{"id":300083,"date":"2019-03-13T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-03-13T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/frustrations-with-intimacy\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:17","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:17","slug":"frustrations-with-intimacy","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/frustrations-with-intimacy\/","title":{"rendered":"Frustrations with Intimacy"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A panel of experts answers some of your toughest questions about marital intimacy. Voddie Baucham, Juli Slattery, DA and Elicia Horton, and Ron Deal address difficult situations with truth from Scripture.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-03-13.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:51","filesize":"28.24M","filesize_raw":"29614115","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2902,2088],"tags":[4147,4148],"podcast_series":[7177],"cwp_profile":[8806,3388,3300,8805],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300083","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-resolving-conflict","category-romance-and-sex","tag-differences-in-desire","tag-why-is-sex-so-hard","podcast_series-you-asked-we-answered","cwp_profile-d-a-and-elicia-horton","cwp_profile-juli-slattery","cwp_profile-ron-deal","cwp_profile-voddie-baucham","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300083\/frustrations-with-intimacy","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300083\/frustrations-with-intimacy","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"L7jRwsWVVD\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/frustrations-with-intimacy\/\">Frustrations with Intimacy<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/frustrations-with-intimacy\/embed\/#?secret=L7jRwsWVVD\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Frustrations with Intimacy&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"L7jRwsWVVD\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"A panel of experts answers some of your toughest questions about marital intimacy. Voddie Baucham, Juli Slattery, DA and Elicia Horton, and Ron Deal address difficult situations with truth from Scripture.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-03-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, March 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. The area of sexual intimacy in marriage is an area that is fraught with risk and vulnerability. How do we learn to communicate with one another and to draw closer to one another in this area? We\u2019re going to spend time hearing about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. I don\u2019t know if I told you guys this; but we did something a little different, a few weeks ago, on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage cruise. We had one night where, instead of having a speaker, we brought several of our speakers onto the platform; and we did Q&amp;A with them. We had invited our cruise guests to submit the questions to us, ahead of time, and say: \u201cWhat do you want us to ask this panel of experts? What do you want them to address, related to marriage?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDo you know what the number-one subject was?\u2014what the questions came in for; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I have no idea, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Oh, come on! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Was it sex? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was, indeed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Look at that! My wife knew. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s why I married that woman, right there. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was, indeed, the subject of intimacy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think couples are looking for a place to be able to have a sanctified, safe conversation about the most intimate part of our marriage relationship; because a lot of couples today are finding that they are frustrated, or it\u2019s just not working the way they hoped it would. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And there are a lot of lies out there about: \u201cWhat does God think?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we need people that will be real\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and honest, with a biblical perspective; because people are wondering, \u201cWhat does God have to say about this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you\u2019ve got married couples together\u2014we have the whole ship to ourselves, and we\u2019ve got hundreds of couples\u2014this year, we had 1,500 couples; next year, on the 2020 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise, we\u2019re going to have 2,700 couples joining us. It\u2019s the largest cruise ship there is\u2014the <em>Allure of the Seas<\/em>. We\u2019re going to be going to Saint Thomas in the Virgin Islands; we\u2019re going to be going to Puerto Rico. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s our tenth-anniversary year, and we\u2019re excited about this opportunity. It\u2019s already \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t70 percent sold-out from people, who have gone before; but we wanted <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners to have an opportunity to sign up; so we\u2019re letting you know about it, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. If you sign up between now and March 25<sup>th<\/sup>\u2014and you use the promo code, \u201cCRUISE MADNESS,\u201d\u2014you can save $400 per couple off your stateroom. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com for information about how to sign up for the cruise. It really is a <em>great<\/em> week away together, and you\u2019re going to learn a lot about marriage\u2014not just sexual intimacy\u2014but we talk about issue related to conflict and all kinds of issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was interesting to see the questions that came in for the panel on this year\u2019s cruise. And as I said, we started with intimacy; because that\u2019s where most of the couples were asking questions. We had on the panel: Ron Deal, who gives leadership to FamilyLife Blended<sup>\u2122<\/sup>; Dr. Juli Slattery, who has written books about marital intimacy; D.A. and Elicia Horton\u2014D.A. is a pastor from Long Beach, California; they wrote a book called <em>Enter the Ring<\/em>, which is about the marriage relationship\u2014and then, Voddie Baucham joined us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, \u201cLet\u2019s just address the number-one question with these experts, and let\u2019s talk about marital intimacy\u201d; so that is right where we went at the beginning of this discussion on the cruise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Recorded Cruise Panel] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, let me start off with the issue a lot of people ask about: \u201cWhat do we do with the unequal interest aspect of intimacy?\u201d Interestingly, over the years, we\u2019ve had that stereotyped that it\u2019s the guy who is always interested and the woman who is not. More and more, what we are seeing at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014we\u2019re hearing from a lot of women, who are saying, \u201cI\u2019m interested; my husband is no longer interested.\u201d That\u2019s been an <em>increasing<\/em> issue. So, whether it\u2019s\u2014whether it\u2019s one\/whoever it is\u2014one person has a desire; the other person doesn\u2019t. What are your thoughts on that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> First of all, it\u2019s normal to be incompatible when it comes to sexuality. I think, sometimes, young people will say, \u201cWell, how do you know if you are going to be compatible when you get married if you don\u2019t have sex first?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cLet me just ruin it for you\u2014you won\u2019t be.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> But here is what I want people to know\u2014is that I think the incompatibility and the difference in desire is actually part of God\u2019s plan. It\u2019s not a mistake; it\u2019s not a problem\u2014it actually is what makes lovemaking force us to be unselfish. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That sounds like a trick that God played on us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Yes; it is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But you\u2019re saying it\u2019s for our good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ron, you want to chime in on this? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; I love that thought. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think: \u201cIn humility, count others more significant than yourselves, [Philippians 2:3]\u201d applies outside the bedroom just like it does inside the bedroom\u2014it\u2019s the heart of: \u201cWhat serves my spouse?\u201d <em>That<\/em> is how you begin to bridge gaps in desire, as well as: \u201cWhat do you want to have for dinner?\u201d\u2014all kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are different kinds of desire too. I think this enters into the picture. Sometimes, the way you define desire is problematic; so, typically, we think of desire as whoever initiates sex\u2014but there is actually another kind of desire\u2014and that is, if you are receptive to the idea of it. The other person may say, \u201cI\u2019m hungry for Chinese.\u201d You go: \u201cYou know, I hadn\u2019t really thought about it; but now that you have brought it up, yes; I think I could go there. Let\u2019s do that. Let\u2019s have Chinese.\u201d That\u2019s, <em>equally<\/em>, desire\u2014see; but when you are keeping score and saying, \u201cWho <em>started<\/em> sex?\u201d that equals the high-desire partner\u2014it\u2019s unnecessary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOftentimes, since men have more testosterone, we think about sex more naturally. Because of that, we\u2019re the initiators more often\u201465\/70 percent of the time\u2014but that doesn\u2019t mean she doesn\u2019t have desire. It just means she\u2019s <em>receptive<\/em> to your initiative of desire. In that sense, you both have desire. It\u2019s only when we keep score that we begin to create problems for one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, I\u2019m going to put our married couple on the spot here and just ask you guys\u2014and I know these guys well enough to know that I can put them on the spot and ask personal questions\u2014so has this issue of different desire been something you guys have had to deal with? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.:<\/strong> Yes; it has. It wasn\u2019t just, early on, in the marriage. We\u2019re about to celebrate 16 years of marriage. [Applause] Amen; praise God! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut another thing\u2014just within the nuances of our story\u2014you know, it took us five years into marriage before my wife fully became known and vulnerable by telling me she\u2019s a sexual abuse survivor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.:<\/strong> This whole time that she was rejecting my advances\u2014it just really destroyed me inside. It got to a point, where I had to say: \u201cAre you cheating on me? Is somebody else pleasuring you? Who is it? What\u2019s going on?\u201d or \u201cDang! I\u2019m not that attractive,\u201d\u2014so every single insecurity started surfacing\u2014but she was living in fear the entire time of allowing me to be the first person, on this side of eternity\u2014outside of her attackers\u2014to know what had taken place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that tension, for those five years, God kept giving us opportunities\u2014one, her for freedom; and then for me to protect you, and then for me to see how I can serve her in this area of vulnerability. So, anything you want to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Can I just say something to you?\u2014that is, I am sorry\u2014I\u2019m sorry for what you experienced, and it shouldn\u2019t have happened to anybody. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow have you processed\u2014I mean, you\u2019re 16 years into marriage; you guys have had talks and all of this\u2014is this still something that you have to wrestle with? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia:<\/strong> Yes; I feel like for me, being a survivor of that\u2014how to see how God was going to make that a part of my story. Even though it\u2019s a part of who I am and my story, it doesn\u2019t define who I am. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor <em>me<\/em>, it was about learning how to allow my husband to process <em>with<\/em> me, because I would just shut him out\u2014you know, any reflection of the past of how I was abused\u2014I would automatically shut down. It was allowing him to come into this process of hurt for me and allow\u2014and actually, for him to pastor through, which was a blessing for me to have; because I didn\u2019t know how to talk about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, I feel like, even as we\u2019re talking about transparency\u2014and I love what our brother said\u2014it\u2019s how to remember where we have to communicate these things to each other. It is about being vulnerable; it is about being transparent. Sometimes, for us\u2014because we\u2019re millennials and we love that\u2014we start there. We build from that, but it takes us communicating that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd had I not ever opened up and communicated that to him, my poor husband probably would have felt rejected every single time. It took courage from both of us to be able to be willing to talk about it but, also, be willing to work through it together. I praise God for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Voddie, what do you want to add to this? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> Yes; I think it\u2019s also important that we understand seasons and circumstances\u2014that there will be different seasons in our relationships, where our sexual intimacy will look very differently. There will be circumstances in our relationship that will cause our sexual intimacy to look very differently. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you put all this together\u2014and this whole idea of us communicating and being transparent with one another\u2014that\u2019s how we <em>navigate<\/em> the seasons and the circumstances so that it\u2019s not just: \u201cThis is not happening. Something must be wrong. There is less frequency than I would desire\u2026\u201d \/ \u201c\u2026less frequency than my spouse would desire; but here is the season that we\u2019re in. We need to make these adjustments,\u201d \/ \u201cHere are the circumstances that we\u2019re in. We need to make this adjustment,\u201d\u2014so, I think, understanding that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Then, the second thing I will add is\u2014just say, \u201cNo,\u201d to the lies and the myths. This whole idea of a wedding, and fairytale, and happily ever after\u2014we have a view of an appropriate sexual relationship in marriage that is rooted, nowhere, in reality for most of us. What we\u2019re <em>frustrated<\/em> with has nothing to do with dysfunction, necessarily, in ourselves sometimes. It has to do with completely erroneous expectations that have been <em>fed<\/em> to us by a culture that is <em>lying<\/em> to us about sexuality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It leads to\u2014people had questions about this\u2014so: \u201cWhat if the season is an extended season for one person and not for another? Is it okay for a married couple to say, \u2018We\u2019re just going to kind of be okay with being sexless in our marriage\u2019?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> First Corinthians, Chapter 7, [verse 5]: \u201c\u2026only by agreement and for a season\u2026\u201d That season ought to be discussed\u2014determined\/clear\u2014and there ought to be a <em>purpose<\/em> behind it. That\u2019s something that we ought to prioritize. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of the way that we need to change our thinking on that is to recognize that\u2014it is not only a part of that one-flesh union\u2014but it is also a living, breathing picture of the expectation and anticipation that we have of our union with Christ. This is a <em>gospel<\/em> issue\u2014sex in your marriage is a <em>gospel<\/em> issue; it is a picture-of-Christ issue; it is a desire-for-the-Lord issue\u2014so we can\u2019t ignore it; we can\u2019t just let it go. It\u2019s not something that we can just put on the back burner without being intentional. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> One of the questions that we got from people, who are here, relates to expectations about roles in our marriage. A lot of frustration expressed from wives about husbands, who are passive and won\u2019t take leadership\u2014particularly in the areas of spiritual leadership\u2014and frustrations from men, who are talking about wives who can be controlling or nagging. Okay; so, if you would say, \u201cYes, that\u2019s true in our marriage,\u201d how do you start to address those issues? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I\u2019ll go to brother Voddie for an answer on that, because I think that\u2019s something you\u2019d like to speak to. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> Yes; yes. I think I should write a book about that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or two or three, maybe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> \u2014or two or three. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think this is another area where we need to be biblical in our understanding of our roles. One of the biggest problems\u2014again, I don\u2019t want to sound like a broken record; but the culture is selling us <em>lies<\/em>. It\u2019s selling us <em>lies<\/em> about what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman. It\u2019s causing a great deal of confusion. When the culture says that biblical masculinity, as we understand it, is toxic, and wrong, and bad, that\u2019s problem number one; then, problem number two is\u2014we don\u2019t replace it with anything; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we need to go back to the Scriptures and understand that God made us different. There is a complementarity between us\u2014we are equal in <em>value<\/em>, but we bring different gifts to the table\u2014we have different roles and responsibilities. I think if we start\u2014if we start <em>there<\/em>, then, at least, the conversation has an <em>authority<\/em> other than, \u201cI feel.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cWhat I want\u2026\u201d\u2014yes; right; right\u2014so you\u2019ve got to start with that as a foundation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re sitting down, Juli, with a wife, who says: \u201cI\u2019m not attracted to my husband, because he just sits around\/doesn\u2019t do anything. He\u2019s passive. He doesn\u2019t take any spiritual leadership\u2014no engagement. I mean, how can I be attracted to a guy like that?\u201d What\u2019s your advice to <em>her<\/em>? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Well, you are talking about toxic masculinity\u2014kind of where our culture is saying that. There is also a lot of confusion for women. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd one of the things that I\u2019ve learned, as a wife and, also, as a clinical psychologist, working with couples\u2014that we don\u2019t talk about is\u2014I think women have a lot of power. We probably have more power in marriage than men do. I would say that, perhaps, is by God\u2019s design. When we look at Proverbs 14, it says, \u201cA wise woman builds her house, but with her own hands, the foolish one tears hers down,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s power. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a young wife, I really felt the Lord asking me, \u201cWhat are you going to do with your power?\u201d I think there are a lot of things that women do with their power, without realizing it, that tear their house down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What kind of power are you talking about that wives have? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s talk about a male ego. Men are very sensitive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> Do we have to? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Juli:<\/strong> We do, [Laughter] and you can chime in here. God created men with this vulnerability and their sense of competence. Who has the greatest vote, on planet earth, of whether or not you are a hero or a zero?\u2014it\u2019s your wife\u2014that\u2019s <em>power<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen my husband walks through the door\u2014even the way I frame things to my kids\u2014do I set him up to be a hero and to reflect that he is <em>my<\/em> hero? Faults\/weaknesses\u2014we\u2019ve been through a lot\u2014but he\u2019s the guy that God has given me. Calling out that hero\u2014that\u2019s power. It doesn\u2019t always look like yelling, and being loud, and demanding, but it also doesn\u2019t look like being a doormat\u2014it\u2019s asking God, \u201cGive me the wisdom to use that power well.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> D.A., if you are sitting down with a man, who says, \u201cMy wife is controlling and nagging, and I just\u2014I\u2019m so fed up with this,\u201d what\u2019s your advice to him? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.:<\/strong> Well, there are a couple things. Number one, I never want to go into the assumption that both partners are regenerate believers in Jesus Christ. So, the <em>first<\/em> thing that I want to see is: \u201cWhere are you in your relationship with God, as it relates directly to Jesus Christ?\u201d If we can help them understand: \u201cMy relationship is non-existing. How can I become a follower of Christ?\u201d\u2014you set the foundation of the marriage on the bedrock of the gospel, that every other nuance can now be brought safely into the gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think, also, it\u2019s a <em>discipleship<\/em> issue for those who <em>are<\/em> actually regenerate, Holy Spirit-filled believers of Jesus Christ. I\u2019ll be the first to admit\u2014my wife and I did not grow up in environments, where there was discipleship as a normal rhythm; so she was very frustrated. She\u2019s the wife that\u2019s sitting down, saying, \u201cI\u2019m not attracted to my husband, because he doesn\u2019t pray; he doesn\u2019t lead; he doesn\u2019t read; he doesn\u2019t do any of these things.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m like, \u201cI didn\u2019t grow up in an environment, where I saw my dad do that.\u201d As much as I say, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be like my dad,\u201d I am like my dad in some ways; but then there is also this rhythm of: \u201cOkay; now, if Elicia is coming at me trying to be controlling, well, I\u2019m just passive by nature,\u201d\u2014so that\u2019s my natural response. That\u2019s where I have to lean on the ministry of the Holy Spirit to say, \u201cI need a supernatural response to shepherd my wife\u2019s heart in this moment and create a complementary environment in our home.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s where I recognize\u2014I tell people: \u201cShe is way gifted than me in various areas of our marriage,\u201d and \u201cI empower her; and I love her; and I esteem her; and I affirm her when it comes to the areas where she\u2019s strong; but at the same time, she recognizes her weaknesses; and she\u2019s leaning on me to be strong. That\u2019s where we develop\u2014not independence or co-dependence\u2014but inter-dependency and when the Holy Spirit is at work in both of us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s where I would challenge that man to consider: \u201cWho is your wife walking in discipleship with if she is a follower in Christ? Who are older women or younger women\u2014or peers\u2014pouring into her?\u2014walking her through biblical truth that she can process and engage with?\u201d\u2014but then, at the same time\u2014\u201cWho are the men in your life that are challenging you and calling you to a higher standard?\u201d Then we can stumble through the nuances of what it looks like to love your wife\/to lead her; but at the same time, empower and affirm for her to walk in the area of giftedness and strength that she is wired by God to walk in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, that was D.A. Horton who was on a panel, along with Juli Slattery and Ron Deal, Voddie Baucham, and D.A.\u2019s wife Elicia. This was on board the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise a few weeks ago. That question about roles in marriage was, I think, prompted by a lot of wives, who wonder, \u201cIs it legitimate for me to expect that my husband is going to lead us, spiritually, in our marriage relationship?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think a lot of women\u2014we wonder what that even means. It is a biblical concept; but I don\u2019t think we\u2019re sure what that entails, what it means, and what our part is; so I love that they went there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; a lot of wives have a phantom picture of what that is supposed to mean. They think it\u2019s going to mean\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I had that phantom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was going to jump in\u2014my wife had that picture\u2014and I\u2019ve got to say, \u201cYou guys went into\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you were real in this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201con that panel.\u201d What a <em>great<\/em> panel for people\u2014in the area of sex and other areas\u2014but then, you know, when Ann and I got married, we struggled quite a bit. Actually, she did, more than me, <em>with<\/em> me; because I was not meeting the expectations she thought a spiritual leader\u2014spiritual man\/husband\u2014would look like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I think that\u2019s why it is good to talk about it; because we have expectations of what we think it should be. Then, when those expectations aren\u2019t met, we\u2019re disappointed; so I love how they talked about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and here is what happens\u2014you have a panel like this one night, on board the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise; and that evening or the next day, you\u2019ve got an extended period of time, as a couple, to say, \u201cWhat did you think about what they said last night?\u201d or \u201cYou know what I\u2019ve been thinking about?\u201d\u2014just to process. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMost of the time, in our schedule\/in our lives, we might hear something like this; and we go, \u201cThat was good,\u201d\u2014and then, we\u2019re on to the next thing\u2014but when you\u2019re seven days on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise, you\u2019re just thinking, and talking, and processing, and really working out some stuff in your marriage relationship. That\u2019s why couples say to us, all the time: \u201cWe come off the cruise more connected\/more in love. We have built into our marriage.\u201d It\u2019s not just, \u201cWe had a great time in the Caribbean,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s, \u201cWe built into our marriage.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, and sometimes, people can\u2019t afford to go on the cruise\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014but it doesn\u2019t mean we shouldn\u2019t have those conversations of going deeper. Even listening to this today, you might write down a few questions and ask, \u201cHmm, I could ask this to my spouse on a date night or even tonight\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand ask his thoughts on this\u2014what do he think about this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think you could do it on the bathtub and pretend you\u2019re on a boat. [Laughter] It\u2019s like, \u201cWe\u2019re on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> bathtub cruise,\u201d\u2014you know? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You can send your spouse a link to today\u2019s program and listen to it\u2014maybe, not at the same time; but both of you listen to it\u2014and then say: \u201cWhat jumped out to you?\u201d or \u201cWhat question would you ask if you had a chance to ask the panel a question?\u201d In fact, we are going to hear more, this week, from this panel\u2014other questions that came in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, I want to remind listeners\u2014the 2020 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise\u2014the one we\u2019re doing next February, Valentine\u2019s Week, February 9<sup>th<\/sup> through the 16<sup>th<\/sup>\u2014it\u2019s \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t70 percent sold-out as of today. Over the next couple of weeks, we expect it to, maybe, fill all the way up. Right now, we\u2019ve got a special offer for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners, where you can attend the 2020 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise and save $400 per couple off your stateroom; but that offer is available between now and March 25<sup>th<\/sup>. You have to use the promo code, which is \u201cCRUISE MADNESS,\u201d to take advantage of that. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, if you want more information about the 2020 cruise; or if you\u2019d like to register, call 1-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis and Barbara Rainey will be back with us on the cruise next year. Dave and Ann Wilson will be joining us. Dr. Gary Chapman is going to join us. Ron Deal will be on board. I will be on board, along with my wife Mary Ann. We hope you\u2019ll join us for the 2020 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise on board the <em>Allure of the Seas<\/em>\u2014one of the largest cruise ships in the world. Again, more information, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014plan to join us, in 2020, for the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear from our panel again as they answer questions about: \u201cWhat you do if your marriage is in the doldrums?\u2014if you just don\u2019t have anything in common anymore?\u2014you don\u2019t like spending time together anymore?\u201d We\u2019re also going to hear about how you rebuild trust when there has been a betrayal in a marriage relationship. I hope you can tune in for that tomorrow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300083","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300083"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300083"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300083"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300083"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300083"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300083"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300083"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}