{"id":287237,"date":"2024-08-20T08:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-08-20T11:39:48","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/that-time-we-fled-iran-life-as-a-christian-refugee-daniel-nayeri\/"},"modified":"2025-06-10T16:52:04","modified_gmt":"2025-06-10T20:52:04","slug":"that-time-we-fled-iran-life-as-a-christian-refugee-daniel-nayeri","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/that-time-we-fled-iran-life-as-a-christian-refugee-daniel-nayeri\/","title":{"rendered":"That Time We Fled Iran; Life as a Christian Refugee: Daniel Nayeri"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>What&#8217;s life like as a refugee? Author Daniel Nayeri fled Iran due to persecution when his mom became a Christian. You won&#8217;t want to miss his story of faith, resilience, and the kindness of others.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What&#8217;s life like as a refugee? Author Daniel Nayeri fled Iran due to persecution. Don&#8217;t miss his story of faith, resilience, and the kindness of others.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280865,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/aeaf005c-1d73-4d57-99d7-b1cb00e8a8a2\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:54","filesize":"27.41M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-08-20 08:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[2796],"podcast_series":[8787],"cwp_profile":[9955],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-287237","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-christian-persecution","podcast_series-everything-sad-is-untrue-daniel-nayeri","cwp_profile-daniel-nayeri","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/287237\/that-time-we-fled-iran-life-as-a-christian-refugee-daniel-nayeri","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/287237\/that-time-we-fled-iran-life-as-a-christian-refugee-daniel-nayeri","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"2eu82zNL6E\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/that-time-we-fled-iran-life-as-a-christian-refugee-daniel-nayeri\/\">That Time We Fled Iran; Life as a Christian Refugee: Daniel Nayeri<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/that-time-we-fled-iran-life-as-a-christian-refugee-daniel-nayeri\/embed\/#?secret=2eu82zNL6E\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;That Time We Fled Iran; Life as a Christian Refugee: Daniel Nayeri&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"2eu82zNL6E\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"What's life like as a refugee? Author Daniel Nayeri fled Iran due to persecution. Don't miss his story of faith, resilience, and the kindness of others.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Help make YOUR mark: Your donation supports crucial resources for families and includes a special FamilyLife Pen and <a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/august-2024\/urgent-need\/?cru_source=FLTD24&amp;cru_medium=Icare&amp;cru_campaign=August2024&amp;_gl=1*i7nrhi*_gcl_aw*R0NMLjE3MTcwMTQ3ODQuQ2owS0NRandwTnV5QmhDdUFSSXNBTkpxTDlOZnNmVlp5TUhEOU55WG14QjFTbVhFb3FLTUFlM3dsRGZlLUUtaTh5U2NjN0hfSnNVQnNZc2FBbVhnRUFMd193Y0I.*_gcl_au*MTk2MDk5NjM3Mi4xNzE4NjM0NDIz*_ga*OTI3MTAyODQ4LjE2OTUxMjkzOTk.*_ga_85G8JM3S5D*MTcyMzQwNzQ5MC42MzkuMS4xNzIzNDA5NDc2LjQ2LjAuMTI4NjI3MTUzNg..&amp;_ga=2.4838195.1899240771.1723407491-927102848.1695129399\">Brant Hansen's book, \"Unoffendable\"\u2014join us today!<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Connect with Daniel at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.danielnayeri.com\/\">danielnayeri.com<\/a>, or find him on social media @danielnayeri.<\/li>\n<li>Pick up a copy of his book, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/everything-sad-is-untrue-a-true-story\">Everything Sad is Untrue<\/a>: (a true story), at our shop!<\/li>\n<li>Dig deeper into topics of <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/category\/articles\/topics\/faith\/\">faith<\/a> and family at <a href=\"http:\/\/familylife.com\/\">familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-08-20.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>That Time We Fled Iran: Life as a Christian Refugee<\/p>\n<p>Guest:Daniel Nayeri<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Everything Sad Is Untrue (Day 2 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:August 20, 2024<\/p>\n<p>Ann: One of the favorite things that we get to do is we get to hear from some of our listeners.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, that\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Chris from Tennessee\u2014he said this\u2014\u201cI listen every day. I am so glad that you have the app; because if I miss a day, I can go back and listen to it. Oftentimes, I go back and listen to programs from before; because they are worth repeating.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Here\u2019s the great thing: There are millions of Chris\u2019s and Christine\u2019s out there, listening to the FamilyLife\u00ae broadcast, the podcasts; they\u2019re going to our Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage conferences; they\u2019re buying our resources. God is changing the world, one home at a time; and FamilyLife is a big part of that. Here\u2019s the thing: we want to invite you to help us change the world.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, we have a goal of raising $250,000\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014this month\u2014the month of August!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s a big goal; but I tell you what\u2014you can be a part of joining us and being a partner with us\u2014you can give at any level you like. You can do that\u2014just go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014and you can make a donation.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And if you give, we\u2019re going to send you one of our favorite books by one of our favorite authors,\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014Brant Hansen; oh, yes, he\u2019s the best.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014Brant Hansen. It\u2019s called Unoffendable.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, you\u2019re never offended; neither am I. [Laughter] But no, it helps us to live an unoffendable life.<\/p>\n<p>And we\u2019re going to send you a limited-edition FamilyLife pen, so you can take notes of Brant\u2019s book;\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I want one of those.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014and it\u2019s another way to remember: you\u2019re making a mark, and we\u2019re making a mark together. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and make a mark right now.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We need you.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: You cannot just want the God of the Law; because if that\u2019s all you have, then you will become a punishing person: a person who wants justice, at all costs, and has no love. And then, of course, if you only want the God, who listens\u2014then, absolutely, you want love\u2014but you want it without standards; you want it without expectation; and you want it without obligation. You have to have both.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife app.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Alright; we are back for Part Two\u2014it may be Part Two of Twelve\u2014I don\u2019t know. [Laughter] This story, with Daniel Nayeri [Laughter]\u2014Daniel, say your last name\u2014because we\u2019ve been talking about this off-air.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: Yes, Nayeri.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We\u2019re talking about your book, Everything Sad Is Untrue, which is really your story. Yesterday, you ended with: basically, you sleep under the bed; because you\u2019re so scared.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014as a little boy.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Recap for us, Daniel, where we\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201438 seconds to recap the whole of last time; go on. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: \u2014FLR. [Laughter] Where were we? Well, we were born and raised in Iran. My mother, a devout Muslim, converts to Christianity as a matter of faith and conscience. It\u2019s a capital crime, so she\u2019s caught by the secret police\u2014interrogated\u2014and told that, if they don\u2019t tell the names of all the people in the underground church, they\u2019ll kill her and her kids. Jump forward to a quick escape from Iran, where my father chooses to stay; my mother, my sister, and I become refugees.<\/p>\n<p>I think we pick it up there: we land from a plane into the UAE [United Arab Emirates], where, at that point, we become what is known as the global homeless, right? The difference between a refugee and an immigrant, of course, is that their state of citizenship or their country of citizenship is trying to do them harm. This happens in instances of civil war, of revolution\u2014these kinds of things. At that point, all of our documents are moot; we don\u2019t have citizenship. I don\u2019t think we even packed\u2014I know we didn\u2019t pack\u2014my birth certificate. Quite a lot of complexity gets put into the system; but effectively, we\u2019re missing from our court date in Iran; and now, wandering in the UAE.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And you are how old?\u2014and your sister.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: I\u2019m five; she\u2019s eight. And we\u2019re with my mom.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And you\u2019re coming from an affluent family\u2014where your dad was a dentist; your mom\u2019s a doctor\u2014and now, you have nothing.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: Yes, that was quite a threshold, right? In Iran, there was quite a lot of land. My mother had her own practice; my father had his own practice. We had a lovely home in Isfahan, in a nice area\u2014and all the family\u2019s around, so all that institutional and generational wealth\u2014grandpa has a house, and you can go there on the weekends; and it\u2019s on a beautiful orchard, because he tills and works the land. Yes, I would call it, certainly by comparison, an incredibly affluent life. The minute we become refugees, yes, it goes away.<\/p>\n<p>There was actually a missionary couple from Australia\u2014and they were doctors, as well\u2014and they had a clinic in Abu Dhabi. We were able to live in the back of that clinic. My mother worked there for about ten months while we were trying to figure out how to get asylum. When you\u2019re a refugee, one of the tasks is that you\u2019re going to the embassies of these different countries\u2014if you need protection from Iran and government\u2014you\u2019re looking for asylum; you\u2019re looking for protection. Your choices are\u2014the UK, Canada, America, Australia\u2014the West. You\u2019re going to these embassies; and you\u2019re effectively speaking to these administrators and trying to convince them of a lot of things.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s a dark place; it\u2019s a dark world. One of the first things you have to establish is: \u201cAre these actually your kids?\u201d There\u2019s a lot of trafficking; so if we don\u2019t have the documentation\u2014if you don\u2019t have; and frankly, if you don\u2019t even speak [the language]\u2014there\u2019s a lot of challenge in saying: \u201cOkay, we need to have a translator,\u201d \u201cWe need to fill out all the papers.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You don\u2019t have your birth certificate.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: Right; exactly. We have to sit in\u2014and then, they\u2019re in Farsi, right?\u2014so you\u2019re in this very amorphous holding pattern. The waiting room is chock full of people\u2014there\u2019s babies everywhere; there\u2019s people everywhere; there\u2019s crying; it\u2019s a very chaotic environment\u2014think of the worst DMV you\u2019ve ever been to.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: There\u2019s a lot of\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014which is terrible.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: Exactly!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: There\u2019s a lot of: \u201cTake a number.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: A lot of papers, in a language you don\u2019t speak; a lot of people trying to hawk their translation services\u2014some of them well-meaning; some of them, maybe, they\u2019re there to try to make a buck\u2014so you\u2019re trying to suss this out\/you\u2019re trying to figure out: \u201cWhat\u2019s going on?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019re waiting for your turn; you get your number; you have a person\u2014an unsmiling individual\u2014who\u2019s there to ask a lot of questions. Frankly, they\u2019re there to filter a lot of what we could, euphemistically, call shenanigans\u2014a lot of people trying to get places; people are lying about their refugee status\u2014a lot of people are just trying to get to the West, and they\u2019re not in any kind of danger. You have to establish the fact that you\u2019re in physical harm; there\u2019s actual danger for you. You have to establish, again, these are your kids; they\u2019re going to interview the kids.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s a very pressurized environment\u2014that\u2019s just for one country\u2014you\u2019re interviewing\/applying for lots of countries. It\u2019s a time that a lot of people describe as a lot of waiting, a lot of misunderstanding, a lot of trying to tell your story to somebody, who\u2014it\u2019s not, necessarily, their fault; they\u2019re, at that point, immune to the pain of other people\u2014they sit there, [listening]\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014every day.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: \u2014there are liars; and there are thieves; and there\u2019s also tragic, horrible circumstances; and there\u2019s people who are in extreme duress, and none of it can be communicated [because] the language barrier is very real.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Have you ever asked your mom, at that time, \u201cWhat was going on for her, spiritually?\u201d I\u2019m imagining, myself, with two little kids: I\u2019m praying; I\u2019m crying, like, \u201cGod, I need you so desperately.\u201d Did she ever talk about that?<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: She does, yes; the strain was quite heavy at that point. I remember days where she\u2019s just so stressed: crying, breaking down at the back of a bus, or something like that. Those days are there, too; but on the whole, kind of this feeling of provision\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: She felt God\u2019s hand.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: Yes; there was so many instances of something wild happening\u2014some very improbable\u2014for example, we hear that the Iranian government is searching for us. It was a black eye that [looks for] this person who had committed apostacy. We hear this; and we think, \u201cOh, no; what could happen?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Within a short period of time, we hear that we get a temporary admittance to Italy, where they had a refugee camp set up\u2014a refugee settlement\u2014it was an old hotel called the hotel Barba in the outskirts of Rome. There\u2019s a feeling\u2014a malaise, culturally and spiritually\u2014that happens in these places, where you\u2019re just waiting. You have a sudden negative space that happens in your life; this is what\u2019s happening for months and months.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Ah; I can\u2019t imagine.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: You don\u2019t get the feeling\u2014you can\u2019t garden, right?\u2014will you even [stay long enough to] wait for the stuff to come up? You can\u2019t\/you don\u2019t think to yourself: \u201cCan I maximize my productivity during this time?\u201d You just think:<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI may just wait for this pay-for-work to happen\u201d; and then, \u201cWho knows where I\u2019ll be?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cDo you even study English, or should you study Swedish?\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t know; you could end up in either one.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s a real challenge there. My mother was very aggressively trying to keep us out of that nihilistic; that\u2019s just the sadness of it all.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I can\u2019t imagine.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: She found a family again\u2014she was searching through these church organizations\u2014she found a family who were there for the husband\u2019s work. They were homeschooling their kids; so they have these workbooks\/this curriculum\u2014there were<\/p>\n<p>66 workbooks; 11 subjects\u2014or 6 subjects; 11 books. They had kids our age.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019d get on a bus every morning instead of staying in this refugee-holding space. We would get on a bus, go through Rome, get to their house; they were really kind about letting us have the old books that they had used. She would buy these big erasers; he would sit next to us, and erase workbooks all day, and hand them to my sister and me. We would fill them out; that\u2019s how I learned the beginnings of English.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Nice. [Laughter] Look at your mom go!<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: She\u2019s wild, right?\u2014unstoppable.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes! And look at God\u2014giving her wisdom as to what to do, where to go, who to talk to\u2014but He puts these pretty pivotal people in your lives.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: Absolutely, yes. That\u2019s where, I think, a lot of the feeling of the answer to prayer happens in her life; because it\u2019s just in the form of people having kids exactly our age. That\u2019s wild, right? I mean, that\u2019s not improbable; but it\u2019s not exactly common, either.<\/p>\n<p>I remember our time in Italy as kind of fascinating and beautiful. We didn\u2019t have the money to sight-see; but we would go to a town, like Florence, and sleep on the train on the way back; but also, get six hours there. I think it\u2019s the energy of her: \u201cWe\u2019re not going to sit,\u201d \u201cThis isn\u2019t going to be a death sentence.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cAre you listening to that?\u201d\u2014as women. [Laughter] I\u2019m thinking of the many moms, who are listening: \u201cWe impact our kids. They\u2019re watching us: they feel our energy; they feel our walk with God.\u201d I think that is important to remind ourselves: \u201cWe\u2019re making a difference in our kids\u2019 lives.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: Yes, to this day, that kind of travel is my favorite.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Really?<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: Yes, I adore backpacking and traveling in a really limited way. I think it\u2019s from that memory.<\/p>\n<p>The story goes: we spent another stint there until a family in Oklahoma\u2014we hear through several different church organizations\u2014were willing to sponsor us. Their names were Jim and Jean Dawson. Jim was a retired engineer from NASA, and Jean was a teacher. They had had their children, and their children were grown. They lived in this house in Edmond, were retired.<\/p>\n<p>Kind of a wild thing to do\u2014I think upon it now\u2014they felt that God had put it on their heart to do that. You would have to; because, logistically, a banana\u2019s thing to do. Imagine you [read] on paper\u2014a single mom, [who] doesn\u2019t speak the language; two kids under ten\u2014they\u2019re going to come. If they become wards of the state, your credit is shot\u2014[Laughter] it\u2019s completely\u2014to cosign for a refugee family is a really big burden.<\/p>\n<p>To my mother\u2019s credit, she wasn\u2019t here to be still, either. We landed; within weeks, she has her driver\u2019s license, her green card, and has a job. We weren\u2019t there [at their house] longer than a few\u2014in was within weeks\u2014we had an apartment.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Could she speak English?<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: At that time, it would be a very difficult English. She could understand pretty well; but making herself understood was a lot harder, pretty strong accent. Not able to work in a high-professional capacity\u2014she had more menial jobs at that time\u2014the language barrier was the reason.<\/p>\n<p>We live in Oklahoma. Now, all of a sudden, it\u2019s that kind of story of: everything is different, and everything is new. I\u2019m trying to just understand it all.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Listen to this quote; it says: \u201cThe legend of my mom is that she can\u2019t be stopped: not when you hit her; not when a whole country, full of goons, puts her in a cage; not even if you make her poor and try to kill her slowly in the little-by-little poison of sadness. The legend is true, I think, because she\u2019s fixed her eyes on something beyond the rivers of blood to a beautiful place on the other side. How else would anybody do it?\u201d What a tribute to your mom.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: Yes, yes; she\u2019s absolutely the hero of this book. There\u2019s another line in there that I think of as my mother\u2019s mantra; which is, trying to redefine strength for people. It\u2019s not like this gigantic, muscled, tough guy; it\u2019s, for me, this image of my mother, who is this very diminutive person. The line is: \u201cIf you don\u2019t stop, you\u2019re unstoppable,\u201d\u2014not if you\u2019re incapable of being stopped\u2014but \u201cIf you don\u2019t stop, they\u2019re unstoppable.\u201d I think about that a lot when I think about her.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: When you think back on your life\u2014and even now\u2014where do you see God or Jesus in the story?\u2014besides walking in your sister\u2019s bed\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: \u2014tangibly in the room? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes; I mean, as you look through, and think about your life, do you feel like there\u2019s a Jesus behind the curtain the whole time?<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: Oh, of course! I don\u2019t know if He was so removed as to be behind the curtain. I think\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Good answer.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: I think He was right in the middle of the whole thing. It\u2019s almost impossible not to. It would be very challenging for me to dis-associate this; because my life is utterly different. A story\u2014no matter how sad or problematic\u2014once it ends this way, has to have been the best path; because it ended with my wife and sons. Once you have a kid, the valance of almost every decision you\u2019ve made changes; that journey led to here, and I\u2019m utterly grateful for it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Was there a moment where you\u2019re faith in that Jesus\u2014like your mom\u2019s faith\u2014did that happen for you in high school?\u2014or middle school?\u2014or any time?<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: Yes, one thing I always say is: \u201cWhen you have a mom like mine, you have to contend with this topic. [Laughter] You cannot\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cMoms, are you listening to this?\u201d This is so good for us to hear.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: I\u2019ll tell my friends\/adults\u2014we\u2019ll be sitting around\u2014I\u2019ll tell them part of the story. I\u2019ll describe what she had\u2014all the material things of the world\u2014and then, I describe what life was like for a long time for us, where we were dirt-poor. There will be a moment where people are standing around, listening; someone will always pause, and say, \u201cSo then, why did she do all this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>What\u2019s funny\u2014my mom always gets this really cheeky look in her face\u2014when someone asks that question; because she\u2019ll\/the only answer is: \u201cBecause it\u2019s true.\u201d You have to ask yourself, when you look at my mother: \u201cWas she nuts?\u201d\u2014like \u201cThe worst trade in the history of trades,\u201d\u2014or \u201cDid she make a good trade?\u201d And the trade was everything: family, home, country, money, wealth, practice, professional advancement\u2014you name it\u2014and on the other side, is: \u201cNothing but Jesus.\u201d You say, \u201cShe\u2019s either nuts or she\u2019s a logical person, who made a trade that had absolutely the right value.\u201d Because no one makes a trade unless they think they\u2019re getting the better part.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right; right.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: She got the better part of that trade.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: As you\u2019re talking about that your mom\u2019s the hero of the story, and your mom\u2019s hero is Jesus\u2014Jesus is the One who did all of that\u2014and He continues to do that for all of us. I look at you\u2014you grow up; as a young man\u2014you\u2019re in Tim Keller\u2019s church, being discipled by him for years. Of all the places to go, spiritually, for that depth of being discipled\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: He could have been in our church, been discipled by me; but yes, Tim Keller\u2019s a good second. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m imagining your mom to be a woman of prayer\u2014that she\u2019s just been on her face, before God\u2014asking Him to guide, to lead, to show. And her life has been hard; and yet, miraculous, too. You\u2019re such a reflection of all of that.<\/p>\n<p>Don\u2019t you think that, with him?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, yes; I haven\u2019t met her; I\u2019ve seen her on video. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>I love how you described: \u201cDo you want a God who listens?\u201d or \u201c\u2026a God who speaks?\u201d Explain that.<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: I was watching all the adults as a young person. I started to think about the way they interacted. When you talk to my mother\u2014especially, during that time\u2014the answer to so many things was: \u201cGod.\u201d Like she was a bad Sunday school teacher, where it\u2019s just like: \u201cSo why are we leaving my house?\u201d \u201c\u2026with Jesus.\u201d \u201cOkay\u201d; is that going to be the answer to everything?\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>As a kid, [I was] very aware of what people\/how people interacted with their impressions of God. There\u2019s this line\u2014the theme in the [Keller\u2019s] book that what he\u2019s saying\u2014\u201cWould you rather a God who speaks or a God who listens?\u201d He describes the God who speaks is the God who comes down the mountain and gives you the Law\u2014He declares; He tells you how to be\u2014He\u2019s the God of the Old Testament. He is the God who holds forth, and your job is to shut up and submit. And then, there\u2019s the God who listens, who sits down beside you, and lets you talk and hears your troubles, and hears your sadness, and understands it, and takes it on; that\u2019s the God who listens.<\/p>\n<p>Interestingly, as he\u2019s going through the book, he\u2019s realizing that he can\u2019t be either\/or; right? You cannot just want the God of the Law; because if that\u2019s all you have, then you will become a punishing person: a person who wants justice, at all costs, and has no love. And then, of course, if you only want the God, who listens\u2014then, absolutely, you want love\u2014but you want it without standards; you want it without expectation; and you want it without obligation. That would, also, not be a proper way of mercy; you have to have both.<\/p>\n<p>You have to hold both in your hands, somehow: a God who speaks and a God who listens. You look around the world, and you look around at different religions: that\u2019s pretty hard to come by. There\u2019s a lot of gods who speak and a lot of gods who listen only. He starts to see, as the book goes on, that Jesus is a God who speaks and a God who listens. He, specifically, came down to listen; right? At the same time, to declare a very particular and important standard.<\/p>\n<p>Going back to Tim Keller, that\u2019s pretty much my paraphrasing of him. [Laughter] He talks about that a lot, too, right? You cannot just be\u2014justice, without mercy, is cruel; mercy, without justice, is lawlessness\u2014as a young person, that would be the early seeds of me making that choice for myself; I knew where everybody else stood.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: In some ways, as I think of your mom\u2014again, never meeting her\u2014she revealed a God who speaks and listens.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014to you.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You sort of saw it\u2014she incarnated it, in a sense; she\u2019s not God, of course\u2014but I thought, \u201cJesus did that\u201d; because when you finally get to Him, and He says, \u201cHey, Phillip, if you\u2019ve seen Me, you\u2019ve seen the Father,\u201d\u2014you get both\u2014you get the Old Testament wrapped up in grace and love. You\u2019re like, \u201cWow!\u201d I think your mom modeled that, as well. It had to be so compelling: \u201cWho wouldn\u2019t want to follow that God that my mom is making known?\u201d\u2014through her incarnation of Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I keep having the picture of you guys coming back on a bus\u2014imagining her packing up lunches, and taking that eraser and erasing all of those workbooks\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You would do that.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014so that you can do that. That\u2019s what moms do. That\u2019s what we do\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s what moms do.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014when we love our kids.<\/p>\n<p>I just want to remind us, as moms: \u201cThere\u2019s never a time Jesus hasn\u2019t seen you, hasn\u2019t been wanting to talk to you. [He] loves you and will care for you. No matter where you are in the world, He loves you and sees you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Daniel, thanks!<\/p>\n<p>Daniel: Thank you! Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: That is so true. I really appreciate Ann\u2019s perspective and reminder: \u201cJesus sees you. In all those mundane moments of life, the Savior of the world sees you, values you, and loves you more than you can imagine.\u201d It\u2019s really important to remember that\u2014when things are kind of chaotic, and crazy, and also, kind of boring\u2014the Lord sees you. He knows you; He values you; He appreciates the contributions that you make to your own family by sacrificing yourself, your time, your energy in order that your family might flourish.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Shelby Abbott; and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson, with Daniel Nayeri, on FamilyLife Today. His story is compelling, isn\u2019t it? Well, you can read more about it, and learn more about what God did from this little refugee from Iran to Oklahoma in the memoir that he wrote called Everything Sad Is Untrue. You can get your copy, right now, by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can find the link in the show notes. Or feel free to give us a call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy. Again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, stories like these come to us because of the partnership of people, just like you, who donate and make the ministry of FamilyLife Today possible. All this month, we are looking to raise an additional $250,000 in new funds by the end of August. We\u2019d love it if you would hop in with us and become a part of the solution, here, at FamilyLife. It\u2019s easy to do; all you have to do is go online to FamilyLifeToday.com to make your donation. Or give us a call at 800-358-6329. You can also drop a donation in the mail if you\u2019d like; our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832.<\/p>\n<p>Now, coming up tomorrow, Daniel Nayeri is back to talk about his journey to fatherhood, the challenges of raising a child, and the influence of Tim Keller in his life. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow; we hope you\u2019ll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. 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