{"id":298272,"date":"2024-09-17T08:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-09-17T12:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/the-heart-of-jesus-how-he-really-feels-about-you-with-dane-ortlund\/"},"modified":"2025-06-10T15:05:09","modified_gmt":"2025-06-10T19:05:09","slug":"the-heart-of-jesus-how-he-really-feels-about-you-with-dane-ortlund","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-heart-of-jesus-how-he-really-feels-about-you-with-dane-ortlund\/","title":{"rendered":"The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels About You, with Dane Ortlund"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Have you ever wondered how Jesus really feels about you? At times, many imagine He&#8217;s disappointed or aloof. Dane Ortlund wants us to experience Jesus&#8217; truest heart towards us. He joins Dave and Ann Wilson for a hopeful discussion on theology and the goodness of God.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Ever wonder how Jesus really feels about you? Many imagine He&#8217;s disappointed or aloof. Dane Ortlund wants us to experience Jesus&#8217; truest heart towards us.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280865,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/d24a41ee-db31-4df9-b17d-b1dc01334a09\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:54","filesize":"24.67M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-09-17 08:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822,2866],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[3636],"cwp_profile":[3628],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-298272","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-spiritual-disciplines-essentials-faith","podcast_series-the-heart-of-jesus-how-he-really-feels-about-you-dane-ortlund","cwp_profile-dane-ortlund","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/298272\/the-heart-of-jesus-how-he-really-feels-about-you-with-dane-ortlund","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/298272\/the-heart-of-jesus-how-he-really-feels-about-you-with-dane-ortlund","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"iwaARuTuWi\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-heart-of-jesus-how-he-really-feels-about-you-with-dane-ortlund\/\">The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels About You, with Dane Ortlund<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-heart-of-jesus-how-he-really-feels-about-you-with-dane-ortlund\/embed\/#?secret=iwaARuTuWi\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels About You, with Dane Ortlund&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"iwaARuTuWi\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Ever wonder how Jesus really feels about you? Many imagine He's disappointed or aloof. Dane Ortlund wants us to experience Jesus' truest heart towards us.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Connect with Dane Ortlund and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.daneortlund.com\/\">daneortlund.com<\/a>, or on <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/daneortlund\">X<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>You can get your copy of Dane's newest book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/the-heart-of-jesus-how-he-really-feels-about-us\">The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels About You<\/a>,\" in our shop.<\/li>\n<li>Also check out Dane's other book mentioned in the program, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/gentle-and-lowly-the-heart-of-christ-for-sinners-and-sufferers\/\">Gentle and Lowly<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find more FamilyLife Today episodes featuring Dane Ortlund <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/dane-ortlund\/\">here<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Join us aboard the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.lovelikeyoumeanitcruise.com\/\">Love Like You Mean It Marriage Cruise<\/a> from February 8-15 for an exclusive journey dedicated to strengthening your marriage.<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-09-17.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels about You<\/p>\n<p>Guest:Dane Ortlund<\/p>\n<p>From the series:The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels about You (Day 1 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:September 17, 2024<\/p>\n<p>Dane: I want to be the kind of dad where my kids grow up and they look back and they say, \u201cYou know, Dad got a lot of things wrong, but I got a glimpse of what Jesus is actually like.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That will be a life that matters forever, and it\u2019s doable.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Sunday at church our pastor quoted A.W. Tozer. I thought it was so appropriate as we talk about this topic today. Remember what he said?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Well, you have it in our notes, and I could read it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, why don\u2019t you read it?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay. This is a great quote. It says, \u201cWhat comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us.\u201d Now that\u2019s deep. You have to let that sink in for a minute.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And even ask yourself, let me ask you, what do you think about God?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, we are going to find out today. We have Dane Ortlund with us.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Are you excited about Dane?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m excited.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We are so excited to have Dane Ortlund.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: You two are fun to talk to. You two are easy and fun to talk to.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Well, we love having you with us.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. You are one of these guests that if you are even in the sky above Orlando, you better come down and we\u2019ll walk in here and talk about anything you want to talk about, because you are always thinking new thoughts. This one is The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels about You.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That subtitle right away grabs people because we think, \u201cHow does He feel about me?\u201d How we perceive how He feels about us is deeply related to how we view Him.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Let me add, Dane, I feel like you have been ground-breaking in terms of how we think about God but, more importantly, what He thinks about us. That part\u2014you\u2019re shifting a generation of people\u2014and me that can feel like, \u201cOh, He\u2019s mad at me.\u201d or \u201cI\u2019ve done something wrong to this God of grace and the gospel that is so compelling.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Every time you\u2019ve been here, I just weep because you do such a great job of painting the picture of His love for us.<\/p>\n<p>When we had you on for Gentle and Lowly, didn\u2019t I just cry the whole time?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, thank you.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, it\u2019s a message for our generation, every generation. Thank you for doing that.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: You are welcome. It is my pleasure and honor, you two. Thank you for being a part of the ministry of that glorious message with me.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Talk about Gentle and Lowly. I know a lot of people\u2014I\u2019m guessing the whole world has read it. Just like they\u2019ve all read our books, right?<\/p>\n<p>Dane: Not quite. I\u2019d love it if that were the case, Dave. It\u2019s a book on what Ann just said\u2014what comes to our mind when we think about God. But wouldn\u2019t you agree, we can easily de-personalize or dehumanize Jesus Christ and not even have a category, at least a thick category, for how He thinks about us, how He feels about us.<\/p>\n<p>Look at the rich, young ruler. Looking at him, the text says, He loved him. [Mark 10:21]<\/p>\n<p>In one place in all four gospels, Spurgeon points this out. My dad read it and pointed it out to me. Matthew 11\u2014Jesus says, \u201cHere\u2019s what my heart is\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, in the Bible, the heart isn\u2019t just what you feel. It\u2019s not only your emotions, it\u2019s not less than that. In the Old Testament and the New, your heart is what you think with, it\u2019s what you will with, it\u2019s what you feel with, what you believe with. The heart is your motivation headquarters. It\u2019s the very core of who you are.<\/p>\n<p>And when Jesus in the one place, where He says, \u201cI want to tell you what My heart is. I want to tell you what gets me out of bed in the morning, what is most animating to me, what fires Me up the most,\u201d if we can talk like that about Him.<\/p>\n<p>I want you to know, none of us, if we had blanks in our Bible in those two places\u2014in Matthew 11:29\u2014none of us would have picked the words gentle and lowly to fill those blanks left to ourselves.<\/p>\n<p>We probably would have picked some good words, some true words. But who of us would have ever said, His heart, His deepest innermost being if we peer way down into what He is most deeply like is He is tender, non-abrasive and He is lowly, and that means He is accessible.<\/p>\n<p>He\u2019s not like a really, really good politician, one operating in total integrity with all the right policies but you have to wait in lines of security to get to Him. Like when you get on a Zoom\u00ae call, and it says, \u201cThe host will let you in.\u201d There\u2019s none of that with Jesus Christ because He is accessible is the point. He\u2019s right there.<\/p>\n<p>The Revelation 1 Christ before John fell down into the fetal position because He saw the risen Christ\u2014that One, not a junior varsity version of that\u2014in His deepest heart, gentle and lowly. It\u2019s not the only thing He says about Himself so it\u2019s not the only thing we should say about Him. But it\u2019s the first thing, it\u2019s the first thing. It\u2019s His heart.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What words would you have put in? What two words as a kid growing up?<\/p>\n<p>Dane: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What would you have put in about Jesus?<\/p>\n<p>Dane: Probably I would have chosen different words based on what point in my development I was at. So, it\u2019s good to say, as a kid.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: Nice and Kind. Good and Loving. As I grew, Gracious and Merciful. Joyful. At some points in my life, perhaps, Austere and Demanding. Judging and Assessing, at least this is what we very easily, reflexively believe.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: I\u2019m still getting used to the surprise. A journey of a lifetime with the Bible is a journey in ten-thousand surprises\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: \u2014about what God is like. I would never have picked Gentle and Lowly, though it\u2019s totally consistent with everything we have throughout the entire Scripture.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Hmm. Go back to that discovery. As you were writing this, what was that like? How did you discover that? What did that look like?<\/p>\n<p>Dane: There was an old Puritan. Puritan does not mean grouchy. A lot of people think that it does. [Laughter] He was a very idiosyncratic guy. He would wear around\u2014his name was Thomas Goodwin \u2014he would wear his nightcap around campus when he was ministering and teaching at Cambridge. He was kind of a weirdo.<\/p>\n<p>He was a pastor. He was a theologian and an author. He wrote a book based on Hebrews 4:15. What the Puritans would do is take one verse or a part of a verse and wring it dry, and out comes two hundred pages. One verse, guys!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: He took Hebrews 4:15 where it says, \u201cJesus is not unable to sympathize with us in our weaknesses,\u201d and he wrote a book on it. He called it, The Heart of Christ who is in Heaven for Sinners who are on Earth. And the reason he called it that was because he said, \u201cI know,\u201d and I\u2019m paraphrasing in the preface. He said, \u201cI know all you Christians out there think that Jesus is way, way, way up high. He used to be down low. He was on earth for a while. Now He\u2019s up in heaven, therefore you kind of have to wave to get his attention. You\u2019ve got to take a ticket and get in line.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The burden of the book is, Jesus is closer and more available and more in touch with you now, His people, now, than He ever could have been. Part of the theology that He is in us with His Spirit. We could put it like this, guys. In John 13, the Last Supper, they are sitting around a table. Peter says to John, who is leaning up against Christ\u2019s chest, \u201cHey, John, could you ask Jesus a question for me?\u201d That\u2019s pretty close to Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dane: He\u2019s physically resting on Him. The burden of Goodwin\u2019s book in part is, we are closer to Christ now than John was that evening.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oooh.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: And He\u2019s closer to us now than He was to John that evening. That\u2019s why He said, \u201cIt\u2019s better for you that I go away,\u201d in John 15 or 16.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: So, Thomas Goodwin wrote this book, and I read, and I thought, \u201cI didn\u2019t know\u201d\u2014this was about eleven years ago, I didn\u2019t know\u2014that you could talk about Jesus like that without being a raging liberal. I thought it was only people who had a bad theology and disbelieved things about justice and wrath. So, let\u2019s talk about the love of God in some effusive ways.<\/p>\n<p>No, Goodwin believed in the harder doctrines, too. That\u2019s the guy who wrote The Heart of Christ who is in Heaven for Sinners who are on Earth.<\/p>\n<p>Oh! One last thing. He says that what Hebrews 4:15 is doing is taking our hand and it is placing it on the chest of Jesus Christ to feel how His heart beats and yearns\u2014that\u2019s a biblical word, too\u2014yearns for His people. That\u2019s what the verse is doing and it\u2019s not the only verse doing that.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s like He says, \u201cHey Dane! Take your hand. You can place it on the beating heart of the God-man Jesus Christ and feel how much He loves you.\u201d Wow. That\u2019s what the Bible is there for.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I just started my crying session.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. You just started it. How is it that we miss that? Preachers, churches, individuals. I don\u2019t think that has been communicated very well.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: It hasn\u2019t, has it. It hasn\u2019t, guys, I agree. CS Lewis said the reason we need to read books who have been dead a long time is because we can\u2019t go into a time machine and go four hundred years or eight hundred years into the future and see our blind spots and what we\u2019re not talking about but they are talking about then in the church. But you can go four hundred or eight hundred years into the past. It\u2019s called going to the library and reading a book that someone wrote back then and saying, \u201cWhoa! They were talking about this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Thomas Goodwin popped up and gave 357 mini speeches on the floor of the Westminster assembly in the 1640s, which is where we got our Westminster Confession of Faith which talks about hell and wrath and God\u2019s justice. That guy wrote this book on Christ\u2019s heart.<\/p>\n<p>And this theme comes up in all twelve volumes of his collective works. He circles back to it again and again. It was not a \u201cone-off\u201d for him. He was not a \u201cone-off\u201d in the Puritans. Richard Sibbs, John Owen, and later generations: Spurgeon, John Bunyan, and Jonathan Edwards. But we have not been singing this tune in the way that apparently past generations have, and we need to.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We think so. We definitely need to.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. It\u2019s a little bit like it\u2019s a lost message that\u2019s all over Scripture. Ann and I go through the One-Year Bible together, we\u2019re in it now. You do have to peer deeply into the Old Testament sometimes.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: You do, for sure.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That doesn\u2019t feel like a loving God, it feels like a judgmental God. And yet, it\u2019s there. But you can lose it and that becomes the dominant message too often.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: The thing is, God is a God of wrath. He would not be God if He weren\u2019t. He is a God of justice. But He is rich in mercy. And Goodwin points out, nowhere in Scripture is God called rich in wrath or rich in judgment, though He is that. And we embrace that, the full teaching of Scripture.<\/p>\n<p>The fact that he is a God whose heart is one of outflowing mercy and embrace is all the more wondrous given that He is also, to the impenitent, that is to those who stiff arm Him and say, \u201cNo thanks,\u201d that He is a God of judgment and justice and wrath.<\/p>\n<p>These doctrines mutually illuminate and heighten one another. And you are right, Dave.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay. For our kids, our listeners could be thinking what does this have to do with marriage and parenting. It has a lot to do with it because the way we view God and the way we think He views us impacts the way that we interact with the people we love.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: 100%.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Has that ever impacted you? Even eleven years ago as you were studying this and learning this. What did that do for you and what did that look like in your family?<\/p>\n<p>Dane: I will be obedient to answer that question but first a preface comment. When I see a Christian acting in a certain way, whatever it is, toward other Christians\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: \u2014what I am seeing is how they believe, whether they know it or not, how they believe God acts toward them. If Dave is\u2014and this is not who he is\u2014if Dave was harsh and critical and impatient as a habit, that was how he rolled, I would say, among other things, I conclude that Dave thinks that is how God is toward him. Harsh and impatient.<\/p>\n<p>But actually, what Dave is like is long-suffering, kind, accommodating, embracing, welcoming\u2014you both are like that\u2014because you know in your gut after walking with God many years that is what God is like towards you. So, whatever we believe God is like toward us, that is how we will operate towards others.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s deep right there. Just thinking about our culture.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: Yes, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Thinking about people when they call themselves a Christian. Okay, keep going.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: If you see a pastor preaching, and he might be trying to hide it, but he\u2019s angry.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: The tone that maybe bubbles out when he is not as filtered as he wishes he was, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you people get it together?\u201d It\u2019s sort of a scolding tone, Spurgeon called it. That\u2019s a preacher who believes that\u2019s how God is towards him, who believes that God is up there tapping His foot wondering, \u201cWhen are you going to preach a really good sermon? When are you going to get it together?\u201d He\u2019s passing along to his people what he believes God is like toward Him.<\/p>\n<p>Whereas, oh! Sinclair Ferguson, the Scottish theologian, says\u2014here\u2019s the happier, flip side of that. When a preacher is showing, not only telling, showing his people what Jesus is like, the people sitting there in the pews or in the seats listening to the preacher preach, after many years, they won\u2019t know they are doing this but actually what their preacher is doing is giving them their Christology, what they think Jesus is actually like for good or for ill.<\/p>\n<p>Your question wasn\u2019t about any of that. You were asking about eleven years ago.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, but you kind of just answered the question. But keep going, go back to eleven years ago because all of that\u2019s impacted you. And, from what you just said, that\u2019s totally impacted your marriage and your parenting. It has to.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: I sure wish that it would have more. Yes. I think it is. I believe it is.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: And I\u2019m ashamed at how little it is. I want to grow in this. I want to be the kind of dad where my kids grow up and they look back and they say, \u201cYou know, Dad got a lot of things wrong, but I got a whiff of what Jesus is actually like.\u201d In his own weird, imperfect way (we\u2019re talking about Dane) I got a glimpse in an actual, concrete human body tucking me in at night of what Jesus is like. I\u2019d like to grow in that. Absolutely. This is urgently and universally, this theme of what is Jesus actually like\u2014urgently and universally, in other words, in every domain of home life and family life and marital life\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It hits everything.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Everything.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I would say, Dane, that is the goal of the Christian life. Every sphere I\u2019m in\u2014neighborhood, family room, work\u2014I start laughing\u2014driving the car\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dane: You, too, Dave?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I do not do a very good job there. [Laughter] Go ahead; you can tell them.<\/p>\n<p>That should be our goal, right? That people would get a sense of the heart of God by the way we live, speak, act.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: There\u2019s something different about this person.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: I\u2019m detecting something, they might not use the word heavenly, but this is nothing that the sort of thing that the world can manufacture. This is out of this world. I just want to give people just a little glimpse of that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Can you imagine somebody saying about me, he\u2019s gentle and lowly?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think that\u2019s true about you.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: No, I\u2019m not asking for a compliment.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m just thinking that is beyond imaginable for me. That\u2019s a father\u2019s heart to his kids, our Father\u2019s heart toward us, if we can capture that and live that out. And we can, with the power of God, we can.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: Dave, can I underscore that? This is doable.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: God is not saying, \u201cHey Dane, as a dad; Ann, as a mom; Dave, as a dad, train your kids to achieve one hundred conversions of their classmates or friends per year, or some other thing that just feels so impossible.<\/p>\n<p>Gentle, accessible, tender. At one level, I cannot manufacture that. It has to be the power of God, as you said, Dave. But that\u2019s right there. That\u2019s doable. We could walk right out of the studio and do that.<\/p>\n<p>What if we died one day and people experienced that in our presence and said that, Dave, gentle and lowly, among other things at our funeral. That will have been a life of eternal significance. No matter how many people have heard of us or who hasn\u2019t. No matter how many Twitter followers we have, whatever.<\/p>\n<p>That will be a life that matters forever, and it\u2019s doable.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You have quite a legacy, too. Like a family\u2014we just had lunch and talked about your grandparents and your parents. Did they\u2014I\u2019m thinking about your dad and your mom\u2014did they give you a reflection of that?<\/p>\n<p>Dane: 100%. The first two words in Gentle and Lowly are \u201cMy dad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Hmmm.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: And that\u2019s fitting. Yes, my dad is the greatest guy I\u2019ve ever known. Here\u2019s why: [for] both my parents, it was nothing surprising or magical or unachievable. They just walked in reality with God. They had an actual friendship with God.<\/p>\n<p>What I mean is, it wasn\u2019t like they were angry all week and then said, \u201cGet in the car, we\u2019re going to church.\u201d It almost\u2014overstatement alert\u2014it almost doesn\u2019t matter what their parenting strategy was. It does matter. It almost doesn\u2019t matter.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: It almost doesn\u2019t matter because \u201cthose who look to Him are radiant.\u201d [Psalm 34] My grandparents had that. My parents have that. Everything is footnotes to that. If you have that, so much else will fall into place.<\/p>\n<p>I want my kids to say that about me. Dad, my weird dad, he had reality with God. Jesus was irresistible and inexhaustible to my dad, whatever else. Whatever of my theology they disagree with or how many hours of video games I\u2019d allow or not allow them to have, you know the sparks fly when it comes to video games. He had communion with God, and it showed in brightness, radiance, glow. That\u2019s my goal.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Ann, you\u2019re crying again.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: [Laughter] It\u2019s because we complicate it so much as parents, in our marriages. But it\u2019s that. If we\u2019re with Him, if we understand how compelling and graceful and the gospel\u2014it changes us. We can\u2019t be with Him and not be changed by Him. It just happens.<\/p>\n<p>Dane: So, let\u2019s help one another in our parenting with tactics and strategies, yes. We need that. Let\u2019s do classes at our churches: Here are seven things not to do when leading family devotions. Whatever. But none of that is the banner over our parenting.<\/p>\n<p>The banner is: God is there. God is real. Talk to our kids about God who is there and enjoy Him together.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That right there. Isn\u2019t that what we all want?<\/p>\n<p>Dane: Amen, amen.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: As a parent it\u2019s just really difficult to do that, what Dane was just saying; to enjoy God together and steer my kids towards God-centeredness instead of \u201cSeven things you should do in order to get your kids to read the Bible more.\u201d Whatever, something like that. I am just bent towards strategy and not as much the heart. This is such an important exhortation to keep the main thing the main thing. I really appreciated that.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Shelby Abbot, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Dane Ortlund on FamilyLife Today. Dane has written a book called The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels about You.<\/p>\n<p>You can get a copy of Dane\u2019s book by going online right now to FamilyLifeToday.com and clicking on \u201cToday\u2019s Resources.\u201d Or feel free to give us a call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy; again, the number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now I know we are only in the middle of September, but February is just around the corner. Why am I mentioning it? Because the FamilyLife Love Like You Mean It\u00ae marriage cruise is coming February 8-15, for an exclusive journey dedicated to strengthening your marriage.<\/p>\n<p>On this special cruise that we have just once a year, you get to experience Bible teaching from gifted communicators; Christian entertainment like Danny Gokey, Chris August and Laura Story; and romantic evenings under the stars.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s a full ship full of like-minded couples who are there for the Love Like You Mean It marriage cruise as well. There are no children on board, so you can focus completely on each other. Whether your marriage could use a boost, and you need a little help with that, or if you just want to go enjoy some time, just you and your spouse away from the kids. This is a great and relaxing opportunity for you to do so.<\/p>\n<p>Space is limited. Reserve your spot now at FamilyLifeToday.com. Just click on the Love Like You Mean It cruise banner.<\/p>\n<p>Tomorrow, Dane Ortlund is back to talk about how Jesus\u2019 heart is often misunderstood as stern and disappointed rather than loving and accepting. He\u2019ll steer us in the right direction tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/298272","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=298272"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280865"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=298272"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=298272"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=298272"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=298272"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=298272"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=298272"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}