{"id":300089,"date":"2019-03-18T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-03-18T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-emotional-side-of-divorce\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:17","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:17","slug":"the-emotional-side-of-divorce","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-emotional-side-of-divorce\/","title":{"rendered":"The Emotional Side of Divorce"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Ron Deal | Series: Growing Up Blended | Pastor Dave Wilson and his wife, Ann, talk to Ron Deal, Director of FamilyLife Blended, about the hard realities of his parents&#8217; divorce when he was seven years old. Dave recalls his family&#8217;s last Christmas Eve together, when they arrived home from church to find Santa&#8217;s gifts waiting for them. The next morning, Dad was gone. Hear firsthand how divorce impacts a child.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dave and Ann Wilson talk to Ron Deal about the hard realities of his parents&#8217; divorce when he was seven years old. Hear firsthand how divorce impacts a child.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"Dave and Ann Wilson talk to Ron Deal about the hard realities of his parents&#039; divorce when he was seven years old.","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-03-18.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:47","filesize":"25.44M","filesize_raw":"26679707","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2830,2812,2894],"tags":[4153,4154],"podcast_series":[7178],"cwp_profile":[3300],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300089","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-children-of-divorce","category-realities-of-divorce","category-stepfamily-living","tag-broken-families","tag-kids-in-blended-families","podcast_series-growing-up-blended","cwp_profile-ron-deal","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300089\/the-emotional-side-of-divorce","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300089\/the-emotional-side-of-divorce","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"RTZz0gq5BN\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-emotional-side-of-divorce\/\">The Emotional Side of Divorce<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-emotional-side-of-divorce\/embed\/#?secret=RTZz0gq5BN\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Emotional Side of Divorce&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"RTZz0gq5BN\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-03-18.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-03-18.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dave Wilson remembers having a very strained relationship with his father once his parents got a divorce.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When he would come up, it would usually get ugly\u2014he would drink; he would get loud. I\u2019d go hide in the bedroom\u2014wait until it was over\u2014until the storm cleared. That was my experience with my dad. I remember that in middle school; then high school. And then, I <em>hated<\/em> this\u2014right after the divorce\u2014seven, eight, nine years old\u2014I, for whatever reason, had to go see my dad at Christmas. I would fly to Miami, Florida, on Christmas morning.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, March 18<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. Growing up in a home where mom and dad divorce will have a lot of ramifications for how we relate to one another as we get older. We\u2019ll hear more about that from Dave Wilson today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Monday edition. Well, you guys have not been at this all that long; but it\u2019s become very clear that\u2014at least, with you, Dave\u2014you need a counseling session. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s never Ann; is it?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Has my wife been talking to you, Bob? Ann?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m <em>very<\/em> excited about this session. It is going to be a counseling session. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is <em>not<\/em> going to be a counseling session\u2014I don\u2019t do that! I\u2019ve already done that actually. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you have done it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m all good. I\u2019m perfect now.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But there\u2019s ways more, honey\u2014ways more.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Oh, I love this dynamic.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think this is an intervention. That\u2019s what this is.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what it is\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> It\u2019s an ambush.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014we have got our friend, Ron Deal, who is joining us today. Welcome, Ron.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you. It\u2019s good to be here.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ron gives leadership to FamilyLife Blended<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> and is pretty excited about what\u2019s coming up here in three or four weeks\u2014the <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> event that\u2019s going to be taking place?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> It\u2019s our annual livestream event that can be viewed from <em>anywhere<\/em> in the world, which is <em>amazing<\/em>. Think about it\u2014all day: music, worship, speakers\u2014topics specifically addressing marriage and parenting in the blended family. Our theme, by the way, is going to be \u201cKeeping in Step with the Spirit\u201d\u2014a little pun there: \u201ckeeping in Step\u201d\u2014talking about the fruits of the Spirit and how we <em>live<\/em> that out in a blended family.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This takes place\u2014it originates in Minneapolis; but churches, and living rooms, and\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014cell phones,\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and personal computers\u2014all around the world, people are going to be watching this.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Very easy to be a part of that. Your church can host it for a nominal fee. You can watch it for even less, as an individual couple. You can have couples in your living room if you want\u2014lots of ways to participate.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So go to FamilyLifeToday.com if you want more information about the upcoming <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em> event. What\u2019s the date?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> April 27<sup>th<\/sup>, Saturday.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Saturday, April 27<sup>th<\/sup>. Again, information\u2019s available at FamilyLifeToday.com. You guys are going to be speaking; and part of the reason you\u2019re speaking at this event is because, Dave, this is a part of your history.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is a big part of my history. It\u2019s actually something I haven\u2019t talked a lot about. That\u2019s why Ann\u2019s so excited to dig into this. [Laughter] But yes, it\u2019s\u2014you know, when I was seven years old, my family sort of blew up; and that\u2019s where it all started.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> You know, I want to tell our listeners the reason we\u2019re spending time talking about this is because Dave doesn\u2019t have a unique experience. Currently, right now in the U.S., ten to twenty percent of children have a stepparent. About one-third of all kids will have a stepparent before they turn age 18. This is not a unique experience; it\u2019s a very common experience.\n\nOne of the things we like to do is help raise the awareness of parents\/of stepparents\u2014but also friends, family, grandparents\u2014people who love and care for somebody in a blended family situation so that <em>you<\/em> can become more aware of how to help\/how to encourage someone in a stepfamily. We appreciate Dave\u2019s willingness to talk about this.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me, too; I\u2019m appreciating this too. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Let\u2019s just start with a story a little bit. You mentioned, I think, it was, when you were seven, your mom and dad split up.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, it was interesting; you know, it\u2019s the early \u201860s\u2014back then, I honestly don\u2019t remember a divorced family. I know, at my elementary school, I was the only kid in the classroom\u201435 kids\u2014with not a dad at home. Different day today, but that was very unique. We lived in New Jersey at the time\u2014I was born there. My dad was an airline pilot with Eastern Airlines. Anybody old enough in this room to remember Eastern? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I do remember that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Exactly; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; it was interesting\u2014at that time, even though I was very young, I didn\u2019t appreciate it; but we were sort of a wealthy family. He actually built homes on the side in a gated community in New Jersey. I grew up sort of in a big house with two older brothers and a sister. They were actually ten to twelve to fourteen years older than me and then a little brother about a year-and-a-half younger than me. You know, at that time, you would have looked at our family\u2014the Wilsons were like the perfect American family.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> From the outside, looked really good.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really, really good\u2014wealthy and nice home; and again, gated community. It looked just like a perfect marriage. I actually sort of <em>thought<\/em> that, as a little kid.\n\nIt's interesting\u2014I actually blocked a lot of this out. It\u2019s hard, sometimes, to even remember; but I do remember fights\/yelling\u2014a lot of alcohol. I remember my brothers taking me and my sister away from the family room, upstairs, to get away from the fights between Mom and Dad.\n\nMy dad was a drinker. He wasn\u2019t a happy drunk\u2014he was a mean\u2014sort of would get out of control. That\u2019s what I remember, as a little boy.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> You mentioned, from the outside, your family looked really good. I wonder\u2014sometimes, children\u2019s experience of their family, prior to a divorce\/a break up is, \u201cYes; we\u2019re really good.\u201d You remember some hard things\u2014some fights\u2014but looking back, are you one of those kids?\u2014like you just didn\u2019t see it coming.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, I did not see it coming. In fact, the night it happened was Christmas Eve. The whole family went to church. We all come back to the house\u2014again, big house. We walk in; and while we were gone, Santa had shown up. The <em>entire<\/em> family room was just presents everywhere\u2014more presents than I had ever seen in my life. We were told, \u201cOpen them tonight, not tomorrow; tonight.\u201d\n\nOf course, a little five-\/six-\/seven-year-old kid is just ripping things apart. Every gift I could have ever imagined\u2014we got that year. You can imagine why; I didn\u2019t know. The next morning, Christmas day, I woke up; Dad was gone. It was his last hurrah or sort of \u201cSee you later.\u201d Of course, we woke up Christmas morning; and I can remember sort of asking my mom, \u201cWhere\u2019s Dad?\u201d That\u2019s when she said, \u201cWell, he\u2019s gone.\u201d Of course, I didn\u2019t know <em>forever<\/em>; but eventually, I realized\u2014and my little brother\u2014\u201cHe\u2019s <em>gone<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 We didn\u2019t really know what the word, \u201cdivorce,\u201d meant; but eventually, that\u2019s what it ended up being: \u201cWe\u2019re without a dad.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Do you remember any particular emotions at that point in time? Now, I know you\u2019re still making sense of it. You\u2019re seven, and it\u2019s hard sometimes to make sense of things when you\u2019re that age; but looking back, do you remember any particular emotions that stood out?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Again, a lot of it I don\u2019t remember. I didn\u2019t get angry; I was discouraged. I just remember thinking, in one way: \u201cWell, he\u2019ll be back. He\u2019s not gone-gone.\u201d But I do remember, over time, he didn\u2019t come back; he didn\u2019t come back. When he did, it was pop in; pop out. I can remember fights again. It was not a fun moment when he would come in. I also remember he didn\u2019t seem to pay any attention to me and Craig. He was there to talk to my mom, whatever, and go.\n\nThey were still, obviously\u2014now, I know they\u2019re still working through the details of what this was going to look like\u2014but he was off, and I found out later he was off with girlfriends. He had mistresses. I didn\u2019t know until I was probably 28. My sister told me, \u201cI don\u2019t know if you know this, but Dad used to take you and Craig on vacations with his girlfriends when he was still married to Mom.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat are you talking\u2026\u201d I didn\u2019t remember any of that, but we would go on trips with Dad\u2019s mistresses.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Just real quickly\u2014fast forward to 28\/30 years of age\u2014you find out there\u2019s <em>more<\/em> to the betrayal.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, found out a lot more.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s interesting, Ron, too\u2014that I think is one of the pieces that Dave didn\u2019t mention\u2014was something that happened to his brother very soon after the divorce.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; well, the short story was my mom now is a single mom.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She\u2019s like, \u201cHow am I going to rebuild my life?\u201d My two brothers and older sister were off to college and beyond\u2014they were that much older. It was really Mom and myself and Craig. We moved to Ohio. Why Ohio?\u2014that\u2019s where her parents lived. We moved to get help and start a new life. That\u2019s traumatic. I had a dog I loved\u2014a German shepherd named Sarge\u2014somehow, he didn\u2019t make it to Ohio.\n\nAgain, I lose my dad\/lose the marriage and then probably\u2014I don\u2019t know exact timeline\u2014three to four months later, we find out Craig has leukemia. Within six weeks, he dies. There\u2019s no bone marrow transplants back then. It was very quick and, obviously, traumatic as I walked through the divorce; the move; and now; my best friend\/my little brother is gone.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Okay; so let me just recap what I\u2019m hearing.\n\nBy the way, Bob, I\u2019ll just mention that we have a resource at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> called \u201cLife in a Blender.\u201d It\u2019s written for children who are living in a stepfamily to help them make sense of their life and some of the things that they experience. One of the things that we talk about are the big five emotions\u2014loss and sadness are two of those.\n\nLet\u2019s just recap this story that we have so far. Life was one thing prior to Dad leaving; but once he left and the divorce took place, it was a cascade of loss for you\u2014a different home; different family income level; mom and dad are not together; when dad\u2019s back, he\u2019s not really tuning into you\u2014you\u2019ve lost him even when he\u2019s there. There\u2019s confusion and discouragement: move to a new place, lose your dog in the process, and then a <em>huge<\/em> loss for the family is the loss of your younger brother.\n\nI\u2019m just sitting here, taking that in from <em>your<\/em> vantage point. I\u2019m listening to all the transition and the pain that goes along with that and how heavy that is. I\u2019m also aware that your mother, whom is the primary care giver for you at that point in time, has gone through <em>tremendous<\/em>, tremendous loss herself. I have lost a child; so I know what that is to be in her shoes, losing her child. To have that on top of the loss of her marriage; loss of her family; loss of position, friends, place of work\u2014all the stuff that\u2019s wrapped into that\u2014I can\u2019t imagine how your mom functioned.\n\nLet\u2019s go inside that a little for you. What was parenting like at that point in your life? What was your relationship with your mom? How did that morph and change? How did you guys <em>survive<\/em> all of this together?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, my mom was everything\u2014clung to her. We only had each other at that point after Craigy was gone\u2014yes; loved her dearly. She\u2014I always felt loved by her. She was my biggest cheerleader my whole life.\n\nBut I can remember\u2014even as I hit ten, and twelve, and thirteen\u2014just watching the sadness. She was very lonely. I wanted to be there for her\/wanted to help her. I remember, constantly, she would say, \u201cYou\u2019re the man of the house.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m twelve, and\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I\u2019m like, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be the man of the house!\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014but I had to be.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> What do you mean: \u201c\u2026had to be\u201d? Unpack that for me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean\u2014there was <em>nobody<\/em> else there; there was no other man. She dated a little bit, but nobody really walked into our life.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> So there\u2019s a strong sense of obligation and responsibility in you?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Not necessarily something you really chose or would have chosen; but yet, you knew if you didn\u2019t to it\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Let\u2019s paint that scenario for a second; because sometimes, that\u2019s helpful to even understand how you end up making some of the choices you made, as a kid\u2014like, \u201cWhat if I don\u2019t do this for Mom?\u201d\u2014what would have happened?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I really felt like she needed me to be strong\u2014again, 13\/12.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As I went into middle school and high school, I <em>felt<\/em> like: \u201cShe\u2019s stable but [unstable],\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and \u201cI can\u2019t be [unstable].\u201d This really is a counselling session. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you think your relationship with her ever got unhealthy? Was she ever codependent? Was there ever a situation where she was counting on you for more than a mom ought to be counting on a 12-year-old for?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m wondering what my wife\u2019s thinking right now. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She just moved up to the microphone. I think she\u2019s got an answer for us.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t even look over there\u2014you noticed that? I didn\u2019t even want to see what she\u2019s going to say. [Laughter] I think I know what she\u2019s going to say.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; I think the answer to that would be, \u201cYes.\u201d I think she was so broken\u2014so lonely\/so hurting. I remember Dave\u2019s stepmom telling me\u2014this is interesting; just a side note\u2014that Dave went on the honeymoon of his dad and stepmom.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014to Europe.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>She said he couldn\u2019t sleep by himself. She realized that Dave had been sleeping with his mom. He was\u2014what 12?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I guess 12. You know\u2014sort of funny\u2014I didn\u2019t know my dad\u2019s on a <em>honeymoon<\/em> with his new wife. I just thought, \u201cWe\u2019re going on a trip.\u201d I found out, years later, because Beata\u2014that\u2019s my stepmother\u2014she was like, \u201cDo you realize that, on our honeymoon night, you came walking in our hotel room?\u201d I had a hotel room across the hall. Of course, we\u2019re in Europe; and I\u2019m scared anyway.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Any kid would be.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I go knocking on the door\u2014say, \u201cCan I sleep in here?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, it\u2019s sort of funny now; but that gives you an idea where I was\/where they were. Yes; I mean, I grew up\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There wasn\u2019t anything inappropriate that happened, sleeping with his mom.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>But it just represented: \u201cThat\u2019s what you were used to at that point in time.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> My comment about your mom is\u2014of course, there was this strong, deeply connected reliance on her son. I don\u2019t know how you survived that sort of loss\u2014that Mt. Kilimanjaro of loss\u2014without finding <em>something<\/em> you hold on to. Of course, that was the nature of your relationship. And of course, you felt a great sense of responsibility and obligation to her.\n\nI think, sometimes, it\u2019s easy for us to step outside people\u2019s lives and just judge that: \u201cWhat? You were sleeping\u2026\u201d \u201cSomehow, you were overly connected.\u201d That\u2019s a little bit of God\u2019s grace for people, sometimes, when you get behind it and you understand how much loss is in this story\u2014nobody wants <em>more<\/em> loss.\n\nThat\u2019s one of the things we know about kids in blended families is\u2014they don\u2019t want more loss. Yet, it seems that, sometimes, every little turn\/every little twist becomes a little bit more loss. You go with your dad and you find out that was him investing in somebody else\u2014not really investing in me\u2014like, \u201cI\u2019m there, but we\u2019re not connected.\u201d That\u2019s an ongoing narrative that gets in the way.\n\nI\u2019m curious about that\u2014your relationship with your dad through your adolescent years\u2014what was that like?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, it was pretty non-existent. He would fly up to Ohio\u2014and I don\u2019t know the exact timeline\u2014but I saw him maybe once or twice a year for a day. It would usually get ugly\u2014he would drink; it would get loud. I\u2019d go hide in the bedroom\u2014wait until it was over\u2014until the storm cleared. That was my experience with my dad. I remember that in middle school; then high school.\n\nThen, I <em>hated<\/em> this\u2014right after the divorce\u2014seven, eight, nine years old\u2014I, for whatever reason, had to go see my dad at Christmas\u2014I would fly to Miami, Florida. Now, he\u2019s in Miami\u2014flying out, on Christmas morning, by myself. Back then, <em>nobody<\/em> flew on Christmas Day. The flight attendants\u2014I could tell they felt sorry for me. They\u2019d let me sit in First Class\u2014nobody on the plane. They would be assigned to me\u2014to take care of this little boy, getting him to his dad\u2019s.\n\nI can <em>remember<\/em> getting in his car\u2014nice car\u2014rich\u2014you know, living the life, and looking at these palm trees, going: \u201cWhat am I doing here? I don\u2019t want to be here. I want to be home; I want to be in Ohio. I want to be at my home at Christmas, and I have to go see my dad for three or four days.\u201d It was a trip or two and, then, Christmas every other year.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I\u2019m hearing some of those other big five emotions: <em>confusion<\/em>\u2014like, \u201cHere I am; I <em>have<\/em> to do this, but I <em>don\u2019t<\/em> <em>want<\/em> to do this.\u201d Then, \u201cWhen I get here, I realize how much he has financially, etcetera; and I\u2019m aware.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you had nothing, back with your mom.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right; mom and I got <em>nothing<\/em>\u2014what a contrast. You know, again, it\u2019s because \u201cHe left us.\u201d There had to be some real anger or hurt towards him.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; one of the reasons I blocked having a relationship. I really think he wanted one, and he was doing what he could to do that. I mean, he wasn\u2019t there a lot; but when we were together, I could tell\u2014I really did have a sense: \u201cHe loves me. He really does love me. He want\u2019s good for me,\u201d\u2014almost a sense\u2014\u201cI think he feels bad about what happened.\u201d But we never talked about it. You know, through high school, through college, until we got married, <em>never<\/em> once was there a conversation with Dad about the divorce\/about any of that.\n\nThere were many with my mom. She wasn\u2019t a mean, bitter, \u201cYour dad\u2019s an idiot,\u201d-type mom\u2014she honored him\u2014but I was confused. I <em>never<\/em> really understood.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And no trust. You couldn\u2019t have trusted your dad; that\u2019s the reason there\u2019s no relationship. He left when you were seven.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What are you going to trust him with?\u2014with trying to have a relationship? No; that doesn\u2019t make any sense; right?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I\u2019m also wondering about, yes, loyalty to mom. I mean, how would you have felt if you had drawn close to your dad? Like, \u201cMom needs me. Mom\u2019s relying on me,\u201d\u2014like that would be, in a way, putting her in jeopardy.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Treasonous; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I also felt that when Dad got remarried. I felt like, \u201cI can\u2019t like her, because that\u2019s a\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014betrayal.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbetrayal to my mom.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014to your mom.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> My mom would ask, when I would come home, \u201cHow\u2019s Beata?\u201d I\u2019d be like. \u201cShe\u2019s okay.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t that interesting? All she had to do was ask\u2014what could be a very neutral question on the surface\u2014but it very much isn\u2019t neutral in your heart. Even if she\u2019s not really saying, \u201cDo you love her?\u201d\u00a0 You felt like she was saying, \u201cDo you love her?\u201d You\u2019re in this love conflict that\u2019s: \u201cMom needs me. She\u2019s got <em>nothing<\/em> but me, so I\u2019m definitely favoring here.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve touched on these five emotions you talk about. Just list them for us. What are the five?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> They\u2019re <em>loss<\/em>\u2014and the <em>sadness<\/em> that goes along with that loss\u2014right? Those are related.\n\n<em>Fear<\/em>\u2014and we\u2019ve heard that; we haven\u2019t talked about it yet\u2014but it\u2019s the fear of more loss. The fear of, in this case: \u201cThe fear of hurting mom if I enjoy my step mom,\u201d \u201cFear of hurting mom if I enjoy my dad and draw close to him.\u201d\n\n<em>Guilt<\/em>\u2014this sense of responsibility that you had toward your mom is one example of, \u201cBoy, I feel guilty if I <em>don\u2019t<\/em> fulfill that responsibility.\u201d It\u2019s going to change who I am, and how I act, and how I live my life.\n\nThen the <em>confusion<\/em> piece of: \u201cHow do I deal with all this? What does it mean? Why did Dad leave?\u201d \u201cWhat does this mean for me and the future of our family and relationships?\u201d It\u2019s a lot of confusion.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The booklet\u2014it\u2019s really a small book\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> It is.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s written for kids\u2014helps them unpack these emotions and put names to these emotions\u2014so they can go: \u201cOh, I\u2019m not abnormal because of these things I\u2019m feeling,\u201d and \u201cMaybe even I can understand what it is I\u2019m feeling and put some categories to it, rather than just feeling it.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> As a parent, Ron, is that our responsibility?\u2014to ask those questions? Is this a counseling situation?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I\u2019m so glad you brought that up, because there\u2019s a secondary purpose in this booklet. We actually have a parent discussion guide with it, so that parents are moving towards the heart of their child\/the experience of their child. We want to give the kids words to help them go, \u201cYes; that is what I\u2019m feeling.\u201d\n\nWe also want to help the parents say: \u201cIs that what you\u2019re feeling? Is this your experience?\u201d We give them a few questions\u2014the parents\u2014to ask their child after they read it so that you can move toward their heart. What we\u2019re doing here, today, with Dave is what we would <em>love<\/em> to see happen\u2014thousands of times around the world\u2014one parent towards their own child.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, if this would have been around when I was ten years old. Oh, my gosh; there was <em>nothing<\/em> like this!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; and I\u2019m thinking of\u2014and again, this would need to be appropriate\u2014but youth pastors, who could engage with kids in their youth group, or children\u2019s ministers, who would recognize this in their church. I\u2019m thinking of aunts or uncles or grandparents, who go: \u201cThat family dynamic is so dysfunctional. I don\u2019t know that that conversation could be had between parent and child in a healthy way.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The parents can be so\u2014they\u2019re hurting so much that, sometimes, they can\u2019t even get beyond today.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; to have somebody else, who\u2019s a friend or family member, step in and say, \u201cCould I just get together and pick your son up for ice cream?\u201d Get a book like this and start to go through it with that young man\/that young woman. We\u2019ve got the \u201cLife in a Blender\u201d book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go, online, to get a copy. The website is FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nAnd then, keep in mind the event that is coming up next month. It\u2019s the <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em> one-day live event. It\u2019s going to be live in Minneapolis on Saturday, April 27<sup>th<\/sup>. It\u2019s going to be livestreamed all around the world. You can tune in and be a part of this as a couple, as a church\/with your small group. All the information\u2019s available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Again, the date is Saturday, April 27<sup>th<\/sup>. Speakers will include Dave and Ann Wilson; Ron Deal; Shaunti Feldhahn\u2019s going to be joining us; Chris Brooks is going to be with us as well. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for all the information.\n\nCall us if you have any questions; or if you\u2019d like to get the \u201cLife in a Blender\u201d book, call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com. The number to call for resources or information about <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em> is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nLet me just add a quick word of thanks here for those of you who make programs like today\u2019s program possible. It\u2019s those of you who partner with us\u2014as either monthly Legacy Partners or who will, from time to time, make a donation to support the work of this ministry. When you donate, you\u2019re helping cover the cost of producing and syndicating this program so it can be heard in hundreds of communities across the country and via the internet all around the world. Thank you for your partnership on behalf of all of the people who are benefiting from listening to these kinds of conversations. We appreciate you.\n\nNow, before we wrap things up here today, we\u2019ve got some thoughts on our conversation from the President of FamilyLife, David Robbins. David\u2014\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Well, first of all, I just want to thank Dave Wilson for inviting us into his story, and telling his story, and sharing it with us; because it just declares how God makes beauty out of ashes. He is a God who\u2019s in the business of redemption. The Bible is a book about redemption. God, not only takes broken things in our lives and mends them, but He actually restores them into greater beauty\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014better than new.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> \u2014better than new.\n\nWhatever circumstance you find yourself going through in life\u2014specifically, today, some of us are probably walking through some hard things\u2014God is at work in the midst of it. Let\u2019s turn to Him.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; thank you.\n\nWell, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about the impact of growing up in a home where mom and dad get a divorce\u2014how that impacts a marriage, moving forward. We\u2019ll talk more with Dave and Ann Wilson about that tomorrow. Ron Deal will be with us again. I hope you can join us back as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\n<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":["Dave and Ann Wilson talk to Ron Deal about the hard realities of his parents&#039; divorce when he was seven years old."],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:47"],"show_notes":[""],"filesize":["25.44M"],"filesize_raw":["26679707"],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-300089.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-300089.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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and Ann Wilson talk to Ron Deal about the hard realities of his parents' divorce when he was seven years old. Hear firsthand how divorce impacts a child.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-03-18.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dave Wilson remembers having a very strained relationship with his father once his parents got a divorce.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When he would come up, it would usually get ugly\u2014he would drink; he would get loud. I\u2019d go hide in the bedroom\u2014wait until it was over\u2014until the storm cleared. That was my experience with my dad. I remember that in middle school; then high school. And then, I <em>hated<\/em> this\u2014right after the divorce\u2014seven, eight, nine years old\u2014I, for whatever reason, had to go see my dad at Christmas. I would fly to Miami, Florida, on Christmas morning.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, March 18<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. Growing up in a home where mom and dad divorce will have a lot of ramifications for how we relate to one another as we get older. We\u2019ll hear more about that from Dave Wilson today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Monday edition. Well, you guys have not been at this all that long; but it\u2019s become very clear that\u2014at least, with you, Dave\u2014you need a counseling session. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s never Ann; is it?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Has my wife been talking to you, Bob? Ann?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m <em>very<\/em> excited about this session. It is going to be a counseling session. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is <em>not<\/em> going to be a counseling session\u2014I don\u2019t do that! I\u2019ve already done that actually. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you have done it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m all good. I\u2019m perfect now.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But there\u2019s ways more, honey\u2014ways more.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Oh, I love this dynamic.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think this is an intervention. That\u2019s what this is.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what it is\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> It\u2019s an ambush.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014we have got our friend, Ron Deal, who is joining us today. Welcome, Ron.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you. It\u2019s good to be here.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ron gives leadership to FamilyLife Blended<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> and is pretty excited about what\u2019s coming up here in three or four weeks\u2014the <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> event that\u2019s going to be taking place?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> It\u2019s our annual livestream event that can be viewed from <em>anywhere<\/em> in the world, which is <em>amazing<\/em>. Think about it\u2014all day: music, worship, speakers\u2014topics specifically addressing marriage and parenting in the blended family. Our theme, by the way, is going to be \u201cKeeping in Step with the Spirit\u201d\u2014a little pun there: \u201ckeeping in Step\u201d\u2014talking about the fruits of the Spirit and how we <em>live<\/em> that out in a blended family.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This takes place\u2014it originates in Minneapolis; but churches, and living rooms, and\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014cell phones,\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and personal computers\u2014all around the world, people are going to be watching this.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Very easy to be a part of that. Your church can host it for a nominal fee. You can watch it for even less, as an individual couple. You can have couples in your living room if you want\u2014lots of ways to participate.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So go to FamilyLifeToday.com if you want more information about the upcoming <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em> event. What\u2019s the date?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> April 27<sup>th<\/sup>, Saturday.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Saturday, April 27<sup>th<\/sup>. Again, information\u2019s available at FamilyLifeToday.com. You guys are going to be speaking; and part of the reason you\u2019re speaking at this event is because, Dave, this is a part of your history.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is a big part of my history. It\u2019s actually something I haven\u2019t talked a lot about. That\u2019s why Ann\u2019s so excited to dig into this. [Laughter] But yes, it\u2019s\u2014you know, when I was seven years old, my family sort of blew up; and that\u2019s where it all started.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> You know, I want to tell our listeners the reason we\u2019re spending time talking about this is because Dave doesn\u2019t have a unique experience. Currently, right now in the U.S., ten to twenty percent of children have a stepparent. About one-third of all kids will have a stepparent before they turn age 18. This is not a unique experience; it\u2019s a very common experience.\n\nOne of the things we like to do is help raise the awareness of parents\/of stepparents\u2014but also friends, family, grandparents\u2014people who love and care for somebody in a blended family situation so that <em>you<\/em> can become more aware of how to help\/how to encourage someone in a stepfamily. We appreciate Dave\u2019s willingness to talk about this.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me, too; I\u2019m appreciating this too. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Let\u2019s just start with a story a little bit. You mentioned, I think, it was, when you were seven, your mom and dad split up.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, it was interesting; you know, it\u2019s the early \u201860s\u2014back then, I honestly don\u2019t remember a divorced family. I know, at my elementary school, I was the only kid in the classroom\u201435 kids\u2014with not a dad at home. Different day today, but that was very unique. We lived in New Jersey at the time\u2014I was born there. My dad was an airline pilot with Eastern Airlines. Anybody old enough in this room to remember Eastern? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I do remember that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Exactly; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; it was interesting\u2014at that time, even though I was very young, I didn\u2019t appreciate it; but we were sort of a wealthy family. He actually built homes on the side in a gated community in New Jersey. I grew up sort of in a big house with two older brothers and a sister. They were actually ten to twelve to fourteen years older than me and then a little brother about a year-and-a-half younger than me. You know, at that time, you would have looked at our family\u2014the Wilsons were like the perfect American family.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> From the outside, looked really good.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really, really good\u2014wealthy and nice home; and again, gated community. It looked just like a perfect marriage. I actually sort of <em>thought<\/em> that, as a little kid.\n\nIt's interesting\u2014I actually blocked a lot of this out. It\u2019s hard, sometimes, to even remember; but I do remember fights\/yelling\u2014a lot of alcohol. I remember my brothers taking me and my sister away from the family room, upstairs, to get away from the fights between Mom and Dad.\n\nMy dad was a drinker. He wasn\u2019t a happy drunk\u2014he was a mean\u2014sort of would get out of control. That\u2019s what I remember, as a little boy.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> You mentioned, from the outside, your family looked really good. I wonder\u2014sometimes, children\u2019s experience of their family, prior to a divorce\/a break up is, \u201cYes; we\u2019re really good.\u201d You remember some hard things\u2014some fights\u2014but looking back, are you one of those kids?\u2014like you just didn\u2019t see it coming.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, I did not see it coming. In fact, the night it happened was Christmas Eve. The whole family went to church. We all come back to the house\u2014again, big house. We walk in; and while we were gone, Santa had shown up. The <em>entire<\/em> family room was just presents everywhere\u2014more presents than I had ever seen in my life. We were told, \u201cOpen them tonight, not tomorrow; tonight.\u201d\n\nOf course, a little five-\/six-\/seven-year-old kid is just ripping things apart. Every gift I could have ever imagined\u2014we got that year. You can imagine why; I didn\u2019t know. The next morning, Christmas day, I woke up; Dad was gone. It was his last hurrah or sort of \u201cSee you later.\u201d Of course, we woke up Christmas morning; and I can remember sort of asking my mom, \u201cWhere\u2019s Dad?\u201d That\u2019s when she said, \u201cWell, he\u2019s gone.\u201d Of course, I didn\u2019t know <em>forever<\/em>; but eventually, I realized\u2014and my little brother\u2014\u201cHe\u2019s <em>gone<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 We didn\u2019t really know what the word, \u201cdivorce,\u201d meant; but eventually, that\u2019s what it ended up being: \u201cWe\u2019re without a dad.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Do you remember any particular emotions at that point in time? Now, I know you\u2019re still making sense of it. You\u2019re seven, and it\u2019s hard sometimes to make sense of things when you\u2019re that age; but looking back, do you remember any particular emotions that stood out?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Again, a lot of it I don\u2019t remember. I didn\u2019t get angry; I was discouraged. I just remember thinking, in one way: \u201cWell, he\u2019ll be back. He\u2019s not gone-gone.\u201d But I do remember, over time, he didn\u2019t come back; he didn\u2019t come back. When he did, it was pop in; pop out. I can remember fights again. It was not a fun moment when he would come in. I also remember he didn\u2019t seem to pay any attention to me and Craig. He was there to talk to my mom, whatever, and go.\n\nThey were still, obviously\u2014now, I know they\u2019re still working through the details of what this was going to look like\u2014but he was off, and I found out later he was off with girlfriends. He had mistresses. I didn\u2019t know until I was probably 28. My sister told me, \u201cI don\u2019t know if you know this, but Dad used to take you and Craig on vacations with his girlfriends when he was still married to Mom.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat are you talking\u2026\u201d I didn\u2019t remember any of that, but we would go on trips with Dad\u2019s mistresses.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Just real quickly\u2014fast forward to 28\/30 years of age\u2014you find out there\u2019s <em>more<\/em> to the betrayal.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, found out a lot more.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s interesting, Ron, too\u2014that I think is one of the pieces that Dave didn\u2019t mention\u2014was something that happened to his brother very soon after the divorce.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; well, the short story was my mom now is a single mom.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She\u2019s like, \u201cHow am I going to rebuild my life?\u201d My two brothers and older sister were off to college and beyond\u2014they were that much older. It was really Mom and myself and Craig. We moved to Ohio. Why Ohio?\u2014that\u2019s where her parents lived. We moved to get help and start a new life. That\u2019s traumatic. I had a dog I loved\u2014a German shepherd named Sarge\u2014somehow, he didn\u2019t make it to Ohio.\n\nAgain, I lose my dad\/lose the marriage and then probably\u2014I don\u2019t know exact timeline\u2014three to four months later, we find out Craig has leukemia. Within six weeks, he dies. There\u2019s no bone marrow transplants back then. It was very quick and, obviously, traumatic as I walked through the divorce; the move; and now; my best friend\/my little brother is gone.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Okay; so let me just recap what I\u2019m hearing.\n\nBy the way, Bob, I\u2019ll just mention that we have a resource at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> called \u201cLife in a Blender.\u201d It\u2019s written for children who are living in a stepfamily to help them make sense of their life and some of the things that they experience. One of the things that we talk about are the big five emotions\u2014loss and sadness are two of those.\n\nLet\u2019s just recap this story that we have so far. Life was one thing prior to Dad leaving; but once he left and the divorce took place, it was a cascade of loss for you\u2014a different home; different family income level; mom and dad are not together; when dad\u2019s back, he\u2019s not really tuning into you\u2014you\u2019ve lost him even when he\u2019s there. There\u2019s confusion and discouragement: move to a new place, lose your dog in the process, and then a <em>huge<\/em> loss for the family is the loss of your younger brother.\n\nI\u2019m just sitting here, taking that in from <em>your<\/em> vantage point. I\u2019m listening to all the transition and the pain that goes along with that and how heavy that is. I\u2019m also aware that your mother, whom is the primary care giver for you at that point in time, has gone through <em>tremendous<\/em>, tremendous loss herself. I have lost a child; so I know what that is to be in her shoes, losing her child. To have that on top of the loss of her marriage; loss of her family; loss of position, friends, place of work\u2014all the stuff that\u2019s wrapped into that\u2014I can\u2019t imagine how your mom functioned.\n\nLet\u2019s go inside that a little for you. What was parenting like at that point in your life? What was your relationship with your mom? How did that morph and change? How did you guys <em>survive<\/em> all of this together?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, my mom was everything\u2014clung to her. We only had each other at that point after Craigy was gone\u2014yes; loved her dearly. She\u2014I always felt loved by her. She was my biggest cheerleader my whole life.\n\nBut I can remember\u2014even as I hit ten, and twelve, and thirteen\u2014just watching the sadness. She was very lonely. I wanted to be there for her\/wanted to help her. I remember, constantly, she would say, \u201cYou\u2019re the man of the house.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m twelve, and\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I\u2019m like, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be the man of the house!\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014but I had to be.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> What do you mean: \u201c\u2026had to be\u201d? Unpack that for me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean\u2014there was <em>nobody<\/em> else there; there was no other man. She dated a little bit, but nobody really walked into our life.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> So there\u2019s a strong sense of obligation and responsibility in you?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Not necessarily something you really chose or would have chosen; but yet, you knew if you didn\u2019t to it\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Let\u2019s paint that scenario for a second; because sometimes, that\u2019s helpful to even understand how you end up making some of the choices you made, as a kid\u2014like, \u201cWhat if I don\u2019t do this for Mom?\u201d\u2014what would have happened?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I really felt like she needed me to be strong\u2014again, 13\/12.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As I went into middle school and high school, I <em>felt<\/em> like: \u201cShe\u2019s stable but [unstable],\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and \u201cI can\u2019t be [unstable].\u201d This really is a counselling session. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you think your relationship with her ever got unhealthy? Was she ever codependent? Was there ever a situation where she was counting on you for more than a mom ought to be counting on a 12-year-old for?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m wondering what my wife\u2019s thinking right now. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She just moved up to the microphone. I think she\u2019s got an answer for us.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t even look over there\u2014you noticed that? I didn\u2019t even want to see what she\u2019s going to say. [Laughter] I think I know what she\u2019s going to say.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; I think the answer to that would be, \u201cYes.\u201d I think she was so broken\u2014so lonely\/so hurting. I remember Dave\u2019s stepmom telling me\u2014this is interesting; just a side note\u2014that Dave went on the honeymoon of his dad and stepmom.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014to Europe.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>She said he couldn\u2019t sleep by himself. She realized that Dave had been sleeping with his mom. He was\u2014what 12?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I guess 12. You know\u2014sort of funny\u2014I didn\u2019t know my dad\u2019s on a <em>honeymoon<\/em> with his new wife. I just thought, \u201cWe\u2019re going on a trip.\u201d I found out, years later, because Beata\u2014that\u2019s my stepmother\u2014she was like, \u201cDo you realize that, on our honeymoon night, you came walking in our hotel room?\u201d I had a hotel room across the hall. Of course, we\u2019re in Europe; and I\u2019m scared anyway.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Any kid would be.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I go knocking on the door\u2014say, \u201cCan I sleep in here?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, it\u2019s sort of funny now; but that gives you an idea where I was\/where they were. Yes; I mean, I grew up\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There wasn\u2019t anything inappropriate that happened, sleeping with his mom.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>But it just represented: \u201cThat\u2019s what you were used to at that point in time.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> My comment about your mom is\u2014of course, there was this strong, deeply connected reliance on her son. I don\u2019t know how you survived that sort of loss\u2014that Mt. Kilimanjaro of loss\u2014without finding <em>something<\/em> you hold on to. Of course, that was the nature of your relationship. And of course, you felt a great sense of responsibility and obligation to her.\n\nI think, sometimes, it\u2019s easy for us to step outside people\u2019s lives and just judge that: \u201cWhat? You were sleeping\u2026\u201d \u201cSomehow, you were overly connected.\u201d That\u2019s a little bit of God\u2019s grace for people, sometimes, when you get behind it and you understand how much loss is in this story\u2014nobody wants <em>more<\/em> loss.\n\nThat\u2019s one of the things we know about kids in blended families is\u2014they don\u2019t want more loss. Yet, it seems that, sometimes, every little turn\/every little twist becomes a little bit more loss. You go with your dad and you find out that was him investing in somebody else\u2014not really investing in me\u2014like, \u201cI\u2019m there, but we\u2019re not connected.\u201d That\u2019s an ongoing narrative that gets in the way.\n\nI\u2019m curious about that\u2014your relationship with your dad through your adolescent years\u2014what was that like?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, it was pretty non-existent. He would fly up to Ohio\u2014and I don\u2019t know the exact timeline\u2014but I saw him maybe once or twice a year for a day. It would usually get ugly\u2014he would drink; it would get loud. I\u2019d go hide in the bedroom\u2014wait until it was over\u2014until the storm cleared. That was my experience with my dad. I remember that in middle school; then high school.\n\nThen, I <em>hated<\/em> this\u2014right after the divorce\u2014seven, eight, nine years old\u2014I, for whatever reason, had to go see my dad at Christmas\u2014I would fly to Miami, Florida. Now, he\u2019s in Miami\u2014flying out, on Christmas morning, by myself. Back then, <em>nobody<\/em> flew on Christmas Day. The flight attendants\u2014I could tell they felt sorry for me. They\u2019d let me sit in First Class\u2014nobody on the plane. They would be assigned to me\u2014to take care of this little boy, getting him to his dad\u2019s.\n\nI can <em>remember<\/em> getting in his car\u2014nice car\u2014rich\u2014you know, living the life, and looking at these palm trees, going: \u201cWhat am I doing here? I don\u2019t want to be here. I want to be home; I want to be in Ohio. I want to be at my home at Christmas, and I have to go see my dad for three or four days.\u201d It was a trip or two and, then, Christmas every other year.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I\u2019m hearing some of those other big five emotions: <em>confusion<\/em>\u2014like, \u201cHere I am; I <em>have<\/em> to do this, but I <em>don\u2019t<\/em> <em>want<\/em> to do this.\u201d Then, \u201cWhen I get here, I realize how much he has financially, etcetera; and I\u2019m aware.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you had nothing, back with your mom.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right; mom and I got <em>nothing<\/em>\u2014what a contrast. You know, again, it\u2019s because \u201cHe left us.\u201d There had to be some real anger or hurt towards him.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; one of the reasons I blocked having a relationship. I really think he wanted one, and he was doing what he could to do that. I mean, he wasn\u2019t there a lot; but when we were together, I could tell\u2014I really did have a sense: \u201cHe loves me. He really does love me. He want\u2019s good for me,\u201d\u2014almost a sense\u2014\u201cI think he feels bad about what happened.\u201d But we never talked about it. You know, through high school, through college, until we got married, <em>never<\/em> once was there a conversation with Dad about the divorce\/about any of that.\n\nThere were many with my mom. She wasn\u2019t a mean, bitter, \u201cYour dad\u2019s an idiot,\u201d-type mom\u2014she honored him\u2014but I was confused. I <em>never<\/em> really understood.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And no trust. You couldn\u2019t have trusted your dad; that\u2019s the reason there\u2019s no relationship. He left when you were seven.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What are you going to trust him with?\u2014with trying to have a relationship? No; that doesn\u2019t make any sense; right?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I\u2019m also wondering about, yes, loyalty to mom. I mean, how would you have felt if you had drawn close to your dad? Like, \u201cMom needs me. Mom\u2019s relying on me,\u201d\u2014like that would be, in a way, putting her in jeopardy.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Treasonous; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I also felt that when Dad got remarried. I felt like, \u201cI can\u2019t like her, because that\u2019s a\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014betrayal.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbetrayal to my mom.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014to your mom.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> My mom would ask, when I would come home, \u201cHow\u2019s Beata?\u201d I\u2019d be like. \u201cShe\u2019s okay.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t that interesting? All she had to do was ask\u2014what could be a very neutral question on the surface\u2014but it very much isn\u2019t neutral in your heart. Even if she\u2019s not really saying, \u201cDo you love her?\u201d\u00a0 You felt like she was saying, \u201cDo you love her?\u201d You\u2019re in this love conflict that\u2019s: \u201cMom needs me. She\u2019s got <em>nothing<\/em> but me, so I\u2019m definitely favoring here.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve touched on these five emotions you talk about. Just list them for us. What are the five?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> They\u2019re <em>loss<\/em>\u2014and the <em>sadness<\/em> that goes along with that loss\u2014right? Those are related.\n\n<em>Fear<\/em>\u2014and we\u2019ve heard that; we haven\u2019t talked about it yet\u2014but it\u2019s the fear of more loss. The fear of, in this case: \u201cThe fear of hurting mom if I enjoy my step mom,\u201d \u201cFear of hurting mom if I enjoy my dad and draw close to him.\u201d\n\n<em>Guilt<\/em>\u2014this sense of responsibility that you had toward your mom is one example of, \u201cBoy, I feel guilty if I <em>don\u2019t<\/em> fulfill that responsibility.\u201d It\u2019s going to change who I am, and how I act, and how I live my life.\n\nThen the <em>confusion<\/em> piece of: \u201cHow do I deal with all this? What does it mean? Why did Dad leave?\u201d \u201cWhat does this mean for me and the future of our family and relationships?\u201d It\u2019s a lot of confusion.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The booklet\u2014it\u2019s really a small book\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> It is.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s written for kids\u2014helps them unpack these emotions and put names to these emotions\u2014so they can go: \u201cOh, I\u2019m not abnormal because of these things I\u2019m feeling,\u201d and \u201cMaybe even I can understand what it is I\u2019m feeling and put some categories to it, rather than just feeling it.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> As a parent, Ron, is that our responsibility?\u2014to ask those questions? Is this a counseling situation?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I\u2019m so glad you brought that up, because there\u2019s a secondary purpose in this booklet. We actually have a parent discussion guide with it, so that parents are moving towards the heart of their child\/the experience of their child. We want to give the kids words to help them go, \u201cYes; that is what I\u2019m feeling.\u201d\n\nWe also want to help the parents say: \u201cIs that what you\u2019re feeling? Is this your experience?\u201d We give them a few questions\u2014the parents\u2014to ask their child after they read it so that you can move toward their heart. What we\u2019re doing here, today, with Dave is what we would <em>love<\/em> to see happen\u2014thousands of times around the world\u2014one parent towards their own child.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, if this would have been around when I was ten years old. Oh, my gosh; there was <em>nothing<\/em> like this!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; and I\u2019m thinking of\u2014and again, this would need to be appropriate\u2014but youth pastors, who could engage with kids in their youth group, or children\u2019s ministers, who would recognize this in their church. I\u2019m thinking of aunts or uncles or grandparents, who go: \u201cThat family dynamic is so dysfunctional. I don\u2019t know that that conversation could be had between parent and child in a healthy way.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The parents can be so\u2014they\u2019re hurting so much that, sometimes, they can\u2019t even get beyond today.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; to have somebody else, who\u2019s a friend or family member, step in and say, \u201cCould I just get together and pick your son up for ice cream?\u201d Get a book like this and start to go through it with that young man\/that young woman. We\u2019ve got the \u201cLife in a Blender\u201d book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go, online, to get a copy. The website is FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nAnd then, keep in mind the event that is coming up next month. It\u2019s the <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em> one-day live event. It\u2019s going to be live in Minneapolis on Saturday, April 27<sup>th<\/sup>. It\u2019s going to be livestreamed all around the world. You can tune in and be a part of this as a couple, as a church\/with your small group. All the information\u2019s available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Again, the date is Saturday, April 27<sup>th<\/sup>. Speakers will include Dave and Ann Wilson; Ron Deal; Shaunti Feldhahn\u2019s going to be joining us; Chris Brooks is going to be with us as well. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for all the information.\n\nCall us if you have any questions; or if you\u2019d like to get the \u201cLife in a Blender\u201d book, call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com. The number to call for resources or information about <em>Blended and Blessed<\/em> is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nLet me just add a quick word of thanks here for those of you who make programs like today\u2019s program possible. It\u2019s those of you who partner with us\u2014as either monthly Legacy Partners or who will, from time to time, make a donation to support the work of this ministry. When you donate, you\u2019re helping cover the cost of producing and syndicating this program so it can be heard in hundreds of communities across the country and via the internet all around the world. Thank you for your partnership on behalf of all of the people who are benefiting from listening to these kinds of conversations. We appreciate you.\n\nNow, before we wrap things up here today, we\u2019ve got some thoughts on our conversation from the President of FamilyLife, David Robbins. David\u2014\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Well, first of all, I just want to thank Dave Wilson for inviting us into his story, and telling his story, and sharing it with us; because it just declares how God makes beauty out of ashes. He is a God who\u2019s in the business of redemption. The Bible is a book about redemption. God, not only takes broken things in our lives and mends them, but He actually restores them into greater beauty\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014better than new.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> \u2014better than new.\n\nWhatever circumstance you find yourself going through in life\u2014specifically, today, some of us are probably walking through some hard things\u2014God is at work in the midst of it. Let\u2019s turn to Him.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; thank you.\n\nWell, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about the impact of growing up in a home where mom and dad get a divorce\u2014how that impacts a marriage, moving forward. We\u2019ll talk more with Dave and Ann Wilson about that tomorrow. Ron Deal will be with us again. I hope you can join us back as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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