{"id":293622,"date":"2024-09-06T08:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-09-06T08:34:25","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/is-your-church-equipped-to-provide-help-for-marriages-brad-marilyn-rhoads\/"},"modified":"2025-06-10T15:12:38","modified_gmt":"2025-06-10T19:12:38","slug":"is-your-church-equipped-to-provide-help-for-marriages-brad-marilyn-rhoads","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-your-church-equipped-to-provide-help-for-marriages-brad-marilyn-rhoads\/","title":{"rendered":"Is Your Church Equipped to Provide Help for Marriages? Brad &#038; Marilyn Rhoads"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Is your church equipped to provide help for marriages? Many churches aren&#8217;t. Learn why Brad and Marilyn Rhoads decided to form a marriage ministry as they discuss this important topic with Dave and Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Is your church equipped to provide help for marriages? Many churches aren&#8217;t. Learn why Brad &#038; Marilyn Rhoads decided to form a marriage ministry.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280865,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/0d67bdbc-92bf-42ff-b19d-b1db00fb315d\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:00","filesize":"24.76M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-09-06 08:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809,2868,2860,2863],"tags":[3004],"podcast_series":[8792],"cwp_profile":[9957],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-293622","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","category-counseling-issues","category-hardship-and-suffering","category-saving-a-marriage","tag-help-for-marriages","podcast_series-the-grace-marriage-brad-marilyn-rhoads","cwp_profile-brad-marilyn-rhoads","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/293622\/is-your-church-equipped-to-provide-help-for-marriages-brad-marilyn-rhoads","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/293622\/is-your-church-equipped-to-provide-help-for-marriages-brad-marilyn-rhoads","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"oivjekRAsC\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-your-church-equipped-to-provide-help-for-marriages-brad-marilyn-rhoads\/\">Is Your Church Equipped to Provide Help for Marriages? Brad &#038; Marilyn Rhoads<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-your-church-equipped-to-provide-help-for-marriages-brad-marilyn-rhoads\/embed\/#?secret=oivjekRAsC\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Is Your Church Equipped to Provide Help for Marriages? Brad &#038; Marilyn Rhoads&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"oivjekRAsC\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Is your church equipped to provide help for marriages? Many churches aren't. Learn why Brad & Marilyn Rhoads decided to form a marriage ministry.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Connect with Brad &amp; Marilyn Rhoads and catch more of their thoughts at their website <a href=\"https:\/\/gracemarriage.com\/\">gracemarriage.com<\/a>, and on social media on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/grace_marriage\/\">Insta<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/gracemarriage\/\">Facebook<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/grace_marriage\">X<\/a>, and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UCGftI5pFVJUxuKMrnPOUiKw\">YouTube<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Grab their book, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/the-grace-marriage-how-the-gospel-and-intentionality-transform-your-relationship\">The Grace Marriage: How the Gospel and Intentionality Transform Your Relationship<\/a>, in our shop!<\/li>\n<li>Don't miss out on our biggest sale of the season! <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/weekend-to-remember\/\">Weekend to Remember registrations are half price until September 16th<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-09-06.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>Is Your Church Equipped to Provide Help for Marriages?<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Brad and Marilyn Rhoads<\/p>\n<p>From the series:The Grace Marriage (Day 3 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:September 6, 2024<\/p>\n<p>Brad: Grace is atmospheric: it settles the heart; it settles the marriage; it creates a different atmosphere. It is so cool, with our pastor last week; he said, \u201cThank you; thank you. I\u2019m being nicer to my wife; I\u2019m sending her texts for doing things. She\u2019ll joke back and say, \u2018You grace marriage-ing me again?\u2019 [Laughter] \u2018You grace marriage-ing me again?\u2019\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014Today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We\u2019ve got Brad and Marilyn Rhoads back one more time. Not only are we going to talk about The Grace Marriage, your book, we\u2019re going to talk about Grace Marriage, your ministry. Because what you\u2019re doing needs to be heard about. I don\u2019t know anybody else doing what you\u2019re doing in terms of helping churches help marriages.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Well, to do that, let\u2019s go back to your story. How long were you guys married? You\u2019re working on your marriage; God\u2019s really revealing to you what grace looks like\u2014not only the grace that He is giving\u2014but now, you\u2019re applying it to your marriage\/to your family.<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019re a successful businessman, Brad.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: He\u2019s an attorney.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014an attorney. Did you have any idea that one day you\u2019re going to be in full-time ministry?<\/p>\n<p>Brad: Zero.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Zero. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Brad: It never even hit our radar.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, what happened? How did that come about?<\/p>\n<p>Brad: We\u2019d worked with youth for about ten years at our church. We were kind of the small group leaders: go on mission trips and pour into youth. And then, as the kids we worked with got older, they came to us and said, \u201cWould you do our premarital counseling instead of our pastors?\u201d We\u2019re like, \u201cWhy?\u201d They said, \u201cWe want what you have. Show us how you do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: They saw a grace-based marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: We said, \u201cSure\u201d; and it went well. Then, they sent us another couple. I don\u2019t know why God had given us favor with marriages, but I said, \u201cLet\u2019s start a group; because we can reach, at least, eight couples at a time as opposed to one.\u201d I don\u2019t know why God has given us such favor, but [there was] a two-year waiting list to be in the group. And then, I started getting more crisis pastoral counseling requests; I was an ordained pastor of marriage at our church. This was when the light bulb went on.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re a pretty good-sized church\u2014and I saw our church does premarital counseling and crisis counseling\u2014and that\u2019s our marriage ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: Communal Barna study shows 72 percent of churches have no marriage ministry. Marriage gets almost no attention.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s one of the anchors of our civilization: marriage and family\u2014it\u2019s like what we\u2019re founded on\u2014and we\u2019re not giving it any time or attention?<\/p>\n<p>Brad: I don\u2019t get it; I don\u2019t. I don\u2019t understand, because\u2014children\u2019s ministry: great to be [included] in every church; youth ministry\u2019s great, it\u2019s [included] in every church\u2014marriage ministry is absent. We wonder why we have so much trouble getting any traction with our children and youth. It\u2019s because we\u2019re not building up the marriages in the family. Because the family they grow up in, and the marriage they grow up in, is much more impactful to their spiritual development than the weekly program the church provides.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: Before we had children, I counseled with children. It wasn\u2019t the children; it was the parents who needed the help. That was so frustrating\u2014they were coming from such brokenness\u2014you just saw the results of that. I was working with children who were first-time offenders in the court system; there were truancy issues. I was seeing that it\u2019s the families that need the help; it\u2019s not me working individually with this child. It\u2019s the work with the families that needs help.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: As a lawyer, I saw so much family breakdown. When I left the law, the family court judge from Lexington called, and said, \u201cI want you to come watch my courtroom for a day, because I heard you\u2019re doing marriage ministry.\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t need to watch courtroom; I\u2019ve done 22 years [in law].\u201d He said, \u201cNo, I want you to come.\u201d I sat there and just observed miserable person after miserable person\u2014and the most miserable people were the kids who weren\u2019t even there\u2014it was almost like God said, \u201cBrad, this is why I\u2019m calling you out of the law. This can and should be stopped, and the church is not doing what it needs to do to stop it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Because you can\u2019t just do premarital and say, \u201cGood luck,\u201d with the world we live in. It doesn\u2019t model good marriage; it doesn\u2019t model good rhythms; it doesn\u2019t model intentionality; it doesn\u2019t teach grace. Over time, invariably, two pretty good people end up hating each other and wanting out; it\u2019s unnecessary. Because if we would shepherd and disciple\u2014and give them a discipleship strategy and a discipleship pathway that they\u2019re growing in skills in marriage; that they\u2019re moving toward thriving and not drifting toward crisis\u2014it could change everything. Most of the cases I do in crisis pastoral counseling could have easily been stopped if the right rhythms had been put in five years ago.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: We\u2019ve bought into the lie that marriage should just be good without work.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Exactly. And nothing else is in life.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: Nothing else.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Nothing.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: We know we have to work at our talents; we know we have to work at parenting; we know we have to hone our skills in our jobs and everything else we do. But if there\u2019s a problem with us, then our marriage must be broken. That\u2019s crazy!<\/p>\n<p>Brad: We must not just love each other.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Imagine going into a sport\u2014you never work out; you never practice; you never even learn the rules of the game\u2014that\u2019s exactly what we do in marriage\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: \u2014that\u2019s exactly what we\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014and we think it\u2019ll be great.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: [They\u2019re] sorry and in crisis. [I\u2019ll ask], \u201cBoth of you share with me, individually, what you\u2019re specifically investing into your marriage: time, and money, and creative energy wise?\u201d They look at me, like, \u201cWhat are you talking about?\u201d I said, \u201cSo you\u2019re putting nothing into it, and its bankrupt; and you\u2019re surprised.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s the church, stepping forward, and teaching people: \u201cLet marriage be held in honor among all,\u201d\u2014Christ and the church, husband and wife, wedding celebration\u2014this is a big deal, theologically; and it\u2019s a big deal, practically. We\u2019re not going to make any traction in society until we make traction in marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I have asked Marilyn this: here you are\u2014your husband\u2019s an attorney; you\u2019ve got five kids\u2014he comes home, and I\u2019m sure you guys have been talking about it; but when he says, \u2018I\u2019m thinking of getting out of this\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Brad: \u2014\u201c\u2019law practice.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014\u201c\u2019and becoming a full-time missionary,\u2019\u201d basically\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: It was so obvious that the Lord was taking us here\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You knew it.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: \u2014before that day; because it was growing so much, and we saw the need. There were so few marriages out there that were worth emulating, and that\u2019s sad. Even in the church, you don\u2019t see magnetic marriages. Just because God had shown us and helped us\u2014like Brad said, \u201cnot because of us but because of Him\u201d\u2014kids are inspired by what we have and asking us, \u201cWould you show us?\u201d My encouragement to couples: \u201c[Having] a beautiful marriage is the best thing you can do for marriage to be held in honor and to help the next generation and people around you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So, our marriage ministry\u2019s growing at church; we\u2019ve got the law practice and the five kids. He went on a mission trip and already knew the Lord was taking us this direction. He came home from this mission trip; he said, \u201cMarilyn, we\u2019ve got to do this full-time.\u201d I said, \u201cOkay, I know this is what the Lord has for us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Brad: And I got scared. I got scared.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You did?<\/p>\n<p>Brad: Well, I thought\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, yes, because you\u2019re a budget guy. [Laughter] I get it; I get it!<\/p>\n<p>Brad: \u2014\"You\u2019ve got a budget guy with five kids. None of them have started college.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: And you\u2019re thinking, \u201cI\u2019m going to start a brand-new marriage ministry and just leave the law practice completely.\u201d I started thinking, \u201cAm I sacrificing the health of my family for what I want to do? Am I being selfless or selfish?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: So, I started over-thinking that. I remember I came to Marilyn; and Marilyn\u2019s quote was, \u201cBrad, would you please quit looking back and wasting our energy? You know what God\u2019s called us to do. Go do it!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t feel like I\u2019ve worked a day since; I love seeing marriages do better. I love seeing churches, who have no marriage ministry, all of a sudden, have a DNA of healthy marriage in their church, which is kind of expected: \u201cYou come here: marriage is a big deal.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You get so emotional about it.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: Oh, I can foresee a movement that marriage ministry that\u2019s effective is standard operating procedure in our church. The sleeping giant\u2014the church and the marriage space\u2014comes alive and changes the way marriage is done. When people see marriage done differently, it changes the next generations. We have one daughter, who\u2019s married. I asked her, after six months, \u201cHow\u2019s life, Madeline?\u201d She said, \u201cDad, it\u2019s been the best six months of my entire life!\u201d I love\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Instead of how you guys started.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: Right. She\u2019s never seen anything but dating once a week. So, [she] and Zach date once every week.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Our kids all do, too.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: They do. They don\u2019t know any different. They just [know], \u201cWhen you get married, this is what you do,\u201d because\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014they\u2019ve watched it.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: \u2014you do what you see.<\/p>\n<p>Right now, the church isn\u2019t stepping forward and showing: \u201cThis is what you do.\u201d So, everybody\u2019s perpetuating a busy culture, where marriage does not get anything but fatigue leftovers. And we all scratch our heads [over] why it\u2019s not working. The decline of marriage makes all too much sense. You leave a space open; Satan will have a heyday with it, both definitionally and in every other way. I think the hope is salt and light; the church stepping forward.<\/p>\n<p>Marriage is beautiful! It\u2019s amazing. I love being married to Marilyn. I think millions of people are missing out. When they step forward, their fruitfulness in the ministry, their fruitfulness in their job, their life, their energy, their emotional health will all increase as the strength of their marriage increase.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: That\u2019s also fuel for loving when you don\u2019t feel like it, when I think about\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014for grace.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: \u2014\u201cThis is so much bigger than just our marriage, for me to pursue Brad, for me to love Brad while he\u2019s still a sinner. It\u2019s so much bigger than us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What do you do when you come in and bring grace marriage to a church? What\u2019s it look like?<\/p>\n<p>Brad: God\u2019s given us a wonderful, amazing team, that\u2019s helped us put together seven full years of curriculum that changes, consistently. What we do is\u2014if a church says, \u201cWe want a marriage ministry,\u201d\u2014we give them everything they need: promotional schedule, promotional materials, promotional videos; they can white label it from social media graphics to everything; they don\u2019t have to create anything; we\u2019ve created it for them.<\/p>\n<p>And then, we have church specialists who walk alongside them. We realize that two of the barriers of marriage ministry are staff time and church budget. It can be lay-led; and it\u2019s participant paid, because we want people to invest in their marriage. \u201cMy marriage is worth a little bit of money, and a little bit of time, on a consistent basis.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>They give that, they see transformation. Churches start realizing that, when we intercept couples at a point of stability, and we get them dating, enjoying one another physically, they see quick change. But if you wait until they\u2019re at a point of crisis, and pour a ton of money into them, most of them end up divorced.<\/p>\n<p>We teach the church a strategy, and we provide them everything they need. There are multiple methodologies, so each church\u2019s marriage ministry is going to look a little different. Some, it\u2019s monthly; some, it\u2019s six weeks in the spring and six weeks in the fall; some, it\u2019s a quarterly model, which I learned through business coaching (and what our church does). We just help every church create that atmosphere of healthy marriage in their church. We have an ongoing platform, so it\u2019s not just a study, and it\u2019s not just a conference, but it\u2019s an ongoing strategy, where you keep people in your ministry.<\/p>\n<p>You would never do a youth ministry\u2014\u201cHey, why don\u2019t you do youth ministry for six weeks?\u201d \u201cWhy don\u2019t you do youth ministry for a year?\u201d No, \u201cYou\u2019re in the youth ministry.\u201d So now, we\u2019re creating a culture where: \u201cYou\u2019re in the marriage ministry, and you\u2019re on an ongoing growth track.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: And we\u2019ve got a few rhythms that we do every time we get together, whether it\u2019s quarterly [or] monthly:<\/p>\n<p>We talk about gratitude. It\u2019s all about our perspective; so, focusing on the good, the lovely, the praise-worthy, the admirable. That\u2019s one of my favorite things that we do. We take time to stop and reflect on: \u201cWhat\u2019s going well?\u201d We just so naturally bend toward what\u2019s not going well.<\/p>\n<p>To write all that down\u2014to talk about it; to speak that out loud; to each other is so life-giving to the marriage. We revisit grace over and over [again], because we all need to be reminded of grace.<\/p>\n<p>We also have an \u201cintimacy igniter,\u201d we call it, where you sit and you just talk and just listen about the things that are on your heart. We offer examples of questions if you don\u2019t know what to talk about. But if there\u2019s a pressing issue in your home\u2014a crisis time or a celebratory time, you can just share.<\/p>\n<p>We don\u2019t often take space to just sit and listen to each other. It\u2019s a neutral space. So, if there\u2019s something hard to talk about, it\u2019s a good time to talk about it, because it\u2019s not in the heat of the moment. It\u2019s so much better to address issues outside of the heat of the moment.<\/p>\n<p>And then, we have the [Matthew] 6:21 Challenge: \u201cWhere your treasure is, your heart will be also.\u201d \u201cOkay, plan your next\u2014before you meet next time, how many times are you going to date? Are you going to try and get away overnight?\u2019\u201d\u2014like you\u2019re talking about. It\u2019s fun to have those things to look forward to.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: We have them block time off their calendar, commit to spending on their marriage. We sell them on marriage, which it\u2019s not a hard sell, because it\u2019s just true. I feel like, as a lawyer, God\u2019s given me a perfect case nobody can argue with. It\u2019s \u201cpresent the rest of your life.\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s what I do.<\/p>\n<p>We have them schedule their time: \u201cYou agree that marriage is important?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cYes,\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cOkay, let\u2019s go ahead and put it on the schedule.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Because now, there\u2019s an implementation gap. They\u2019ll go to a good conference; they\u2019ll go and hear good preaching; but they go home and do life just like they\u2019ve always done it. What we do is have them write things down; commit; work together; and hold them accountable to not let life squeeze out marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m just thinking of people listening right now, whose hearts are burning: \u201cThis makes sense. This is what we need.\u201d I would add: if you\u2019re feeling that\u2014that nudge, that\u2019s the Holy Spirit. You could take this, as a volunteer, into your church. FamilyLife\u00ae is all about this.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s what we do.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes. What if every listener brought this into their church? It would start changing\u2014not only a marriage; then, it would start changing a family, start changing a community, start changing a region. And now, we\u2019ve got marriages [that] are on the Rock of Jesus: \u201cWhew! Look out!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Talk about this: you went from being an attorney, and now, you\u2019re both together, in a ministry together. \u201cHow has that affected your marriage?\u201d Because that\u2019s what we do; it\u2019s not always easy.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: It\u2019s been more challenging than we thought. We started doing content videos together. I\u2019m really driven and focused; Marilyn\u2019s bigger on kindness and gentleness. [Laughter] One of our team members said, \u201cWhen you all do videos, you\u2019re really not that nice.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWhoa! That\u2019s kind of bad!\u201d I came home, told Marilyn, \u201cElaine said, \u2018You\u2019re not that nice.\u2019\u201d She goes, \u201cWe are not!\u201d Because I\u2019ve come in there: \u201cWe\u2019re going to finish these eight content videos,\u201d you know?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You guys are brothers! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Brad: I know.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: She\u2019s already like, \u201cYou\u2019re not nice either!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Short and snappy! I\u2019m like, \u201cI don\u2019t really want to do this with you right now,\u201d right? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Brad: I\u2019m like, \u201cMarilyn did not come in the studio to talk about this. We came in the studio to do this. We can talk about that, but we\u2019re here for a reason.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I would say, \u201cThat\u2019s fine, but can you do it and say it in a nice way?\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Brad: It\u2019s been a challenge. We\u2019re in a good spot now. I\u2019ve had to be more graceful and just let things play out as they play out, and not be as goal-oriented and driven, like, \u201cWe\u2019re going to produce this in this amount of time.\u201d And let her talk to the rest of the team and be nice to everybody. And it\u2019s, \u201c\u2026whenever we finish!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You find the same thing, Marilyn?<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: Yes, it\u2019s so funny. Early on, it was even harder (when we first started), not realizing how hard it was going to be. The guy who works with us on content\u2014we were, literally, working on a communication video and fighting right before it started. He was right there, watching it all. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m going to add, because Marilyn and I talked about this as we walked over to the studio, the spiritual battle over marriages is so great. There\u2019s such an attack on our homes, on our kids, on our marriages. I don\u2019t know why we\u2019re surprised\u2014especially, for ministry\u2014but any marriage. When we start wanting it to be great, and you start taking those steps, don\u2019t be surprised if attacks will happen; don\u2019t you think?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, and FamilyLife has always had a theme, at our Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage conferences, that \u201cyour spouse is not your enemy.\u201d We went to this conference as an engaged couple, never thinking we\u2019d be here with FamilyLife, years later.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But that was the first time we ever heard that concept. And then, we got married two weeks later. Immediately, I thought she was my enemy! [Laughter] It\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t like you, and you don\u2019t like me.\u201d Literally, our first year was a real struggle.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We used our words as weapons.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, and you forget there\u2019s an enemy, and it\u2019s not your spouse.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: Yes, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: In fact, that enemy would love you to think it\u2019s not him; it\u2019s your spouse. If you\u2019re in a foxhole together, and you\u2019re fighting each other, his battle is done.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: He won.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Turn together, as warriors together, and say, \u201cThere\u2019s the enemy. Let\u2019s fight him together.\u201d But man, he wants to divide marriages.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And I would add this\u2014because, as many couples, maybe you thought this at the beginning when you struggled: \u201cWe\u2019re disqualified. We could never do anything.\u201d When you\u2019re in the midst of that struggle: \u201cGod could never use us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think so many couples listening to this\u2014maybe they\u2019ve been divorced; maybe they\u2019re blending, and that\u2019s really hard\u2014God still wants to use you. If your kids are gone\u2014you\u2019re empty nesters, whew! [Those] would be the ones who would champion a marriage ministry in a church, right? Because now, they have a little more time and capacity to be able to bring that passion into pouring into other couples. There are so many opportunities.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: What we\u2019ve seen is, we\u2019ve put together a marriage leadership team of<\/p>\n<p>11 couples. Nobody spends much time on it; but they love marriage, and they love each other. They all have small roles, but together, we have about 100 couples that do the ongoing investment of a church of 800. One of my board members said, \u201cCouples will never be more intentional with their marriages than churches are with their marriage ministries. Unless it\u2019s important enough for you to have a devoted ministry, don\u2019t expect your couples to prioritize it, because a church is that important.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It is tough, and it can be discouraging. My board [member] always says, \u201cBrad, it\u2019s a hill worth dying on.\u201d He said, \u201cYou lose marriage, you lose everything. It\u2019s a battle that everything else depends on.\u201d I would just say, if you\u2019re listening, and your church doesn\u2019t have a devoted marriage ministry, \u201cPlease be the impetus to step forward and make sure it occurs.\u201d It doesn\u2019t have to be somebody on staff, but people who aren\u2019t on staff sure can influence those who are on staff.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes. You probably heard some incredible stories. Your story is really encouraging and inspirational! Have you heard other stories of people that this has made a difference in their marriage?<\/p>\n<p>Brad: All the time. It\u2019s amazing the difference you make in a marriage when you get them at a point of stability. We get more testimonies, primarily, because we catch them at a point of stability than a point of crisis.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: We get them all the time. A pastor last week said, \u201cThank you, thank you. I\u2019m being nicer to my wife. I\u2019m sending her texts for doing things. She\u2019ll joke back and say, \u2018You grace marriage-ing me again?\u2019 [Laughter] \u2018You grace marriage-ing me again?\u2019\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Another one said, \u201cI was always mad at my husband because he worked too late. The first night after our session (or one of the nights after the session), he was working late. I texted him; I said, \u2018Can\u2019t wait to see you when you get home.\u2019 He said, \u2018Sorry I\u2019m late.\u2019 She [typed] \u2018Grace! Can\u2019t wait to see you [Smiley face].\u2019 He said [later], \u2018I couldn\u2019t wait to get home.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Grace is atmospheric. It settles the heart; it settles the marriage; it creates a different atmosphere. It is so cool. Our pastor once said, \u201cNo longer am I taking away from my ministry in my marriage. I\u2019m remaining qualified for it, having a blast with my wife. Thank you, thank you. Please tell everybody.\u201d His entire experience in ministry changed when he went from a busy, tired pastor with a tired wife, to an amazing marriage and leading out of that. It\u2019s because they\u2019re all set.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That makes it worth it, doesn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p>Brad: It sure does. I can\u2019t tell you how much I love what God allows me to do.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, it is amazing! We found this, really, from year one, when we were struggling\u2014we said this many times here: as we get to Nebraska, to begin our ministry as chaplain for the sports teams there, the first football player I meet says\u2014it\u2019s so ironic [since] we are really not doing well at all; of course, nobody knows that; it\u2019s a secret at this point\u2014he says to me: \u201cHey, a lot of us are married. Could you and Ann lead a marriage Bible study with the football team?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: Oh, wow!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m thinking, \u201cYou have the wrong couple.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: He told me, and I said, \u201cWe don\u2019t even like each other.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But what did we say? We said, \u201cSure! We\u2019d love to!\u201d Because that\u2019s what you say when you\u2019re in ministry. We learned the words of Jesus\u2014we didn\u2019t know it at that time. He says, \u201cIf you want to find your life, lose it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Brad: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We lost it. We gave our life away; our marriage. We literally took the manual from FamilyLife\u2014from the conference we went to, that we really didn\u2019t listen to, because we didn\u2019t think we needed it [Laughter]\u2014and we taught it, not even knowing what\u2019s really in it. Now, we\u2019ve been teaching it almost 40 years.<\/p>\n<p>But we taught it, and we learned a critical listen about marriage: \u201cIf you want to save your marriage, bless others. Give your marriage away. Help others.\u201d Because it\u2019s so easy\u2014we look inward; we look at each other. I\u2019m not saying that\u2019s unimportant. That\u2019s part of it: you\u2019ve got to fix what\u2019s broken in your own life; but it\u2019s so crazy to think, \u201cYou really want to save your marriage? Look up [to] Jesus. Look out and see the needs and start meeting them, and God will meet your marriage.\u201d I don\u2019t know if we helped those other couples, [but] He saved our marriage. Isn\u2019t that what you found?<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: Yes, absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: Yes, we had the same experience. We went to a premarital conference, two days, paid $300. We left after 30 minutes and laughed. [Laughter] We laughed and said, \u201cIsn\u2019t it good they have this for people?\u201d Literally, we thought,\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014\u201cWho needs this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Brad: \u2014\u201cThey don\u2019t know how special\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014\u201cwe are.\u201d That\u2019s so true!<\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s what I\u2019m wondering: if you\u2019re a listener, and you\u2019ve been tracking with us, what\u2019s God doing in your heart, right now? What would grace look like in your marriage right now? Put your husband or your wife in mind\u2014maybe the things that are bothering you, or the things that just keep cycling back. What would grace look like? Maybe you text them; maybe you write a note to them; maybe, when they come in the door, you apologize. That\u2019s where you started, Marilyn: \u201cI\u2019m really sorry for the way I\u2019ve been treating\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Brad: \u2014move toward them.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Move toward them.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: Not away.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And what did you say? What were your words that you said to Brad?<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: He says it a little stronger, but I did say, \u201cI don\u2019t need you to have joy, and I\u2019m sorry I\u2019ve put you in the place of God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I said, basically, those same words to Dave. I felt like God convicted me the night of our ten-year anniversary, when He said, \u201cYou\u2019ve been trying to find life through your husband. He was never made, or qualified, or meant to meet all of your needs. That\u2019s My job.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, maybe, besides that grace, we go to the Father first\u2014our Father who loves us, and we say, \u201cFather, I need Your grace. It\u2019s already poured out, but I need to receive that and remember that You forgive me. I\u2019ve been failing at this, and You are the One who can meet all of my needs. You\u2019re the One.\u201d That\u2019s the start of a great marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Amen. Thanks, guys!<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: Thank you for having us.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: It\u2019s been great.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It was really fun.<\/p>\n<p>Marilyn: It\u2019s been so fun to be with you.<\/p>\n<p>Brad: Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Really fun.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: I love this conversation over the last three days with Brad and Marilyn. Such strong gospel truth combined with practical ways to strengthen your marriage. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Brad and Marilyn Rhoads on FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Brad and Marilyn have written a book called The Grace Marriage: How the Gospel and Intentionality Transform Your Relationship. You heard a lot about that today. You can get your copy of their book to learn more by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com or clicking on the link in the show notes. Or feel free to give us a call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy. Again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Right now is your last chance to save 50 percent off on all Weekend to Remember registrations for the fall. Don\u2019t miss out on our biggest sale of the season. The Weekend to Remember registrations, right now, are half price until September 16. Whether your marriage needs a boost, or you just want to grow closer as a couple, now is the time to act. You can visit FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the Weekend to Remember banner right there on the page to learn more. Again, you can head over to FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Now, coming up next week, Brittany and Rechab Gray are here to talk about their journey of parenting children with sickle cell disease, and coping with loss, while finding faith. That\u2019s coming up next week. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs? Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/293622","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=293622"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280865"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=293622"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=293622"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=293622"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=293622"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=293622"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=293622"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}