{"id":300085,"date":"2019-03-14T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-03-14T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/seasons-of-drifting\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:17","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:17","slug":"seasons-of-drifting","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/seasons-of-drifting\/","title":{"rendered":"Seasons of Drifting"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: D.A. and Elicia Horton, Juli Slattery, Ron Deal, Voddie Baucham | Series: You Asked, We Answered | A panel of experts answers your questions about forgiveness in marriage. Voddie Baucham, Juli Slattery, DA and Elicia Horton, and Ron Deal address difficult situations with truth from Scripture.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A panel of experts answers your questions about forgiveness in marriage. Voddie Baucham, Juli Slattery, DA and Elicia Horton, and Ron Deal address difficult situations with truth from Scripture.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-03-14.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:19","filesize":"27.76M","filesize_raw":"29103317","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2908,2810],"tags":[2699,4150,4149],"podcast_series":[7177],"cwp_profile":[8806,3388,3300,8805],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300085","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-forgiveness","category-growing-spiritually","tag-forgiveness","tag-forgiving-your-spouse","tag-re-building-trust","podcast_series-you-asked-we-answered","cwp_profile-d-a-and-elicia-horton","cwp_profile-juli-slattery","cwp_profile-ron-deal","cwp_profile-voddie-baucham","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300085\/seasons-of-drifting","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300085\/seasons-of-drifting","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"ZZAPiH9uJu\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/seasons-of-drifting\/\">Seasons of Drifting<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/seasons-of-drifting\/embed\/#?secret=ZZAPiH9uJu\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Seasons of Drifting&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"ZZAPiH9uJu\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"A panel of experts answers your questions about forgiveness in marriage. Voddie Baucham, Juli Slattery, DA and Elicia Horton, and Ron Deal address difficult situations with truth from Scripture.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-03-14.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Research shows there\u2019s a spike in the divorce rate when couples begin the empty nest season. Pastor D.A. Horton says there\u2019s a reason for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.:<\/strong> Some of the most grievous situations that I\u2019ve been immersed in is empty nest couples, who centered their <em>entire<\/em> last 20\/30 years around kids, and now the cycle of grandkids is now the only thing keeping the couple together. What I\u2019m having to go back and explain to them is that, when you met at sixteen and now your sixty-six\/now you\u2019re in your seventies, you\u2019re like sixteen-year-olds still fussing and fighting with each other; and now you\u2019ve replace the children with grandchildren as idols in your lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, March 14<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. How do you keep from entering the empty nest years and finding yourself isolated from your spouse?\u2014or how do you rebuild romance when you find yourself there? We\u2019ll hear more about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition. You guys have done this at your church\u2014right?\u2014where people submit questions about marriage and you just kind of take them, rapid fire?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s always really fun, Bob. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Why do you say it like that, Dave?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because you never know what you\u2019re going to\u2014actually, it\u2019s awesome\u2014it really is, because people get to ask what they really want answers to. But on the stage, it\u2019s a little scary because you don\u2019t know exactly what\u2019s going to come in; but you know it\u2019s what they want and need.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We actually did this for our book launch, back in February. Our son, who\u2019s a pastor at our church, as well, actually took the questions\u2014he was interviewing Dave and I. It was a little awkward for him. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; the first ten questions were all about sex\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014just like your panel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, he says: \u201cThis is weird. I\u2019m going to talk to my mom and dad about your questions about sex.\u201d [Laughter] But you know what?\u2014we did it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We put a panel together on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae <\/sup>marriage cruise, which was also back just a few weeks ago in February. We had Ron Deal, and Juli Slattery, and D.A. and Elicia Horton, and Voddie Baucham joining us. Our listeners will recognize all of those names, because those folks have been guests on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Then we invited people on board the cruise to submit their marriage questions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere were a lot of questions about intimacy in marriage, but there were questions on a wide variety. In fact, you could read the questions and you could tell where the pain points were in a lot of marriages. It was a <em>great<\/em> evening just to get real and transparent about challenges we face in marriage and how to address those challenges. Our listeners today are going to hear a part of that panel Q&amp;A that we had. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to remind listeners\u2014you guys are going to be on the 2020 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; excited. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014Valentine\u2019s week. It\u2019s February 9<sup>th<\/sup>-16<sup>th<\/sup>, going to St. Thomas in the Virgin Islands, to Puerto Rico, to Coco Cay. It\u2019s a seven-night cruise next year. Along with Dave and Ann Wilson, Dennis and Barbara Rainey will be joining us on the cruise. Dr. Gary Chapman from <em>The Five Love Languages<\/em> is going to be there. Charlie and Kirstie Dates will be on the cruise. Mary Ann and I are going on the cruise as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, if you\u2019d like to sign up to join us, if you use the promo code, \u201cCRUISE MADNESS,\u201d you\u2019ll save $400 per cabin\u2014you can come at a reduced rate. We\u2019re \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t70 percent sold out for next year. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Awesome!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s amazing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We want to make sure <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners have a chance. Maybe you\u2019ve got a special anniversary coming up or something you want to celebrate; maybe you want to bring some friends along and have a vacation with other couples\u2014check out the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014the information is available there. You can just click on it, and it\u2019ll take you where you can get all the information about next year\u2019s cruise. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to hear Part Two of the panel conversation we had on board the cruise. One of the questions that came in to us was a question from a couple\u2014empty nesters\u2014who are experiencing isolation. They\u2019ve just kind of drifted apart and marriage is not what they thought it would be in this season of their life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Recorded Cruise Panel]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Voddie, I just want to ask you about those seasons when marriages start to drift\u2014you\u2019re just not connecting. You go through an extended stretch; and you wake up and you look at each other and go, \u201cI feel like you are a stranger and we\u2019re disconnected.\u201d You\u2019re in isolation\u2014what do you do in those situations?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> You know, there\u2019s this certain thing as an indicator species\u2014you know, certain species that, if they\u2019re not doing well, you know there\u2019s something wrong in the ecosystem. I think sex in a marriage is an indicator species. If things are problematic <em>there<\/em>, it\u2019s an indication that there\u2019s problems <em>elsewhere<\/em>. I think it\u2019s very important that we recognize that and that we <em>treat<\/em> it as such: \u201cWhat is it that is happening in the rest of our relationship that is <em>allowing<\/em> us to think or not think of each other, you know, in this way?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The reality for a lot of couples is\u2014you have kids, a husband\u2019s in a career\/a wife\u2019s in a career. You\u2019ve got things pulling you in all kinds of directions. Life gets <em>really<\/em> busy, and you prioritize those things ahead of the relationship and think the relationship\u2019s going to just be okay. How do we keep that from happening?\u2014and what do we do if that\u2019s where we are in a marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> Well, one of the things I\u2019ve always advocated is the idea of getting away regularly. Trying to get away and not <em>just<\/em> to get away\u2014it needs to be with a view toward dissecting and analyzing: \u201cWhat\u2019s going on with us, spiritually? What\u2019s going on with us, emotionally? What are those things that we need to address?\u201d on a regular basis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNot only those get-aways but also face time\u2014we need to have regular face time that we schedule\/that we plan. You know, you talk about getting out the planner: \u201cWe need to schedule and plan that face time.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, there\u2019s a training issue. Our children have to be <em>taught<\/em> that they are <em>not<\/em> the priority. We <em>cannot<\/em> center our life around our children. [Applause] They\u2019re <em>not<\/em> the center of our world. Our marriage is at the center and our children <em>need<\/em> to know that. If you prioritize your children over your marriage, repent; repent! Your marriage comes <em>first<\/em>. It <em>must<\/em> come first. If you <em>love<\/em> your children, then love them enough to prioritize your marriage <em>before<\/em> them; because your marriage is their source of security. Putting them before your marriage is putting their security at jeopardy. Your marriage comes first. [Applause] These types of things: priorities\u2014making that time, that schedule, the plan\u2014dissecting, analyzing, being purposeful. Get away from this whole, you know, like you just addressed, that whole romantic myth that it\u2019s just going to happen\u2014not with life going on all around us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Elicia.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia:<\/strong> I just want to also speak to my sisters in Christ; because for a long time in our relationship, I put a lot of stress and pressure on him to always be the one to plan dates and moments of romance. I felt really convicted, like probably year ten; and I really started looking back and saying: \u201cYou know what? I\u2019ve allowed busyness to be a part of our rhythm. I\u2019ve allowed those things to creep up. I have allowed my children to be a priority over my spouse, who\u2019s going to be with me long after the children are gone.\u201d Amen? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor that, I really had to repent. But I just wanted to encourage my sisters in Christ\u2014because I\u2019ve done it, and I\u2019ve struggled with it\u2014it\u2019s important. You know, we\u2019ve got these great books that say, \u201cDate your wife.\u201d But, women, we need to date our husbands, too; okay? [Applause] We need to be the ones that, you know, surprise them, and show them that we care for them, and show them that we\u2019re still thinking about them in the littlest ways and the biggest of ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI feel like for that\u2014that\u2019s something we have recognized, early on, to say, \u201cOkay; wait a minute. That\u2019s starting to take over this, so what do we need to do to stop that?\u201d I take the responsibility for myself, not blaming it on him; and we both work on that together. \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.:<\/strong> The only thing I would piggy back on that is the necessity it is to be plugged in to a local church with other couples that are in similar, syncopated rhythms of life that you\u2019re in. I say that from a pastoral perspective; because some of the most grievous situations that I\u2019ve been immersed in is empty nest couples, who center their <em>entire<\/em> last 20\/30 years around kids, and now the cycle of grandkids is <em>now<\/em> the only thing keeping the couple together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I\u2019m having to go back and explain to them is that, when you met at sixteen and now your sixty-six\/now you\u2019re in your seventies, you\u2019re like sixteen-year-olds still fussing and fighting with each other; and now you\u2019ve replaced the children with grandchildren as idols in your lives. The reality of what they need to do is surrender those idols and reconnect with each other. One of the best prescriptions that we\u2019ve given is: \u201cEngage with the other couples in your local church. As you do that, engage with date nights\/couple nights\u2014have times that you find things of similar interests. Go to ball games\/go to whatever it is; but make sure that you are engaging with individuals that are in a similar rhythm of life but that, also, are in a different season of life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHonestly, one of the greatest compliments we\u2019ve received, from more seasoned married couples, is that being around us has sparked something that hasn\u2019t been sparked in them in a long time. We get to drink deeply from the wells of wisdom that they have. If they\u2019re telling us, at 76, what they wished they could do at 38, I\u2019m going to tune in so that I can do what they wished they could do at 38, now that I\u2019m 38; so that when I\u2019m 76, I\u2019m not repeating the same mistakes. [Applause]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ll just\u2014I\u2019ll add to that\u2014Mary Ann and I have found that, when we go out with other couples, the pressure is not on the two of us to try to make that night work well for us. Now, if you\u2019re with two or three other couples\u2014you come home; you\u2019ve had a great night together; you\u2019ve found out things about each other that you wouldn\u2019t have found out if those other couples hadn\u2019t been there. It can be a great way\u2014I mean, I think it\u2019s good to have a date night; but sometimes, bring some other couples along on your date night; and that\u2019ll liven things up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Truth\u2014you\u2019ve heard truth so much from everybody up here. I just want to add this\u2014let me speak to the low-motivated partner and the high-motivated partner for just a minute. A year ago on this cruise, I stood up here and I told the story about how I chased ministry; and in the process, abandoned my wife in our marriage. It led to a real crisis point for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe bottom line is\u2014me, as that person who was well-intended but chasing all the wrong things, had to repent\u2014I had to deal with me. I had to face me in the mirror\u2014I had to recognize that what I thought I was doing was good, and right, and holy, and because it was for God, it was right\u2014my wife just had to deal with it. That was a <em>wrong<\/em> posture. I needed to change of that, and that was the <em>only<\/em> way we were going to grow. If you\u2019re that low-motivated person, there is a point, where you\u2019ve got to look in the mirror and deal with <em>you<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if you\u2019re the high-motivated partner\u2014has anybody in here figured out you can\u2019t make somebody want you as much as you want them to want you? If you are that high-want partner\u2014highly motivated\u2014you want to do all this stuff; you want to go to all the groups and the other spouse will not\u2014you know how powerless you are in that situation. What is tempting is for you to beat them over the head, and take them to church, and call the pastor, and: \u201cYou need to do this,\u201d and \u201cYou need to do that.\u201d For you to, in anger, try to get them to be motivated\u2014that will back fire <em>every time<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you have to do is approach them with the softness of \u201cI miss you,\u201d because <em>really<\/em> that\u2019s the truth. Your anger is not the truth; your desire <em>for<\/em> them is the truth. You lead with that as much as you can\u2014you try to just say: \u201cI\u2019m with you. I get it. There\u2019s something going on. This is hard. I\u2019m not against you; I\u2019m for you. Let\u2019s figure this out together.\u201d Pray like crazy that that then leads to an opportunity with the other person\u2014looks in the mirror and says, \u201cI need to figure this out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Voddie, let me ask you about the issue of betrayal of trust in a relationship. What do we do when there are patterns, where there\u2019s been a significant betrayal of trust? Can trust be rebuilt in a relationship?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> Not only can it\u2014it <em>must<\/em>. We are forgiven so we can forgive. Forgiveness is the first piece of that reconciliation puzzle. How many times?\u2014seventy times seven\u2014that\u2019s not a math equation; right? What we can\u2019t expect is to just say it and make it so. Building trust is something that happens over a period of time, and it ebbs and flows. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have to also remember\u2014and this is why putting the cross at the center of this is so important\u2014that\u2019s why I said, \u201cWe are forgiven so we can forgive.\u201d When I am having a problem with forgiving Bridget, I am always being a hypocrite; because I have been forgiven <em>much<\/em>. I have to remind myself that I\u2019m the same person, who pleads with God for forgiveness, receives God\u2019s forgiveness, and is restored on the regular; and therefore, have the ability and the obligation to pursue that. That doesn\u2019t mean it\u2019s easy; it doesn\u2019t mean it\u2019s quick, but it does mean it\u2019s necessary and it\u2019s possible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What do you do if the person you are married to knows you are committed to seventy times seven and they take advantage of that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> Yes; you do seventy times seven.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You just keep getting stepped on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> What\u2019s the alternative? See, that\u2019s the question: \u201cWhat\u2019s the alternative?\u2014I\u2019m not going anywhere.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Can I bring some godly accountability into this person\u2019s life? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> Yes; of course you can, but that\u2019s a separate issue; right? Even if godly accountability is coming into this person\u2019s life, my forgiveness is not contingent even upon them responding to the godly accountability; because they can treat the godly accountability the same way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you back things up enough and somebody\u2019s just obstinate, there are not enough things that you can do in order to change someone\u2019s obstinate heart\u2014God has to do that. I have to trust God to do that and rely on what He tells <em>me<\/em> to do\u2014whether that\u2019s my forgiveness, which is not optional; my pursuit of reconciliation; my pursuit of other means; my trusting God\u2019s people and local church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of these things are good; all of these things are necessary\u2014not one of them removes my obligation and responsibility to forgive and pursue reconciliation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What did you want to say, Juli?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Yes; you know, I think we\u2019ve got to distinguish between forgiveness\u2014which is \u201cmy right to punish you and to hold you to justice\u201d\u2014I give that over to the Lord. The Lord says: \u201cVengeance is Mine. Trust Me\u201d; and the second thing, which is reconciliation\/rebuilding the relationship. The truth is\u2014when we hurt one another, there are consequences to that. If somebody is unrepentant of that and continues to hurt in significant ways\u2014continues to lie\/continues to cheat\u2014then we put\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014perpetual infidelity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie:<\/strong> \u2014right; we put boundaries in. God does that with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie:<\/strong> We are called to do that with one another, where there\u2019s a confrontation. If your heart remains hard, intimacy is not possible; and we\u2019re not just talking about physical intimacy\u2014spiritual intimacy, emotional intimacy\/trusting my heart to you. There are boundaries that we put in place, with godly counsel and with lots of prayer. The boundaries are meant to lead to repentance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Damien, what did you want to say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.:<\/strong> I think a couple of the things is\u2014one, if you are the spouse that is consistently being hurt, never divorce yourself from the ministry of intercessory prayer for your spouse. The war is fought on your knees; and that\u2019s not this over-spiritualized, over-romanticized\u2014I will speak that from my momma\u2019s perspective. I\u2019ve watched her put up with my dad for well over 45 years. That woman is a praying momma, and she is before the Lord on a consistent basis. She is not overbearing on my dad; she loves him, but she communicates her pain\u2014she says: \u201cI want you to look at my eyes. You are hurting me; you are breaking me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy dad doesn\u2019t want to see it, but he needs to face those facts\u2014to see that his behavior patterns have instilled decade, upon decade, upon decade of woundedness and hurt in a woman, who has God the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of her, that is giving her the endurance for over the past 45 years to say: \u201cI still love you. I\u2019m still working on rebuilding trust.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other nuance that I think that we, also, have to take into consideration is\u2014there\u2019s consequences that resurface. There will be text messages that may come in. What you have to learn to do is communicate and fight, together, for oneness in the midst of consequences that will meld your hearts together so that you can re-establish and rebuild trust over the course of time. Recognize that these consequences\u2014especially, if you are the one who is consistently doing the offending\u2014these consequences are all a result of actions that you willfully moved in. You cannot erase these consequences; but if you are building and re-establishing trust, coupled with the ministry of intercessory prayer, the Lord will surface these things as opportunities for both of your greater dependence on [Him], who lives inside of you, and then also to lean, interdependently, on each other to make it through the eye of that storm. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I wish we could keep going, but we\u2019ve got to draw this to a conclusion. Thank you guys for your thoughts and for what you\u2019ve shared this evening. Would you thank them? [Applause] Appreciate it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, again, we had a chance to hear a portion of the Q&amp;A time we had on board the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise with a number of panelists: Ron Deal, Juli Slattery, D.A. and Elicia Horton, and Voddie Baucham\u2014talking about issues that couples are facing in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat last issue\u2014the issue of rebuilding trust\u2014so many times, when I\u2019m talking with couples, they think that extending forgiveness is supposed to automatically reinstate trust in a marriage relationship. We are called upon to extend forgiveness when our spouse has sinned against us, but the fact that forgiveness has been offered does not mean that trust is ready to be established. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; as you guys talked on the panel\u2014it is rebuilt. The scary thing about breaking trust is\u2014it\u2019s broken in a second; and it could take days\/months\/years to earn back\/rebuilt trust. I remember, when we were raising our boys, we never said, \u201cTrust somebody\u201d; we said, \u201cTrust people that earn it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, you forgive and you love people; but people have to earn trust back, and it\u2019s a hard deal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I do think, Ann\u2014sometimes, there are husbands or wives who refuse to rebuild trust. Really, they\u2019re hanging on to the bitterness or they\u2019re hanging on to the hurt. They say, \u201cWell, I\u2019ve forgiven you,\u201d and you go: \u201cReally? Have you really forgiven me? Is your heart toward wanting to rebuild trust?\u2014or are you continuing to rehearse the hurt and you just say, \u2018I\u2019ll never trust that person again\u2019?\u201d If that\u2019s what you\u2019re saying: \u201cI\u2019ll never trust that person again,\u201d then you haven\u2019t forgiven them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s so true. I think it\u2019s easy to guard our hearts, because we don\u2019t want to be hurt again; we don\u2019t want to feel taken advantage of again. To go before Jesus and to ask Him to <em>give<\/em> you that heart, because He gives that to us continually\u2014that undeserved forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What do you think? Should we do a Q&amp;A thing next year on the cruise when you guys are on board? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would love it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019ll see what the team puts together, but that may be a part of what we do in 2020. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, who has just stopped here and was on board the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise with us, here, a few weeks ago. You had a good time on the cruise; didn\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> I did. It\u2019s kind of hard not to; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> These messages were a big part of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>They really were. FamilyLife\u2019s <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> cruise is such a fantastic way to relax; and it is relaxing, but also to renew. The talks that you receive and the different variety of options to grow personally with your relationship with God and with your spouse is such a unique opportunity for your relationship with God and for your relationship with your spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs it turns out, God does work in some pretty powerful ways. Dave and Valerie are one of those couples, who came on the cruise last year\u2014they actually came with their divorce papers signed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; I remember hearing about this. This was powerful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Fast forward, a week after the cruise\u2014they sent a bottle of ashes to our team, here, at FamilyLife. It said: \u201cHere\u2019s our burned divorce papers. Thank you, FamilyLife, for the ways that you poured into our marriage on the cruise.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was great to see Dave and Valerie back, this year, on this year\u2019s cruise, celebrating a year of redemption and a year of restoration. It was both honest and really beautiful to see them share how hard restoration continues to be in some ways; but yet, to see the hope they exuded and the joy that they expressed about their marriage growing and continuing to thrive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was powerful; wasn\u2019t it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> It really was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Most of the people who come on the cruise are not in desperate situations, coming with their divorce papers. Most of the people are coming to build an already strong marriage\u2014make it even stronger\u2014that kind of regular marriage maintenance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope that our listeners will be part of the 2020 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise. We\u2019re about 70 percent sold-out for that cruise. For the next couple of weeks, we\u2019re making a special offer to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. You can join us on board the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise and save $400 per couple off your stateroom. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information\u2014use the promo code, \u201cCRUISE MADNESS,\u201d to take advantage of this special offer\u2014and find out more about all the plans for 2020: the speakers, the new cruise ship we\u2019re going to be on, the ports we\u2019ll be attending. Again, all the information is available on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call if you have any questions: 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, be sure to take advantage of the special offer\u2014secure a stateroom next year for the cruise and save $400 per couple off the stateroom fee when you contact us between now and March 25<sup>th<\/sup>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to share a challenge with you that we heard on board the <em>Love Like You Mean It <\/em>marriage cruise from Voddie Baucham. He was challenging husbands to regularly pray with and for your wife. We\u2019ll share that with you tomorrow. I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. Special thanks to Justin Adams for all his help with this week\u2019s programs. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300085","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300085"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300085"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300085"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300085"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300085"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300085"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300085"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}