{"id":300127,"date":"2018-01-23T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-01-23T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/marriage-for-gods-glory\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:19","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:19","slug":"marriage-for-gods-glory","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/marriage-for-gods-glory\/","title":{"rendered":"Marriage For God&#8217;s Glory"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Francis Chan, Lisa Chan | Series: You and Me Forever | What are you praying for your marriage? Francis and Lisa Chan, married for over two decades and parents of seven children, encourage husbands and wives to fervently pray for one another and seek a marriage that is glorifying to the Lord.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Francis and Lisa Chan, married for over two decades and parents of seven children, encourage husbands and wives to fervently pray for one another and seek a marriage that is glorifying to the Lord.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-01-23.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:34","filesize":"25.24M","filesize_raw":"26462239","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822,2810],"tags":[4200,2877,4201,4202,4203,2210],"podcast_series":[7187],"cwp_profile":[8813,8814],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300127","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-growing-spiritually","tag-glorifying-god","tag-marriage","tag-marriage-is-worship","tag-pray-for-your-children","tag-pray-for-your-spouse","tag-prayer","podcast_series-you-and-me-forever","cwp_profile-francis-chan","cwp_profile-lisa-chan","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300127\/marriage-for-gods-glory","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300127\/marriage-for-gods-glory","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"poAbhS5ojy\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/marriage-for-gods-glory\/\">Marriage For God&#8217;s Glory<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/marriage-for-gods-glory\/embed\/#?secret=poAbhS5ojy\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Marriage For God&#8217;s Glory&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"poAbhS5ojy\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-01-23.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-01-23.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It was after a trip to Africa that Francis Chan came back to his home in the United States and told his wife he thought God wanted their family to downsize. Lisa wasn\u2019t so sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>I didn\u2019t want to give up my things. I didn\u2019t want to move into a smaller home. It was like this ripping that was happening. Of course, because God is so faithful\u2014and every time, He says, \u201cIf you lose your life for My sake, you will find it,\u201d\u2014on the flip side is when I got to see the <em>joy<\/em> of it and, eventually, got to go to Africa with Francis. I was just brokenhearted at my own resistance and sinfulness because I <em>wished<\/em> I could have had those feelings [of joy] on the outset. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, January 23<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLisa Chan says that God\u2019s Word is true when it says, \u201cWhoever loses his life for My sake will find it.\u201d That\u2019s true, even in marriage. We\u2019ll talk more about that today with Francis and Lisa Chan. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition. We\u2019ve been hearing, both last week and again this week, from a lot of our listeners who are getting in touch with us about the special offer that expires this week on our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways. For those of you who are new listeners to <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>the<em> Weekend to Remember <\/em>is the two-and-a-half-day getaway we do for couples in cities all across the country. It\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> romantic time away together, where you learn what the Bible teaches about God\u2019s design for marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you sign up for one of these getaways before the end of the week, you will save \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t50 percent off the regular registration fee as a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are encouraging you to get more information\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014find out when a getaway is going to be in a city near where you live and then block out that weekend, and call and register now to save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. The number to call is 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can also register online at FamilyLifeToday.com. I know some of these getaways are starting to get close to selling out, so don\u2019t hesitate. Join us at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaway, and register this week to save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I\u2019ve got to be honest\u2014I\u2019m not sure I want to talk to the couple we have joining us today, because they just shared with us they\u2019ve had like 12 fights in the past 21 years. I\u2019m kind of like, \u201cBring me some couples I can relate to a little more\u201d; you know? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I was thinking: \u201cWe\u2019ve been married double that. We\u2019ve got more than 24, though,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014doubling your dozen that you\u2019ve had. Francis and Lisa Chan join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They\u2019ve written a book called <em>You and Me Forever<\/em>. In case there is <em>a<\/em> listener who doesn\u2019t know who this couple is\u2014they live in the Bay Area of Northern California. They are about church planting there\u2014also, ministering to men \/ I assume it\u2019s only men coming out of prison. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Yes; we\u2019ve been trying to start a women\u2019s home as well. So, right now, it\u2019s just the guys coming out of prison. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to go to something you mention in your book. You made this statement\u2014you said, \u201cIf you could manuscript your prayers of what you\u2019ve prayed about for the last month, what would they reveal about you, as a couple?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>So, it\u2019s like what David says in Psalm 27, verse 4, when he says, \u201cThis one thing I ask of the Lord and that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and to inquire in His temple.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was his one prayer request: \u201cGod, I want You\u2014I want You. I want to see You. I want to be with You.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the question is: \u201cGive me a manuscript of your prayers for the last month. I want to <em>hear<\/em>: \u2018What do you hunger for? What do you want?\u2019 You\u2019re coming before the Creator, the Sovereign One, who is in control of this <em>whole<\/em> <em>earth<\/em>; and what are you asking for?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And most of us are asking for: \u201cFix this,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cMake life easier or better\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cfor me\u201d; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Amen! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if that\u2019s\u2014I mean, is it illegitimate for us to pray\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cI\u2019d like things to go better in my life\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>No; you know, it\u2019s\u2014the Lord tells us to bring what we desire before Him; but also, the things that we desire reveal a lot about us; you know?\u00a0 It opens our eyes to: \u201cWow! That\u2019s what I\u2019m about?\u2014is: \u2018Get rid of all my problems,\u2019\u201d\u2014because I don\u2019t see that in Scripture. It\u2019s more about, \u201cGod, give me the <em>strength<\/em> to make it through this\u2014develop my <em>character<\/em> through these trials.\u201d\u00a0 You know, that\u2019s what I see in Scripture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>How much of my prayers do I pray <em>for<\/em> Francis?\u00a0 Do I pray <em>for<\/em> his walk with God?\u00a0 Do I pray that God would help in his moments of temptation?\u00a0 I mean, that\u2019s something that has developed in <em>my<\/em> life that softens my heart towards him\u2014helps me to love him better. I want to be praying for him because who else is going to pray for him the way that I will?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>One of the things that I try to do, when I pray over my meal at lunch\u2014I don\u2019t do it every time\u2014but I try to pray for my wife Barbara and her walk\u2014that she\u2019ll see God show up in her life, and she\u2019ll respond to Him, and she will grow in her faith. Then, if I\u2019m having lunch with another guy, pray for his wife as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t think a lot of us are challenging one another with that concept, Francis\u2014that you speak of in your book\u2014of really making sure your prayers are about the agenda of what God\u2019s up to; because He is at work in your spouse\u2019s life, in your children, and in your extended family as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>I just recently started running; you know?\u00a0 I was getting out of shape; and so, I\u2019ve been running around this track at my daughter\u2019s school. Every lap, I\u2019ll pray for a different kid. So, it\u2019s nice to have seven kids and a wife. [Laughter] It\u2019s, at least, two miles a day that I\u2019m running, which is good. As I\u2019m praying, the prayers aren\u2019t: \u201cOh, help us get along better,\u201d or \u201cHelp this,\u201d \u201cHelp that.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s like: \u201cGod, make my wife just this amazing warrior for you. Give her even greater love \/ greater capacity.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHelp my daughter, as she\u2019s in this school right now, to take a stand for you. It\u2019s about Your kingdom.\u201d \u201cUse them to influence other people\u2014my kids in grade school \/ my kid in Little League\u2014have him influence this team.\u201d It\u2019s about God: \u201cYour kingdom\u2014Your kingdom come.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Lisa, tell the truth. When he starts praying like that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Does it scare me?\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014do you get scared?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>No; you know, my immediate thought was: \u201cI\u2019m so glad he\u2019s praying for me! I need it.\u201d\u00a0 That is, honestly, my first thought. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I want to go back\u2014because you said your dad said, \u201cNo,\u201d the first two times to Francis\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>They are going to feel so bad about that. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But, as a daddy, I understand wanting to protect\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, yes!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014my daughter\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Absolutely! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and along comes Francis, who\u2014as you said\u2014they weren\u2019t sure if he was crazy about God or just crazy. And your journey together has been a journey of <em>risk<\/em> and a journey of faith; that, honestly, I can understand a daddy going, \u201cThis may be more risk than I raised my little girl for.\u201d Do you know what I\u2019m talking about?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Yes; and I\u2019ve seen that tension in them. There have been times when I\u2019ve just had to cry and be honest with them, like, \u201cI need you to support me and say, \u2018You are never going to regret surrendering to God and giving things up.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s hard when you have that parent\u2019s heart that <em>immediately<\/em> wants to protect. I have it, too, with all of my kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I do get it in a different way now; but how much I want to <em>encourage<\/em> parents to be that voice of <em>courage<\/em> for their kids\u2014married or not; married 20 years \/ 30 years\u2014still be that voice that says: \u201cHoney, go for it! Don\u2019t look back. Surrender it all to God, because He\u2019s got you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But there have to have been times when crazy Francis came to you and said, \u201cI think the Lord is saying this,\u201d and your immediate answer wasn\u2019t, \u201cYes, let\u2019s go for that,\u201d\u2014 where you had to kind of go: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cReally?\u00a0 There is a cost here.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>One of the hardest\u2014the first most difficult was when he had come back from Africa. I had not been with him on that trip. God <em>completely<\/em> wrecked him. He wanted to sell our home and cut our house size from 2,000 square foot to 1,000 square foot\u2014it was, literally, right in half. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had two kids. We had a couple of people living with us\u2014we always have\u2014but he wanted to move. He was like: \u201cI can\u2019t do this anymore. I need to give something up in order to love these kids that I saw.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was love-motivated, which was so awesome; but I was so honest with him\u2014I said, \u201cI wasn\u2019t with you. I don\u2019t feel love in my heart; I feel more like, this is going to stink!\u201d [Laughter] No; I mean, I\u2019m just being honest. I didn\u2019t want to give up my things. I didn\u2019t want to move into a smaller home. It was like this ripping that was happening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, because God is so faithful\u2014and every time He says, \u201cIf you lose your life for My sake, you will find it,\u201d\u2014on the flip side is when I got to see the <em>joy<\/em> of it and eventually got to go to Africa with Francis. I was just brokenhearted at my own resistance and sinfulness because I <em>wished<\/em> I could have had those feelings [of joy] on the outset. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your immediate reaction was, \u201cI don\u2019t know.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>It was: \u201cI don\u2019t want to, but I will do what is in your heart. I will <em>not<\/em> stand in the way of what you want to do.\u201d\u00a0 And so\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And were you still\u2014on the day you were moving into a 1,000 square-foot house, were you going: \u201cI don\u2019t want to do this,\u201d or had\u2014by that time, had you started to go, \u201cOkay; I guess this is going to be okay,\u201d or what?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Or did you negotiate a 1,500 square-foot home?\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>No, it was 1,000; and it was hard. I think the initial reaction was the hardest. Then, it was, \u201cSwallow it.\u201d\u00a0 Then, it was, \u201cThis is going to be fine.\u201d\u00a0 Then, it was: \u201cWhy am I so stupid?\u00a0 This has been the best thing.\u201d\u00a0 It was one of our <em>favorite<\/em> homes. We had the best neighbors that we reached out to and just loved. It was the tiniest, little thing. We had six of us, eventually, there. We had two more kids there; and then, we had two girls living with us. We moved up to eight living in that little, tiny house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Francis, if I\u2019ve learned anything in the years I\u2019ve been married, in order for our wives to have that kind of response, you have to have loved her with a love that results in respect and the ability to trust\u2014when her heart isn\u2019t quite yet in it\u2014but she knows she\u2019s got to go with you because she\u2019s committed to you <em>and<\/em> she\u2019s committed to the mission. Talk about your love for Lisa and how you have built that kind of trust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>I think, not to over-spiritualize it, but I do really believe that one of the things I\u2019ve been able to help Lisa with is to trust in the Lord. So, when it came to a bigger decision\u2014like the house\u2014she had seen God\u2019s faithfulness in the past, and I think that\u2019s where the trust was. She was trusting that I was following the Lord and that the Lord was going to bless our steps, as long as we just keep going, and even sacrificing\/denying ourselves during those times we didn\u2019t feel like it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the same time, we had been around the world. They would find us, even right now, having this conversation\u2014about a 1,000 square-foot home, with toilets and air-conditioning\u2014just absolutely laughable! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014that that\u2019s a sacrifice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Exactly!\u2014because this is their <em>dream<\/em> house. So, I don\u2019t want to sit here and go, \u201cOh, you guys, we really suffered.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s like: \u201cMan, that\u2019s <em>luxury<\/em>. We\u2019re living in America.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>That\u2019s why it wasn\u2019t until <em>after<\/em> I had been <em>with<\/em> him into some of those areas of extreme poverty that I did feel so stupid for complaining and thinking that I was sacrificing so much. I said, \u201cOh, I would have sacrificed more.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cWe could live in a tent,\u201d\u2014although that would probably be really hard\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You kind of looked at him\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cDon\u2019t plant any ideas!\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s what she was thinking\u2014she was going: \u201cOh, no! We\u2019re going to downsize from 1,000 square feet.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>And that\u2019s crossed my mind\u2014that\u2019s happened\u2014the tent. Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Francis, let\u2019s talk about how you are the spiritual lover and leader of Lisa and your family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve got a lot going on in your life out there: \u201cHow do you love Lisa? How do you provide the kind of mandate that Ephesians 5 talks about\u2014\u2018Husbands, love you wives as Christ loved the church\u2019?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>It\u2019s something the Lord put <em>in<\/em> me. It\u2019s <em>weird<\/em> because I didn\u2019t really have that, growing up; and yet, it\u2019s so natural to me. It\u2019s not like I have to force myself to love my kids, and to enjoy them, or force myself to spend time with Lisa. I am gone a lot, but all the kids know I <em>want<\/em> to be at home with them. A lot of times, I will take them with me on some of my speaking engagements\u2014I\u2019ll take one kid at a time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I do serve kids\u2014you know, my kids\u2014 through relationship, through just laughing with them, and teaching them, and disciplining them, and getting the time with them. A lot of times, we\u2019re just in ministry together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Lisa, we\u2019ll let you answer the question too: \u201cHow does he love you?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Well,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And again\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>\u2014practically speaking,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014not in an idealistic way\u2014yes; in a practical way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Yes; one of the nicest things\u2014that every mother will appreciate\u2014is those nights, when he\u2019ll see that I have been in the home \/ I have had the little people all over me\u2014and the big ones, sometimes, that have the emotional needs that go far beyond your little ones\u2014and he\u2019ll just say: \u201cHoney, I got this. You just go to Target\u2014[Laughter]\u2014just walk around Target, aimlessly, with a Diet Coke in your hand.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is such a blessing. He <em>knows<\/em> when I need a little moment to myself; and he knows those times when he\u2019ll say: \u201cHey, we\u2019ve got our high schoolers still at home. They are going to watch the little ones. You and I are going to go grab dessert really quick.\u201d\u00a0 That is how he shows love\u2014it is to sneak a little time away \/ grab some dessert or just to let me go have a moment to myself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As I hear you guys describe your marriage and how this works out for you, I hear a strong sense of mutuality; but I also hear there\u2019s leadership, and there\u2019s responding to leadership. You know, there is tension, even among Christians today, about: \u201cWhat\u2019s this supposed to look like? How are we supposed to do this? Is the man supposed to lead? Is the wife supposed to submit?\u201d\u00a0 Unpack how you think that\u2019s supposed to work and why we are confused about it today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>I think we\u2019re confused about it because we\u2019ve rarely seen a good picture of it. We live in a culture that\u2019s very anti-authority\u2014because when have you found godly <em>serving<\/em> authority; okay?\u00a0 Yet, that\u2019s a picture of God. It gets to the point where we even question God\u2019s authority, like, \u201cHe has <em>no<\/em> <em>right<\/em> to give me these rules.\u201d\u00a0 We forget that, no, those rules were to protect you \/ they were to give you <em>life<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe is a <em>wonderful<\/em> authority!\u00a0 I mean, that\u2019s the whole rebellion of Adam and Eve. It\u2019s like: \u201cWell, did He really say?\u00a0 That sure does look good.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s like: \u201cNo! You\u2019re going to ruin everything!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAuthority can be beautiful. Jesus, who <em>knew<\/em> who He was\u2014He understood He was the Lord\u2014yet, He goes and He washes the disciples\u2019 feet\u2014He <em>dies<\/em> on the cross for them. That\u2019s our picture of authority. That\u2019s what the head of the home is supposed to <em>do<\/em>. If you had that, then, I believe you would see a lot more women, going: \u201cOkay; I see that. I see how it can be good to be under their authority.\u201d\u00a0 So, I see, in Scripture\u2014it is pretty clear to me that the man is supposed to be the head of the home, but he\u2019s supposed to lead in a way that\u2019s like a servant that is Christ-like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When a man serves, denies himself, loves, leads, and really takes care of his wife, it makes <em>her<\/em> responsibility and her response reasonable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Lisa, in the book, I so enjoy what you write on Page 88 because you talk about five reasons why\u2014what has become a very nasty word in our culture \/ a politically-incorrect word\u2014the word, \u201csubmission,\u201d\u2014but it\u2019s a biblical term. You talk about why we should do that. I want you to share that with our listeners, because there is probably a listener or two who is losing heart in well-doing and needs to be reminded why it\u2019s so important. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>You know, it was hard when we were writing the book; because we could write a whole giant book about submission and authority\u2014right?\u2014and leadership, but we didn\u2019t want <em>that<\/em> to be the focus of the book. But it is important to understand, for a woman\u2014especially because so many women will say: \u201cMy husband doesn\u2019t <em>deserve<\/em> to be submitted to. He is <em>not<\/em> a good leader. He is <em>not<\/em> following the Lord.\u201d We\u2019re not submitting to our husband\u2019s perfection and the fact that they deserve it. We\u2019re submitting to the fact that God has given them that position of authority. We\u2019re submitting to a God-given position and not perfection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere were times, even in the beginning, when Francis was not kind and nice about his authority and leadership; but I am still responsible, before God, to say: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 He has given him this position.\u201d\u00a0 You can\u2019t get around it through Scripture. It\u2019s not one place that says, \u201cWives, submit to your husbands,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s a <em>few<\/em> times\u2014look it up in your concordance. We can\u2019t be so afraid of obeying the Lord\u2014there is <em>freedom<\/em> in it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe second thing is\u2014only our submission to God should be absolute. We don\u2019t submit to our husbands if they ask us to sin, obviously. There is a <em>limit<\/em>, in that sense. We are <em>all<\/em> under the umbrella of God\u2019s authority. So, if our husband steps outside of that, then we are not to join him in that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You don\u2019t follow him\u2014you don\u2019t follow him there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Right. I think one of the most important things we have to realize is that we find ourselves thinking that we\u2019re fighting against our husbands; but ultimately, we\u2019re fighting against God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is <em>not<\/em> something we want to do\u2014the Scripture says that God <em>opposes<\/em> the proud, but He gives grace to the humble. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt takes humility to follow someone\u2019s lead; but, you know, you look back at the very beginning\u2014God said: \u201cIt\u2019s not good for the man to be alone. I am going to create a helpmate for him.\u201d\u00a0 Why can\u2019t we embrace the <em>beauty<\/em> of that and say: \u201cWow! I want to give my husband the benefit of my wisdom \/ my insight\u201d? Then, after I\u2019ve laid that all down\u2014and I\u2019ve shown him \/ I\u2019ve shared my thoughts and my heart\u2014to allow him to lead \/ to make the ultimate decision, knowing that I\u2019ve poured my heart out to him and helped him understand my perspective. It may not always match up. We may not always agree, but give your husband that benefit. He needs you. You are his helpmate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Your belief in your husband is empowering and affirming to his leadership. I think\u2014I\u2019m looking at Francis, who is nodding his head\u2014she has made you a better leader\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Oh, yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u2014because she is a strong woman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Absolutely! If you knew me before I met her, I am sure you would say: \u201cWow! That was a <em>major<\/em> transformation. There\u2019s <em>no<\/em> way he could pull off what he\u2019s doing without her.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Knowing that she believes in you \/ respects you\u2014that she\u2019ll follow you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that puts wind in your sails. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>You see\u2014because my parents were dead by the time I was in junior high\u2014so I\u2019ve never had <em>support<\/em> \/ I never had anyone <em>believing<\/em> in me. I didn\u2019t have a cheerleader\u2014anyone in my corner. Yet, the Lord was enough. The Lord was absolutely enough\u2014so, yes\u2014amen and amen. But He created us in such a way that\u2014now, when I finally had someone who believed in me\u2014like another human being, who I knew was going to be by my side and support me, even when everyone else thought I was crazy\u2014yet, she believed \/ she believed in me. I can\u2019t\u2014I can\u2019t say enough. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>You know, one of the things I have to say is that the thought of coming before the Lord, at the end of my life, and having Him say: \u201c<em>Why<\/em> did you prevent your husband from doing all these things I had planned for him?\u201d\u2014<em>that<\/em> is part of what scares me. I think we have to realize that, as women, we want to be life-givers and we want to put wind in their sails, as you put it. We don\u2019t want to stand in the way and limit them and limit what God is going to do through them. <em>That<\/em> is what should scare us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>This is what the book was about\u2014eternity. You know, we have this wonderful family\u2014full of laughter \/ everything else\u2014but that\u2019s going to be over in a second. Just to put it bluntly\u2014we\u2019re going to die any moment. Lisa or I will stand <em>before<\/em> God, Himself\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>\u2014and what are we going to care about?\u00a0 So, if I love her, then, it\u2019s not just about this time here. I want to prepare her for that moment when she <em>faces<\/em> Him. In the same way\u2014and yes, we are saved by <em>grace<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but I want her to know: \u201cI accomplished the work You gave me to do, Father, while I was on that earth\u2014during that brief, little vapor of a time. I did what You wanted me to do.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s true love\u2014is when you are looking at someone\u2014and not just thinking of the here and now, where I benefit. I think about the forever and ever and ever\u2014\u201cHow are you going\u2026 \/ What\u2019s that existence going to be like?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s based upon how we live <em>now<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is that really your hand print on the cover?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>No; my hand wouldn\u2019t have fit on the book. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was just looking at your hand, going,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>I know! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cYou\u2019ve got <em>huge<\/em> hands.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis:<\/strong> I know; it\u2019s freaky\/scary. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We do have copies of your book, <em>You and Me Forever<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order a copy, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014<em>You and Me Forever: Marriage in Light of Eternity<\/em> by Francis and Lisa Chan. Again, find it online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d\u2019 as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd don\u2019t forget\u2014if you have <em>any<\/em> interest in\u2014and I hope you do\u2014in coming to one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways this spring \/ they\u2019re going to be in over 50 cities across the country\u2014sign up this week and you save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. It\u2019s a special offer we\u2019re making for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners that expires this weekend. If you have any <em>questions<\/em> about the getaway, call us or go online at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd can I just say?\u2014for you to have a couple of days\u2014where the two of you get away, and recalibrate, and refocus, and breathe a little fresh air into your marriage\u2014that would be good for anybody. If it\u2019s been a while since you\u2019ve done that, you ought to go ahead and make plans <em>now<\/em> to be at one of the getaways and save a little money in the process; okay? Sign up at FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get registered for an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. If you want to buy a gift card for somebody to attend a getaway, those are available at 50 percent off the regular registration fee as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGet the details at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800- FL-TODAY and join us at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about how marriage and ministry can coexist\u2014how you can be in alignment, as husband and wife, in being involved in kingdom work. Our guests, Francis and Lisa Chan, will be back with us tomorrow. I hope you can be here as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright<sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:34"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.24M"],"filesize_raw":["26462239"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-300127.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-300127.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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and Lisa Chan, married for over two decades and parents of seven children, encourage husbands and wives to fervently pray for one another and seek a marriage that is glorifying to the Lord.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-01-23.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It was after a trip to Africa that Francis Chan came back to his home in the United States and told his wife he thought God wanted their family to downsize. Lisa wasn\u2019t so sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>I didn\u2019t want to give up my things. I didn\u2019t want to move into a smaller home. It was like this ripping that was happening. Of course, because God is so faithful\u2014and every time, He says, \u201cIf you lose your life for My sake, you will find it,\u201d\u2014on the flip side is when I got to see the <em>joy<\/em> of it and, eventually, got to go to Africa with Francis. I was just brokenhearted at my own resistance and sinfulness because I <em>wished<\/em> I could have had those feelings [of joy] on the outset. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, January 23<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLisa Chan says that God\u2019s Word is true when it says, \u201cWhoever loses his life for My sake will find it.\u201d That\u2019s true, even in marriage. We\u2019ll talk more about that today with Francis and Lisa Chan. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition. We\u2019ve been hearing, both last week and again this week, from a lot of our listeners who are getting in touch with us about the special offer that expires this week on our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways. For those of you who are new listeners to <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>the<em> Weekend to Remember <\/em>is the two-and-a-half-day getaway we do for couples in cities all across the country. It\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> romantic time away together, where you learn what the Bible teaches about God\u2019s design for marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you sign up for one of these getaways before the end of the week, you will save \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t50 percent off the regular registration fee as a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are encouraging you to get more information\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014find out when a getaway is going to be in a city near where you live and then block out that weekend, and call and register now to save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. The number to call is 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can also register online at FamilyLifeToday.com. I know some of these getaways are starting to get close to selling out, so don\u2019t hesitate. Join us at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaway, and register this week to save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I\u2019ve got to be honest\u2014I\u2019m not sure I want to talk to the couple we have joining us today, because they just shared with us they\u2019ve had like 12 fights in the past 21 years. I\u2019m kind of like, \u201cBring me some couples I can relate to a little more\u201d; you know? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I was thinking: \u201cWe\u2019ve been married double that. We\u2019ve got more than 24, though,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014doubling your dozen that you\u2019ve had. Francis and Lisa Chan join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They\u2019ve written a book called <em>You and Me Forever<\/em>. In case there is <em>a<\/em> listener who doesn\u2019t know who this couple is\u2014they live in the Bay Area of Northern California. They are about church planting there\u2014also, ministering to men \/ I assume it\u2019s only men coming out of prison. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Yes; we\u2019ve been trying to start a women\u2019s home as well. So, right now, it\u2019s just the guys coming out of prison. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to go to something you mention in your book. You made this statement\u2014you said, \u201cIf you could manuscript your prayers of what you\u2019ve prayed about for the last month, what would they reveal about you, as a couple?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>So, it\u2019s like what David says in Psalm 27, verse 4, when he says, \u201cThis one thing I ask of the Lord and that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and to inquire in His temple.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was his one prayer request: \u201cGod, I want You\u2014I want You. I want to see You. I want to be with You.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the question is: \u201cGive me a manuscript of your prayers for the last month. I want to <em>hear<\/em>: \u2018What do you hunger for? What do you want?\u2019 You\u2019re coming before the Creator, the Sovereign One, who is in control of this <em>whole<\/em> <em>earth<\/em>; and what are you asking for?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And most of us are asking for: \u201cFix this,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cMake life easier or better\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cfor me\u201d; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Amen! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if that\u2019s\u2014I mean, is it illegitimate for us to pray\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cI\u2019d like things to go better in my life\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>No; you know, it\u2019s\u2014the Lord tells us to bring what we desire before Him; but also, the things that we desire reveal a lot about us; you know?\u00a0 It opens our eyes to: \u201cWow! That\u2019s what I\u2019m about?\u2014is: \u2018Get rid of all my problems,\u2019\u201d\u2014because I don\u2019t see that in Scripture. It\u2019s more about, \u201cGod, give me the <em>strength<\/em> to make it through this\u2014develop my <em>character<\/em> through these trials.\u201d\u00a0 You know, that\u2019s what I see in Scripture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>How much of my prayers do I pray <em>for<\/em> Francis?\u00a0 Do I pray <em>for<\/em> his walk with God?\u00a0 Do I pray that God would help in his moments of temptation?\u00a0 I mean, that\u2019s something that has developed in <em>my<\/em> life that softens my heart towards him\u2014helps me to love him better. I want to be praying for him because who else is going to pray for him the way that I will?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>One of the things that I try to do, when I pray over my meal at lunch\u2014I don\u2019t do it every time\u2014but I try to pray for my wife Barbara and her walk\u2014that she\u2019ll see God show up in her life, and she\u2019ll respond to Him, and she will grow in her faith. Then, if I\u2019m having lunch with another guy, pray for his wife as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t think a lot of us are challenging one another with that concept, Francis\u2014that you speak of in your book\u2014of really making sure your prayers are about the agenda of what God\u2019s up to; because He is at work in your spouse\u2019s life, in your children, and in your extended family as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>I just recently started running; you know?\u00a0 I was getting out of shape; and so, I\u2019ve been running around this track at my daughter\u2019s school. Every lap, I\u2019ll pray for a different kid. So, it\u2019s nice to have seven kids and a wife. [Laughter] It\u2019s, at least, two miles a day that I\u2019m running, which is good. As I\u2019m praying, the prayers aren\u2019t: \u201cOh, help us get along better,\u201d or \u201cHelp this,\u201d \u201cHelp that.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s like: \u201cGod, make my wife just this amazing warrior for you. Give her even greater love \/ greater capacity.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHelp my daughter, as she\u2019s in this school right now, to take a stand for you. It\u2019s about Your kingdom.\u201d \u201cUse them to influence other people\u2014my kids in grade school \/ my kid in Little League\u2014have him influence this team.\u201d It\u2019s about God: \u201cYour kingdom\u2014Your kingdom come.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Lisa, tell the truth. When he starts praying like that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Does it scare me?\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014do you get scared?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>No; you know, my immediate thought was: \u201cI\u2019m so glad he\u2019s praying for me! I need it.\u201d\u00a0 That is, honestly, my first thought. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I want to go back\u2014because you said your dad said, \u201cNo,\u201d the first two times to Francis\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>They are going to feel so bad about that. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But, as a daddy, I understand wanting to protect\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, yes!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014my daughter\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Absolutely! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and along comes Francis, who\u2014as you said\u2014they weren\u2019t sure if he was crazy about God or just crazy. And your journey together has been a journey of <em>risk<\/em> and a journey of faith; that, honestly, I can understand a daddy going, \u201cThis may be more risk than I raised my little girl for.\u201d Do you know what I\u2019m talking about?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Yes; and I\u2019ve seen that tension in them. There have been times when I\u2019ve just had to cry and be honest with them, like, \u201cI need you to support me and say, \u2018You are never going to regret surrendering to God and giving things up.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s hard when you have that parent\u2019s heart that <em>immediately<\/em> wants to protect. I have it, too, with all of my kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I do get it in a different way now; but how much I want to <em>encourage<\/em> parents to be that voice of <em>courage<\/em> for their kids\u2014married or not; married 20 years \/ 30 years\u2014still be that voice that says: \u201cHoney, go for it! Don\u2019t look back. Surrender it all to God, because He\u2019s got you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But there have to have been times when crazy Francis came to you and said, \u201cI think the Lord is saying this,\u201d and your immediate answer wasn\u2019t, \u201cYes, let\u2019s go for that,\u201d\u2014 where you had to kind of go: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cReally?\u00a0 There is a cost here.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>One of the hardest\u2014the first most difficult was when he had come back from Africa. I had not been with him on that trip. God <em>completely<\/em> wrecked him. He wanted to sell our home and cut our house size from 2,000 square foot to 1,000 square foot\u2014it was, literally, right in half. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had two kids. We had a couple of people living with us\u2014we always have\u2014but he wanted to move. He was like: \u201cI can\u2019t do this anymore. I need to give something up in order to love these kids that I saw.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was love-motivated, which was so awesome; but I was so honest with him\u2014I said, \u201cI wasn\u2019t with you. I don\u2019t feel love in my heart; I feel more like, this is going to stink!\u201d [Laughter] No; I mean, I\u2019m just being honest. I didn\u2019t want to give up my things. I didn\u2019t want to move into a smaller home. It was like this ripping that was happening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, because God is so faithful\u2014and every time He says, \u201cIf you lose your life for My sake, you will find it,\u201d\u2014on the flip side is when I got to see the <em>joy<\/em> of it and eventually got to go to Africa with Francis. I was just brokenhearted at my own resistance and sinfulness because I <em>wished<\/em> I could have had those feelings [of joy] on the outset. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your immediate reaction was, \u201cI don\u2019t know.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>It was: \u201cI don\u2019t want to, but I will do what is in your heart. I will <em>not<\/em> stand in the way of what you want to do.\u201d\u00a0 And so\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And were you still\u2014on the day you were moving into a 1,000 square-foot house, were you going: \u201cI don\u2019t want to do this,\u201d or had\u2014by that time, had you started to go, \u201cOkay; I guess this is going to be okay,\u201d or what?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Or did you negotiate a 1,500 square-foot home?\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>No, it was 1,000; and it was hard. I think the initial reaction was the hardest. Then, it was, \u201cSwallow it.\u201d\u00a0 Then, it was, \u201cThis is going to be fine.\u201d\u00a0 Then, it was: \u201cWhy am I so stupid?\u00a0 This has been the best thing.\u201d\u00a0 It was one of our <em>favorite<\/em> homes. We had the best neighbors that we reached out to and just loved. It was the tiniest, little thing. We had six of us, eventually, there. We had two more kids there; and then, we had two girls living with us. We moved up to eight living in that little, tiny house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Francis, if I\u2019ve learned anything in the years I\u2019ve been married, in order for our wives to have that kind of response, you have to have loved her with a love that results in respect and the ability to trust\u2014when her heart isn\u2019t quite yet in it\u2014but she knows she\u2019s got to go with you because she\u2019s committed to you <em>and<\/em> she\u2019s committed to the mission. Talk about your love for Lisa and how you have built that kind of trust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>I think, not to over-spiritualize it, but I do really believe that one of the things I\u2019ve been able to help Lisa with is to trust in the Lord. So, when it came to a bigger decision\u2014like the house\u2014she had seen God\u2019s faithfulness in the past, and I think that\u2019s where the trust was. She was trusting that I was following the Lord and that the Lord was going to bless our steps, as long as we just keep going, and even sacrificing\/denying ourselves during those times we didn\u2019t feel like it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the same time, we had been around the world. They would find us, even right now, having this conversation\u2014about a 1,000 square-foot home, with toilets and air-conditioning\u2014just absolutely laughable! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014that that\u2019s a sacrifice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Exactly!\u2014because this is their <em>dream<\/em> house. So, I don\u2019t want to sit here and go, \u201cOh, you guys, we really suffered.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s like: \u201cMan, that\u2019s <em>luxury<\/em>. We\u2019re living in America.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>That\u2019s why it wasn\u2019t until <em>after<\/em> I had been <em>with<\/em> him into some of those areas of extreme poverty that I did feel so stupid for complaining and thinking that I was sacrificing so much. I said, \u201cOh, I would have sacrificed more.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cWe could live in a tent,\u201d\u2014although that would probably be really hard\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You kind of looked at him\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cDon\u2019t plant any ideas!\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s what she was thinking\u2014she was going: \u201cOh, no! We\u2019re going to downsize from 1,000 square feet.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>And that\u2019s crossed my mind\u2014that\u2019s happened\u2014the tent. Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Francis, let\u2019s talk about how you are the spiritual lover and leader of Lisa and your family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve got a lot going on in your life out there: \u201cHow do you love Lisa? How do you provide the kind of mandate that Ephesians 5 talks about\u2014\u2018Husbands, love you wives as Christ loved the church\u2019?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>It\u2019s something the Lord put <em>in<\/em> me. It\u2019s <em>weird<\/em> because I didn\u2019t really have that, growing up; and yet, it\u2019s so natural to me. It\u2019s not like I have to force myself to love my kids, and to enjoy them, or force myself to spend time with Lisa. I am gone a lot, but all the kids know I <em>want<\/em> to be at home with them. A lot of times, I will take them with me on some of my speaking engagements\u2014I\u2019ll take one kid at a time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I do serve kids\u2014you know, my kids\u2014 through relationship, through just laughing with them, and teaching them, and disciplining them, and getting the time with them. A lot of times, we\u2019re just in ministry together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Lisa, we\u2019ll let you answer the question too: \u201cHow does he love you?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Well,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And again\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>\u2014practically speaking,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014not in an idealistic way\u2014yes; in a practical way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Yes; one of the nicest things\u2014that every mother will appreciate\u2014is those nights, when he\u2019ll see that I have been in the home \/ I have had the little people all over me\u2014and the big ones, sometimes, that have the emotional needs that go far beyond your little ones\u2014and he\u2019ll just say: \u201cHoney, I got this. You just go to Target\u2014[Laughter]\u2014just walk around Target, aimlessly, with a Diet Coke in your hand.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is such a blessing. He <em>knows<\/em> when I need a little moment to myself; and he knows those times when he\u2019ll say: \u201cHey, we\u2019ve got our high schoolers still at home. They are going to watch the little ones. You and I are going to go grab dessert really quick.\u201d\u00a0 That is how he shows love\u2014it is to sneak a little time away \/ grab some dessert or just to let me go have a moment to myself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As I hear you guys describe your marriage and how this works out for you, I hear a strong sense of mutuality; but I also hear there\u2019s leadership, and there\u2019s responding to leadership. You know, there is tension, even among Christians today, about: \u201cWhat\u2019s this supposed to look like? How are we supposed to do this? Is the man supposed to lead? Is the wife supposed to submit?\u201d\u00a0 Unpack how you think that\u2019s supposed to work and why we are confused about it today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>I think we\u2019re confused about it because we\u2019ve rarely seen a good picture of it. We live in a culture that\u2019s very anti-authority\u2014because when have you found godly <em>serving<\/em> authority; okay?\u00a0 Yet, that\u2019s a picture of God. It gets to the point where we even question God\u2019s authority, like, \u201cHe has <em>no<\/em> <em>right<\/em> to give me these rules.\u201d\u00a0 We forget that, no, those rules were to protect you \/ they were to give you <em>life<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe is a <em>wonderful<\/em> authority!\u00a0 I mean, that\u2019s the whole rebellion of Adam and Eve. It\u2019s like: \u201cWell, did He really say?\u00a0 That sure does look good.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s like: \u201cNo! You\u2019re going to ruin everything!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAuthority can be beautiful. Jesus, who <em>knew<\/em> who He was\u2014He understood He was the Lord\u2014yet, He goes and He washes the disciples\u2019 feet\u2014He <em>dies<\/em> on the cross for them. That\u2019s our picture of authority. That\u2019s what the head of the home is supposed to <em>do<\/em>. If you had that, then, I believe you would see a lot more women, going: \u201cOkay; I see that. I see how it can be good to be under their authority.\u201d\u00a0 So, I see, in Scripture\u2014it is pretty clear to me that the man is supposed to be the head of the home, but he\u2019s supposed to lead in a way that\u2019s like a servant that is Christ-like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When a man serves, denies himself, loves, leads, and really takes care of his wife, it makes <em>her<\/em> responsibility and her response reasonable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Lisa, in the book, I so enjoy what you write on Page 88 because you talk about five reasons why\u2014what has become a very nasty word in our culture \/ a politically-incorrect word\u2014the word, \u201csubmission,\u201d\u2014but it\u2019s a biblical term. You talk about why we should do that. I want you to share that with our listeners, because there is probably a listener or two who is losing heart in well-doing and needs to be reminded why it\u2019s so important. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>You know, it was hard when we were writing the book; because we could write a whole giant book about submission and authority\u2014right?\u2014and leadership, but we didn\u2019t want <em>that<\/em> to be the focus of the book. But it is important to understand, for a woman\u2014especially because so many women will say: \u201cMy husband doesn\u2019t <em>deserve<\/em> to be submitted to. He is <em>not<\/em> a good leader. He is <em>not<\/em> following the Lord.\u201d We\u2019re not submitting to our husband\u2019s perfection and the fact that they deserve it. We\u2019re submitting to the fact that God has given them that position of authority. We\u2019re submitting to a God-given position and not perfection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere were times, even in the beginning, when Francis was not kind and nice about his authority and leadership; but I am still responsible, before God, to say: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 He has given him this position.\u201d\u00a0 You can\u2019t get around it through Scripture. It\u2019s not one place that says, \u201cWives, submit to your husbands,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s a <em>few<\/em> times\u2014look it up in your concordance. We can\u2019t be so afraid of obeying the Lord\u2014there is <em>freedom<\/em> in it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe second thing is\u2014only our submission to God should be absolute. We don\u2019t submit to our husbands if they ask us to sin, obviously. There is a <em>limit<\/em>, in that sense. We are <em>all<\/em> under the umbrella of God\u2019s authority. So, if our husband steps outside of that, then we are not to join him in that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You don\u2019t follow him\u2014you don\u2019t follow him there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>Right. I think one of the most important things we have to realize is that we find ourselves thinking that we\u2019re fighting against our husbands; but ultimately, we\u2019re fighting against God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is <em>not<\/em> something we want to do\u2014the Scripture says that God <em>opposes<\/em> the proud, but He gives grace to the humble. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt takes humility to follow someone\u2019s lead; but, you know, you look back at the very beginning\u2014God said: \u201cIt\u2019s not good for the man to be alone. I am going to create a helpmate for him.\u201d\u00a0 Why can\u2019t we embrace the <em>beauty<\/em> of that and say: \u201cWow! I want to give my husband the benefit of my wisdom \/ my insight\u201d? Then, after I\u2019ve laid that all down\u2014and I\u2019ve shown him \/ I\u2019ve shared my thoughts and my heart\u2014to allow him to lead \/ to make the ultimate decision, knowing that I\u2019ve poured my heart out to him and helped him understand my perspective. It may not always match up. We may not always agree, but give your husband that benefit. He needs you. You are his helpmate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Your belief in your husband is empowering and affirming to his leadership. I think\u2014I\u2019m looking at Francis, who is nodding his head\u2014she has made you a better leader\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Oh, yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u2014because she is a strong woman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Absolutely! If you knew me before I met her, I am sure you would say: \u201cWow! That was a <em>major<\/em> transformation. There\u2019s <em>no<\/em> way he could pull off what he\u2019s doing without her.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Knowing that she believes in you \/ respects you\u2014that she\u2019ll follow you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that puts wind in your sails. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>You see\u2014because my parents were dead by the time I was in junior high\u2014so I\u2019ve never had <em>support<\/em> \/ I never had anyone <em>believing<\/em> in me. I didn\u2019t have a cheerleader\u2014anyone in my corner. Yet, the Lord was enough. The Lord was absolutely enough\u2014so, yes\u2014amen and amen. But He created us in such a way that\u2014now, when I finally had someone who believed in me\u2014like another human being, who I knew was going to be by my side and support me, even when everyone else thought I was crazy\u2014yet, she believed \/ she believed in me. I can\u2019t\u2014I can\u2019t say enough. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lisa: <\/strong>You know, one of the things I have to say is that the thought of coming before the Lord, at the end of my life, and having Him say: \u201c<em>Why<\/em> did you prevent your husband from doing all these things I had planned for him?\u201d\u2014<em>that<\/em> is part of what scares me. I think we have to realize that, as women, we want to be life-givers and we want to put wind in their sails, as you put it. We don\u2019t want to stand in the way and limit them and limit what God is going to do through them. <em>That<\/em> is what should scare us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>This is what the book was about\u2014eternity. You know, we have this wonderful family\u2014full of laughter \/ everything else\u2014but that\u2019s going to be over in a second. Just to put it bluntly\u2014we\u2019re going to die any moment. Lisa or I will stand <em>before<\/em> God, Himself\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>\u2014and what are we going to care about?\u00a0 So, if I love her, then, it\u2019s not just about this time here. I want to prepare her for that moment when she <em>faces<\/em> Him. In the same way\u2014and yes, we are saved by <em>grace<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but I want her to know: \u201cI accomplished the work You gave me to do, Father, while I was on that earth\u2014during that brief, little vapor of a time. I did what You wanted me to do.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s true love\u2014is when you are looking at someone\u2014and not just thinking of the here and now, where I benefit. I think about the forever and ever and ever\u2014\u201cHow are you going\u2026 \/ What\u2019s that existence going to be like?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s based upon how we live <em>now<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is that really your hand print on the cover?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>No; my hand wouldn\u2019t have fit on the book. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was just looking at your hand, going,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>I know! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cYou\u2019ve got <em>huge<\/em> hands.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis:<\/strong> I know; it\u2019s freaky\/scary. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We do have copies of your book, <em>You and Me Forever<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order a copy, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014<em>You and Me Forever: Marriage in Light of Eternity<\/em> by Francis and Lisa Chan. Again, find it online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d\u2019 as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd don\u2019t forget\u2014if you have <em>any<\/em> interest in\u2014and I hope you do\u2014in coming to one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways this spring \/ they\u2019re going to be in over 50 cities across the country\u2014sign up this week and you save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. It\u2019s a special offer we\u2019re making for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners that expires this weekend. If you have any <em>questions<\/em> about the getaway, call us or go online at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd can I just say?\u2014for you to have a couple of days\u2014where the two of you get away, and recalibrate, and refocus, and breathe a little fresh air into your marriage\u2014that would be good for anybody. If it\u2019s been a while since you\u2019ve done that, you ought to go ahead and make plans <em>now<\/em> to be at one of the getaways and save a little money in the process; okay? Sign up at FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get registered for an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. If you want to buy a gift card for somebody to attend a getaway, those are available at 50 percent off the regular registration fee as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGet the details at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800- FL-TODAY and join us at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about how marriage and ministry can coexist\u2014how you can be in alignment, as husband and wife, in being involved in kingdom work. Our guests, Francis and Lisa Chan, will be back with us tomorrow. I hope you can be here as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright<sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300127","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300127"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300127"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300127"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300127"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300127"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300127"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300127"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}