{"id":300091,"date":"2019-03-19T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-03-19T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-impact-of-divorce\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:17","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:17","slug":"the-impact-of-divorce","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-impact-of-divorce\/","title":{"rendered":"The Impact of Divorce"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Ron Deal | Series: Growing Up Blended | Authors Dave and Ann Wilson talk to Ron Deal about the impact divorce can have on a person&#8217;s life. Dave, who lived with his mom after his parents&#8217; split, shares what it was like visiting his dad and how he felt about his dad&#8217;s new family. The Wilsons share how the divorce impacted Dave&#8217;s ability to resolve conflict in a healthy way.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Authors Dave and Ann Wilson talk to Ron Deal about the impact divorce can have on a person&#8217;s life. The Wilsons share how the divorce impacted Dave&#8217;s ability to resolve conflict in a healthy way.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"Authors Dave and Ann Wilson talk to Ron Deal about the impact divorce can have on a person&#039;s life.","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-03-19.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:12","filesize":"24.91M","filesize_raw":"26120853","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2830,2812,2894],"tags":[4153,4154],"podcast_series":[7178],"cwp_profile":[3300],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300091","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-children-of-divorce","category-realities-of-divorce","category-stepfamily-living","tag-broken-families","tag-kids-in-blended-families","podcast_series-growing-up-blended","cwp_profile-ron-deal","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300091\/the-impact-of-divorce","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300091\/the-impact-of-divorce","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"vBx2oyD9OS\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-impact-of-divorce\/\">The Impact of Divorce<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-impact-of-divorce\/embed\/#?secret=vBx2oyD9OS\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Impact of Divorce&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"vBx2oyD9OS\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-03-19.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-03-19.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When a child grows up in a home where mom and dad have gotten a divorce, that experience will follow him into his own marriage. That was the case for Dave Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I had no idea how the past was coming like a bag of luggage into my marriage; Ann had no idea, so that\u2014she\u2019s a strong woman; and she was pushing, and I was leaving\u2014you know, whether I went to another room or, literally, just emotionally shut down\u2014again, not connecting any of these dots. It took <em>years<\/em>. We connected them, eventually; but that\u2019s where we started.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, March 19<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. Dave and Ann talk today about how their marriage was impacted by the fact that Dave grew up in a home where mom and dad got a divorce. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I just have to say\u2014you got pretty transparent this week, and you\u2019re <em>always<\/em> transparent\u2014I mean, that\u2019s just who both of you are. You are kind of: \u201cHere\u2019s who we are\u2014not hiding anything,\u201d people; right?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; but this conversation\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This was a little different.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014on a counseling couch. Can I get up now? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No; no!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You guys have me laying here\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>This is good stuff. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Ann is <em>loving<\/em> this. I don\u2019t know\u2014this is crazy.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have Ron Deal joining us this week. Ron, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ron gives leadership to FamilyLife Blended<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. He is giving leadership to an event that\u2019s taking place in three or four weeks\u2014it\u2019s Saturday, April 27<sup>th<\/sup>. It\u2019s a nationwide\/actually, a worldwide simulcast of an event that\u2019s going to be hosted in Minnesota. This is the <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> event, and it\u2019s designed for who?\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s designed for couples in blended families; also appropriate for dating couples, who have kids. We would <em>love<\/em> for pastors, and youth leaders, and people who just want to understand blended families a little better to be a part of it as well; but it\u2019s an enrichment day for couples in blended families.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And folks who live in the Minneapolis area are invited to attend the live event; but folks all around the world\u2014on their cell phones, on their laptops, in their living rooms, in local churches\u2014can connect to the <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em> event. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to find out how you can connect or how you can be a host church for this event. You have a lineup of speakers that include\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014our very own!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014the new hosts of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Dave and Ann Wilson. As we\u2019ve already heard this week, part of the reason for that is because Dave\u2019s story\/your story is an all-too-typical story of the American family in our day.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>More and more, this is what young people are experiencing as families dissolve and disintegrate.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>You know, one of the things I want to say to people, who are listening that know and love somebody in a blended family\u2014or perhaps you\u2019re in a blended family\u2014Dave\u2019s experience won\u2019t be <em>exactly<\/em> like every kid, who has a stepparent or has divorced parents, but there will be some themes that I think people can find in common.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me just do a recap of where we\u2019ve been already. Christmas Eve, when you were seven years old, Dave, the family went to church; came home\u2014more presents than you\u2019d ever seen. You opened them up on Christmas Eve, which was not the normal practice. You wake up the next morning; and your mom says, \u201cDad\u2019s gone.\u201d You didn\u2019t know what that meant, but what that meant was the divorce was final. He had moved out.\n\nYou and your family, eventually, relocated to Ohio. Your relationship with your dad was pretty sporadic and strained\u2014and all kinds of emotions that you were processing as you were going through all of that\u2014we\u2019ve had that conversation. In fact, Ron\u2014because you have been doing counseling for decades\u2014this felt a little bit like you [Dave] said\u2014you were on the couch, and it\u2019s been a counseling session.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; how am I doing, Ron?\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; you\u2019re doing great.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Doing okay?\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Alright. Can we end this now? Do we have to keep talking? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Well, unfortunately, we always have to figure out how the past is affecting the present; so\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; oh, there\u2019s no effects.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>No residue?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Okay; good.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Just ask my wife; she\u2019ll tell you. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>That\u2019s why we brought her here\u2014to keep you honest. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>You know, one of the things that\u2019s interesting is\u2014that we haven\u2019t talked about yet\u2014is just how you coped with all this. I mean, I\u2019ve heard you, in the past, in different venues, say different things; so let me just toss a couple of words at you.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Okay.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I\u2019m not exactly sure that these are right, and you can comment on those.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Alright.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I heard you say you were jealous of your dad\u2019s new wife; and she had a son, I believe, so you had stepbrother.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I had a stepbrother.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Okay; so a little jealous of how dad spent time and invested in them\u2014his new family\u2014and not in you.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>It made it hard for you to move toward them; so part of your coping was to just withdraw, and retreat, and stay away.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, definitely; I stayed away. I really lived in a little cocoon with my mom, up in Ohio. My dad would come in every once in a while. I didn\u2019t want to go down and see them, now, in Miami. Again, I was so sad; and felt betrayed and abandoned.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I did\u2014it was sort of mandated I go see them\u2014I\u2019m glad I did now, but it wasn\u2019t something I looked forward to.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>So let\u2019s connect some dots. When you feel abandoned, and hurt, and betrayed\u2014and you\u2019re worried about your mother and you\u2019re concerned about her\u2014you retreat from some people; you move toward other people; in this case, your mom, to kind of protect and honor that relationship.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And I would say, too, Ron\u2014like Dave had a full life and became really obsessed, a little bit, with sports. He was <em>good<\/em> at it.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>He threw himself into that.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Is that possible?\u2014to be obsessed with sports?\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think so! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, it wasn\u2019t an obsession.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Okay; so now, we\u2019re doing a program on denial. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and idolatry, it sounds like.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know what you guys are talking about! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>This is so good!\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Alright; so yes, perfectionism\u2014not necessarily perfect\u2014but <em>excelling<\/em> at something that gives you worth\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014like, \u201cI can\u2019t get it over here\u2014this is a mess; that\u2019s confusing\u2014but man, I can do this; and I can be really good and matter.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did it make you mad that your dad didn\u2019t come to your games?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I can remember when he showed up\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014in college.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014at a college football game, and he hadn\u2019t been there. He shows up\u2014I didn\u2019t even know he was coming. I walk out of the locker room and there he is, with my mom. I can remember\u2014I can see it in my mind\u2019s eye right now\u2014walking out of the locker room, like, \u201cWhat are you doing here?\u201d I didn\u2019t say that to him\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t want you here,\u201d\u2014but I immediately went to, \u201cOh, now, you\u2019re going to show...\u201d I connected all the dots: \u201cYou\u2019re here because, now, you\u2019re reading about me; and you\u2019re thinking I\u2019m going to be possibly making you some money, playing after college\u201d; so I was mad.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I can\u2019t imagine that you <em>weren\u2019t<\/em> resentful; I mean, you had to be.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, <em>totally resentful<\/em>. I covered it up\u2014I was your, you know, all-American quarterback-type kid\u2014you know, trying to put on the fa\u00e7ade.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Did you pull away from him? Did you kind of distance yourself, like, \u201cI\u2019m not going to let you have the satisfaction of getting my love and affection\u201d?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Totally.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We had a relationship, but we didn\u2019t have a relationship.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>So this is where we turn to Ann.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Good!\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>We\u2019ve noticed some themes in Dave\u2019s life, and understandably so, you know:\n\nWhen you get hurt and abandoned\/rejected\u2014keep your loyalties tight, where it\u2019s good, and be distant where it\u2019s not good.\n\nIn moments of distress, pull away\/back up.\n\nExcel at something\u2014have something you\u2019re really good at and throw yourself, 100 percent, into that thing and do it <em>great<\/em>\u2014because that\u2019s part of giving you identity and meaning\/purpose in life.\n\nDid any of that carry over into your marriage?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; I think the biggest repercussion was the ability to resolve conflict in our relationship. I was 19 when we got married; Dave was 22, so we weren\u2019t thinking about our past. We weren\u2019t thinking all these things would affect our present; and yet, we would have our fights; and he would leave. That wasn\u2019t my style\u2014I grew up in a family that\u2014we would talk about everything\u2014even yell at each other\u2014but still feel secure in the love, so we would talk about everything.\n\nWhen Dave walked out of the room, it would make me furious, not thinking\/not even having the thought, \u201cWell, of course, he would leave and withdraw; because conflict is a bad thing to him.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, I\u2019m not even connecting those dots. She would follow me into the kitchen\u2014wherever\u2014and say, \u201cWe have to talk,\u201d and I\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Which probably just made it worse.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014worse.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, I\u2019d be like: \u201cGet out of here. What are we doing?\u201d; because, now, I know I had this belief about conflict: \u201cIt\u2019s bad You avoid it at all costs.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cIt ended in divorce.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I remember sitting on this bed. He left, and he went upstairs. He closed the bedroom door, and he sat on the bed. I knock open the bedroom door, and I sit right beside him. I put my hand on his leg, and I looked at him and said, \u201cWe just need to talk.\u201d\u00a0 He said: \u201cWhat are you doing? Get out of here!\u201d I didn\u2019t know what to do!\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; so there\u2019s a mechanism in him that he grew up doing a lot of, so of course he just continued to do that; and that is\u2014in the face of distress, and conflict, and a really hard situation\u2014you just withdraw; you pull away; you retreat; you go back to where it\u2019s safe. It wasn\u2019t safe to be <em>with<\/em> you in the conflict; so of course, he would retreat.\n\nBut I can totally see how, from your point of view: \u201cFamily\u2014we stay engaged. We talk this out. Even if it\u2019s hard, we stay.\u201d That must have meant that \u201cHe doesn\u2019t love me,\u201d or something. Now, you said a minute ago, \u201cI would get furious.\u201d I\u2019m wondering if you were really afraid: \u201cHe\u2019s leaving.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>To be truthful, I wasn\u2019t afraid he would leave; but I think I disrespected it. I thought, \u201cWhat kind of a man leaves?\u201d To me, it appeared to be weakness, which\u2014think about how that relayed to Dave. What a horrible thing for me to relay to him, \u201cI think you\u2019re weak,\u201d which made him withdraw even more.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Exactly; so if he\u2019s weak, what\u2019s the follow-up to that? If he\u2019s weak, then what?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Hey, I like it; you\u2019re getting counseling now! [Laughter] This is sort of fun.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Turnaround\u2019s fair play.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019m not sure what I think of that. If he\u2019s weak, maybe it means I have to become strong: \u201cWho will be the strong one in the family? How will he <em>lead<\/em> <em>me<\/em>? How will he lead <em>us<\/em>?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u201cWe\u2019re not safe and secure if he\u2019s weak,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014there\u2019s the fear; see. There\u2019s this huge, looming thing that says: \u201cOh no; this is going to get bad; this is going to get worse. I don\u2019t know how we\u2019re going to be safe and secure. I have to get mad, so he won\u2019t be that way anymore.\u201d Furious is how it came out, but fear is what was underneath it.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You\u2019re right, and I think I would push his buttons to get a reaction. Anything was better than silence.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014to try to get him to not be weak.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Isn\u2019t that ironic?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And that worked really well, Ron.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Did it?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I bet it did.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No; it did not go well. You know, we\u2019ve shared how hard our first year was in marriage many times\u2014it\u2019s in our marriage book. I had no idea how the past was coming, like a bag of luggage into my marriage; Ann had no idea. She\u2019s a strong woman, and she was pushing; and I was leaving\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014whether I went to another room or, literally, just emotionally shut down\u2014again, not connecting any of these dots. It took <em>years<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We connected them, eventually; but that\u2019s where we started.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; this is why, Bob, I always say: \u201cYou\u2019re always working on your marriage, because God is always using your marriage to work on you.\u201d You know, there\u2019s so much about ourselves we don\u2019t know until marriage forces us to look below the surface and to wrestle with the deep, deep stuff.\n\nI know we have listeners, right now, going: \u201cOh my word; that\u2019s us! I get furious, but I\u2019m really fearful of something?\u2014what is that?\u201d They\u2019re doing self-examination in a <em>really<\/em> healthy way. That\u2019s what God wants\u2014is to mature us <em>through<\/em> our marriages. Of course, if we leave\u2014of course, if we stop\u2014if we abandon, or divorce, or just check out\u2014we never do the hard work; but when we do, we end up in a totally different place. So let\u2019s have fun with this\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Is this fun, Ron?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was going to say: \u201cIs this fun?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>This is great! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s fun for Ron.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Let me ask the two of you to talk to that younger self\u2014that 19-, 20-, 22-year-old person\u2014who all they knew to do was get furious \/ all they knew to do was retreat, but they had no idea why. If you could coach them, what would you say to that younger self?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>What I know now I wish that I\u2019d known then; and it is this: \u201cYou are loved. You are, actually, secure, even if it\u2019s only your mom\u2019s love you can feel at this point or see tangibly. It\u2019s real,\u201d and \u201cThere\u2019s a heavenly Father that\u2019s there, even though your earthly father\u2014you can\u2019t see it or feel it.\u201d I didn\u2019t know that then\u2014I wish I\u2019d have known it then.\n\nAnd \u201cYou don\u2019t have to become your dad.\u201d In many ways, my withdrawal\u2014even that I brought into my marriage\u2014was a copy of the sins of the father. The man I don\u2019t want to become\u2014I\u2019m becoming in many different ways. That could have been avoided if I had known I was truly, truly loved; but I just didn\u2019t know it.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>That would have given you a source to hold onto.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, a foundation.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>A foundation\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014to help you, perhaps, calm down in the midst of all that chaos, and anger, and conflict with Ann\u2014and stay engaged rather than retreat, like Dad did.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think I would have\u2014if I was sitting across from me, I would have reminded myself that marriage is this beautiful agony. It\u2019s beautiful in the fact that you learn how to love someone unconditionally, and that doesn\u2019t come naturally or easily. The agony is\u2014it\u2019s a mirror, and it\u2019s showing you your weaknesses and flaws.\n\nI think, before I got married, I would have never thought that I would be an angry person and I would ever yell. She was always deep down there\u2014it was just the pressure of marriage exposed it. So, I think I would have told myself: \u201cBe patient and don\u2019t be surprised,\u201d\u2014and here\u2019s the biggest thing\u2014\u201cDon\u2019t expect Dave to meet all of my needs, and don\u2019t expect Dave to be just like you.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s beautiful\u2014the way God made Dave\u2014and us having to figure out this whole conflict resolution pattern became one of the <em>best<\/em> things in our marriage. So I would say: \u201cTake your time. Don\u2019t be surprised at the baggage you\u2019re going to discover, but be looking; and then, go to God and say: \u201cGod, I can\u2019t do this. Give me wisdom.\u201d James 1 says, \u201cIf any you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, and He gives generously to anyone who asks.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, here\u2019s a question I have, listening to this. Everybody, who gets married, brings bags into their marriage; right?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We all have a past, and our past comes with us into our marriage. \u201cIf you\u2019re coming into marriage, and your childhood experience was a broken family\u2014mom and dad split\u2014is there anything that we can say, \u2018It\u2019s likely that, in the bag you\u2019re bringing into marriage, there is fear,\u2019 \u2018\u2026there is insecurity,\u2019? Are there some common factors that are going to accompany those?\u201d\n\nI married a woman, whose parents got divorced. I don\u2019t know that we ever stopped to think about, \u201cOh, I wonder what\u2019s unique about your experience.\u201d I do know that, in our dating relationship, I learned pretty quickly that Mary Ann had, as a presupposition: \u201cMen can\u2019t be trusted. I can\u2019t trust Bob; because, in general, men can\u2019t be trusted.\u201d\n\nAre there things like that that a couple today\u2014they\u2019re getting married\u2014and one or both of them are from a family that mom and dad split up\u2014are there things that you would say, \u201cYou ought to expect that this is in the suitcases you\u2019re bringing with you\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>You know, I want to say, \u201cYes,\u201d and \u201cNo\u201d; so let me explain. \u201cYes,\u201d\u2014like in this booklet, \u201cLife in a Blender\u201d, that we\u2019ve written for kids\u2014there\u2019s those common emotions that we\u2019ve talked about with Dave: loss, sadness, fear, guilt, confusion. Those are predictable, to some degree.\n\nAt the same time, the answer is \u201cNo,\u201d because every one of our childhood experiences leads us to certain bruises on our heart\u2014certain emotions that tap those bruises and set us off. It\u2019s what we do with the bruise that is unique and different. It\u2019s <em>that<\/em> mechanism that we have to analyze, in terms of how we carry that in our own marriages.\n\nFor me, when I feel attacked, I withdraw; and I don\u2019t just withdraw to step away\/to find safety\u2014that\u2019s part of it\u2014but it\u2019s also to let my wife know that she\u2019s out of line. [Laughter] So I\u2019m making a statement with my withdrawal; right?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It took me 20 years to learn that!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ann just laughed a little too much. [Laughter] You could relate to that?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I can\u2019t relate; I just think that\u2019s <em>funny<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; oh, she can relate. She\u2019s the violator. [Laughter] She has done that for <em>years<\/em> to me. Come on, what are you talking about? [Laughter] How about denial; right there? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I admit; I am so messed up. There are so many things I have\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, I\u2019ve done it to her; she\u2019s\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Ron, I think I need to meet with you every day. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>So, I\u2019m coming back to what Ann just said a minute ago: \u201cMarriage is a beautiful agony.\u201d The <em>agony<\/em> is: \u201cI have to deal with me\u2014my pride, my blind spots, my past\u2014my mechanisms of how I cope and respond to distressful situations in my life.\u201d\n\nWhat we want to do in marriage is marry somebody that just brings out the joy, and the happiness, and the great things in us. The odd thing about marriage\u2014again, we\u2019re always going to be working on our marriage, because God is always using it to work on us\u2014He will constantly reveal in us another piece of the flesh that needs to die. If I\u2019m open and willing to look in the mirror and be taught, then I will grow and I will mature; and I will connect those dots.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s true in every marriage, whether you come from a broken background\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014or from an intact family\u2014whatever it is. We bring our patterns, our habits, our flesh\u2014we bring our sin patterns into the marriage. Marriage is a great tool that God uses to bring those to the surface so those can be dealt with.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And when we get those dealt with, then we have kids. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>New things come to the surface.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>May God bless them.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you know what? When the kids leave, new things come to the surface.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, it\u2019s just the ongoing\u2014this is God\u2019s refining\/sanctifying work in our lives.\n\nYou and David Olson wrote a book called <em>The Smart Stepfamily Marriage<\/em> that is designed for couples to think through some of these issues that they\u2019re bringing to bear and to navigate the, sometimes, choppy waters of a new marriage if you\u2019re stepping into a stepfamily.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>It is a marriage enrichment guide for couples in blended families\u2014includes an online profile that gives you insight into yourself; so you can begin the agony journey, whether you want to or not, and really grow and mature your relationship.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is less for people [in a first-time marriage] who come from a broken family; but if you are starting a blended or a stepfamily, this would be a good book for a husband and wife to go through together\u2014learn some things about each other and, with a lot of grace for each other, say: \u201cOh, okay; I didn\u2019t realize this. I didn\u2019t know about this. How do we work together to pursue God in our marriage?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>And of course, we want them to move toward their children\u2014children and stepchildren. The \u201cLife in a Blender\u201d booklet helps you do that. It helps put words on your child\u2019s experience for <em>them<\/em> and their benefit; but then, it also gives <em>you<\/em> a guide to help you engage them in dialogue around what they\u2019re feeling and experiencing in your family.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have both resources in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center: \u201cLife in a Blender\u201d for parents of kids; or grandparents of kids; or aunts and uncles, friends, youth pastors. If you know a young person, who comes from a blended family, go through this little book with them and help them identify the emotions that are attached to their experience.\n\nAnd then, if you\u2019re starting a blended marriage, get a copy of Ron\u2019s book, <em>The Smart Stepfamily Marriage<\/em>. It\u2019ll help you be prepared for some of the things that are just around the corner for you, and there\u2019s a good path for you to be on so you can build a strong marriage. You just need a little guidance; and Ron provides that for you in the book, <em>The Smart Stepfamily Marriage<\/em>. You\u2019ll find these resources, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nAnd then don\u2019t forget\u2014on Saturday, April 27<sup>th<\/sup>, in Minneapolis, Ron\u2014along with Dave and Ann Wilson, Shaunti Feldhahn, Chris Brooks, and others\u2014are going to be presenting a one-day event called <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em>. This is a live event in Minneapolis; it\u2019s going to be simulcast all around the world. You can be a part of the audience for this, either as a couple or with your small group or your church. There are all kinds of ways that you can plug in and benefit from this one-day <em>Blended and Blessed <\/em>event.\n\nAgain, it\u2019s Saturday, April 27<sup>th<\/sup>. Information\u2019s available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. You do have to be registered to tune in, so go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on how to register for the <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em> one-day event.\n\nAs always, we want to take a minute and say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to the people who have made today\u2019s program possible. If you have benefitted from the conversation you\u2019ve been listening to today, here\u2019s who to thank\u2014thank the people who make this program possible, either as monthly Legacy Partners, who support this work, or those of you who donate from time to time. It\u2019s your financial support that is the lifeblood of this ministry, and we\u2019re so grateful to be able to partner with you to bring this kind of practical biblical help and hope to couples and families in your community and all around the world.\n\nThanks to those of you who have made today\u2019s program possible. If you\u2019re a regular listener and you\u2019ve never donated, we\u2019d love to have you be part of the team that helps expand the reach of this ministry\u2014helps us reach more people, more regularly, with this kind of helpful information. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY. We\u2019re grateful for whatever you can do to be part of this growing work.\n\nAnd before we wrap things up here today, the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, is here with some thoughts about the conversation we\u2019ve been having today. David\u2014\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>Hey, Bob. I think conversations like this are so important in our day, and I\u2019m so grateful for Ron and the leadership he gives to FamilyLife Blended. Yes; I just want to share why I think it\u2019s so important, and I hope that you\u2019ll notice more and more conversations like this happening to keep growing our understanding and compassion for different types of families.\n\nI want to be clear\u2014I\u2019m not abandoning or backing away from the traditional notion of family, but I do want to expand our thoughts on how we journey alongside all families in the body of Christ.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>Jesus was from a blended family, and 40 percent of married couples with children in the U.S. are blended families today. As a parent of biological children, I can be unaware of the unique challenges that are facing blended families. We want every family to experience God\u2019s riches through the resources of FamilyLife and to be a blessing to others, so that Jesus can be more and more known in the world.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s why we say, \u201cEvery home a godly home.\u201d\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>\u2014\u201ca godly home\u201d; yes. God offers to show up in every home, and we want to help be a part of that. So let\u2019s move toward others in community. Let\u2019s <em>learn<\/em> people\u2019s unique stories. Let\u2019s <em>learn<\/em> what is unique about their families, and let\u2019s <em>serve<\/em> one another in love and the power of the Spirit.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s good. Thank you.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about a new verb that has entered the vocabulary of the nation; in fact, it\u2019s become quite a hashtag. It\u2019s the verb, \u201cadulting.\u201d It\u2019s what young people do to grow up and embrace adult responsibilities. Josh Burnette and Pete Hardesty will be here to take us through Adulting 101 tomorrow, and I hope you can tune in for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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Dave and Ann Wilson talk to Ron Deal about the impact divorce can have on a person's life. The Wilsons share how the divorce impacted Dave's ability to resolve conflict in a healthy way.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-03-19.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When a child grows up in a home where mom and dad have gotten a divorce, that experience will follow him into his own marriage. That was the case for Dave Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I had no idea how the past was coming like a bag of luggage into my marriage; Ann had no idea, so that\u2014she\u2019s a strong woman; and she was pushing, and I was leaving\u2014you know, whether I went to another room or, literally, just emotionally shut down\u2014again, not connecting any of these dots. It took <em>years<\/em>. We connected them, eventually; but that\u2019s where we started.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, March 19<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. Dave and Ann talk today about how their marriage was impacted by the fact that Dave grew up in a home where mom and dad got a divorce. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I just have to say\u2014you got pretty transparent this week, and you\u2019re <em>always<\/em> transparent\u2014I mean, that\u2019s just who both of you are. You are kind of: \u201cHere\u2019s who we are\u2014not hiding anything,\u201d people; right?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; but this conversation\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This was a little different.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014on a counseling couch. Can I get up now? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No; no!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You guys have me laying here\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>This is good stuff. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Ann is <em>loving<\/em> this. I don\u2019t know\u2014this is crazy.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have Ron Deal joining us this week. Ron, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ron gives leadership to FamilyLife Blended<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. He is giving leadership to an event that\u2019s taking place in three or four weeks\u2014it\u2019s Saturday, April 27<sup>th<\/sup>. It\u2019s a nationwide\/actually, a worldwide simulcast of an event that\u2019s going to be hosted in Minnesota. This is the <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> event, and it\u2019s designed for who?\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s designed for couples in blended families; also appropriate for dating couples, who have kids. We would <em>love<\/em> for pastors, and youth leaders, and people who just want to understand blended families a little better to be a part of it as well; but it\u2019s an enrichment day for couples in blended families.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And folks who live in the Minneapolis area are invited to attend the live event; but folks all around the world\u2014on their cell phones, on their laptops, in their living rooms, in local churches\u2014can connect to the <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em> event. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to find out how you can connect or how you can be a host church for this event. You have a lineup of speakers that include\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014our very own!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014the new hosts of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Dave and Ann Wilson. As we\u2019ve already heard this week, part of the reason for that is because Dave\u2019s story\/your story is an all-too-typical story of the American family in our day.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>More and more, this is what young people are experiencing as families dissolve and disintegrate.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>You know, one of the things I want to say to people, who are listening that know and love somebody in a blended family\u2014or perhaps you\u2019re in a blended family\u2014Dave\u2019s experience won\u2019t be <em>exactly<\/em> like every kid, who has a stepparent or has divorced parents, but there will be some themes that I think people can find in common.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me just do a recap of where we\u2019ve been already. Christmas Eve, when you were seven years old, Dave, the family went to church; came home\u2014more presents than you\u2019d ever seen. You opened them up on Christmas Eve, which was not the normal practice. You wake up the next morning; and your mom says, \u201cDad\u2019s gone.\u201d You didn\u2019t know what that meant, but what that meant was the divorce was final. He had moved out.\n\nYou and your family, eventually, relocated to Ohio. Your relationship with your dad was pretty sporadic and strained\u2014and all kinds of emotions that you were processing as you were going through all of that\u2014we\u2019ve had that conversation. In fact, Ron\u2014because you have been doing counseling for decades\u2014this felt a little bit like you [Dave] said\u2014you were on the couch, and it\u2019s been a counseling session.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; how am I doing, Ron?\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; you\u2019re doing great.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Doing okay?\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Alright. Can we end this now? Do we have to keep talking? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Well, unfortunately, we always have to figure out how the past is affecting the present; so\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; oh, there\u2019s no effects.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>No residue?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Okay; good.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Just ask my wife; she\u2019ll tell you. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>That\u2019s why we brought her here\u2014to keep you honest. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>You know, one of the things that\u2019s interesting is\u2014that we haven\u2019t talked about yet\u2014is just how you coped with all this. I mean, I\u2019ve heard you, in the past, in different venues, say different things; so let me just toss a couple of words at you.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Okay.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I\u2019m not exactly sure that these are right, and you can comment on those.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Alright.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I heard you say you were jealous of your dad\u2019s new wife; and she had a son, I believe, so you had stepbrother.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I had a stepbrother.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Okay; so a little jealous of how dad spent time and invested in them\u2014his new family\u2014and not in you.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>It made it hard for you to move toward them; so part of your coping was to just withdraw, and retreat, and stay away.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, definitely; I stayed away. I really lived in a little cocoon with my mom, up in Ohio. My dad would come in every once in a while. I didn\u2019t want to go down and see them, now, in Miami. Again, I was so sad; and felt betrayed and abandoned.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I did\u2014it was sort of mandated I go see them\u2014I\u2019m glad I did now, but it wasn\u2019t something I looked forward to.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>So let\u2019s connect some dots. When you feel abandoned, and hurt, and betrayed\u2014and you\u2019re worried about your mother and you\u2019re concerned about her\u2014you retreat from some people; you move toward other people; in this case, your mom, to kind of protect and honor that relationship.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And I would say, too, Ron\u2014like Dave had a full life and became really obsessed, a little bit, with sports. He was <em>good<\/em> at it.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>He threw himself into that.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Is that possible?\u2014to be obsessed with sports?\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think so! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, it wasn\u2019t an obsession.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Okay; so now, we\u2019re doing a program on denial. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and idolatry, it sounds like.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know what you guys are talking about! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>This is so good!\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Alright; so yes, perfectionism\u2014not necessarily perfect\u2014but <em>excelling<\/em> at something that gives you worth\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014like, \u201cI can\u2019t get it over here\u2014this is a mess; that\u2019s confusing\u2014but man, I can do this; and I can be really good and matter.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did it make you mad that your dad didn\u2019t come to your games?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I can remember when he showed up\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014in college.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014at a college football game, and he hadn\u2019t been there. He shows up\u2014I didn\u2019t even know he was coming. I walk out of the locker room and there he is, with my mom. I can remember\u2014I can see it in my mind\u2019s eye right now\u2014walking out of the locker room, like, \u201cWhat are you doing here?\u201d I didn\u2019t say that to him\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t want you here,\u201d\u2014but I immediately went to, \u201cOh, now, you\u2019re going to show...\u201d I connected all the dots: \u201cYou\u2019re here because, now, you\u2019re reading about me; and you\u2019re thinking I\u2019m going to be possibly making you some money, playing after college\u201d; so I was mad.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I can\u2019t imagine that you <em>weren\u2019t<\/em> resentful; I mean, you had to be.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, <em>totally resentful<\/em>. I covered it up\u2014I was your, you know, all-American quarterback-type kid\u2014you know, trying to put on the fa\u00e7ade.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Did you pull away from him? Did you kind of distance yourself, like, \u201cI\u2019m not going to let you have the satisfaction of getting my love and affection\u201d?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Totally.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We had a relationship, but we didn\u2019t have a relationship.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>So this is where we turn to Ann.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Good!\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>We\u2019ve noticed some themes in Dave\u2019s life, and understandably so, you know:\n\nWhen you get hurt and abandoned\/rejected\u2014keep your loyalties tight, where it\u2019s good, and be distant where it\u2019s not good.\n\nIn moments of distress, pull away\/back up.\n\nExcel at something\u2014have something you\u2019re really good at and throw yourself, 100 percent, into that thing and do it <em>great<\/em>\u2014because that\u2019s part of giving you identity and meaning\/purpose in life.\n\nDid any of that carry over into your marriage?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; I think the biggest repercussion was the ability to resolve conflict in our relationship. I was 19 when we got married; Dave was 22, so we weren\u2019t thinking about our past. We weren\u2019t thinking all these things would affect our present; and yet, we would have our fights; and he would leave. That wasn\u2019t my style\u2014I grew up in a family that\u2014we would talk about everything\u2014even yell at each other\u2014but still feel secure in the love, so we would talk about everything.\n\nWhen Dave walked out of the room, it would make me furious, not thinking\/not even having the thought, \u201cWell, of course, he would leave and withdraw; because conflict is a bad thing to him.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, I\u2019m not even connecting those dots. She would follow me into the kitchen\u2014wherever\u2014and say, \u201cWe have to talk,\u201d and I\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Which probably just made it worse.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014worse.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, I\u2019d be like: \u201cGet out of here. What are we doing?\u201d; because, now, I know I had this belief about conflict: \u201cIt\u2019s bad You avoid it at all costs.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cIt ended in divorce.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I remember sitting on this bed. He left, and he went upstairs. He closed the bedroom door, and he sat on the bed. I knock open the bedroom door, and I sit right beside him. I put my hand on his leg, and I looked at him and said, \u201cWe just need to talk.\u201d\u00a0 He said: \u201cWhat are you doing? Get out of here!\u201d I didn\u2019t know what to do!\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; so there\u2019s a mechanism in him that he grew up doing a lot of, so of course he just continued to do that; and that is\u2014in the face of distress, and conflict, and a really hard situation\u2014you just withdraw; you pull away; you retreat; you go back to where it\u2019s safe. It wasn\u2019t safe to be <em>with<\/em> you in the conflict; so of course, he would retreat.\n\nBut I can totally see how, from your point of view: \u201cFamily\u2014we stay engaged. We talk this out. Even if it\u2019s hard, we stay.\u201d That must have meant that \u201cHe doesn\u2019t love me,\u201d or something. Now, you said a minute ago, \u201cI would get furious.\u201d I\u2019m wondering if you were really afraid: \u201cHe\u2019s leaving.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>To be truthful, I wasn\u2019t afraid he would leave; but I think I disrespected it. I thought, \u201cWhat kind of a man leaves?\u201d To me, it appeared to be weakness, which\u2014think about how that relayed to Dave. What a horrible thing for me to relay to him, \u201cI think you\u2019re weak,\u201d which made him withdraw even more.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Exactly; so if he\u2019s weak, what\u2019s the follow-up to that? If he\u2019s weak, then what?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Hey, I like it; you\u2019re getting counseling now! [Laughter] This is sort of fun.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Turnaround\u2019s fair play.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019m not sure what I think of that. If he\u2019s weak, maybe it means I have to become strong: \u201cWho will be the strong one in the family? How will he <em>lead<\/em> <em>me<\/em>? How will he lead <em>us<\/em>?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u201cWe\u2019re not safe and secure if he\u2019s weak,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014there\u2019s the fear; see. There\u2019s this huge, looming thing that says: \u201cOh no; this is going to get bad; this is going to get worse. I don\u2019t know how we\u2019re going to be safe and secure. I have to get mad, so he won\u2019t be that way anymore.\u201d Furious is how it came out, but fear is what was underneath it.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You\u2019re right, and I think I would push his buttons to get a reaction. Anything was better than silence.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014to try to get him to not be weak.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Isn\u2019t that ironic?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And that worked really well, Ron.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Did it?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I bet it did.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No; it did not go well. You know, we\u2019ve shared how hard our first year was in marriage many times\u2014it\u2019s in our marriage book. I had no idea how the past was coming, like a bag of luggage into my marriage; Ann had no idea. She\u2019s a strong woman, and she was pushing; and I was leaving\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014whether I went to another room or, literally, just emotionally shut down\u2014again, not connecting any of these dots. It took <em>years<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We connected them, eventually; but that\u2019s where we started.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; this is why, Bob, I always say: \u201cYou\u2019re always working on your marriage, because God is always using your marriage to work on you.\u201d You know, there\u2019s so much about ourselves we don\u2019t know until marriage forces us to look below the surface and to wrestle with the deep, deep stuff.\n\nI know we have listeners, right now, going: \u201cOh my word; that\u2019s us! I get furious, but I\u2019m really fearful of something?\u2014what is that?\u201d They\u2019re doing self-examination in a <em>really<\/em> healthy way. That\u2019s what God wants\u2014is to mature us <em>through<\/em> our marriages. Of course, if we leave\u2014of course, if we stop\u2014if we abandon, or divorce, or just check out\u2014we never do the hard work; but when we do, we end up in a totally different place. So let\u2019s have fun with this\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Is this fun, Ron?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was going to say: \u201cIs this fun?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>This is great! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s fun for Ron.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Let me ask the two of you to talk to that younger self\u2014that 19-, 20-, 22-year-old person\u2014who all they knew to do was get furious \/ all they knew to do was retreat, but they had no idea why. If you could coach them, what would you say to that younger self?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>What I know now I wish that I\u2019d known then; and it is this: \u201cYou are loved. You are, actually, secure, even if it\u2019s only your mom\u2019s love you can feel at this point or see tangibly. It\u2019s real,\u201d and \u201cThere\u2019s a heavenly Father that\u2019s there, even though your earthly father\u2014you can\u2019t see it or feel it.\u201d I didn\u2019t know that then\u2014I wish I\u2019d have known it then.\n\nAnd \u201cYou don\u2019t have to become your dad.\u201d In many ways, my withdrawal\u2014even that I brought into my marriage\u2014was a copy of the sins of the father. The man I don\u2019t want to become\u2014I\u2019m becoming in many different ways. That could have been avoided if I had known I was truly, truly loved; but I just didn\u2019t know it.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>That would have given you a source to hold onto.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, a foundation.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>A foundation\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014to help you, perhaps, calm down in the midst of all that chaos, and anger, and conflict with Ann\u2014and stay engaged rather than retreat, like Dad did.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think I would have\u2014if I was sitting across from me, I would have reminded myself that marriage is this beautiful agony. It\u2019s beautiful in the fact that you learn how to love someone unconditionally, and that doesn\u2019t come naturally or easily. The agony is\u2014it\u2019s a mirror, and it\u2019s showing you your weaknesses and flaws.\n\nI think, before I got married, I would have never thought that I would be an angry person and I would ever yell. She was always deep down there\u2014it was just the pressure of marriage exposed it. So, I think I would have told myself: \u201cBe patient and don\u2019t be surprised,\u201d\u2014and here\u2019s the biggest thing\u2014\u201cDon\u2019t expect Dave to meet all of my needs, and don\u2019t expect Dave to be just like you.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s beautiful\u2014the way God made Dave\u2014and us having to figure out this whole conflict resolution pattern became one of the <em>best<\/em> things in our marriage. So I would say: \u201cTake your time. Don\u2019t be surprised at the baggage you\u2019re going to discover, but be looking; and then, go to God and say: \u201cGod, I can\u2019t do this. Give me wisdom.\u201d James 1 says, \u201cIf any you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, and He gives generously to anyone who asks.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, here\u2019s a question I have, listening to this. Everybody, who gets married, brings bags into their marriage; right?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We all have a past, and our past comes with us into our marriage. \u201cIf you\u2019re coming into marriage, and your childhood experience was a broken family\u2014mom and dad split\u2014is there anything that we can say, \u2018It\u2019s likely that, in the bag you\u2019re bringing into marriage, there is fear,\u2019 \u2018\u2026there is insecurity,\u2019? Are there some common factors that are going to accompany those?\u201d\n\nI married a woman, whose parents got divorced. I don\u2019t know that we ever stopped to think about, \u201cOh, I wonder what\u2019s unique about your experience.\u201d I do know that, in our dating relationship, I learned pretty quickly that Mary Ann had, as a presupposition: \u201cMen can\u2019t be trusted. I can\u2019t trust Bob; because, in general, men can\u2019t be trusted.\u201d\n\nAre there things like that that a couple today\u2014they\u2019re getting married\u2014and one or both of them are from a family that mom and dad split up\u2014are there things that you would say, \u201cYou ought to expect that this is in the suitcases you\u2019re bringing with you\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>You know, I want to say, \u201cYes,\u201d and \u201cNo\u201d; so let me explain. \u201cYes,\u201d\u2014like in this booklet, \u201cLife in a Blender\u201d, that we\u2019ve written for kids\u2014there\u2019s those common emotions that we\u2019ve talked about with Dave: loss, sadness, fear, guilt, confusion. Those are predictable, to some degree.\n\nAt the same time, the answer is \u201cNo,\u201d because every one of our childhood experiences leads us to certain bruises on our heart\u2014certain emotions that tap those bruises and set us off. It\u2019s what we do with the bruise that is unique and different. It\u2019s <em>that<\/em> mechanism that we have to analyze, in terms of how we carry that in our own marriages.\n\nFor me, when I feel attacked, I withdraw; and I don\u2019t just withdraw to step away\/to find safety\u2014that\u2019s part of it\u2014but it\u2019s also to let my wife know that she\u2019s out of line. [Laughter] So I\u2019m making a statement with my withdrawal; right?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It took me 20 years to learn that!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ann just laughed a little too much. [Laughter] You could relate to that?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I can\u2019t relate; I just think that\u2019s <em>funny<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; oh, she can relate. She\u2019s the violator. [Laughter] She has done that for <em>years<\/em> to me. Come on, what are you talking about? [Laughter] How about denial; right there? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I admit; I am so messed up. There are so many things I have\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, I\u2019ve done it to her; she\u2019s\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Ron, I think I need to meet with you every day. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>So, I\u2019m coming back to what Ann just said a minute ago: \u201cMarriage is a beautiful agony.\u201d The <em>agony<\/em> is: \u201cI have to deal with me\u2014my pride, my blind spots, my past\u2014my mechanisms of how I cope and respond to distressful situations in my life.\u201d\n\nWhat we want to do in marriage is marry somebody that just brings out the joy, and the happiness, and the great things in us. The odd thing about marriage\u2014again, we\u2019re always going to be working on our marriage, because God is always using it to work on us\u2014He will constantly reveal in us another piece of the flesh that needs to die. If I\u2019m open and willing to look in the mirror and be taught, then I will grow and I will mature; and I will connect those dots.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s true in every marriage, whether you come from a broken background\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014or from an intact family\u2014whatever it is. We bring our patterns, our habits, our flesh\u2014we bring our sin patterns into the marriage. Marriage is a great tool that God uses to bring those to the surface so those can be dealt with.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And when we get those dealt with, then we have kids. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>New things come to the surface.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>May God bless them.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you know what? When the kids leave, new things come to the surface.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, it\u2019s just the ongoing\u2014this is God\u2019s refining\/sanctifying work in our lives.\n\nYou and David Olson wrote a book called <em>The Smart Stepfamily Marriage<\/em> that is designed for couples to think through some of these issues that they\u2019re bringing to bear and to navigate the, sometimes, choppy waters of a new marriage if you\u2019re stepping into a stepfamily.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>It is a marriage enrichment guide for couples in blended families\u2014includes an online profile that gives you insight into yourself; so you can begin the agony journey, whether you want to or not, and really grow and mature your relationship.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is less for people [in a first-time marriage] who come from a broken family; but if you are starting a blended or a stepfamily, this would be a good book for a husband and wife to go through together\u2014learn some things about each other and, with a lot of grace for each other, say: \u201cOh, okay; I didn\u2019t realize this. I didn\u2019t know about this. How do we work together to pursue God in our marriage?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>And of course, we want them to move toward their children\u2014children and stepchildren. The \u201cLife in a Blender\u201d booklet helps you do that. It helps put words on your child\u2019s experience for <em>them<\/em> and their benefit; but then, it also gives <em>you<\/em> a guide to help you engage them in dialogue around what they\u2019re feeling and experiencing in your family.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have both resources in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center: \u201cLife in a Blender\u201d for parents of kids; or grandparents of kids; or aunts and uncles, friends, youth pastors. If you know a young person, who comes from a blended family, go through this little book with them and help them identify the emotions that are attached to their experience.\n\nAnd then, if you\u2019re starting a blended marriage, get a copy of Ron\u2019s book, <em>The Smart Stepfamily Marriage<\/em>. It\u2019ll help you be prepared for some of the things that are just around the corner for you, and there\u2019s a good path for you to be on so you can build a strong marriage. You just need a little guidance; and Ron provides that for you in the book, <em>The Smart Stepfamily Marriage<\/em>. You\u2019ll find these resources, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nAnd then don\u2019t forget\u2014on Saturday, April 27<sup>th<\/sup>, in Minneapolis, Ron\u2014along with Dave and Ann Wilson, Shaunti Feldhahn, Chris Brooks, and others\u2014are going to be presenting a one-day event called <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em>. This is a live event in Minneapolis; it\u2019s going to be simulcast all around the world. You can be a part of the audience for this, either as a couple or with your small group or your church. There are all kinds of ways that you can plug in and benefit from this one-day <em>Blended and Blessed <\/em>event.\n\nAgain, it\u2019s Saturday, April 27<sup>th<\/sup>. Information\u2019s available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. You do have to be registered to tune in, so go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on how to register for the <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em> one-day event.\n\nAs always, we want to take a minute and say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to the people who have made today\u2019s program possible. If you have benefitted from the conversation you\u2019ve been listening to today, here\u2019s who to thank\u2014thank the people who make this program possible, either as monthly Legacy Partners, who support this work, or those of you who donate from time to time. It\u2019s your financial support that is the lifeblood of this ministry, and we\u2019re so grateful to be able to partner with you to bring this kind of practical biblical help and hope to couples and families in your community and all around the world.\n\nThanks to those of you who have made today\u2019s program possible. If you\u2019re a regular listener and you\u2019ve never donated, we\u2019d love to have you be part of the team that helps expand the reach of this ministry\u2014helps us reach more people, more regularly, with this kind of helpful information. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY. We\u2019re grateful for whatever you can do to be part of this growing work.\n\nAnd before we wrap things up here today, the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, is here with some thoughts about the conversation we\u2019ve been having today. David\u2014\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>Hey, Bob. I think conversations like this are so important in our day, and I\u2019m so grateful for Ron and the leadership he gives to FamilyLife Blended. Yes; I just want to share why I think it\u2019s so important, and I hope that you\u2019ll notice more and more conversations like this happening to keep growing our understanding and compassion for different types of families.\n\nI want to be clear\u2014I\u2019m not abandoning or backing away from the traditional notion of family, but I do want to expand our thoughts on how we journey alongside all families in the body of Christ.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>Jesus was from a blended family, and 40 percent of married couples with children in the U.S. are blended families today. As a parent of biological children, I can be unaware of the unique challenges that are facing blended families. We want every family to experience God\u2019s riches through the resources of FamilyLife and to be a blessing to others, so that Jesus can be more and more known in the world.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s why we say, \u201cEvery home a godly home.\u201d\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>\u2014\u201ca godly home\u201d; yes. God offers to show up in every home, and we want to help be a part of that. So let\u2019s move toward others in community. Let\u2019s <em>learn<\/em> people\u2019s unique stories. Let\u2019s <em>learn<\/em> what is unique about their families, and let\u2019s <em>serve<\/em> one another in love and the power of the Spirit.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s good. Thank you.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about a new verb that has entered the vocabulary of the nation; in fact, it\u2019s become quite a hashtag. It\u2019s the verb, \u201cadulting.\u201d It\u2019s what young people do to grow up and embrace adult responsibilities. Josh Burnette and Pete Hardesty will be here to take us through Adulting 101 tomorrow, and I hope you can tune in for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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