him unless I can know he\u2019s always going to make the right decision,\u201d well that\u2019s not going to happen. Russell Moore has said: \u201cIf you\u2019re agreeing with your husband, that\u2019s not submission\u2014that\u2019s agreement. Submission doesn\u2019t start until you disagree. It\u2019s when you disagree that you go, \u2018Now what am I going to do?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And I want to say\u2014this submission issue for us\u2014this might not be true for others; but for us, it\u2019s not like an every day issue. We talk through things \/ we pray through things. We, 90-some percent of the time, come to agreement; and one of us defers to the other. These are not matters of right and wrong \/ they\u2019re not matters of sinfulness. We\u2019re doing life together\u2014we\u2019re \u201cheirs together of the grace of life,\u201d Peter says. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, there are moments, where Robert is saying\u2014one of the first illustrations of this came \/ of this disposition to be leadable came, actually, before we were married. I wasn\u2019t his wife\u2014I didn\u2019t have to be submissive; but I was driving home from an event, where I had been speaking. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were talking on the phone. He was in another state; and he said to me: \u201cI just wish you could get on the road sooner so that it is not going to be such a late evening for you. I know it\u2019s been a long day.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, my initial reaction could have been: \u201cWho put you in charge here?! I\u2019m a grown up. I\u2019ve decided all these years what time I leave and what time I drive home.\u201d But by God\u2019s grace, as I was falling in love with this man\u2014this was very early on in our relationship\u2014but God just gave the grace to say: \u201cThank you for that input. Thank you for caring, and I\u2019m going to do that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, in that moment, I wasn\u2019t his wife. I didn\u2019t <em>have<\/em> to do that; but it set a path \/ it set a track that: \u201cI\u2019m going to <em>thank<\/em> God for putting this man in my life, who cares enough to protect, to provide, to lead. And I\u2019m going to have a disposition that is bent toward accommodating and agreeing.\u201d That\u2019s made our marriage a lot smoother than I think it would be otherwise.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I have to ask you before we run out of time\u2014\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014there\u2019s another phrase in Titus 2 that is one of those countercultural phrases. I hear women, who say: \u201cHow come it says women are to be lovers of their husbands, lovers of their children, workers at home; and there\u2019s not \u2018Men are to be lovers of their wives, lovers of their children, and workers at home\u2019? This just does not sound <em>fair<\/em> that I\u2019m supposed to be focused on the home while he gets to be a husband and a father. He gets to go out and have a fulfilling career while I\u2019m home, doing diapers. That\u2019s got to be something that was first century. That can\u2019t really apply to our day today.\u201d How does an older woman counsel a younger woman in that area?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Well, actually, there are plenty of Scriptures to men about their roles as husbands and fathers and the home as well. We\u2019re just focusing on this one passage, but I think it\u2019s so easy to put a kind of 20<sup>th<\/sup> century construct on this working at home thing. This is like Leave <em>It<\/em> <em>to<\/em> <em>Beaver<\/em> and the Cleavers\u2014that\u2019s maybe where our minds go when we hear that passage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve done a <em>lot<\/em> of study on this concept\u2014really wanting to grasp what, in first century, when Paul\u2019s writing this and the Holy Spirit is inspiring this: \u201cWhat did he mean?\u201d Well, first of all, you didn\u2019t have this division, where men go out to work\u2014one person goes out to work and one person stays at home. The homes were centers of productivity\u2014that\u2019s where a lot of work took place. Men and women worked <em>together<\/em>\u2014that\u2019s what you have in Proverbs 31. They\u2019re working <em>together<\/em> to meet the needs of their family\u2014it\u2019s: \u201cAll hands on deck.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think what Paul is saying to Titus is: \u201cTell the women\u2014with whatever the temptations, and opportunities, and allurements may be in this world\u2014not to forget the priority of their home.\u201d It doesn\u2019t mean they never leave their home. It doesn\u2019t mean they don\u2019t have any work anywhere else outside their home. He\u2019s talking to women in their childbearing years\u2014these younger women\u2014\u201cDon\u2019t fumble the ball. What you\u2019re doing at home <em>matters<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve come, in the last 100 years, since the Industrial Revolution, to devalue the work that\u2019s done in the home; because you don\u2019t get paid for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPaul is saying: \u201cIt all matters. What you\u2019re doing in those childbearing years, when you are changing diapers and providing for your family in these ways, this <em>matters<\/em>\u2014it is part of the gospel story you and your husband are telling together.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Barbara, you\u2019ve shared before about the decision you made, when you were in your childbearing years, to set aside some of what might have been passion points for you\u2014your artwork. You shelved that so that you could invest in marriage and in the kids. Were you ever resentful of the fact that: \u201cDennis gets to go out and speak, and he gets to write, and he gets to do all of this stuff,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m here, doing laundry and diapers,\u201d and \u201cThis just isn\u2019t fair\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Well, I was never resentful of him doing those things; because I had no desire to do those things in particular. I did struggle about my art and my being creative. It was such an encounter that I had with God, personally, because I was trying to raise kids and do some art. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen my kids would take their naps, I would get my stuff out and spread it out all over the kitchen table. I would just get started, and someone would wake up early or the nap would be over too soon\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And that\u2019s when the resentment could start.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> \u2014and that\u2019s when the resentment came in; yes\u2014because I resented my children more than I did my husband. Finally, one day, I just realized, \u201cYou know, this is a season, and God has given me these children, and this needs to be my priority.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had this little conversation with God and I said: \u201cLook, God, I don\u2019t know why You gave me a desire to create. I don\u2019t know why You made me somewhat artistic,\u201d\u2014I mean, it\u2019s a mustard seed; but it was there. I said: \u201cI don\u2019t know, but I know that You know what You\u2019re doing. I know that You\u2019ve given me these children and that You want <em>me<\/em> to be the primary one investing in their lives and not somebody else; because I know who You are, and I know that You are sovereign, and this is what You\u2019ve put in front of me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cYou\u2019ve granted me easy pregnancies and these kids, and You want me to invest in them. I\u2019m going to make a decision, because I know that is Your will for me\u2014to put my things away.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI literally put all my stuff in a box, closed it, wrote on the top \u201cPainting Supplies,\u201d taped it shut, walked to the closet, put it on the shelf; and I said to God\u2014out loud during one of the kids\u2019 naps\u2014I said: \u201cLord, I\u2019m giving this to You. If You want to give it back to me someday, it\u2019s Your business. I\u2019m not going to take it down until I know You want me to have it back, but it\u2019s Yours. If You gave me some talent and some interest in being creative and artistic\u2014and You don\u2019t want it to ever develop and you want it to lie fallow in the ground and not grow\u2014that\u2019s Your business; it\u2019s not mine.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI put it away, and I had such a peace that I was doing the right thing. I <em>really<\/em> thought I might not ever see it again. I really thought\u2014because, when I was having babies and I was so swamped with kids, it felt like <em>forever<\/em> until I would not have kids in the house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really invested my life in raising our children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, no; I never resented Dennis. Once I got passed that point of resenting my kids for interrupting <em>my<\/em> goals and <em>my<\/em> ambitions; and I set that aside and chose to do what God called me to do with my children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s important for us, as women, to remember that there are seasons of life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Barbara\u2019s in a different season now and doing a <em>great<\/em> work with her art without having regrets about having missed out on her children\u2019s lives; but also, there are no cookie cutter applications of these principles and these dreams. Every woman has to grapple with the Lord \/ with her own heart and say, \u201cWhat is the season?\u201d The world tells us: \u201cYou can do it all. You can have it all now,\u201d and that\u2019s not true. Something is going to get lost in the shuffle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBarbara made a choice there. Some women wouldn\u2019t have had that choice when it relates to working outside the home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have single moms that are listening and women whose\u2014their family\u2014it\u2019s a two-income culture today, and there are hard choices that have to be made. What I think Paul is saying is: \u201cMake sure that, in your choices, you\u2019re not neglecting this special never-to-be-repeated season to love your children and to make your home a priority for the <em>glory<\/em> of God\u2014not for a Pinterest<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> page, for crying out loud\u2014but for the glory of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> One thing we\u2019ve left out in this discussion\u2014that we really wanted to talk about\u2014but you cover this really well in your book. I want to encourage listeners to get a copy of <em>Adorned<\/em> by Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth\u2014it\u2019s the idea that older women are to be the ones to instruct, to teach, to model, to disciple younger women. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a generation of young women in the church today\u2014who are <em>desperate<\/em> for some mentors \/ for some ladies to step forward\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and to gather a bunch of them together and to talk about these issues, pragmatically, of how you struggled and how you hammered out life in your marriage in the childbearing years and in the different seasons, as Nancy was talking about. This is really, I think, a missing command of Scripture that is not really being paid enough attention to by the church. Nancy\u2019s really highlighting that in her book\u2014I just want to commend it to you\u2014and start some mentoring groups of older women, instructing younger women\u2014it can be one on one, or it can be one on ten, or one on one hundred.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> It doesn\u2019t have to be formal or official. It can just be a way of life as we\u2019re connecting with each other in the stream of everyday life\u2014just being attentive and alert to the older or younger women around us, who need relationship and to walk <em>together<\/em> in displaying the glory of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But it would be okay if some women wanted to, intentionally, get together and go through this book, chapter by chapter; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> That would be okay. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Or if they wanted to watch the videos\u2014you\u2019ve got videos that go along with this material. We\u2019ve got a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com where you can find out about the video series that Nancy has done around the new book, <em>Adorned: Living Out the Beauty of the Gospel Together<\/em>. And of course, we\u2019ve got the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order copies from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order\u20141-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website\u2014FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, the subject we\u2019ve talked about\u2014the priority of the home\u2014is what\u2019s at the heart of all we do, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Our mission is to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We want to help people grow in their relationship with God, their relationship with their spouse, their understanding of their roles and assignments in the family, and then their relationship with their children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re here to offer practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families. Of course, we do that, not just on this radio program, but through our website; the resources we create; events we host, like the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway \/ the upcoming <em>Blended &amp; Blessed<\/em>\u2122 one-day event that we\u2019re going to be hosting April 21<sup>st<\/sup> in Charlotte, North Carolina. And that\u2019s going to be livestreamed into churches and living rooms all across the country and around the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou make all of this possible when you help support what we\u2019re doing, here, at FamilyLife. If you\u2019re a long-time listener, we\u2019d love to have you be a part of the team that helps us reach more people more often through your financial support. You can donate easily online at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can donate by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. And you can mail your donation to us at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about what really happens in a family \/ in a home when mom and dad go through a divorce. What\u2019s the impact on a son or a daughter? Bill Butterworth and his son, Jesse, will be here with us to talk about what that experience was like for them. I hope you can tune in for that tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300153","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300153"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300153"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300153"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300153"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300153"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300153"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300153"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}