{"id":298270,"date":"2024-09-19T08:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-09-19T12:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/praying-for-my-pastor-encountering-jesus-with-dane-ortlund\/"},"modified":"2024-11-19T04:14:44","modified_gmt":"2024-11-19T09:14:44","slug":"praying-for-my-pastor-encountering-jesus-with-dane-ortlund","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/praying-for-my-pastor-encountering-jesus-with-dane-ortlund\/","title":{"rendered":"Praying for My Pastor: Encountering Jesus with Dane Ortlund"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>How can I be praying for my pastor? Pray for consistent encounters with the gentle and lowly Jesus, says Dane Ortlund. Tune in as he joins Dave and Ann Wilson to discuss essential qualities of a Christian leader.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How can I be praying for my pastor? Dane Ortlund says to pray for consistent encounters with the gentle and lowly Jesus, plus other key leadership qualities!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280865,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/35232c66-4413-4824-a033-b1dc01334a12\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:59","filesize":"25.66M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-09-19 08:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[3636],"cwp_profile":[3628],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-298270","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","podcast_series-the-heart-of-jesus-how-he-really-feels-about-you-dane-ortlund","cwp_profile-dane-ortlund","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/298270\/praying-for-my-pastor-encountering-jesus-with-dane-ortlund","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/298270\/praying-for-my-pastor-encountering-jesus-with-dane-ortlund","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"gR6rjTCmPC\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/praying-for-my-pastor-encountering-jesus-with-dane-ortlund\/\">Praying for My Pastor: Encountering Jesus with Dane Ortlund<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/praying-for-my-pastor-encountering-jesus-with-dane-ortlund\/embed\/#?secret=gR6rjTCmPC\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Praying for My Pastor: Encountering Jesus with Dane Ortlund&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"gR6rjTCmPC\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"How can I be praying for my pastor? Dane Ortlund says to pray for consistent encounters with the gentle and lowly Jesus, plus other key leadership qualities!","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<ul>\n<li>Connect with Dane Ortlund and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.daneortlund.com\/\">daneortlund.com<\/a>, or on <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/daneortlund\">X<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>You can get your copy of Dane's newest book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/the-heart-of-jesus-how-he-really-feels-about-us\">The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels About You<\/a>,\" in our shop.<\/li>\n<li>Also check out Dane's other book mentioned in the program, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/gentle-and-lowly-the-heart-of-christ-for-sinners-and-sufferers\/\">Gentle and Lowly<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find more FamilyLife Today episodes featuring Dane Ortlund <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/dane-ortlund\/\">here<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Join us aboard the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.lovelikeyoumeanitcruise.com\/\">Love Like You Mean It Marriage Cruise<\/a> from February 8-15 for an exclusive journey dedicated to strengthening your marriage.<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-09-19.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript\r\n\r\nReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.\r\n\r\nPraying for My Pastor: Encountering Jesus\r\n\r\nGuest:Dane Ortlund\r\n\r\nFrom the series:The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels about You (Day 3 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:September 19, 2024\r\n\r\nDane: I don\u2019t want my kids to feel like they\u2019re a commodity or something that is a hurdle to me doing my life. I want them to feel like, at any point within reason, they can approach me, and I will give them unhurried attention and care.\r\n\r\nShelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nAnn: This is FamilyLife Today!\r\n\r\nDave: We\u2019ve got Dane Ortlund back with us today. \r\n\r\nAnn: I\u2019m so excited about today. Dane\u2019s here; Dave\u2019s here. \r\n\r\nDane: Ann\u2019s here. \r\n\r\nDave: But we\u2019re going to defer to Dane. [Laughter] \r\n\r\nI thought, let\u2019s do this today; let\u2019s talk about ways that we as husbands or wives or dads or moms can model the heart of Jesus, gentle and lowly (we\u2019ve been talking about the last couple of days) to our kids or to our spouse.\r\n\r\nDane, start us off. \r\n\r\nAnn: We\u2019ll all give some.\r\n\r\nDave: Alright. \r\n\r\nDane: It\u2019s such an urgent question, isn\u2019t it? I feel the need in my own life. Do you all confess sins on this show or not? I don\u2019t know where the lines are. What\u2019s appropriate here. \r\n\r\nDave: I think that\u2019s all we do. [Laughter] We turn on the mics, and Ann and I just confess our sin over and over. \r\n\r\nAnn: Dane, are you confessing yours now? \r\n\r\nDane: I\u2019ll keep this brief. No one will feel uncomfortable, guys. Don\u2019t worry. [Laughter] We were preaching through Ephesians; we got through chapter four. We got to the second half of Ephesians just this past Sunday. \u201cI, Paul, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all\u2026\u201d \u201c\u2026evangelistic zeal?\u201d  No. \u201c\u2026courage and fortitude?\u201d No. \u201c\u2026with all humility and gentleness.\u201d [Ephesians 4:1-2, Paraphrased]\r\n\r\nAll of the glorious doctrine of Ephesians 1-3 about salvation through faith and calling and\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014identity, everything. \r\n\r\nDane: \u2014identity. \r\n\r\nDave: Yes. \r\n\r\nDane: \u2014it all funnels down into the first thing out of Paul\u2019s mouth for the back half of Ephesians: \u201c\u2026therefore, be gentle.\u201d \r\n\r\nI called a family meeting yesterday. I said, \u201cGuys, I\u2019m sorry for not consistently obeying Ephesians 4:2, \u2018\u2026with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love\u2026\u2019 \r\n\r\n\u201cThose are the four things: gentleness, patience, humility, bearing with one another in love. I would like to grow in that. Would you pray for me? I want to be a dad who, in 2024 and beyond, is more Ephesians 4:2-ized. This is part of how I roll. I want our home to be an Ephesians 4:2 home.\u201d \r\n\r\nWhat I\u2019m saying for number one here, Dave, is\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: Wait, wait, wait. You can\u2019t get away. No! Okay, give us the ages of your kids; and I need to know how they responded when you\u2014\r\n\r\nDane: \u2014four boys and a girl: seventeen, fourteen, twelve, and eight; the girl is ten, so boy, boy, boy, girl, boy. [They reacted] in diverse ways. A couple of them were hard to read; a couple of them were really locked in. I don\u2019t know all that they were thinking. \r\n\r\nBut I want them to hear that from me regularly. I don\u2019t want to go back to them when they\u2019re 32 and say, \u201cHere\u2019s the laundry list of things that I need to apologize for.\u201d I want to do it in real time as we are going along. Acknowledging [and] owning our own sins with our kids could be, Dave, one way that we\u2019re displaying Christ\u2019s heart to them. \r\n\r\nAnn: Dave, I think you\u2019ve done that, as well. I think you are super-humble when the kids come to you, even now, and confront you; or when they were\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014Hey, Dane, these days are coming. [Laughter] They\u2019re going to come to you as adults, and they\u2019re going to say things. \r\n\r\nAnn: I\u2019m recalling some hard conversations that our kids have had with you; like one of them saying to you, \u201cDad, you\u2019re dead spiritually.\u201d \r\n\r\nDane: Ouch!\r\n\r\nAnn: That is an \u201couch.\u201d That is a hard thing to hear. \r\n\r\nDave: He was right; he was right. \r\n\r\nAnn: I remember thinking, \u201cOh, boy. Oh, boy.\u201d But you generally are not quick to react, and you are slow to respond. I think you\u2019ve done a really good job of that. \r\n\r\nDane: Way to go, Dave. \r\n\r\nDave: That\u2019s my fear. But it\u2019s interesting, one of my thoughts of one of the ways to model gentle and lowly to your kids\u2014and just to say we\u2019ve said this a couple of times on the program this week\u2014you can\u2019t do this apart from Christ. \r\n\r\nAnn: Yes. \r\n\r\nDave: It isn\u2019t like, \u201cTry this, and go home and do it.\u201d You can\u2019t do it. You are going to fall on your face, and you are going to have to say, \u201cJesus, I surrender. You are going to have do this through the power of resurrected Christ in me, or I don\u2019t have a chance.\u201d \r\n\r\nBut it comes off of what you just said, Dane. I think it\u2019s also learning to handle or manage your anger in a way that doesn\u2019t push your kids away but draws them near. \r\n\r\nYou know, I had a struggle with anger. I didn\u2019t understand where it was coming from; but it had a lot to do with [not] forgiving my dad. So, I would snap. I\u2019m smiling now, but I remember one time we were driving somewhere, and the kids were toddlers. They were in their car seats in the back, and they were loud. They were just being kids. \r\n\r\nI said, \u201cBe quiet!\u201d I was yelling. I grabbed whatever was in the middle of the console, a little stick or a pencil or something, and I started swinging it. [Laughter] Ann was looking at me [as if to say], \u201cWhat are you doing?\u201d I\u2019m not hitting anything. \u201cOh, my goodness. I\u2019m almost an abusive dad.\u201d I didn\u2019t hit anybody. \r\n\r\nAnn: No, and you wouldn\u2019t have hit somebody. \r\n\r\nDave: I would never do that. \r\n\r\nAnn: But you were so\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014but I snapped. \r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014mad. You snapped. I said, \u201cDave, calm down.\u201d I got it, because, as mom, I was right there. \r\n\r\nDave: But again, over days and months and years, I had to wrestle with: \u201cWhere does this anger come from? What\u2019s it plugged into?\u201d I figured it out and started this journey. I think one of the ways that we can model that for our kids is, we have to get a handle on that. \r\n\r\nIf your spouse is saying to you, \u201cSometimes you react in a way that is beyond rational,\u201d that should be a dash light from God to say, \u201cOkay.\u201d She\u2019s telling you (or he\u2019s telling you) something you need to address. \r\n\r\nI don\u2019t think my kids would say I was an angry dad, because most of their growing up time, I got it under control. But at the beginning I was. I think that\u2019s important. \r\n\r\nAnn: But the other thing you did, too\u2014I can remember that night when they were going  to bed, just as you said, Dane; Dave went into their room. He was praying for them that night, [and said], \u201cHey, guys, I\u2019m sorry that I lost my temper. It was wrong. I shouldn\u2019t have done that. I had to talk to God about that, but you guys don\u2019t deserve that.\u201d \r\n\r\nI think that continual repentance to God, to our kids,\u2014Dave: \u2014owning your sins and apologizing, repenting. \r\n\r\nDane: Yes. \r\n\r\nAnn: Yes. \r\n\r\nDave: \u2014a posture of it. \r\n\r\nAnn and Dave: Yes. \r\n\r\nDave: Alright, you\u2019ve got another one? \r\n\r\nDane: What do you guys think about this? I am so put together, and maybe it\u2019s part of my own fallenness or something, but I love efficiency. [Laughter] I love efficiency.\r\n\r\nAnn: I do, too. \r\n\r\nDane: I love efficiency. The problem is\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u201c\u2014not everybody else does.\u201d [Laughter] \r\n\r\nAnn: Why can\u2019t our kids just get on board with it? \r\n\r\nDane: \u201cWhat do you want to say? Say it in ten seconds, and let me get back to my email.\u201d [Laughter] \r\n\r\nAnn: I\u2019m not that bad. [Laughter] \r\n\r\nDane: Time versus efficiency. The messiness of allowed time\u2014what about this\u2014versus the need for efficiency. In other words, I don\u2019t want my kids to feel like they are a commodity or something that is a hurdle to me doing my life. I want them to feel like, at any point within reason, they can approach me, and I will give them unhurried attention and care and listening. \r\n\r\nI need to work on this in my marriage, too. \u201cGet to the point here.\u201d [Laughter] No, just depressurize the conversation; depressurize the date with Chloe, my ten-year-old. Just don\u2019t look at the time. You might have to but try not to. Have the culture of the conversation, the culture of the meeting, be one of the way Jesus is with us. He\u2019s not hurrying us, guys. He is giving us all the time in the world, and He happens to be running the universe. [Laughter] \r\n\r\nHe makes all the time that I need, so what about one way we can reflect Christ\u2019s heart to our kids is simply unhurriedness when we are with them. \r\n\r\nAnn: That\u2019s good. I wrote down, as you were saying that, the way I would say it. [It] is, \u201cBe present in the moment.\u201d \r\n\r\nDane: Yes, not preoccupied. \r\n\r\nAnn: We can do that as women, too. I feel like I was not great at that because, I am very task oriented. So, to be present, to be there, to look them in the eyes and say, \u201cTell me more,\u201d without looking at my phone, my watch, all of that. I think that\u2019s a good one. \r\n\r\nThat makes us, as women\u2014I\u2019ll just say, as a wife\u2014if Dave would say, \u201cTell me more\u201d then what would happen? I would say, \u201cWhat? You want to hear this?\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: I do that every day, girl. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: But I can see we have granddaughters now\u2014because we only had sons, [but] we have granddaughters. Man, they can talk! [Laughter] They can go into such detail. I\u2019m watching Dave; his eyes are glazing over. \r\n\r\nDane: Funny, isn\u2019t it? The boys, we\u2019re trying to get them to talk. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: Yes. I remember\u2014I don\u2019t remember how long ago, but it was a long time ago\u2014I did a funeral for a man I didn\u2019t know very well. He was in our church. They asked me to come in and do it. \r\n\r\nAt some point, I said, \u201cWe are going to do an open mic, and here are the ground rules; keep it short.\u201d Sometimes nobody says anything, and other times\u2014this was one of these everybody wanted to say something. It wasn\u2019t a huge funeral, but every single person said the same thing. It was what you just said: \u201cHe never was in a hurry.\u201d \r\n\r\nCoworkers, people that he was the boss of, [said], \u201cI always felt so valued and seen by him, because every time I had an issue, he stopped, he looked me in the eye, and he never had to hurry away.\u201d \r\n\r\nDane: Wow! \r\n\r\nDave: I was talking about it years later. That marked me. It was: \u201cIs anybody saying that about me? Are my kids saying that? Is my wife saying that about me?\u201d \r\n\r\nDane: I love that. \r\n\r\nDave: That\u2019s a quality that Jesus carried. \r\n\r\nDane: Exactly. \r\n\r\nDave: Nobody felt like, \u201cOh, Jesus has got to go do another miracle. Some other guy is more important than me.\u201d I don\u2019t think anybody ever felt that. \r\n\r\nAnn: How did He do that? Because everybody was pressing in on Him. Everybody wanted a piece of Him, but each person felt so special. \r\n\r\nDave: Even the woman with the blood disease: \u201cWho touched Me?\u201d [Luke 8:45]\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes, He was on His way to heal. \r\n\r\nDave: His disciples [said], \u201cWait a minute. Everybody is touching You. What do you mean?\u201d That\u2019s sort of the heart of God. It\u2019s like, \u201cI know.\u201d \r\n\r\nDane: He had an appointment to get to. \r\n\r\nDave: Yes. \r\n\r\nDane: He allowed Himself to be interrupted. \r\n\r\nAnn: It was a death. Somebody was dying. \r\n\r\nDane: Yes. \r\n\r\nDave: You\u2019ve got another one? \r\n\r\nAnn: Wait. What have we done so far? \r\n\r\nDane: Owning your sin,\u2014Ann: \u2014controlling your anger,\u2014Dave: \u2014managing your anger,\u2014Dane: \u2014unhurried time,\u2014Dave: \u2014yes, being present. \r\n\r\nAnn: I think the one that I would say that I love\u2014and our kids would love, and they\u2019ve come back to talk to us [about]\u2014is they want (we, as wives, and I think our kids want) the heart of our husbands and our dads. \r\n\r\nOur kids have wanted, Dave, your vulnerability, the things that you were afraid of, the things that you felt weak in, the things that you were feeling. It\u2019s that level five communication of: \u201cThis is who I am. These are the things that make me excited; these are the things that make me fearful.\u201d \r\n\r\nI know that I long for that, and our kids have come back to you and said, \u201cDad, we wanted to know you.\u201d Would you say that\u2019s true? \r\n\r\nDave: Yes, I don\u2019t want to talk about it. [Laughter] \r\n\r\nDane: \u201cWhat lovely weather we\u2019re having. Back to the frothy.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cWhat are we having for dinner?\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: But was that hard for you to hear? \r\n\r\nDave: Oh, yes. Dane, you don\u2019t know this. We\u2019ve said this many times: two of my sons, as adult men, said, \u201cYou were more intimate with the congregation in your sermons than you were with us in the kitchen. \r\n\r\nThey were right. It was like I would be vulnerable [during] the week on the stage and share my sin and my struggle. Yet, they longed to hear the stories I would tell. They would say, \u201cI wish you had told us in the family room before a thousand people heard it.\u201d \r\n\r\nI [responded], \u201cYou\u2019re right.\u201d \r\n\r\nDane: Okay, time out. We have to notice something here, Ann. Twice as we\u2019ve been talking today, some failure of some kind has come up from Dave\u2019s life, and both times you caught what he said. He said, \u201cAnd they were right.\u201d That is such a sign of not spiritual deadness. That is such a sign of life and the Holy Spirit. \r\n\r\nThe world can\u2019t do that. But to say, \u201cYes, they were right.\u201d That is humility. \r\n\r\nAnn: I know. \r\n\r\nDane: That is honesty. \r\n\r\nAnn: He\u2019s so good at that, and it comes from not just\u2014\r\n\r\nDane: \u2014I respect that. \r\n\r\nAnn: Me, too. I think our boys would say\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014they were wrong; I\u2019m going to change it. [Laughter] They were right. \r\n\r\nAnn: I think our kids would all say, \u201cI could come to Dad with anything.\u201d Now, with me, they\u2019d be a little bit more scared, because I\u2019m way more intense and all that. But with Dave, they could bring anything to him. And they still don\u2019t know what a gift that is, that he gave them, and he\u2019s been giving them. That\u2019s a big one. \r\n\r\nDave: You are being nice, but let\u2019s talk about another one. [Laughter] Do you have one? \r\n\r\nDane: I\u2019ve done two already. \r\n\r\nDave: Here\u2019s one. It somewhat comes from your book, Gentle and Lowly, and this new one written for younger generations. If we can sympathize with our child and our spouse\u2019s pain or struggle or weakness they\u2019re going through, rather than standing far away\u2014we enter in, and we don\u2019t coach them how to get out, but we just live in their pain with them. That, don\u2019t you think? You respond. What does that mean? \r\n\r\nDane: Oh!\r\n\r\nAnn: Sure. \r\n\r\nDane: I want to grow in that and do that. We experience sympathy towards us as a deep form of love, because what someone is doing is, they\u2019re not writing us a check, they\u2019re not bringing us a meal; they\u2019re bearing pain with us. They are coming alongside. We\u2019ve got this 200-pound weight of some pain, and they are taking 100 pounds of it or 50 pounds of it. \r\n\r\nThe Greek word, sympathize, means literally to co-suffer. You are getting in the ditch with them, in the foxhole of life with them, and taking some of the shrapnel that is hitting them. That\u2019s what it feels like. \r\n\r\nJ.C. Ryle, the Anglican bishop, said 150 years ago: \u201cFriendship doubles all our joys and halves, H-A-L-V-E-S, all our sorrows.\u201d The sorrow you are in, taking the last part of that, that\u2019s sympathizing with. They are bearing it with you. \r\n\r\nGuys, we can endure anything if we\u2019re not alone. \r\n\r\nAnn: Yes. \r\n\r\nDane: The greatest thing is Jesus is with us, so we\u2019re not alone, and it sure helps to have a human being or two who sympathize with us. \r\n\r\nAnn: It makes me think of the Navy Seals. Remember they do whatever\u2014what is the night that they have to be up all night, and they lock arms\u2014\r\n\r\nDane: \u2014Hell Week.\r\n\r\nAnn: That\u2019s it. They lock arms together, and then they\u2019ll sing a song. That\u2019s a picture of the Christian life. We\u2019re locking arms, we\u2019re singing praise to God, we\u2019re in the midst of this battle that\u2019s raging, but we can\u2019t do it apart. \r\n\r\nDane: Amen. It\u2019s so good, isn\u2019t it, too, [that] this conversation here directly applies to our kids and as parents. Because what I\u2019m too quick to do is: they\u2019ve had some distress\u2014Chloe has had a falling out with a friend, or whatever it might be; garden variety sufferings when you are in second grade, fourth grade\u2014it\u2019s easy for me to brush it aside or minimize it or say, \u201cOh, it\u2019s not that bad.\u201d \r\n\r\nWhat if I actually found a fourth-grade way for her to, in her own way, be thinking, \u201cDad\u2019s feeling the pain of this with me?\u201d Even if I think it\u2019s kind of silly to feel that with them, they would feel so loved by that. \r\n\r\nAnn: This is my weakness. When we\u2019re around our adult kids, some of this stuff comes out. As I watch them, my kids, parent, [I think], \u201cMan, they\u2019re incredibly sympathetic.\u201d They get right in there and say, \u201cOh, that must be so sad for you.\u201d Because I never had that in my upbringing. It was: \u201cSuck it up.\u201d Nobody hugged us or sympathized. Are you kidding? \r\n\r\nDane: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: This one child said, \u201cMom, I\u2019m trying to think of a time you hugged us and said, \u2018Tell me more about how sad you are.\u2019\u201d Oh, I didn\u2019t do that at all. [I would say], \u201cYou\u2019re fine.\u201d That\u2019s what I would say, \u201cYou\u2019re fine, hon. You\u2019re fine.\u201d He said, \u201cI could have broken my leg, and my mom would say, \u201cJust get up and walk it off.\u201d [Laughter] \r\n\r\nBut I wish I had done that. I can do that. They say, \u201cYou are getting better\u201d (with our grandkids). I didn\u2019t know!\r\n\r\nDave: I mean, we were sort of proud of the fact that we didn\u2019t. \r\n\r\nAnn: Because we were tough. \r\n\r\nDave: Like, \u201cHey! We\u2019re running the stairs!\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s go! Get up here. I know you\u2019re hurting! What are you doing? You want to be something with your life?! You\u2019ve got to\u2026.\u201d We did that. \r\n\r\nAnn: I still don\u2019t mind that as much as: \u201cMy friend really hurt me at school, and I feel rejected,\u201d and I would brush that off instead of going into that a little deeper to see what it was.\r\n\r\nDane: Right. \r\n\r\nDave: Dane, when you say that, I know I have a tendency now\u2014my youngest son is a pastor; he\u2019s starting a church. It\u2019s starting small, and he\u2019s got staff issues. Every time he starts to talk about it, I want to coach him.\r\n\r\nDane: Right.\r\n\r\nDave: I want to say, \u201cHey, I did this for 30 years. I can fix this in five minutes.\u201d [Laughter]\r\n\r\nI am realizing that he does not even care. But if I say, \u201cThat\u2019s hard. Leading people is really, really hard,\u201d that\u2019s what he wants. If he asks for advice, I\u2019ll give it, but he does not want it. \r\n\r\nAnn: He wants you to pray for him, though. \r\n\r\nDave: He wants a dad to come beside him and say, \u201cMan, I know that\u2019s really tough.\u201d \r\n\r\nDane: That\u2019s really good. \r\n\r\nDave: I was thinking of 1 Thessalonians 2, [where Paul] says, \u201cBut we were gentle among you, like a nursing mother taking care of her own children. So, being affectionately desirous of you, we were ready to share with you not only the gospel of God, but also our own selves, because you had become very dear to us.\u201d [verses 7-8]\r\n\r\nAnn: Oh!\r\n\r\nDane: If the rugged apostle Paul\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014yes. \r\n\r\nDane: \u2014can compare himself to a breastfeeding mom\u2014\u201cnursing\u201d is what it says there,\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014yes, yes.\r\n\r\nDane: \u2014I\u2019m pretty sure there\u2019s an example there for us to follow, too. \r\n\r\nAnn: Oooh, that\u2019s a good one. \r\n\r\nDave: Yes. \r\n\r\nAnn: Okay, I have one more, guys. \r\n\r\nDane: Great. \r\n\r\nAnn: I think to have a husband or dad who is serving the family!\r\n\r\nDave: What\u2019s that look like? \r\n\r\nAnn: Whew! That is attractive, men. \r\n\r\nDave: I\u2019ve heard this many times. I wanted you to tell everybody. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: I think many wives feel like they\u2019re doing it alone. They\u2019re taking care of the kids, the house; they might be working. They have everything on their plate. \r\n\r\nBut to have a partner that\u2019s in it with us, that\u2019s even going beyond that and seeing needs\u2014I know sometimes I don\u2019t ask you for help, because I expect you to know. But sometimes when you just do\u2014you did it last night! You did the dishes. I walked in [and said], \u201cWhat?!\u201d \r\n\r\nDane: That\u2019s a profound ministry. \r\n\r\nDave: I did it\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014it is a ministry! \r\n\r\nDane: The ministry of dishes. \r\n\r\nDave: I did it hoping she\u2019d talk about it today on the show. [Laughter] No, I didn\u2019t. \r\n\r\nDane: Mission accomplished, Dave. \r\n\r\nDave: I didn\u2019t, but I was sitting there watching the NBA playoffs, and I thought, \u201cLook at those dishes.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: I was gone. \r\n\r\nDave: You were working out, out in the garage.\r\n\r\nDane: Hang on a second. Did you do it only during the commercials, or even during game time? [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: He could see the TV. \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\nDave: I did it during game time. \r\n\r\nDane: Oh, lay down your life sacrifice, Dave. [Laughter] Come on!\r\n\r\nDave: But I did think, \u201cLook at all this that she\u2019s going to come in and do.\u201d\r\n\r\nDane: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: I [thought], \u201cThis is what a man should be doing every hour\u2014\u201d\r\n\r\nDane: \u2014amen!\r\n\r\nDave: \u201c\u2014for his wife and children. We are called not to be served but to serve and give our lives as a ransom for others.\u201d That\u2019s gentle and lowly Jesus. \r\n\r\nDane: I love it. Okay, here\u2019s\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014see? Now you\u2019ve got another one. \r\n\r\nDane: No, just an asterisk to what you guys are saying. How about this street level, practical take away? Dad is coming home. It\u2019s five p.m. or whatever. He\u2019s fried and exhausted and maybe a bit discouraged from some meeting he had at work. What if he just said, \u201cGod, I\u2019m fried. I\u2019m upset. Would you please help me to serve, in gentle humility, my family?\u201d \r\n\r\nHere's the practical thing\u2014well, that\u2019s practical, too; but you walk in, and you ask a single question of your wife: \u201cHow can I serve you tonight?\u201d Then, there is no wrong answer. She gets to fill in the blank. That, to me, sounds like a healthy, flourishing marriage. \r\n\r\nDave: Oh, yes. \r\n\r\nAnn: Amen! [Laughter] Whooo! I mean thinking about that: \u201cHow can I serve you tonight?\u201d Dave, you\u2019ve gotten really good at that lately. \r\n\r\nDave: Lately. Did you hear that? That means like within the last day. \r\n\r\nAnn: No, that\u2019s a victory!\r\n\r\nDave: I would add, even as we wrap up, what Dane just said\u2014and I know that women resonate with this, too, but I know guys are thinking: \u201cI\u2019ve been there, pulling into the driveway. I\u2019m exhausted; I\u2019m discouraged.\u201d\r\n\r\nDane: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cThings haven\u2019t gone well, maybe today or this month or this week, and I can\u2019t. I don\u2019t want to walk in and serve. I want to be served.\u201d \r\n\r\nThat is a move of God to say, \u201cJesus, I don\u2019t want to do this, but I\u2019m wanting to do this. I need Your power to do it, so give me the power that, when I step into that family room (or step through that garage, whatever it is), You\u2019ll meet me right there, so when I say, \u2018How can I serve you?\u2019 I\u2019ll mean it, and I\u2019ll do it.\u201d \r\n\r\nDane: And we\u2019re never going to out serve Jesus serving us. \r\n\r\nDave: Yes, this could change your marriage tonight.\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\nShelby: What great, practical tracks to run on: \u201cAsk God to give you His strength when you interact with your family, and then transform your heart into a heart of service toward them.\u201d We love others because He first loved us. \r\n\r\nI\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Dane Ortlund on FamilyLife Today. Dane Ortlund has written a book called The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels about You. \r\n\r\nYou can get your copy right now by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or feel free to give us a call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy of Dane Ortlund\u2019s The Heart of Jesus. Again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \r\n\r\nWell, I know we\u2019re in the middle of September here, but believe it or not, February is going to be here soon. You are saying, \u201cFebruary! What are you talking about?\u201d Well, departing February 8th through the 15th is the FamilyLife Love Like You Mean It\u00ae marriage cruise. \r\n\r\nThat\u2019s right. It\u2019s a cruise designed exclusively for couples. It offers an immersive experience featuring uplifting Bible teachers like Dave and Ann Wilson, Derwin and Vicki Gray, and Jared and Becky Wilson. They\u2019re all going to be there, teaching us about the Scriptures. In addition to that, there will be entertaining Christian performances from musical artists and entertainers, along with several evenings filled with romance. \r\n\r\nSo, don\u2019t miss out. You can head on over to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the Love Like You Mean It marriage cruise banner. There you can secure your spot on the boat and be assured that your voyage on the seas is going to be dedicated to two things: renewing your relationship with your spouse and growing closer to your Savior. \r\n\r\nAgain, you can head on over to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the Love Like You Mean It marriage cruise banner. \r\n\r\nNow, coming up tomorrow, Jimmy and Kelly Needham are going to be here with Dave and Ann Wilson to talk about teaching kids about moral complexity and the need for redemption. How do you talk to your kids about that? Well, we\u2019ll discuss that tomorrow with the Needhams and the Wilsons. We hope you will join us.  \r\n\r\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?  \r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife                                 \r\n\r\n\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/298270","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=298270"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280865"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=298270"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=298270"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=298270"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=298270"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=298270"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=298270"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}