{"id":284427,"date":"2024-07-25T08:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-07-25T08:32:21","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/purposefooled-kelly-jimmy-needham\/"},"modified":"2025-06-10T17:10:11","modified_gmt":"2025-06-10T21:10:11","slug":"purposefooled-kelly-jimmy-needham","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/purposefooled-kelly-jimmy-needham\/","title":{"rendered":"Purposefooled: Kelly &#038; Jimmy Needham"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Exhausted from chasing dreams? Striving to be extraordinary? Kelly and Jimmy Needham have good news for your ordinary days.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Exhausted from chasing dreams? Striving to be extraordinary? Kelly and Jimmy Needham have good news for your ordinary days.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280865,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/72c15e30-6409-4e67-9a31-b1a8011480d3\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:48","filesize":"26.40M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-07-25 08:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[2721],"podcast_series":[8779],"cwp_profile":[3631,3632],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-284427","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-finding-purpose-in-life","podcast_series-purposefooled-kelly-jimmy-needham","cwp_profile-jimmy-needham","cwp_profile-kelly-needham","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/284427\/purposefooled-kelly-jimmy-needham","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/284427\/purposefooled-kelly-jimmy-needham","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"hBIXiExbV4\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/purposefooled-kelly-jimmy-needham\/\">Purposefooled: Kelly &#038; Jimmy Needham<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/purposefooled-kelly-jimmy-needham\/embed\/#?secret=hBIXiExbV4\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Purposefooled: Kelly &#038; Jimmy Needham&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"hBIXiExbV4\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["72c15e30-6409-4e67-9a31-b1a8011480d3"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/72c15e30-6409-4e67-9a31-b1a8011480d3\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:28:48"],"filesize":["26.40M"],"_thumbnail_id":["280865"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li>Connect with Kelly &amp; Jimmy Needham and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.jimmyandkelly.com\/\">jimmyandkelly.com<\/a>. You can also find Kelly's book, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.jimmyandkelly.com\/friendish\">Friendish<\/a>, there as well as other resources. Find Jimmy on social media \"<a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jimmyneedham\/\">@jimmyneedham<\/a>\" and Kelly \"<a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/kellyneedham\/\">@kellyneedham<\/a>\".<\/li>\n<li>Wanna hear more episodes by Kelly Needham, <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/kelly-needham\/\">listen here<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>This week, for a donation of any size, we'll send you <a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/july-2024\/purposefooled\/?cru_source=FLTD24&amp;cru_medium=Icare&amp;cru_campaign=July2024\">Purposefooled: Why Chasing Your Dreams, Finding Your Calling<\/a>, as our way of saying a huge \"\"Thank you!\"\" for partnering with us toward stronger families around the world.<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"transcript_content":["<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>Purposefooled<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Kelly and Jimmy Needham<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Purposefooled (Day 1 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:July 25, 2024<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: I\u2019m very careful to put anything on myself as an identity marker besides the very narrow lane of: \u201cI am a child of God.\u201d I feel very hesitant to attach anything else to that\u2014mother, wife, author, neighbor, because all of that can go away.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This is FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: When we first got married,\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh! We\u2019re going back there?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I did not know you were starting there. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was so excited because we were going to change the world together: \u201cWe\u2019re going to follow Jesus. We\u2019re not sure what this looks like, or where He\u2019s going to call us, but we\u2019re going to follow.\u201d I felt like my life had so much purpose as I was following Him.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Me, too.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And then, I remember getting to a point\u2014you probably remember hearing this over and over, [where] we had three boys, five years old and under. I had this mantra in my head. Instead of being filled with this purpose, I started saying, \u201cI have no life. [Laughter] I have no life.\u201d Do you remember that?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, yes. I heard it every day. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And I think what\u2019s happened now\u2014I see this happening with a generation of people\u2014is that they have this purpose, and they feel like, \u201cOh, my purpose is going to be this grand, extravagant, life-changing\u2026\u201d They\u2019re going to be on this platform that\u2019s so big. I get a little frustrated by that, at times, because I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhat happened to: \u2018Let\u2019s follow Him wherever He has us go?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So, we\u2019re going to talk about purpose today. [Laughter] We have the Needhams in the studio. You already heard their voices over there. [Laughter] Jimmy and Kelly are with us.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Tell us what you guys do (besides parent your five children).<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Well, that\u2019s about 90 percent of my life. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: It is about 90 percent, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: So\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014I mean, you have a one-year-old up to thirteen.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right! Yes, so we are in the training obedience stage of that 18-month early tantrums, all the way to 13-year-old tantrums\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: \u2014tantrums. Yes, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014of: \u201cI don\u2019t want to wear\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: It\u2019s tantrums all around, basically. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014\u201cI don\u2019t want to wear my helmet on the way to school.\u201d \u201cSorry, on your bike by the road\u2014no! We are going to do that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It\u2019s a wide spread.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And two of those kids are adopted?<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, that\u2019s right\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: \u2014from India.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And you\u2019ve got a podcast.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: We do! Yes. We have a studio in our little upstairs room. We love doing that together. It\u2019s been so fun. For a couple of years, we\u2019ve been doing that.<\/p>\n<p>And then, on the side, while the kids are at school, I\u2019m trying to find little ways to write, here or there, in seasons, different seasons. And then, Jimmy is a pastor at our church.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, pastoring now.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: How many years did you travel and tour in New Jersey?<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: I first got signed to a label when I was 19 or 20. And then, I kind of spent all of my 20s, and my early 30s, touring, doing that; making records.<\/p>\n<p>And then, right around 30 or 31, I started to roll off the road life and started plugging more into the local church (the church where we were members). I came on staff and started doing that there. I still write music and do that sort of thing, but I would say the lion\u2019s share of my time has been pastoring, preaching, leading worship; those types of things.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, talk a little bit about Purposefooled. Did you have the same experience that Ann was talking about, as a mom, like losing your purpose or direction?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes! Actually, surprisingly, I feel like that moment happened for me before kids.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Ooh.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Really, when Jimmy music career took off, it really challenged me. It exposed those holes in my understanding of what makes life meaningful, what makes my activities meaningful, really early. We were 20 when we got married. We were in college together, expecting to have fairly \u201cnormal\u201d jobs. And then, while we were engaged, he signs a record deal. We\u2019re on the road; we get married; we\u2019re traveling every weekend.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: He\u2019s doing concerts, signing autographs, and doing TV shows. And I\u2019m just along for the ride, using a lot of my\u2014I have a business degree\u2014so, I naturally fell into this role of merchandise management, and road manager, and general manager, and do the website; all the things.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014Here I am, at these concerts. My husband\u2019s preaching the gospel from stage. People are telling me, every day, \u201cHis music has changed my life!\u201d All I\u2019m feeling is: \u201cI want to do ministry, too. And I\u2019m stuck here\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cWhat am I doing?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014\u201con the bench; on the sidelines,\u201d doing the nitty gritty that has to get done, but it really was hard for me. I felt very unsatisfied in that space.<\/p>\n<p>I felt it, again, in motherhood when I had two kids in diapers.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It was the same experience: sending him off on these tours and all this, and I\u2019m home with kids.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cBye! Have fun being famous while I\u2019m wiping bottoms.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, yes. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Exactly! I had one moment where you were at a photo shoot for your album, Clear the Stage. I literally have a baby on one shoulder. I\u2019m in the same clothes I slept in, and it\u2019s 3 pm. [Laughter] I think I have spit-up [on me]; the house is a mess, and I\u2019m at home, texting him back. I remember getting on my knees in the bedroom: \u201cLord, help me excited for him and be happy. I\u2019m just mad right now.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Did you guys ever talk about it?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Oh, yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Was that like a conflict in your marriage? Did it come out?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Absolutely, it was a conflict.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Jimmy, what did it make you feel? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, well, I don\u2019t know. I think it took a little while for you to even be able to identify the feeling.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: The feelings almost came first.<\/p>\n<p>Ann and Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: And then, the logic behind them came second.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: I think, early on in our marriage, it was more just like: \u201cOh, man! We\u2019re fighting a lot,\u201d or \u201cThere\u2019s conflict,\u201d or \u201cMy wife isn\u2019t happy.\u201d Neither of us kind of knew why. Would you say that\u2019s true?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Eventually\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014I did not have words for any of that. I was mad at my circumstances; that\u2019s really what was happening. And I was mad at the Lord, ultimately, for that, but I was taking it out on Jimmy. I think that wrestling, for me\u2014one of the biggest transformations that happened, as I started taking those things to the Lord\u2014is realizing, \u201cMy deep ache is really that my life, my activity, and my work would be meaningful. It\u2019s hard for it to feel meaningful when all I\u2019m doing all day is changing diapers, and my husband is \u2018changing the world,\u2019 sharing the gospel,\u201d right?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: There\u2019s this hunger for my work to matter. I think one thing I felt really comforted by the Lord, through His Word in, is that that longing is good; that\u2019s actually a good longing, that I want my life to matter. That I want to do things that are meaningful is a good, godly longing. Jesus doesn\u2019t despise it, and I\u2019m actually made for something great.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: But it\u2019s actually bigger than my work; it\u2019s bigger than motherhood. I think that even helped me, in motherhood, to think: \u201cMotherhood isn\u2019t enough. No, it\u2019s not.\u201d And if I were still on the road with my husband, that still wouldn\u2019t be enough either. I\u2019m actually made for something even more than that. Feeling a validation to those deep longings was what began to change things and actually grant me the contentment I knew that I needed to stay in the seasons that God had put me in.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Take us back there. How did that come about? Because I think, as a listener, and especially as a mom\u2014where you\u2019re just feeling, \u201cWhat is my purpose?\u201d\u2014everyone has that thought. How did you get to that point of\u2014did you come to a crisis point?<\/p>\n<p>One of the things you just slipped in there [is] \u201c\u2026as I spent time with God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Sometimes, it\u2019s easy for us to get resentful of our role and where we are in life, so we start pulling away, thinking that our happiness is going to come through being purposeful.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right: doing.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, doing! That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right. We want to do for God. That\u2019s what I was seeing in myself: \u201cI want to do. Doing is what makes life meaningful.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But it\u2019s actually a noun that makes life meaningful. The person of God is what makes life meaningful. One of the first places that I saw this, I was reading a book about Corrie ten Boom. I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s a book her assistant wrote about the later years of her life. Corrie suffered a stroke in the last four years of her life. Her assistant is writing about watching this experience.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What\u2019s the book called? Do you know?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes, it\u2019s called Safer than a Known Way.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019d like to read that.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Safer than a Known Way; it\u2019s wonderful.<\/p>\n<p>She watches Corrie go from this very busy, active-in-ministry woman in the later years of her life, in her 70s or 80s, to suffering a stroke and lying in bed, receiving care, and learning to communicate through blinking and all that; she watched her do it with grace. She says something in the book like this: \u201cI realized in that moment that it was much more difficult for a very gifted woman like Corrie to do nothing when God\u2019s will required it than to do much.\u201d I was not the same after I read that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Really?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: I was not.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It just hit you.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Well, I realized: \u201cIf God asked me to do nothing, that would be really hard for me,\u201d\u2014really hard for me. I want to do something! I want to be the active agent in the world change. And what if, through my circumstances, God says, \u201cNo. Actually, what I want you to do, to glorify Me, is to be still, to do nothing, to just receive.\u201d I realized, \u201cI think I have some misunderstandings.\u201d Through that book\u2014and then, I had two kids in diapers and Jimmy\u2019s on the road\u2014I think I felt this confidence to come to God and say, \u201cAlright, help me understand what I\u2019m missing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I remember reading [about] the apostles coming up to Jesus a couple of times, asking, \u201cWho\u2019s the greatest? Who\u2019s the greatest in the kingdom? [Laughter] Come on, Jesus, let us know. I know there\u2019s a ladder here!\u201d You know, \u201cWho\u2019s at the top?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I remember reading those moments\u2014those conversations the disciples had with Jesus\u2014and having this realization that He didn\u2019t rebuke the question. He gave them a very direct, clear answer, which, to me, honors the question. He doesn\u2019t look at them and say, \u201cYou fools! How much longer will I be on this\u2026\u201d He has moments like that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: He doesn\u2019t. He says, \u201cThere are people who are great in the kingdom,\u201d\u2014He even says that\u2014[Matthew 11:11]: \u201c\u2026of men born of women, John the Baptist is the greatest. But the least of these are even greater.\u201d So, Jesus has an understanding of greatness, and He\u2019s trying to pass it on to them. He loves the desire for greatness when it\u2019s directed\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014that helps, to know that my desire isn\u2019t wrong.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right; my desire\u2019s not wrong.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That was so affirming to me; and then, it gave me the courage to go that whole path down with Jesus, to say, \u201cAlright, if that\u2019s true\u2014if You care about my desire for greatness, You want me to be great, and I\u2019m misdirected in trying to actualize that, then will You show me the real path?\u201d And, \u201cI\u2019m going to study that: \u2018What does Jesus have to say about greatness?\u2019\u201d I just took to the Word: \u201cWhat does He have to say about greatness?\u201d I realized, as I was reading, that He was actually not only teaching me about greatness through the Word, but in my life situation. With two babies and learning to serve them, He was giving me a training ground to actually learn greatness in experience as well.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It just changed my experience of motherhood even, because even my motherhood now became not just about my kids and learning to be the best mom I could [be], but learning: \u201cWhat is kingdom greatness to my Lord?\u201d It became about Jesus. It elevated me, above my situation and my circumstances, to the right person of God, which is where I think that desire for greatness is actually actualized; in the very person of God.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: When I surrendered everything to Jesus, I was 18 years old. I said to Him, \u201cLord, I\u2019ll do anything. I\u2019ll go anywhere.\u201d I felt\u2014in my spirit, I felt\u2014this: \u201cOh, Ann, I have great things in store for you!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But because, back then, there were no famous Christians.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Maybe Billy Graham. So, when I heard, \u201cgreatness,\u201d I wasn\u2019t thinking of a platform; I wasn\u2019t thinking of speaking. I was just thinking, \u201cI will be used by Him,\u201d which is all of us. But I\u2019m seeing, as I talk to younger women today, [that] when they hear \u201cgreatness,\u201d they want it to be. . .<\/p>\n<p>I said, \u201cWhat do you think? What does that look like?\u201d They\u2019ll say, \u201cI can see myself speaking to millions.\u201d And the next person\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014I can\u2019t tell you how many times Ann has come home from an appointment with somebody in our church. \u201cWell, how did it go?\u201d \u201cWell, they want a platform. They want to be a social media influencer.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cThey think we do that.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThat\u2019s what they want to do?\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s their\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014she says this many times, like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: \u2014that\u2019s how you make it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s their definition of greatness.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Right, and impact.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: In some ways, it\u2019s a noble desire, misdirected.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s a good way to say it.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: I think women need\u2014women and men need\u2014the validation that \u201cYour longing to be great,\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014your dreams.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014\"to make an impact for the kingdom, is good.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: But it\u2019s misdirected into something that\u2019s actually not in line with what Jesus teaches about greatness, because\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014It\u2019s what Jesus did with the disciples.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: One of the first things He actually says about greatness is, He picks up a child\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave and Ann: \u2014yes\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014and He says, \u201cWhoever becomes like this child will become great in My kingdom.\u201d A child is really content at being a recipient. That\u2019s how I ended up defining it in the book. Children are just recipients. They\u2019re happy for everything to be provided for them and to be receivers of that. It\u2019s actually growing them out of that\u2014that we\u2019re trying to move them toward adulthood, out of childhood\u2014is to be contributors.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: When I think about my greatness in the kingdom: \u201cHow content am I to be utterly dependent on God in every moment of my day? To be a receiver of His strength in everything that I do?\u201d That\u2019s true greatness.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Let me ask both of you: \u201cHow do you do that? How do you sit before God and be that recipient?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, did it really change; this perspective? Because you\u2019ve still got kids; you\u2019ve still got spit-up; you still have poopy diapers.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It did?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It did. I would say in that season, when I was learning that, it was probably one of the most significant shifts of joy, and contentment, and peace, and passion for God that I\u2019d had in my adult life. So much so that you, at one point, said to me, \u201cI feel like you\u2019re having a revival or something.\u201d He was coming\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: \u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Really?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s what I was going to ask. Jimmy, did you see it?<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, there was an absolute shift. She was one way, and then, she\u2014over time, and not even a very long time; over time\u2014was not that way. The only difference in between that was some of these discoveries, these \u201cAha\u201d moments, of, \u201cIt really is about me tethering myself to a Person, not an activity, that changes things.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Kelly, how did you do that when you had these little babies? Because most of us, when we get in that stage, are like, \u201cI don\u2019t have time to read my Bible. I haven\u2019t got time to do [anything]\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You go lock yourself in the bathroom just to get a moment.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014\u201cfor myself.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Because a lot of young moms are in that situation, where they feel spent; they\u2019re giving everything they have away.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: How did you get those moments with Jesus?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: With little kids on my back. That sounds silly, but it\u2019s true! I was in the living room; they were crawling around me. One of them\u2014I have a picture of one of my kids napping on the floor\u2014she was like six months old, on a blanket, [and] there\u2019s a pile of laundry by my feet, [Laughter] and my toddler was playing in the background. And I\u2019ve got my Bible open.<\/p>\n<p>My answer to how that happened is, I was just hungry. I was really hungry for this problem to be solved. The same way that, if you\u2019re hungry, as a mom\u2014physically hungry, you\u2019ll find a way to get a snack in. Somehow, it will be on the go; it will be with your kids. Or you will find a way to get sleep if you\u2019re exhausted. My soul was hungry, and so I was eager for that.<\/p>\n<p>And then, I was realizing, too, as I\u2019m spending time with God: \u201cThis is my first commandment. Before I even get to the serving others\u2014loving your neighbor as you love yourself\u2014before I even get to loving my kids, God tells me: \u2018Priority Number One, love Me with everything you have\u2019.\u201d I feel like it gave me permission as a mom, too, to supplant my kids from priority number one in my day. Jesus [should be].<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That is hard to do!<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Many of us put our kids as number one.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: How did you do that? What does that look like?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Occasionally\u2014and I don\u2019t know who will love this\u2014but occasionally, it meant: \u201cI\u2019m going to put a show on for my kids. I\u2019m going to sit in the kitchen, and I\u2019m going to read my Bible.\u201d This is the only way, because, again, Jimmy was traveling a lot at that time. He was home every week, but there were some days in a row, where it was just me. That\u2019s what I could do. I said, \u201cAlright, you guys are going to watch a show, and I\u2019m going to sit right here and read my Bible.\u201d I didn\u2019t know how else to do it.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: It was Law and Order, wasn\u2019t it? That\u2019s what you normally put on. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right!<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, SVU. Yes. That\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Somehow, it captured their attention.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: It did. It sucked them in. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Or it was in the car: buckle them in, go for a drive; get a coffee. I\u2019m like, \u201cYou guys are okay back there.\u201d I\u2019m just reading. They wanted to be with me, so I\u2019m going to let them be with me, but I need to not be chasing them around the house.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Was there any resentment that Jimmy\u2019s gone as much as he was?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: At first.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Because Ann had that when I would travel a lot. I\u2019m not saying\u2014we\u2019re so much less than you guys\u2014you probably had no struggles. We struggled with that.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: No, we struggled a lot.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I would even come home, and she would look at me like, \u201cSeriously, you\u2019ve got to leave again in two days?\u201d \u201cAh, yes.\u201d Some of it was [that] I was committing myself to too many things I shouldn\u2019t have, but that brought some tension in our marriage. Did you have any of that?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Oh, yes. [Laugher]<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: For a lot the time, we were actually\u2014especially, in the early years, we were\u2014 traveling together, which that actually exacerbated it more than, in my opinion, more than being apart. I think there were hard things about me being away, for sure, but my memory was [that] the most difficult times were when we were traveling together.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Really?<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Because now, as Kelly\u2019s especially being confronted\u2014I mean, you\u2019re seeing the thing that\u2019s sort of poking you.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: He walks on, and the lights pop on. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: What was subtly being communicated to me in those early years of travel is that: \u201cI\u2019m important because I\u2019m married to Jimmy.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s your identity, as his wife.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes, yes. That\u2019s the only category people had for me.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It wasn\u2019t wrong that that\u2019s how people connected with me, but they were impacted by Jimmy. That\u2019s why they were at the concert; that\u2019s the reason they were there. They meet me, and the only connection they have is: \u201cYou\u2019re married to this person, who has transformed my life through his music.\u201d I\u2019m hearing that all the time.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It took a lot of effort to, then, think, \u201cHold on! What is my identity?\u201d Because I am a wife\u2014and I am married to a very godly man, whom I love very dearly, and who I am so thrilled about what God is doing in him\u2014but I had to work through that identity piece for myself. It was challenging. It was really challenging in those early years. And then, even off the road, it\u2019s the same thing.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: How do you understand identity now? That\u2019s a big word.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It is a big word.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And it\u2019s big theology to understand who we are in Christ.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And this ties into it so closely. How do you talk about it now?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: I\u2019m very careful to put anything on myself as an identity marker besides the very narrow lane of: \u201cI am a child of God.\u201d I feel very hesitant to attach anything else to that\u2014mother, wife, author, neighbor\u2014because all of that can go away. I think even our travels to other parts of the world\u2014to India, we have two sons from India\u2014thinking:<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIf you can\u2019t universally apply this to believers around the world,\u201d or \u201cIf I can\u2019t have this identity in old age,\u201d or \u201cIf God strips things from me in sickness\u2014\u201d We\u2019ve watched mentors go through very serious [illnesses], who were active in ministry, to now, just receiving care\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: \u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u201cCan this identity stay with me through all of that?\u201d If it can, then I\u2019m good with it. I\u2019m a creature, that\u2019s part of my identity; I\u2019m a human being, that\u2019s a part of my identity; but then, in Christ, I am a child of the living God. That\u2019s who I am, and that has to be enough meaning for me, and weight for me, to hold my whole identity. If it isn\u2019t, then I\u2019ve got work to do.<\/p>\n<p>Everything else, though, I actually feel like I\u2019m better as a wife, as a mom, as a neighbor, as a friend, when those things aren\u2019t identity markers for me. I now can serve those people. That\u2019s even what I noticed in our marriage. As soon as I was able to separate a little bit: \u201cI\u2019m not just a wife. God, I am Your child. You gave me marriage, and You can take it away one day.\u201d Okay, now that I understand that, I can see Jimmy not just as my husband, but as my brother in Christ. I can think about how I can serve him instead of how I can use him to make me feel better as a wife.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, and it\u2019s not that we\u2019re saying, \u201cYou can\u2019t say, \u2018I\u2019m a Bible teacher,\u2019 or \u2018I\u2019m a mother,\u2019 and things like that. I think we need to appreciate the temporary nature of those titles.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly and Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Because if you do tattoo that on yourself permanently and then, like one of our mentors, who is one of the best Bible teachers we know, you get MS, and now, you can\u2019t do anything, and your family is just taking care of you: have you lost your sense of who you are, because \u201cWell, God has made me a Bible teacher?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Maybe a better way to talk about it is: \u201cGod has made me a Bible teacher in this season until He changes the plans. But the one fixed given\u2014the one thing that\u2019s not changing\u2014is that I am His son.\u201d So, I think if we can appreciate that all those other identity markers are really temporal, but the one that sticks, that\u2019s the one we need to live and die by. I think that sorts so many things out.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think this is just rich, even as a listener, for you to ask that question: \u201cWhat is my identity? Who am I?\u201d But then, that other question, too: \u201cWhat\u2019s your purpose?\u201d I feel like I just can\u2019t get it out of my head: \u201cYour purpose is a Person. It\u2019s Jesus.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, ask yourself: \u201cIs that yours?\u201d or \u201cWhere are you finding your identity?\u201d or \u201cWhere are you trying to get your purpose?\u201d Because, as you said, if it\u2019s in what I\u2019m doing, that\u2019s always shifting. It\u2019s always changing.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, it\u2019s interesting: Ann, when she would lead the Lions\u2019 wives\u2019 Bible study, she would tell me this\u2014I would lead it once a season, by the way; they\u2019d have me come in; she didn\u2019t even come, and have a husband\u2014anyway, she said [she] would often ask them every season: \u201cI want you to tell me who you are.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cYou can\u2019t mention who your husband is, what you do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cYou can\u2019t mention your occupation. Just tell me who you are.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201c[You can\u2019t mention] where you went to college, any of your training, or even your job,\u201d because these are incredibly sharp, beautiful, gifted women. When I asked that question\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: \u2014crickets.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014silence!<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Because they had no idea; but if one of them\u2014there was one woman one year\u2014she said, \u201cI am a child of the living God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was like, \u201cOh, she\u2019s got it! She\u2019s got it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: That\u2019s it. That\u2019s exactly right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It would be a great question to ask our kids, too.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: It\u2019s so important to know where our identity rests: \u201cWho are you? Who are you?\u201d That\u2019s a really good question\u2014maybe, a great question\u2014to ask around the dinner table tonight when you\u2019re having a meal with your family. But then, make some qualifications with your spouse and your kids, and get to the heart of who they believe they are. Then, like we were just hearing, point them to Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jimmy and Kelly Needham on FamilyLife Today. Kelly has written a book called Purposefooled: Why Chasing Your Dreams, Finding Your Calling, and Reaching for Greatness Will Never Be Enough. Wow! What a title! [It\u2019s] provocative and just one that, I think, so many of us need to dwell on in this culture that champions, perhaps, the wrong thing.<\/p>\n<p>This book is going to be our gift to you when you give to the ministry of FamilyLife\u00ae. You can get your copy right now with any donation that you make. Just go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the \u201cDonate Now\u201d button at the top of the page. Or you can give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d And feel free to drop us a donation in the mail if you\u2019d like, too. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832.<\/p>\n<p>It's a fantastic conversation today, and I\u2019m really looking forward to it continuing tomorrow. Jimmy and Kelly Needham are going to be back with the Wilsons to talk about overcoming insecurity and finding true fulfillment. That\u2019s tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs? Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. 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from chasing dreams? Striving to be extraordinary? Kelly and Jimmy Needham have good news for your ordinary days.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Connect with Kelly &amp; Jimmy Needham and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.jimmyandkelly.com\/\">jimmyandkelly.com<\/a>. You can also find Kelly's book, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.jimmyandkelly.com\/friendish\">Friendish<\/a>, there as well as other resources. Find Jimmy on social media \"<a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jimmyneedham\/\">@jimmyneedham<\/a>\" and Kelly \"<a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/kellyneedham\/\">@kellyneedham<\/a>\".<\/li>\n<li>Wanna hear more episodes by Kelly Needham, <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/kelly-needham\/\">listen here<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>This week, for a donation of any size, we'll send you <a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/july-2024\/purposefooled\/?cru_source=FLTD24&amp;cru_medium=Icare&amp;cru_campaign=July2024\">Purposefooled: Why Chasing Your Dreams, Finding Your Calling<\/a>, as our way of saying a huge \"\"Thank you!\"\" for partnering with us toward stronger families around the world.<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-07-25.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>Purposefooled<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Kelly and Jimmy Needham<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Purposefooled (Day 1 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:July 25, 2024<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: I\u2019m very careful to put anything on myself as an identity marker besides the very narrow lane of: \u201cI am a child of God.\u201d I feel very hesitant to attach anything else to that\u2014mother, wife, author, neighbor, because all of that can go away.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This is FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: When we first got married,\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh! We\u2019re going back there?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I did not know you were starting there. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was so excited because we were going to change the world together: \u201cWe\u2019re going to follow Jesus. We\u2019re not sure what this looks like, or where He\u2019s going to call us, but we\u2019re going to follow.\u201d I felt like my life had so much purpose as I was following Him.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Me, too.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And then, I remember getting to a point\u2014you probably remember hearing this over and over, [where] we had three boys, five years old and under. I had this mantra in my head. Instead of being filled with this purpose, I started saying, \u201cI have no life. [Laughter] I have no life.\u201d Do you remember that?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, yes. I heard it every day. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And I think what\u2019s happened now\u2014I see this happening with a generation of people\u2014is that they have this purpose, and they feel like, \u201cOh, my purpose is going to be this grand, extravagant, life-changing\u2026\u201d They\u2019re going to be on this platform that\u2019s so big. I get a little frustrated by that, at times, because I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhat happened to: \u2018Let\u2019s follow Him wherever He has us go?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So, we\u2019re going to talk about purpose today. [Laughter] We have the Needhams in the studio. You already heard their voices over there. [Laughter] Jimmy and Kelly are with us.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Tell us what you guys do (besides parent your five children).<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Well, that\u2019s about 90 percent of my life. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: It is about 90 percent, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: So\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014I mean, you have a one-year-old up to thirteen.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right! Yes, so we are in the training obedience stage of that 18-month early tantrums, all the way to 13-year-old tantrums\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: \u2014tantrums. Yes, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014of: \u201cI don\u2019t want to wear\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: It\u2019s tantrums all around, basically. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014\u201cI don\u2019t want to wear my helmet on the way to school.\u201d \u201cSorry, on your bike by the road\u2014no! We are going to do that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It\u2019s a wide spread.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And two of those kids are adopted?<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, that\u2019s right\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: \u2014from India.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And you\u2019ve got a podcast.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: We do! Yes. We have a studio in our little upstairs room. We love doing that together. It\u2019s been so fun. For a couple of years, we\u2019ve been doing that.<\/p>\n<p>And then, on the side, while the kids are at school, I\u2019m trying to find little ways to write, here or there, in seasons, different seasons. And then, Jimmy is a pastor at our church.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, pastoring now.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: How many years did you travel and tour in New Jersey?<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: I first got signed to a label when I was 19 or 20. And then, I kind of spent all of my 20s, and my early 30s, touring, doing that; making records.<\/p>\n<p>And then, right around 30 or 31, I started to roll off the road life and started plugging more into the local church (the church where we were members). I came on staff and started doing that there. I still write music and do that sort of thing, but I would say the lion\u2019s share of my time has been pastoring, preaching, leading worship; those types of things.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, talk a little bit about Purposefooled. Did you have the same experience that Ann was talking about, as a mom, like losing your purpose or direction?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes! Actually, surprisingly, I feel like that moment happened for me before kids.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Ooh.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Really, when Jimmy music career took off, it really challenged me. It exposed those holes in my understanding of what makes life meaningful, what makes my activities meaningful, really early. We were 20 when we got married. We were in college together, expecting to have fairly \u201cnormal\u201d jobs. And then, while we were engaged, he signs a record deal. We\u2019re on the road; we get married; we\u2019re traveling every weekend.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: He\u2019s doing concerts, signing autographs, and doing TV shows. And I\u2019m just along for the ride, using a lot of my\u2014I have a business degree\u2014so, I naturally fell into this role of merchandise management, and road manager, and general manager, and do the website; all the things.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014Here I am, at these concerts. My husband\u2019s preaching the gospel from stage. People are telling me, every day, \u201cHis music has changed my life!\u201d All I\u2019m feeling is: \u201cI want to do ministry, too. And I\u2019m stuck here\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cWhat am I doing?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014\u201con the bench; on the sidelines,\u201d doing the nitty gritty that has to get done, but it really was hard for me. I felt very unsatisfied in that space.<\/p>\n<p>I felt it, again, in motherhood when I had two kids in diapers.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It was the same experience: sending him off on these tours and all this, and I\u2019m home with kids.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cBye! Have fun being famous while I\u2019m wiping bottoms.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, yes. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Exactly! I had one moment where you were at a photo shoot for your album, Clear the Stage. I literally have a baby on one shoulder. I\u2019m in the same clothes I slept in, and it\u2019s 3 pm. [Laughter] I think I have spit-up [on me]; the house is a mess, and I\u2019m at home, texting him back. I remember getting on my knees in the bedroom: \u201cLord, help me excited for him and be happy. I\u2019m just mad right now.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Did you guys ever talk about it?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Oh, yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Was that like a conflict in your marriage? Did it come out?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Absolutely, it was a conflict.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Jimmy, what did it make you feel? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, well, I don\u2019t know. I think it took a little while for you to even be able to identify the feeling.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: The feelings almost came first.<\/p>\n<p>Ann and Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: And then, the logic behind them came second.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: I think, early on in our marriage, it was more just like: \u201cOh, man! We\u2019re fighting a lot,\u201d or \u201cThere\u2019s conflict,\u201d or \u201cMy wife isn\u2019t happy.\u201d Neither of us kind of knew why. Would you say that\u2019s true?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Eventually\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014I did not have words for any of that. I was mad at my circumstances; that\u2019s really what was happening. And I was mad at the Lord, ultimately, for that, but I was taking it out on Jimmy. I think that wrestling, for me\u2014one of the biggest transformations that happened, as I started taking those things to the Lord\u2014is realizing, \u201cMy deep ache is really that my life, my activity, and my work would be meaningful. It\u2019s hard for it to feel meaningful when all I\u2019m doing all day is changing diapers, and my husband is \u2018changing the world,\u2019 sharing the gospel,\u201d right?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: There\u2019s this hunger for my work to matter. I think one thing I felt really comforted by the Lord, through His Word in, is that that longing is good; that\u2019s actually a good longing, that I want my life to matter. That I want to do things that are meaningful is a good, godly longing. Jesus doesn\u2019t despise it, and I\u2019m actually made for something great.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: But it\u2019s actually bigger than my work; it\u2019s bigger than motherhood. I think that even helped me, in motherhood, to think: \u201cMotherhood isn\u2019t enough. No, it\u2019s not.\u201d And if I were still on the road with my husband, that still wouldn\u2019t be enough either. I\u2019m actually made for something even more than that. Feeling a validation to those deep longings was what began to change things and actually grant me the contentment I knew that I needed to stay in the seasons that God had put me in.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Take us back there. How did that come about? Because I think, as a listener, and especially as a mom\u2014where you\u2019re just feeling, \u201cWhat is my purpose?\u201d\u2014everyone has that thought. How did you get to that point of\u2014did you come to a crisis point?<\/p>\n<p>One of the things you just slipped in there [is] \u201c\u2026as I spent time with God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Sometimes, it\u2019s easy for us to get resentful of our role and where we are in life, so we start pulling away, thinking that our happiness is going to come through being purposeful.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right: doing.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, doing! That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right. We want to do for God. That\u2019s what I was seeing in myself: \u201cI want to do. Doing is what makes life meaningful.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But it\u2019s actually a noun that makes life meaningful. The person of God is what makes life meaningful. One of the first places that I saw this, I was reading a book about Corrie ten Boom. I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s a book her assistant wrote about the later years of her life. Corrie suffered a stroke in the last four years of her life. Her assistant is writing about watching this experience.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What\u2019s the book called? Do you know?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes, it\u2019s called Safer than a Known Way.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019d like to read that.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Safer than a Known Way; it\u2019s wonderful.<\/p>\n<p>She watches Corrie go from this very busy, active-in-ministry woman in the later years of her life, in her 70s or 80s, to suffering a stroke and lying in bed, receiving care, and learning to communicate through blinking and all that; she watched her do it with grace. She says something in the book like this: \u201cI realized in that moment that it was much more difficult for a very gifted woman like Corrie to do nothing when God\u2019s will required it than to do much.\u201d I was not the same after I read that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Really?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: I was not.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It just hit you.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Well, I realized: \u201cIf God asked me to do nothing, that would be really hard for me,\u201d\u2014really hard for me. I want to do something! I want to be the active agent in the world change. And what if, through my circumstances, God says, \u201cNo. Actually, what I want you to do, to glorify Me, is to be still, to do nothing, to just receive.\u201d I realized, \u201cI think I have some misunderstandings.\u201d Through that book\u2014and then, I had two kids in diapers and Jimmy\u2019s on the road\u2014I think I felt this confidence to come to God and say, \u201cAlright, help me understand what I\u2019m missing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I remember reading [about] the apostles coming up to Jesus a couple of times, asking, \u201cWho\u2019s the greatest? Who\u2019s the greatest in the kingdom? [Laughter] Come on, Jesus, let us know. I know there\u2019s a ladder here!\u201d You know, \u201cWho\u2019s at the top?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I remember reading those moments\u2014those conversations the disciples had with Jesus\u2014and having this realization that He didn\u2019t rebuke the question. He gave them a very direct, clear answer, which, to me, honors the question. He doesn\u2019t look at them and say, \u201cYou fools! How much longer will I be on this\u2026\u201d He has moments like that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: He doesn\u2019t. He says, \u201cThere are people who are great in the kingdom,\u201d\u2014He even says that\u2014[Matthew 11:11]: \u201c\u2026of men born of women, John the Baptist is the greatest. But the least of these are even greater.\u201d So, Jesus has an understanding of greatness, and He\u2019s trying to pass it on to them. He loves the desire for greatness when it\u2019s directed\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014that helps, to know that my desire isn\u2019t wrong.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right; my desire\u2019s not wrong.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That was so affirming to me; and then, it gave me the courage to go that whole path down with Jesus, to say, \u201cAlright, if that\u2019s true\u2014if You care about my desire for greatness, You want me to be great, and I\u2019m misdirected in trying to actualize that, then will You show me the real path?\u201d And, \u201cI\u2019m going to study that: \u2018What does Jesus have to say about greatness?\u2019\u201d I just took to the Word: \u201cWhat does He have to say about greatness?\u201d I realized, as I was reading, that He was actually not only teaching me about greatness through the Word, but in my life situation. With two babies and learning to serve them, He was giving me a training ground to actually learn greatness in experience as well.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It just changed my experience of motherhood even, because even my motherhood now became not just about my kids and learning to be the best mom I could [be], but learning: \u201cWhat is kingdom greatness to my Lord?\u201d It became about Jesus. It elevated me, above my situation and my circumstances, to the right person of God, which is where I think that desire for greatness is actually actualized; in the very person of God.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: When I surrendered everything to Jesus, I was 18 years old. I said to Him, \u201cLord, I\u2019ll do anything. I\u2019ll go anywhere.\u201d I felt\u2014in my spirit, I felt\u2014this: \u201cOh, Ann, I have great things in store for you!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But because, back then, there were no famous Christians.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Maybe Billy Graham. So, when I heard, \u201cgreatness,\u201d I wasn\u2019t thinking of a platform; I wasn\u2019t thinking of speaking. I was just thinking, \u201cI will be used by Him,\u201d which is all of us. But I\u2019m seeing, as I talk to younger women today, [that] when they hear \u201cgreatness,\u201d they want it to be. . .<\/p>\n<p>I said, \u201cWhat do you think? What does that look like?\u201d They\u2019ll say, \u201cI can see myself speaking to millions.\u201d And the next person\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014I can\u2019t tell you how many times Ann has come home from an appointment with somebody in our church. \u201cWell, how did it go?\u201d \u201cWell, they want a platform. They want to be a social media influencer.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cThey think we do that.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThat\u2019s what they want to do?\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s their\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014she says this many times, like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: \u2014that\u2019s how you make it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s their definition of greatness.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Right, and impact.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: In some ways, it\u2019s a noble desire, misdirected.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s a good way to say it.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: I think women need\u2014women and men need\u2014the validation that \u201cYour longing to be great,\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014your dreams.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014\"to make an impact for the kingdom, is good.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: But it\u2019s misdirected into something that\u2019s actually not in line with what Jesus teaches about greatness, because\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014It\u2019s what Jesus did with the disciples.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: One of the first things He actually says about greatness is, He picks up a child\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave and Ann: \u2014yes\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u2014and He says, \u201cWhoever becomes like this child will become great in My kingdom.\u201d A child is really content at being a recipient. That\u2019s how I ended up defining it in the book. Children are just recipients. They\u2019re happy for everything to be provided for them and to be receivers of that. It\u2019s actually growing them out of that\u2014that we\u2019re trying to move them toward adulthood, out of childhood\u2014is to be contributors.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: When I think about my greatness in the kingdom: \u201cHow content am I to be utterly dependent on God in every moment of my day? To be a receiver of His strength in everything that I do?\u201d That\u2019s true greatness.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Let me ask both of you: \u201cHow do you do that? How do you sit before God and be that recipient?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, did it really change; this perspective? Because you\u2019ve still got kids; you\u2019ve still got spit-up; you still have poopy diapers.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It did?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It did. I would say in that season, when I was learning that, it was probably one of the most significant shifts of joy, and contentment, and peace, and passion for God that I\u2019d had in my adult life. So much so that you, at one point, said to me, \u201cI feel like you\u2019re having a revival or something.\u201d He was coming\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: \u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Really?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s what I was going to ask. Jimmy, did you see it?<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, there was an absolute shift. She was one way, and then, she\u2014over time, and not even a very long time; over time\u2014was not that way. The only difference in between that was some of these discoveries, these \u201cAha\u201d moments, of, \u201cIt really is about me tethering myself to a Person, not an activity, that changes things.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Kelly, how did you do that when you had these little babies? Because most of us, when we get in that stage, are like, \u201cI don\u2019t have time to read my Bible. I haven\u2019t got time to do [anything]\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You go lock yourself in the bathroom just to get a moment.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014\u201cfor myself.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Because a lot of young moms are in that situation, where they feel spent; they\u2019re giving everything they have away.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: How did you get those moments with Jesus?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: With little kids on my back. That sounds silly, but it\u2019s true! I was in the living room; they were crawling around me. One of them\u2014I have a picture of one of my kids napping on the floor\u2014she was like six months old, on a blanket, [and] there\u2019s a pile of laundry by my feet, [Laughter] and my toddler was playing in the background. And I\u2019ve got my Bible open.<\/p>\n<p>My answer to how that happened is, I was just hungry. I was really hungry for this problem to be solved. The same way that, if you\u2019re hungry, as a mom\u2014physically hungry, you\u2019ll find a way to get a snack in. Somehow, it will be on the go; it will be with your kids. Or you will find a way to get sleep if you\u2019re exhausted. My soul was hungry, and so I was eager for that.<\/p>\n<p>And then, I was realizing, too, as I\u2019m spending time with God: \u201cThis is my first commandment. Before I even get to the serving others\u2014loving your neighbor as you love yourself\u2014before I even get to loving my kids, God tells me: \u2018Priority Number One, love Me with everything you have\u2019.\u201d I feel like it gave me permission as a mom, too, to supplant my kids from priority number one in my day. Jesus [should be].<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That is hard to do!<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Many of us put our kids as number one.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: How did you do that? What does that look like?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Occasionally\u2014and I don\u2019t know who will love this\u2014but occasionally, it meant: \u201cI\u2019m going to put a show on for my kids. I\u2019m going to sit in the kitchen, and I\u2019m going to read my Bible.\u201d This is the only way, because, again, Jimmy was traveling a lot at that time. He was home every week, but there were some days in a row, where it was just me. That\u2019s what I could do. I said, \u201cAlright, you guys are going to watch a show, and I\u2019m going to sit right here and read my Bible.\u201d I didn\u2019t know how else to do it.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: It was Law and Order, wasn\u2019t it? That\u2019s what you normally put on. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: That\u2019s right!<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, SVU. Yes. That\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Somehow, it captured their attention.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: It did. It sucked them in. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Or it was in the car: buckle them in, go for a drive; get a coffee. I\u2019m like, \u201cYou guys are okay back there.\u201d I\u2019m just reading. They wanted to be with me, so I\u2019m going to let them be with me, but I need to not be chasing them around the house.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Was there any resentment that Jimmy\u2019s gone as much as he was?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: At first.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Because Ann had that when I would travel a lot. I\u2019m not saying\u2014we\u2019re so much less than you guys\u2014you probably had no struggles. We struggled with that.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: No, we struggled a lot.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I would even come home, and she would look at me like, \u201cSeriously, you\u2019ve got to leave again in two days?\u201d \u201cAh, yes.\u201d Some of it was [that] I was committing myself to too many things I shouldn\u2019t have, but that brought some tension in our marriage. Did you have any of that?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Oh, yes. [Laugher]<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: For a lot the time, we were actually\u2014especially, in the early years, we were\u2014 traveling together, which that actually exacerbated it more than, in my opinion, more than being apart. I think there were hard things about me being away, for sure, but my memory was [that] the most difficult times were when we were traveling together.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Really?<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Because now, as Kelly\u2019s especially being confronted\u2014I mean, you\u2019re seeing the thing that\u2019s sort of poking you.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: He walks on, and the lights pop on. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: What was subtly being communicated to me in those early years of travel is that: \u201cI\u2019m important because I\u2019m married to Jimmy.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s your identity, as his wife.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes, yes. That\u2019s the only category people had for me.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It wasn\u2019t wrong that that\u2019s how people connected with me, but they were impacted by Jimmy. That\u2019s why they were at the concert; that\u2019s the reason they were there. They meet me, and the only connection they have is: \u201cYou\u2019re married to this person, who has transformed my life through his music.\u201d I\u2019m hearing that all the time.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It took a lot of effort to, then, think, \u201cHold on! What is my identity?\u201d Because I am a wife\u2014and I am married to a very godly man, whom I love very dearly, and who I am so thrilled about what God is doing in him\u2014but I had to work through that identity piece for myself. It was challenging. It was really challenging in those early years. And then, even off the road, it\u2019s the same thing.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: How do you understand identity now? That\u2019s a big word.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: It is a big word.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And it\u2019s big theology to understand who we are in Christ.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And this ties into it so closely. How do you talk about it now?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: I\u2019m very careful to put anything on myself as an identity marker besides the very narrow lane of: \u201cI am a child of God.\u201d I feel very hesitant to attach anything else to that\u2014mother, wife, author, neighbor\u2014because all of that can go away. I think even our travels to other parts of the world\u2014to India, we have two sons from India\u2014thinking:<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIf you can\u2019t universally apply this to believers around the world,\u201d or \u201cIf I can\u2019t have this identity in old age,\u201d or \u201cIf God strips things from me in sickness\u2014\u201d We\u2019ve watched mentors go through very serious [illnesses], who were active in ministry, to now, just receiving care\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: \u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: \u201cCan this identity stay with me through all of that?\u201d If it can, then I\u2019m good with it. I\u2019m a creature, that\u2019s part of my identity; I\u2019m a human being, that\u2019s a part of my identity; but then, in Christ, I am a child of the living God. That\u2019s who I am, and that has to be enough meaning for me, and weight for me, to hold my whole identity. If it isn\u2019t, then I\u2019ve got work to do.<\/p>\n<p>Everything else, though, I actually feel like I\u2019m better as a wife, as a mom, as a neighbor, as a friend, when those things aren\u2019t identity markers for me. I now can serve those people. That\u2019s even what I noticed in our marriage. As soon as I was able to separate a little bit: \u201cI\u2019m not just a wife. God, I am Your child. You gave me marriage, and You can take it away one day.\u201d Okay, now that I understand that, I can see Jimmy not just as my husband, but as my brother in Christ. I can think about how I can serve him instead of how I can use him to make me feel better as a wife.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes, and it\u2019s not that we\u2019re saying, \u201cYou can\u2019t say, \u2018I\u2019m a Bible teacher,\u2019 or \u2018I\u2019m a mother,\u2019 and things like that. I think we need to appreciate the temporary nature of those titles.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly and Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Because if you do tattoo that on yourself permanently and then, like one of our mentors, who is one of the best Bible teachers we know, you get MS, and now, you can\u2019t do anything, and your family is just taking care of you: have you lost your sense of who you are, because \u201cWell, God has made me a Bible teacher?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Maybe a better way to talk about it is: \u201cGod has made me a Bible teacher in this season until He changes the plans. But the one fixed given\u2014the one thing that\u2019s not changing\u2014is that I am His son.\u201d So, I think if we can appreciate that all those other identity markers are really temporal, but the one that sticks, that\u2019s the one we need to live and die by. I think that sorts so many things out.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think this is just rich, even as a listener, for you to ask that question: \u201cWhat is my identity? Who am I?\u201d But then, that other question, too: \u201cWhat\u2019s your purpose?\u201d I feel like I just can\u2019t get it out of my head: \u201cYour purpose is a Person. It\u2019s Jesus.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, ask yourself: \u201cIs that yours?\u201d or \u201cWhere are you finding your identity?\u201d or \u201cWhere are you trying to get your purpose?\u201d Because, as you said, if it\u2019s in what I\u2019m doing, that\u2019s always shifting. It\u2019s always changing.<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, it\u2019s interesting: Ann, when she would lead the Lions\u2019 wives\u2019 Bible study, she would tell me this\u2014I would lead it once a season, by the way; they\u2019d have me come in; she didn\u2019t even come, and have a husband\u2014anyway, she said [she] would often ask them every season: \u201cI want you to tell me who you are.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cYou can\u2019t mention who your husband is, what you do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cYou can\u2019t mention your occupation. Just tell me who you are.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201c[You can\u2019t mention] where you went to college, any of your training, or even your job,\u201d because these are incredibly sharp, beautiful, gifted women. When I asked that question\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: \u2014crickets.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014silence!<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Because they had no idea; but if one of them\u2014there was one woman one year\u2014she said, \u201cI am a child of the living God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was like, \u201cOh, she\u2019s got it! She\u2019s got it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Jimmy: That\u2019s it. That\u2019s exactly right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It would be a great question to ask our kids, too.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: It\u2019s so important to know where our identity rests: \u201cWho are you? Who are you?\u201d That\u2019s a really good question\u2014maybe, a great question\u2014to ask around the dinner table tonight when you\u2019re having a meal with your family. But then, make some qualifications with your spouse and your kids, and get to the heart of who they believe they are. Then, like we were just hearing, point them to Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jimmy and Kelly Needham on FamilyLife Today. Kelly has written a book called Purposefooled: Why Chasing Your Dreams, Finding Your Calling, and Reaching for Greatness Will Never Be Enough. Wow! What a title! [It\u2019s] provocative and just one that, I think, so many of us need to dwell on in this culture that champions, perhaps, the wrong thing.<\/p>\n<p>This book is going to be our gift to you when you give to the ministry of FamilyLife\u00ae. You can get your copy right now with any donation that you make. Just go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the \u201cDonate Now\u201d button at the top of the page. Or you can give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d And feel free to drop us a donation in the mail if you\u2019d like, too. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832.<\/p>\n<p>It's a fantastic conversation today, and I\u2019m really looking forward to it continuing tomorrow. Jimmy and Kelly Needham are going to be back with the Wilsons to talk about overcoming insecurity and finding true fulfillment. That\u2019s tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs? Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. 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