{"id":300069,"date":"2019-02-27T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-02-27T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/what-weve-learned-about-trials\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:16","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:16","slug":"what-weve-learned-about-trials","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-weve-learned-about-trials\/","title":{"rendered":"What We&#8217;ve Learned about Trials"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Ann Wilson, Dave Wilson | Series: Things We&#8217;ve Learned from Dennis and Barbara Rainey | Pastor Dave Wilson and his wife, Ann, who are longtime FamilyLife speakers, talk about all they&#8217;ve learned from watching the Raineys, especially as they walked through trials. The Raineys tell what kept them going through the hardships, like Barbara&#8217;s heart issues, a son&#8217;s diagnosis of MS, and losing a grandchild. Dave and Ann also answer Dennis&#8217; favorite question: What is the most courageous thing you&#8217;ve ever done?<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<br \/>\n40 Years of Faithfulness 2 CD set<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dave Wilson and his wife, Ann, talk about all they&#8217;ve learned from watching the Raineys walk through trials. Dave and Ann also answer Dennis&#8217; favorite question: What is the most courageous thing you&#8217;ve ever done?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-02-27.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:31:34","filesize":"28.91M","filesize_raw":"30309771","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2810,2844,2862],"tags":[2872,4124,4125,4096,4121,4126,2989,4122,4123],"podcast_series":[7172],"cwp_profile":[3554,3295],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300069","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-spiritually","category-pornography","category-understanding-differences","tag-addiction","tag-hardships","tag-loss","tag-mentoring","tag-mentors","tag-ministry","tag-pornography","tag-teaching-by-example","tag-trials","podcast_series-things-weve-learned-from-dennis-and-barbara-rainey","cwp_profile-ann-wilson","cwp_profile-dave-wilson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300069\/what-weve-learned-about-trials","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300069\/what-weve-learned-about-trials","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"i6ad1N3blQ\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-weve-learned-about-trials\/\">What We&#8217;ve Learned about Trials<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-weve-learned-about-trials\/embed\/#?secret=i6ad1N3blQ\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;What We&#8217;ve Learned about Trials&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"i6ad1N3blQ\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-02-27.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-02-27.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of the things that Dave and Ann Wilson\u2014and for that matter, all of us\u2014have learned from Dennis and Barbara Rainey over the years is how to walk through valleys and keep your eyes where they belong. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong><a id=\"_Hlk1056997\">I\u2019ve seen you guys\u2014and because we\u2019ve known you for 30 years\u2014you\u2019ve gone through some trials; you\u2019ve gone through a lot. One of the things that I\u2019ve always watched, and I love about you, is: one, is you\u2019ll go there and you\u2019ll talk about it. You\u2019re very authentic in the pain of it, but here\u2019s the other thing\u2014that you\u2019ve been amazing and so inspiring\u2014is, when you could have been really depressed and discouraged and hopeless, you always had your eyes on Jesus.<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, February 27<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. Looking back over the last few decades of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, there have been a lot of lessons we have all learned from Dennis and Barbara Rainey\u2019s lives. We\u2019ll celebrate and hear more about that today from Dave and Ann Wilson. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. This feels a little bit like that place in America, where they brought the railroad together; you know? They drove the spike there in the middle, between\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Were you there? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a id=\"_Hlk1306486\"><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think he was!<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>His fear\u2014he was!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That is so cold! I was about to introduce the new hosts of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> but not anymore!\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re going to keep the old! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019ll get somebody else to do this!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>A career limiting move. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How would you like to be married to that? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There you go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s a great question!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That voice you heard was Dave Wilson the former new host!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is a transitional period. This week, we are joining together what has been 26 years of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with what is the future of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and making a handoff to a couple, who have been friends for a very long time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And Bob, since you\u2019ve been in the studio with Dave and Ann and seen them in action more than I have\u2014because you\u2019ve already begun cutting some broadcasts with them that will be aired in the future days and months ahead\u2014what would you say are their <em>unique<\/em> distinctives that they bring to <em>FamilyLife Today?<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, the first thing I\u2019d say is that they bring continuity. That\u2019s not unique; but listeners, who have tuned in to hear practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and your family\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They\u2019ve got the DNA.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014they\u2019re not going to be disappointed. They\u2019re going to continue getting practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and your family. That\u2019s what <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is all about, regardless of who winds up sitting in any of these chairs. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I do think they bring life experience; they bring honesty; they bring transparency; they bring the fact that they have been involved in local church ministry. Dave\u2019s been a pastor of Kensington Church in the suburban Detroit area for decades. They helped found that church together, and Ann\u2019s been involved in ministry there as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd they\u2019ve done life-on-life with a lot of those people. You\u2019ve been in discipleship situations, regularly, with couples who are challenged in their marriage \/ couples who are dealing with parenting issues. You bring a lot of that wisdom from seeing those experiences and helping walk couples through them into what we\u2019re going to experience on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,going forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to ask the same question of my bride, Barbara, who joins us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>You are? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I am. And I have the answer if you don\u2019t know. What would you say is <em>unique<\/em> about Ann as she comes to the table, here, to help host <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with her husband Dave?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Well, what first popped into my head is I think Ann is spunkier than I am. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I actually had the word, sassy. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Sassy. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think both of those may be applicable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Both of those are true?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>I just think she brings an energy that will be really fun for listeners to hear as she and Dave interact together, because she\u2019s not afraid to interrupt and engage. That\u2019s really healthy and good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019ve been asking both of you guys [Dave and Ann] this week to just reflect on some of the things you\u2019ve learned from observing Dennis and Barbara over the years. You\u2019ve known one another for over three decades now. You\u2019ve observed them for even longer than that. As you\u2019ve gotten to know them\u2014<a id=\"_Hlk1055075\">as you\u2019ve listened to <\/a>them \/ as you\u2019ve listened to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014what\u2019s something that stands out that you think has been a learning point you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Here\u2019s a learning\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was asking Ann!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What happened?! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You hang on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No, no, no! Watch this! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh! Here we go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Here\u2019s what I was going to do\u2014I was going to say one of the things I learned from Dennis is to always honor your spouse. I was going to say, \u201cLet\u2019s have Ann go first.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ohh\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, you\u2019re so good; you\u2019re amazing!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You took it away from him, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You took it right away!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He had a chance to get one point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Don\u2019t ever do that again, Bob!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to give you ten points for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Ten! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>What does that mean? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know; we\u2019ll see!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We got to end this broadcast early! [Laughter] That\u2019s all I got to say!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, boy; here we go. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s one of the things that I\u2019ve put on my list about what you guys have taught. Actually, I would say we <em>caught<\/em> this more than hearing you teach it; and that is, watching you go through trials. I\u2019ve seen you guys\u2014and because we\u2019ve known you for 30 years\u2014you\u2019ve gone through some trials. I\u2019m thinking back on your health, Barbara\u2014your heart issues\u2014I have Samuel\u2019s leg and all the issues that came along with that. You can elaborate on this more\u2014but losing a grandchild.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014grandchild.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Losing a grandchild, even having rebellious kids. You\u2019ve gone through a lot. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that I\u2019ve always watched, and I love about you, is: one, you\u2019ll go there and you\u2019ll talk about it. You\u2019re very authentic in the pain of it, but here\u2019s the other thing\u2014 that you\u2019ve been amazing and so inspiring\u2014is, when you could have been really depressed and discouraged and hopeless, you always had your eyes on Jesus. You always have your eyes on the Father; you always put your trust in Him. That, to me, was one of the most inspiring things I\u2019ve seen in people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> I think I want to restate what you just said.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> You said, as I heard it\u2014instead of being depressed and hopeless and whatever, we put our eyes on Jesus. I would say, \u201c<em>When<\/em> we were depressed and hopeless, we put our eyes on Jesus,\u201d because it\u2019s not that we never went there; it\u2019s just that, when we were there, we looked to Him; because He was the only source of hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>I\u2019m grateful for those experiences because of what they\u2019ve taught me about Him. It\u2019s deepened our marriage, too, because we have experienced this together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong>I think, for some couples, it pulls them apart. How did it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Oh, it can!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>How did you not let that happen?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think, for a period of time\u2014when Barbara nearly died with her heart racing to 300 beats a minute and beating that way for eight hours, and then we found out she was pregnant. We wondered if she would be able to give birth to a healthy child. So there was all the fear of that, moving forward. I think it takes you back to the very roots of your faith. The time you build your faith is <em>not<\/em> when it\u2019s raining; it\u2019s not when the floods come; it\u2019s not when the wind is bursting against your house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe time you build your house foundation is <em>now<\/em>\u2014one step at a time\/one act of obedience. Jesus, in Matthew 7, says, \u201cHe who hears these words of Mine, and does them, will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock,\u201d\u2014hearing, which means, as Bob talked about on an earlier broadcast, intake\u2014receiving the words of life from the Bible and then doing them\/being obedient. James says, \u201cTo him who knows what is right but does not do it, to him it\u2019s sin.\u201d You don\u2019t toy around with temptation\u2014you put it to death. You build your house on the Rock. And that way, when the floods do come\u2014it\u2019s not a matter of <em>if<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve started listening to your list and I thought, \u201cWe\u2019ve really lived quite a while.\u201d You know, we\u2019ve been married, now, 46 years; we have been in some tough spots\u2014tough spots that we\u2019ve made public and tough spots that we couldn\u2019t make public. The issue is\u2014we never wavered the bottom line of life: \u201cWho is our Master? Who is our Lord? Who was worthy of us trusting and placing our hope in?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s Jesus Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, you brought up Matthew 7\u2014Jesus\u2019 conclusion to The Sermon on the Mount. We might be able to do a word search and figure this out, but that may be the passage\u2014more than any other passage, over 26 years\u2014that you have shared about when to build the foundation. Our church is going through a building project right now. There was a season, where I was going: \u201cIs the foundation poured yet?\u201d And they were saying: \u201cWe can\u2019t because of the weather. The rain is so bad; you can\u2019t pour a foundation in the rain. It\u2019s got to be dry for the foundation to be poured.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the illustration, that you\u2019re giving here. The foundation for your life and your marriage is not going to be poured well in a rainstorm or a snowstorm. It\u2019s going to be poured well when things are going right, which is why we tell couples: \u201cDon\u2019t go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> when your marriage is in trouble. Go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> long before your marriage gets in trouble, so that you can pour the foundation so, when trouble comes, you know what to do with it,\u201d\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Although we are <em>not<\/em> saying, \u201cDon\u2019t go when your marriage is in trouble.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara and Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: \u201c<\/strong>Go then, too\u201d; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cGo at all times.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would just add to Ann\u2019s learning\u2014listening to you, over the years, share your struggle gives everyone of us help\/gives us hope; because number one, you\u2019re vulnerable. You\u2019re sharing things that are hard to share. A lot of couples <em>never<\/em> let people in that valley. You\u2019re letting us in; and yet\u2014when we are in that valley or headed to that valley\u2014we have a couple\/we have a story, like: \u201cThey made it. They kept their eyes on Jesus,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s so inspiring. That\u2019s why it\u2019s such a learning for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven thinking about <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, going forward, here is what I hope the listeners will get, as a guarantee from us. We will <em>always<\/em> give the brokenness; and at the same time, there will be victory. It\u2019s going to be vulnerable and the Resurrection\u2014you\u2019re going to get both. You\u2019re not just going to get brokenness; you\u2019re going to get both, because there is Jesus always in the middle of that storm\u2014that\u2019s the Rock. You are <em>always<\/em> going to get that on this program.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, I want to go to a question that I asked you earlier this week. In an effort to let our listeners get to know you in a personal way, \u201cWhat\u2019s the most courageous thing you have ever done in all your life?\u201d I\u2019ll just remind our listeners, who haven\u2019t heard me ask this question before\u2014because I\u2019ve met you\u2014and you can always spot a listener; because they\u2019ll come up and say, \u201cLet me tell you <em>my<\/em> most courageous thing,\u201d because they have heard me mention it so many times, they\u2019ve got it nailed. It\u2019s doing your duty in the face of fear. It\u2019s not the absence of fear; it\u2019s fear and faith colliding, and it\u2019s choosing to believe and to step out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you have an answer for that, Dave?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I do. It\u2019s interesting\u2014when I went to make my list of lessons learned from the Raineys, it was number one\u2014it\u2019s the <em>first<\/em> memory I have. I don\u2019t know if <em>you\u2019ll<\/em> remember it; but when we came to this building that we\u2019re sitting in right now\u2014FamilyLife Headquarters\u2014to interview to be a speaker on the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> speaker team, Ann and I\u2014you didn\u2019t know this\u2014but while we were flying down here, we\u2019re going: \u201cOh my gosh! I\u2019ve never met Dennis Rainey.\u201d I\u2019ve only heard you from the stage at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>\u2014nervous. We hope we can do this; we want to do this, but there\u2019s the Interview. And it\u2019s not done until Dennis says, \u201cYou\u2019re in,\u201d\u2014the President has to say, \u201cYou\u2019re in.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re <em>nervous<\/em>. We\u2019re literally role playing on the plane what questions you\u2019re probably going to ask and how we\u2019re going to answer it. [Laughter] We are on the plane, going [to the interview]: \u201cHe\u2019ll probably ask this,\u201d \u201cOkay; what will we say?\u201d Okay; so we are trying to get all the questions right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe do a little tour of this building\u2014first time we are ever here. They take us into your office\u2014sat down, across from your desk. You came in, sat down and introduced yourself, and asked us how we were doing\u2014blah, blah, blah. Then you said it\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014maybe you did this with everybody, but this is what you did with me\u2014you said, \u201cI have one question, \u2018Are you clean?\u2019\u201d And you <em>would not<\/em> take your eyes off me. It was an awkward silence like this [pause], and I said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It was awkward for <em>me<\/em>; because I\u2019m thinking, \u201cYou better be clean!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ll never forget. I looked at you and said, \u201cYes; I am clean.\u201d <em>Immediately<\/em>, you looked at Ann and said, \u201cIs he telling me the truth?\u201d And she said, \u201cYes,\u201d and you go, \u201cOkay; you\u2019re in.\u201d I don\u2019t know if you remember this\u2014I go, \u201cWhat do you mean we\u2019re in?!\u201d You go, \u201cYou guys are on the speaker team.\u201d I go, \u201cAre we good enough?!\u201d He said, \u201cYes; you\u2019re decent,\u201d\u2014you know, it\u2019s that kind of thing. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA couple of learnings here. The first one was: \u201cOh my gosh; this isn\u2019t about talent; this isn\u2019t about speaking skill\u2014to be able get up on a stage and present. This is about character.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So here\u2019s where it ties into the most courageous thing I\u2019ve ever done. One of the reasons I could look at you that day and say, \u201cYes; I am clean,\u201d is\u2014probably about 18 months, or two years\/maybe, three years before that moment\u2014I had to look at my wife, in our family room, and tell her I had a struggle with pornography. That was the scariest moment that I could remember in my life, because I had <em>hid<\/em> it for a period of time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe knew something was going on; because I am a pastor\/I\u2019m a spiritual leader and, yet, I have this secret. It was the only time, and the first we ever had a secret; and she didn\u2019t even know. She would ask me: \u201dYou looked at anything?\u2014doing anything?\u201d And I literally would lie to her; then go to my accountability group, with three other guys, who were holding each other accountable and lie to them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne day, I had to, you know\u2014and Ann can tell you\u2014but I told her: \u201cI\u2018ve been struggling with something, and this is what it is.\u201d That started a whole new journey for our marriage to the point to where I could look at you, two years later and say, \u201cYes; I am clean.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, I\u2019m not saying I\u2019ve never struggled\u2014I don\u2019t\u2014it was just like, \u201cNo; I am clean.\u201d I don\u2019t think I would have ever been able to answer that question with a \u201cYes,\u201d if I hadn\u2019t brought it to my wife and those guys in my life and said: \u201cI\u2018ve got to be honest here. I\u2019m struggling with something. We\u2019ve got to\u2014I need your help.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And Ann, do you remember how you responded to his statement?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, Dennis, why did you have to ask that?!\u2014because I was not gracious in the <em>least<\/em>. I was hurt; I was angry\u2014I felt incredibly insecure. I thought it was all about <em>me<\/em> and my lack of\u2014it was really hard. I was angry, because I felt like he had lied to me for a while; and he never had before. We know everything about each other, and this was a secret. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was really glad that he had told me, but I was scared about where it would lead: \u201cIs this the end? Will it be done here? Is that it? Is it going to be a continuous struggle? Will it last?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt took me a long time to trust you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014and to not be angry about it and not take it personally.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I had to learn\u2014when you break trust, it\u2019s that quick\u2014you know, one decision; you break trust. To regain trust\u2014is you\u2019re rebuilding a <em>whole<\/em> castle you\u2019ve torn down, piece by piece. Again, I wanted her\u2014because I had now confessed\u2014I wanted her to immediately trust me. I learned\u2014over years, really: \u201cI\u2019ve got to rebuild that trust.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And I am <em>so<\/em> glad that he told me, because I feel like there are no secrets. I know everything about him\u2014I know his struggles; he knows my struggles\u2014but it wasn\u2019t easy for sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; we know a lot of couples have been through\u2014we wrote two chapters on it in our book\u2014just about this struggle\u2014because it\u2019s so prevalent in so many couples. Yet, I would look back and say that was really a courageous moment for me. I\u2019m not proud of it at all, but I thank God that He has restored trust and honor in our marriage and given me the ability\/power through Christ to win this battle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What about you?\u2014most courageous thing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019d be great to have a day to process, you know, what was the most; but the thing that popped into my head right away was being 18 years old and working my summer job to make money to go into college. I was working at Whirlpool in a factory, shooting screws on the assembly line. I had been a Christian for two years. I was playing the game\u2014I was dating a guy; I was having sex with him. I was not living the life that I read about in the Bible. I had finally had it. I was shooting these screws and having this deep conversation with God. This took courage on my part, because I was a first-generation Christian. I\u2019ve never seen it lived out; I\u2019ve never watched it. You know they didn\u2019t have the podcasts, and the YouTube, and all the things you could watch.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started going to church by myself; but on <em>this<\/em> day, I told God: \u201cGod I\u2019m done playing this Christian game. I want You to have all of me\u2014all of me. I will go wherever You call me; I will do whatever You tell me to do. I will marry or not marry. I will break up with this guy that I am dating. I am all Yours forever and ever. I want to walk with You; I want to serve You; and I want You to use me to do whatever You want. But I\u2019d love for You to use me to change the world.\u201d I didn\u2019t even know what that meant\u2014what it looked like\u2014but I was like: \u201cGod, just use me to do <em>anything<\/em>. I want to know You,\u201d\u2014like I <em>knew<\/em> Him, but I wanted the relationship\u2014that He was my closest friend, my God, my King, my Savior. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was scary, because I had an idea of what Christians were. In the back of my mind, I was thinking, \u201cBut don\u2019t send me to Detroit to be a pastor\u2019s wife.\u201d [Laughter] I didn\u2019t care! I think I held a lot back [before this commitment]\u2014like: \u201cI didn\u2019t want to be one of those weird Christians.\u201d I didn\u2019t even know what a weird Christian was; but I had all these \u201cDon\u2019t do this..\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t take away my boyfriend,\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t\u2026\u201d\u2014but I was just done with that. I wanted to <em>do<\/em> what He wanted me to do and walk where He wanted me to walk. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was so interesting\u2014I mean, it was <em>freedom<\/em>. It was the first time I felt <em>free<\/em> in anticipation of what God could do. I know that looks different for everybody. But the crazy thing is\u2014I did that: I broke up with the boyfriend the very next day; I became one of those people that were probably very obnoxious to their family\u2014I\u2019d walk in the door, like, \u201cWe\u2019re all going to hell unless we know Jesus!\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know, just totally irritating! I didn\u2019t know anything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hey, you got to tell who you met that week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was going to say: \u201cAnd that week, I met Dave.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I was praying\u2014I said, \u201cI don\u2019t even want to be in a relationship unless <em>You<\/em> are a part of it\u2014You are the <em>center<\/em> of it.\u201d Dave and I were married within the <em>year<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Isn\u2019t that crazy?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m sittinghere, thinking\u2014just [as] we started this broadcast\u2014you, Ann, raising the issue of how we handled trials, suffering, difficult periods in our marriage. You both have modelled how you do that\u2014yours [Ann]: modelling surrender\u2014that\u2019s where it begins; and Dave, you modelling repentance\u2014because it isn\u2019t a matter of <em>if<\/em> you\u2019ll sin; it\u2019s a matter of <em>when<\/em>, and <em>how often<\/em>, and what you do with that sin\u2014and whether you confess it, and repent of it, and turn your back on it, and turn to the Savior, and also turn to your spouse and model humility.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think our listeners have <em>a lot<\/em> of great years to look forward to here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, one way for listeners to get to know you guys better is to get a copy of your [Dave and Ann\u2019s] new book, <em>Vertical Marriage,<\/em> which is a book we\u2019ve got, here, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. We\u2019d love to send you a copy. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order it, or call us to request your copy: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can order <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> when you call 1-<a id=\"_Hlk1303874\">800-358-6329<\/a>\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs we spend time this week just reflecting on and celebrating the life and the legacy of Dennis and Barbara\u2014looking back on the last 26-plus years of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> being on the air\u2014we thought it would be fun to offer a special gift to our listeners. We\u2019ve got a lot of listeners who have joined us recently and don\u2019t know much about your [Dennis and Barbara\u2019s] history, your background, how God\u2019s been at work through your ministry in the early years. The three of us sat down, not long ago\u2014we kind of walked through the first 40 years of this ministry, starting in 1976\u2014looked at the high points: things God has done, how He has used this ministry, lives that have been impacted\u2014pretty remarkable journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe captured that on two audio CDs. We\u2019d love to send you those CDs so that you can find out more about FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and just request them\u2014we\u2019ll send them to you at no cost. Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com. Just give us your name and address and say, \u201cI\u2019d like those CDs,\u201d and we\u2019ll get them out to you. Or you can call and order them\u2014again, no cost\u2014call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u2014and ask for the audio CDs of the first four decades of the ministry of FamilyLife. We hope you enjoy hearing about how God\u2019s been at work through this ministry since 1976.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, before we wrap up things here today, we\u2019ve got some final thoughts from the new President of FamilyLife, David Robbins, who is here joining us. Hey, David.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>Hey, Bob. I just want to echo today what Dennis and Barbara said and how excited I am that Dave and Ann Wilson will be hosting <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in this next chapter. I love their passion for Jesus and for each other. I love their equal passion to provide practical help to marriages and families. That\u2019s part of their story\u2014to give people the timeless truth of God\u2019s Word around marriage and family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd in knowing them, I can guarantee you this\u2014I guarantee you that they will live out what they said. They will lead with authenticity; they will surrender frequently; and they will repent and let it show on air with us. They are gifted people, but their character runs even deeper than their giftedness. I am so grateful for their joining the team. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, as they express their vulnerability and confidence in God\u2019s grace, it will inspire <em>us<\/em>. It inspires <em>me<\/em> to face what\u2019s going on beneath the surface in my own life and be able to have real hope in God\u2019s grace. Along the way, I think we\u2019ll laugh, and we\u2019ll cry <em>a lot<\/em>. You know, for me, personally, as we build a team of multi-generational voices to ensure FamilyLife continues to provide some of the best practical biblical help and hope [for] marriage and family in the future, I couldn\u2019t be more grateful that Dave and Ann are joining the team. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, I think you\u2019d agree with me that it\u2019s going to be a lot of fun.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; it is. These transitions are bittersweet, but we believe God\u2019s got great days ahead for FamilyLife. In fact, we hope you can join us back tomorrow when we are going to hear some stories from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners\u2014ways that some of you have been impacted by Dennis and Barbara\u2019s lives and ministry over the years. We\u2019ll hear that tomorrow, and I hope you can join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:31:34"],"show_notes":[""],"filesize":["28.91M"],"filesize_raw":["30309771"],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-300069.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-300069.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Wilson and his wife, Ann, talk about all they've learned from watching the Raineys walk through trials. Dave and Ann also answer Dennis' favorite question: What is the most courageous thing you've ever done?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-02-27.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of the things that Dave and Ann Wilson\u2014and for that matter, all of us\u2014have learned from Dennis and Barbara Rainey over the years is how to walk through valleys and keep your eyes where they belong. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong><a id=\"_Hlk1056997\">I\u2019ve seen you guys\u2014and because we\u2019ve known you for 30 years\u2014you\u2019ve gone through some trials; you\u2019ve gone through a lot. One of the things that I\u2019ve always watched, and I love about you, is: one, is you\u2019ll go there and you\u2019ll talk about it. You\u2019re very authentic in the pain of it, but here\u2019s the other thing\u2014that you\u2019ve been amazing and so inspiring\u2014is, when you could have been really depressed and discouraged and hopeless, you always had your eyes on Jesus.<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, February 27<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. Looking back over the last few decades of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, there have been a lot of lessons we have all learned from Dennis and Barbara Rainey\u2019s lives. We\u2019ll celebrate and hear more about that today from Dave and Ann Wilson. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. This feels a little bit like that place in America, where they brought the railroad together; you know? They drove the spike there in the middle, between\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Were you there? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a id=\"_Hlk1306486\"><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think he was!<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>His fear\u2014he was!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That is so cold! I was about to introduce the new hosts of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> but not anymore!\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re going to keep the old! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019ll get somebody else to do this!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>A career limiting move. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How would you like to be married to that? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There you go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s a great question!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That voice you heard was Dave Wilson the former new host!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is a transitional period. This week, we are joining together what has been 26 years of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with what is the future of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and making a handoff to a couple, who have been friends for a very long time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And Bob, since you\u2019ve been in the studio with Dave and Ann and seen them in action more than I have\u2014because you\u2019ve already begun cutting some broadcasts with them that will be aired in the future days and months ahead\u2014what would you say are their <em>unique<\/em> distinctives that they bring to <em>FamilyLife Today?<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, the first thing I\u2019d say is that they bring continuity. That\u2019s not unique; but listeners, who have tuned in to hear practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and your family\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They\u2019ve got the DNA.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014they\u2019re not going to be disappointed. They\u2019re going to continue getting practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and your family. That\u2019s what <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is all about, regardless of who winds up sitting in any of these chairs. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I do think they bring life experience; they bring honesty; they bring transparency; they bring the fact that they have been involved in local church ministry. Dave\u2019s been a pastor of Kensington Church in the suburban Detroit area for decades. They helped found that church together, and Ann\u2019s been involved in ministry there as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd they\u2019ve done life-on-life with a lot of those people. You\u2019ve been in discipleship situations, regularly, with couples who are challenged in their marriage \/ couples who are dealing with parenting issues. You bring a lot of that wisdom from seeing those experiences and helping walk couples through them into what we\u2019re going to experience on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,going forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to ask the same question of my bride, Barbara, who joins us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>You are? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I am. And I have the answer if you don\u2019t know. What would you say is <em>unique<\/em> about Ann as she comes to the table, here, to help host <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with her husband Dave?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Well, what first popped into my head is I think Ann is spunkier than I am. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I actually had the word, sassy. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Sassy. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think both of those may be applicable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Both of those are true?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>I just think she brings an energy that will be really fun for listeners to hear as she and Dave interact together, because she\u2019s not afraid to interrupt and engage. That\u2019s really healthy and good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019ve been asking both of you guys [Dave and Ann] this week to just reflect on some of the things you\u2019ve learned from observing Dennis and Barbara over the years. You\u2019ve known one another for over three decades now. You\u2019ve observed them for even longer than that. As you\u2019ve gotten to know them\u2014<a id=\"_Hlk1055075\">as you\u2019ve listened to <\/a>them \/ as you\u2019ve listened to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014what\u2019s something that stands out that you think has been a learning point you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Here\u2019s a learning\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was asking Ann!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What happened?! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You hang on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No, no, no! Watch this! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh! Here we go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Here\u2019s what I was going to do\u2014I was going to say one of the things I learned from Dennis is to always honor your spouse. I was going to say, \u201cLet\u2019s have Ann go first.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ohh\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, you\u2019re so good; you\u2019re amazing!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You took it away from him, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You took it right away!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He had a chance to get one point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Don\u2019t ever do that again, Bob!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to give you ten points for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Ten! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>What does that mean? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know; we\u2019ll see!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We got to end this broadcast early! [Laughter] That\u2019s all I got to say!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, boy; here we go. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s one of the things that I\u2019ve put on my list about what you guys have taught. Actually, I would say we <em>caught<\/em> this more than hearing you teach it; and that is, watching you go through trials. I\u2019ve seen you guys\u2014and because we\u2019ve known you for 30 years\u2014you\u2019ve gone through some trials. I\u2019m thinking back on your health, Barbara\u2014your heart issues\u2014I have Samuel\u2019s leg and all the issues that came along with that. You can elaborate on this more\u2014but losing a grandchild.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014grandchild.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Losing a grandchild, even having rebellious kids. You\u2019ve gone through a lot. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that I\u2019ve always watched, and I love about you, is: one, you\u2019ll go there and you\u2019ll talk about it. You\u2019re very authentic in the pain of it, but here\u2019s the other thing\u2014 that you\u2019ve been amazing and so inspiring\u2014is, when you could have been really depressed and discouraged and hopeless, you always had your eyes on Jesus. You always have your eyes on the Father; you always put your trust in Him. That, to me, was one of the most inspiring things I\u2019ve seen in people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> I think I want to restate what you just said.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> You said, as I heard it\u2014instead of being depressed and hopeless and whatever, we put our eyes on Jesus. I would say, \u201c<em>When<\/em> we were depressed and hopeless, we put our eyes on Jesus,\u201d because it\u2019s not that we never went there; it\u2019s just that, when we were there, we looked to Him; because He was the only source of hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>I\u2019m grateful for those experiences because of what they\u2019ve taught me about Him. It\u2019s deepened our marriage, too, because we have experienced this together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong>I think, for some couples, it pulls them apart. How did it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Oh, it can!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>How did you not let that happen?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think, for a period of time\u2014when Barbara nearly died with her heart racing to 300 beats a minute and beating that way for eight hours, and then we found out she was pregnant. We wondered if she would be able to give birth to a healthy child. So there was all the fear of that, moving forward. I think it takes you back to the very roots of your faith. The time you build your faith is <em>not<\/em> when it\u2019s raining; it\u2019s not when the floods come; it\u2019s not when the wind is bursting against your house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe time you build your house foundation is <em>now<\/em>\u2014one step at a time\/one act of obedience. Jesus, in Matthew 7, says, \u201cHe who hears these words of Mine, and does them, will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock,\u201d\u2014hearing, which means, as Bob talked about on an earlier broadcast, intake\u2014receiving the words of life from the Bible and then doing them\/being obedient. James says, \u201cTo him who knows what is right but does not do it, to him it\u2019s sin.\u201d You don\u2019t toy around with temptation\u2014you put it to death. You build your house on the Rock. And that way, when the floods do come\u2014it\u2019s not a matter of <em>if<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve started listening to your list and I thought, \u201cWe\u2019ve really lived quite a while.\u201d You know, we\u2019ve been married, now, 46 years; we have been in some tough spots\u2014tough spots that we\u2019ve made public and tough spots that we couldn\u2019t make public. The issue is\u2014we never wavered the bottom line of life: \u201cWho is our Master? Who is our Lord? Who was worthy of us trusting and placing our hope in?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s Jesus Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, you brought up Matthew 7\u2014Jesus\u2019 conclusion to The Sermon on the Mount. We might be able to do a word search and figure this out, but that may be the passage\u2014more than any other passage, over 26 years\u2014that you have shared about when to build the foundation. Our church is going through a building project right now. There was a season, where I was going: \u201cIs the foundation poured yet?\u201d And they were saying: \u201cWe can\u2019t because of the weather. The rain is so bad; you can\u2019t pour a foundation in the rain. It\u2019s got to be dry for the foundation to be poured.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the illustration, that you\u2019re giving here. The foundation for your life and your marriage is not going to be poured well in a rainstorm or a snowstorm. It\u2019s going to be poured well when things are going right, which is why we tell couples: \u201cDon\u2019t go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> when your marriage is in trouble. Go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> long before your marriage gets in trouble, so that you can pour the foundation so, when trouble comes, you know what to do with it,\u201d\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Although we are <em>not<\/em> saying, \u201cDon\u2019t go when your marriage is in trouble.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara and Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: \u201c<\/strong>Go then, too\u201d; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cGo at all times.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would just add to Ann\u2019s learning\u2014listening to you, over the years, share your struggle gives everyone of us help\/gives us hope; because number one, you\u2019re vulnerable. You\u2019re sharing things that are hard to share. A lot of couples <em>never<\/em> let people in that valley. You\u2019re letting us in; and yet\u2014when we are in that valley or headed to that valley\u2014we have a couple\/we have a story, like: \u201cThey made it. They kept their eyes on Jesus,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s so inspiring. That\u2019s why it\u2019s such a learning for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven thinking about <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, going forward, here is what I hope the listeners will get, as a guarantee from us. We will <em>always<\/em> give the brokenness; and at the same time, there will be victory. It\u2019s going to be vulnerable and the Resurrection\u2014you\u2019re going to get both. You\u2019re not just going to get brokenness; you\u2019re going to get both, because there is Jesus always in the middle of that storm\u2014that\u2019s the Rock. You are <em>always<\/em> going to get that on this program.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, I want to go to a question that I asked you earlier this week. In an effort to let our listeners get to know you in a personal way, \u201cWhat\u2019s the most courageous thing you have ever done in all your life?\u201d I\u2019ll just remind our listeners, who haven\u2019t heard me ask this question before\u2014because I\u2019ve met you\u2014and you can always spot a listener; because they\u2019ll come up and say, \u201cLet me tell you <em>my<\/em> most courageous thing,\u201d because they have heard me mention it so many times, they\u2019ve got it nailed. It\u2019s doing your duty in the face of fear. It\u2019s not the absence of fear; it\u2019s fear and faith colliding, and it\u2019s choosing to believe and to step out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you have an answer for that, Dave?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I do. It\u2019s interesting\u2014when I went to make my list of lessons learned from the Raineys, it was number one\u2014it\u2019s the <em>first<\/em> memory I have. I don\u2019t know if <em>you\u2019ll<\/em> remember it; but when we came to this building that we\u2019re sitting in right now\u2014FamilyLife Headquarters\u2014to interview to be a speaker on the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> speaker team, Ann and I\u2014you didn\u2019t know this\u2014but while we were flying down here, we\u2019re going: \u201cOh my gosh! I\u2019ve never met Dennis Rainey.\u201d I\u2019ve only heard you from the stage at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>\u2014nervous. We hope we can do this; we want to do this, but there\u2019s the Interview. And it\u2019s not done until Dennis says, \u201cYou\u2019re in,\u201d\u2014the President has to say, \u201cYou\u2019re in.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re <em>nervous<\/em>. We\u2019re literally role playing on the plane what questions you\u2019re probably going to ask and how we\u2019re going to answer it. [Laughter] We are on the plane, going [to the interview]: \u201cHe\u2019ll probably ask this,\u201d \u201cOkay; what will we say?\u201d Okay; so we are trying to get all the questions right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe do a little tour of this building\u2014first time we are ever here. They take us into your office\u2014sat down, across from your desk. You came in, sat down and introduced yourself, and asked us how we were doing\u2014blah, blah, blah. Then you said it\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014maybe you did this with everybody, but this is what you did with me\u2014you said, \u201cI have one question, \u2018Are you clean?\u2019\u201d And you <em>would not<\/em> take your eyes off me. It was an awkward silence like this [pause], and I said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It was awkward for <em>me<\/em>; because I\u2019m thinking, \u201cYou better be clean!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ll never forget. I looked at you and said, \u201cYes; I am clean.\u201d <em>Immediately<\/em>, you looked at Ann and said, \u201cIs he telling me the truth?\u201d And she said, \u201cYes,\u201d and you go, \u201cOkay; you\u2019re in.\u201d I don\u2019t know if you remember this\u2014I go, \u201cWhat do you mean we\u2019re in?!\u201d You go, \u201cYou guys are on the speaker team.\u201d I go, \u201cAre we good enough?!\u201d He said, \u201cYes; you\u2019re decent,\u201d\u2014you know, it\u2019s that kind of thing. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA couple of learnings here. The first one was: \u201cOh my gosh; this isn\u2019t about talent; this isn\u2019t about speaking skill\u2014to be able get up on a stage and present. This is about character.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So here\u2019s where it ties into the most courageous thing I\u2019ve ever done. One of the reasons I could look at you that day and say, \u201cYes; I am clean,\u201d is\u2014probably about 18 months, or two years\/maybe, three years before that moment\u2014I had to look at my wife, in our family room, and tell her I had a struggle with pornography. That was the scariest moment that I could remember in my life, because I had <em>hid<\/em> it for a period of time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe knew something was going on; because I am a pastor\/I\u2019m a spiritual leader and, yet, I have this secret. It was the only time, and the first we ever had a secret; and she didn\u2019t even know. She would ask me: \u201dYou looked at anything?\u2014doing anything?\u201d And I literally would lie to her; then go to my accountability group, with three other guys, who were holding each other accountable and lie to them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne day, I had to, you know\u2014and Ann can tell you\u2014but I told her: \u201cI\u2018ve been struggling with something, and this is what it is.\u201d That started a whole new journey for our marriage to the point to where I could look at you, two years later and say, \u201cYes; I am clean.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, I\u2019m not saying I\u2019ve never struggled\u2014I don\u2019t\u2014it was just like, \u201cNo; I am clean.\u201d I don\u2019t think I would have ever been able to answer that question with a \u201cYes,\u201d if I hadn\u2019t brought it to my wife and those guys in my life and said: \u201cI\u2018ve got to be honest here. I\u2019m struggling with something. We\u2019ve got to\u2014I need your help.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And Ann, do you remember how you responded to his statement?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, Dennis, why did you have to ask that?!\u2014because I was not gracious in the <em>least<\/em>. I was hurt; I was angry\u2014I felt incredibly insecure. I thought it was all about <em>me<\/em> and my lack of\u2014it was really hard. I was angry, because I felt like he had lied to me for a while; and he never had before. We know everything about each other, and this was a secret. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was really glad that he had told me, but I was scared about where it would lead: \u201cIs this the end? Will it be done here? Is that it? Is it going to be a continuous struggle? Will it last?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt took me a long time to trust you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014and to not be angry about it and not take it personally.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I had to learn\u2014when you break trust, it\u2019s that quick\u2014you know, one decision; you break trust. To regain trust\u2014is you\u2019re rebuilding a <em>whole<\/em> castle you\u2019ve torn down, piece by piece. Again, I wanted her\u2014because I had now confessed\u2014I wanted her to immediately trust me. I learned\u2014over years, really: \u201cI\u2019ve got to rebuild that trust.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And I am <em>so<\/em> glad that he told me, because I feel like there are no secrets. I know everything about him\u2014I know his struggles; he knows my struggles\u2014but it wasn\u2019t easy for sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; we know a lot of couples have been through\u2014we wrote two chapters on it in our book\u2014just about this struggle\u2014because it\u2019s so prevalent in so many couples. Yet, I would look back and say that was really a courageous moment for me. I\u2019m not proud of it at all, but I thank God that He has restored trust and honor in our marriage and given me the ability\/power through Christ to win this battle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What about you?\u2014most courageous thing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019d be great to have a day to process, you know, what was the most; but the thing that popped into my head right away was being 18 years old and working my summer job to make money to go into college. I was working at Whirlpool in a factory, shooting screws on the assembly line. I had been a Christian for two years. I was playing the game\u2014I was dating a guy; I was having sex with him. I was not living the life that I read about in the Bible. I had finally had it. I was shooting these screws and having this deep conversation with God. This took courage on my part, because I was a first-generation Christian. I\u2019ve never seen it lived out; I\u2019ve never watched it. You know they didn\u2019t have the podcasts, and the YouTube, and all the things you could watch.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started going to church by myself; but on <em>this<\/em> day, I told God: \u201cGod I\u2019m done playing this Christian game. I want You to have all of me\u2014all of me. I will go wherever You call me; I will do whatever You tell me to do. I will marry or not marry. I will break up with this guy that I am dating. I am all Yours forever and ever. I want to walk with You; I want to serve You; and I want You to use me to do whatever You want. But I\u2019d love for You to use me to change the world.\u201d I didn\u2019t even know what that meant\u2014what it looked like\u2014but I was like: \u201cGod, just use me to do <em>anything<\/em>. I want to know You,\u201d\u2014like I <em>knew<\/em> Him, but I wanted the relationship\u2014that He was my closest friend, my God, my King, my Savior. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was scary, because I had an idea of what Christians were. In the back of my mind, I was thinking, \u201cBut don\u2019t send me to Detroit to be a pastor\u2019s wife.\u201d [Laughter] I didn\u2019t care! I think I held a lot back [before this commitment]\u2014like: \u201cI didn\u2019t want to be one of those weird Christians.\u201d I didn\u2019t even know what a weird Christian was; but I had all these \u201cDon\u2019t do this..\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t take away my boyfriend,\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t\u2026\u201d\u2014but I was just done with that. I wanted to <em>do<\/em> what He wanted me to do and walk where He wanted me to walk. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was so interesting\u2014I mean, it was <em>freedom<\/em>. It was the first time I felt <em>free<\/em> in anticipation of what God could do. I know that looks different for everybody. But the crazy thing is\u2014I did that: I broke up with the boyfriend the very next day; I became one of those people that were probably very obnoxious to their family\u2014I\u2019d walk in the door, like, \u201cWe\u2019re all going to hell unless we know Jesus!\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know, just totally irritating! I didn\u2019t know anything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hey, you got to tell who you met that week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was going to say: \u201cAnd that week, I met Dave.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I was praying\u2014I said, \u201cI don\u2019t even want to be in a relationship unless <em>You<\/em> are a part of it\u2014You are the <em>center<\/em> of it.\u201d Dave and I were married within the <em>year<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Isn\u2019t that crazy?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m sittinghere, thinking\u2014just [as] we started this broadcast\u2014you, Ann, raising the issue of how we handled trials, suffering, difficult periods in our marriage. You both have modelled how you do that\u2014yours [Ann]: modelling surrender\u2014that\u2019s where it begins; and Dave, you modelling repentance\u2014because it isn\u2019t a matter of <em>if<\/em> you\u2019ll sin; it\u2019s a matter of <em>when<\/em>, and <em>how often<\/em>, and what you do with that sin\u2014and whether you confess it, and repent of it, and turn your back on it, and turn to the Savior, and also turn to your spouse and model humility.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think our listeners have <em>a lot<\/em> of great years to look forward to here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, one way for listeners to get to know you guys better is to get a copy of your [Dave and Ann\u2019s] new book, <em>Vertical Marriage,<\/em> which is a book we\u2019ve got, here, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. We\u2019d love to send you a copy. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order it, or call us to request your copy: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can order <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> when you call 1-<a id=\"_Hlk1303874\">800-358-6329<\/a>\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs we spend time this week just reflecting on and celebrating the life and the legacy of Dennis and Barbara\u2014looking back on the last 26-plus years of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> being on the air\u2014we thought it would be fun to offer a special gift to our listeners. We\u2019ve got a lot of listeners who have joined us recently and don\u2019t know much about your [Dennis and Barbara\u2019s] history, your background, how God\u2019s been at work through your ministry in the early years. The three of us sat down, not long ago\u2014we kind of walked through the first 40 years of this ministry, starting in 1976\u2014looked at the high points: things God has done, how He has used this ministry, lives that have been impacted\u2014pretty remarkable journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe captured that on two audio CDs. We\u2019d love to send you those CDs so that you can find out more about FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and just request them\u2014we\u2019ll send them to you at no cost. Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com. Just give us your name and address and say, \u201cI\u2019d like those CDs,\u201d and we\u2019ll get them out to you. Or you can call and order them\u2014again, no cost\u2014call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u2014and ask for the audio CDs of the first four decades of the ministry of FamilyLife. We hope you enjoy hearing about how God\u2019s been at work through this ministry since 1976.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, before we wrap up things here today, we\u2019ve got some final thoughts from the new President of FamilyLife, David Robbins, who is here joining us. Hey, David.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>Hey, Bob. I just want to echo today what Dennis and Barbara said and how excited I am that Dave and Ann Wilson will be hosting <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in this next chapter. I love their passion for Jesus and for each other. I love their equal passion to provide practical help to marriages and families. That\u2019s part of their story\u2014to give people the timeless truth of God\u2019s Word around marriage and family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd in knowing them, I can guarantee you this\u2014I guarantee you that they will live out what they said. They will lead with authenticity; they will surrender frequently; and they will repent and let it show on air with us. They are gifted people, but their character runs even deeper than their giftedness. I am so grateful for their joining the team. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, as they express their vulnerability and confidence in God\u2019s grace, it will inspire <em>us<\/em>. It inspires <em>me<\/em> to face what\u2019s going on beneath the surface in my own life and be able to have real hope in God\u2019s grace. Along the way, I think we\u2019ll laugh, and we\u2019ll cry <em>a lot<\/em>. You know, for me, personally, as we build a team of multi-generational voices to ensure FamilyLife continues to provide some of the best practical biblical help and hope [for] marriage and family in the future, I couldn\u2019t be more grateful that Dave and Ann are joining the team. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, I think you\u2019d agree with me that it\u2019s going to be a lot of fun.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; it is. These transitions are bittersweet, but we believe God\u2019s got great days ahead for FamilyLife. In fact, we hope you can join us back tomorrow when we are going to hear some stories from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners\u2014ways that some of you have been impacted by Dennis and Barbara\u2019s lives and ministry over the years. We\u2019ll hear that tomorrow, and I hope you can join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300069","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300069"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300069"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300069"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300069"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300069"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300069"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300069"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}