{"id":283662,"date":"2024-07-12T09:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-07-12T09:36:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/adoption-the-sacred-and-the-sorrows-gary-chapman-and-laurel-shaler\/"},"modified":"2025-06-10T17:19:02","modified_gmt":"2025-06-10T21:19:02","slug":"adoption-the-sacred-and-the-sorrows-gary-chapman-and-laurel-shaler","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/adoption-the-sacred-and-the-sorrows-gary-chapman-and-laurel-shaler\/","title":{"rendered":"Adoption\u2014the Sacred and the Sorrows: Gary Chapman and Laurel Shaler"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>There&#8217;s no manual for adoptive parenting. There&#8217;s no step-by-step plan to prevent adoption trauma and guarantee beautiful, healthy attachments with no hiccups. Join Dave and Ann Wilson in part 2 of their conversation with Drs. Gary Chapman and Laurel Shaler about the complexities of adoption and the importance of communicating love in their unique way.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>There&#8217;s no manual for adoptive parenting. Join Gary Chapman and Laurel Shaler to learn how a child&#8217;s primary love language can improve emotional health!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280865,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/071c115a-fb3a-45a9-ab5d-b1990117ca2b\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:46","filesize":"25.46M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-07-12 09:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2818],"tags":[2714,2715],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[3353,9947],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-283662","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-adoption-and-orphans","tag-adoption-trauma","tag-adoptive-parenting","cwp_profile-gary-chapman","cwp_profile-laurel-shaler","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/283662\/adoption-the-sacred-and-the-sorrows-gary-chapman-and-laurel-shaler","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/283662\/adoption-the-sacred-and-the-sorrows-gary-chapman-and-laurel-shaler","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"xcYaq93xdS\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/adoption-the-sacred-and-the-sorrows-gary-chapman-and-laurel-shaler\/\">Adoption\u2014the Sacred and the Sorrows: Gary Chapman and Laurel Shaler<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/adoption-the-sacred-and-the-sorrows-gary-chapman-and-laurel-shaler\/embed\/#?secret=xcYaq93xdS\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Adoption\u2014the Sacred and the Sorrows: Gary Chapman and Laurel Shaler&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"xcYaq93xdS\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"There's no manual for adoptive parenting. Join Gary Chapman and Laurel Shaler to learn how a child's primary love language can improve emotional health!","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Learn more from Dr. Gary Chapman at <a href=\"http:\/\/5lovelanguages.com\/\">5lovelanguages.com<\/a>, or on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/5lovelanguages\/\">Instagram<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/5lovelanguages\/\">Facebook<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/drgarychapman?lang=en\">X<\/a>, or <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/user\/drgarychapman\">YouTube<\/a>. You can also check out his <a href=\"https:\/\/5lovelanguages.com\/resources\/podcasts\/\">podcasts<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Learn more from Dr. Laurel Shaler at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.drlaurelshaler.com\/\">https:\/\/www.drlaurelshaler.com\/<\/a>, or on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/DrLaurelShaler\">Facebook<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/DrLaurelShaler\">X<\/a>, or <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/drlaurelshaler\/\">Insta<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Grab their book \"<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/loving-adopted-children-well-a-5-love-languages-approach\">Loving Adopted Children Well: A 5 Love Languages\u00ae Approach<\/a>,\"<\/li>\n<li>Gary's book, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/5-traits-of-a-healthy-family-steps-you-can-take-to-grow-closer-communicate-better-and-change-the-world-together\/\">5 Traits of a Healthy Family<\/a>, is also in our shop!<\/li>\n<li>Want to hear more episodes by Dr. Gary Chapman, <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/gary-chapman\/\">listen here<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>This week, for a donation of any size, we'll send you \"<a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/july-2024\/peace-over-perfection\/\">Peace over Perfection: Enjoying a Good God When You Feel You're Never Good Enough<\/a>\" by Faith Chang as our way of saying a huge \"Thank you!\" for partnering with us toward stronger families around the world<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-07-12.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>Adoption - The Sacred and the Sorrows<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Dr. Gary Chapman and Laurel Shaler<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Loving Adopted Children Well (Day 2 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:July 12, 2024<\/p>\n<p>Gary: If we don\u2019t adopt, help the people who are. Do special things for them and for their children. There are lots of ways, whatever we can do, to reach out because that\u2019s what Jesus did, and He\u2019s our model.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We started a conversation yesterday with Dr. Gary Chapman, \u201cMr. Five Love Languages,\u201d and another doctor, Dr. Laurel Shaler, who\u2019s sitting back in our studio.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re going to apply this \u201cFive Love Languages\u201d concept to adopted families. What\u2019s the title of the book? Loving Adopted Children Well.<\/p>\n<p>I loved our conversation yesterday. I think it was really helpful. If you missed it, go back and listen to it. One of the things you get into in the book, hallway through, is not just how to apply these love languages, but when there are struggles in adoption or in adopted families. I don\u2019t know that. We haven\u2019t adopted. We have a son who has two adopted kids, but we\u2019ve heard stories and stories of struggles with adopted kids.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Well, especially in the teen years, some of those struggles come out. That can be whether they\u2019ve come into adoption at a later age or, maybe, they were adopted at birth. Can there be struggles at any stage of their adoption process?<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: Yes, I would say there can be struggles that come about at any point because the children are still learning their story, and they\u2019re still processing their story. They\u2019re going to get different pieces of information at different stages in their life. It really does depend on the child.<\/p>\n<p>My seven-year-old daughter knows that she is adopted, and she understands what adoption is. She will ask questions about her adoption story. My four-year-old son, even though it\u2019s a part of his story, and we tell him that he\u2019s adopted, and we talk a little bit about that, he doesn\u2019t understand it yet at all. There will come a point when he does.<\/p>\n<p>But even though they don\u2019t yet necessarily know the full story of their adoption, that doesn\u2019t mean that the adoption doesn't impact them. It doesn\u2019t mean their exposures, the prenatal exposures, doesn\u2019t impact them, because it does. The things that they experience while their biological mothers were pregnant with them are going to impact them now and potentially in the future.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019ve heard that before, that term \u201cin utero.\u201d Even when they\u2019re within the mother, in her pregnancy, they can still experience trauma.<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: Yes, absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Any baby can, I guess.<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: Right. Any baby can, definitely, but not all women who choose to place their children for adoption are using drugs or alcohol or tobacco; but they\u2019re all in some sort of difficult circumstance, or they wouldn\u2019t choose to place their child for adoption, or they wouldn\u2019t have their child removed at birth.<\/p>\n<p>In the case of our children, they were both removed from their biological mothers for various reasons. One of them was born with Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome; so, the biological mother had used drugs while she was pregnant. As a result of that, this kiddo was born going through withdrawals [and] had to go through treatment for that. It\u2019s very difficult. That can have an impact far beyond just those first few weeks of life.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You both are doctors, so I\u2019m guessing you\u2019re both experts on this question: does every adopted child go through some struggle at some point wanting to know their biological parents? I guess I shouldn\u2019t say \u201cevery,\u201d but is it common?<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: I think it\u2019s very common. I, of course, have been in this adoption world now for over a decade if you include the time prior to us adopting our first child. I\u2019ve certainly met some adoptees who are so incredibly grateful for their parents\u2014the ones who adopted them, who became their parents. Not everybody is all tied up in knots about their history or wanting to know their biological parents, but I think that there is still a natural curiosity about \u201cWho am I?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sometimes, the question becomes \u201cWhere do I belong? Where do I fit in?\u201d I remember meeting a woman at a conference who had several biological children, and they had adopted one child. The struggle for that child was that very question: \u201cHow do I fit in here? I\u2019m different. I\u2019m the only one that\u2019s been adopted.\u201d The mom tried and tried to show the child love and really struggled.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s when we began talking about: \u201cHow does that child best receive love? Have you talked with her about what makes her feel loved? Have you gone through some of these questions where you can compare something that would be attached to words of affirmation versus something that\u2019s attached to physical touch to see, \u2018What does she lean towards?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It really got the mom thinking about, \u201cOkay, I know I love this child. I know I treat her the same as my other children. But maybe there is a reason to treat her differently in the sense that maybe her love language is not the same as these other children.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think that it\u2019s important for us to be able to evaluate that and determine what\u2019s going to speak the best to each individual child.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Gary, do you think there\u2019s any difference in the way an adopted child feels loved by their parents than a biological child, or are they pretty much the same?<\/p>\n<p>Gary: I think that, at the root of all of it, it would be pretty much the same.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Gary: But I do think there\u2019s a vast difference, because that child has gone through a number of things in their life before they were adopted to these present parents, and they\u2019ve got all of these thoughts and feelings and experiences inside of them. Maybe they\u2019ve been told by other people: \u201cI love you, I love you,\u201d and then, they were abused in certain ways and all of that\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014or abandoned, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Gary: It\u2019s dealing with a lot of stuff. That\u2019s why there is a sense in which, the older a child is when they are adopted, the more history they\u2019ve had. That history can be positive, or that history can be negative, so parents need to be fully aware, as much and they can, about what this child has been through.<\/p>\n<p>You don\u2019t always know because you don\u2019t always have the full information. That\u2019s why building conversations with that child and having open, honest conversations with that child are really, really important to find out the things they\u2019ve been exposed to since before they came to you.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What do the two of you do when you\u2019re talking to parents who are in the midst of struggling with one of their adoptive children? They\u2019re at their wits\u2019 end. They love them. They want the best for them. How do you give them encouragement?<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: The first thing that comes to mind is, as a professor, I\u2019ve had students that are completing their internships, so they\u2019re working with individuals or couples or families. More and more, I\u2019ve had students who have had families in these situations, especially with adolescents or teenagers who are struggling.<\/p>\n<p>One of the things that I tell them not to encourage the parents is to just give them anything that they want and expect that that\u2019s going to compensate for what they\u2019ve lost. There\u2019s no way to make up for what they\u2019ve lost. You have to help them feel a sense of belonging and trust and safety and connection now. That takes time.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Would you add anything to that, Gary?<\/p>\n<p>Gary: I think with those adoptive children, as well, spending time with them and getting to know them is so much a part of the process.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Even if they\u2019re acting like they don\u2019t like you or want to be with you?<\/p>\n<p>Gary: Absolutely, and when they\u2019re angry, it\u2019s letting them talk and asking them questions to clarify what they\u2019re saying, rather than saying, \u201cDon\u2019t talk to me that way, da, da, da, da, da.\u201d No; keep asking questions and let them tell you about why they feel the way they feel and why they\u2019re behaving the way they\u2019re behaving; because this is one of the ways you build connection with them. They sense that: \u201cThey really hear me. They\u2019re listening to me. They are trying to understand me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think being big listeners, especially to older children who are able to talk; listening to them and identifying with them, and saying, \u201cI can see how you would feel that way. I am so sorry even to realize what you\u2019ve been through. We want to make the future different. In our family, we want to make the future different.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>They\u2019ll come to see that you are really making efforts to make things different, but if you try to stop their anger movements and that kind of thing and say, \u201cDon\u2019t do that!\u201d and \u201cDa, da, da,\u201d and preach to them, you\u2019re just like somebody else that doesn\u2019t like them.<\/p>\n<p>Listening is a huge part of the process.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Do you encourage, if you have biological children and adopted one or two, taking the adoptive child away on a trip, just for them for them, to feel special or [would you say], \u201cNo, don\u2019t do that. Don\u2019t treat them differently than your bio kids\u201d?<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: I think having special time with each child is very important. It goes back to quality time. I think that\u2019s a time that you don\u2019t want to take away regardless of how the child has been behaving.<\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s say you have a kid who loves to play basketball, and they want you to play basketball with them every night after dinner. It may be the house rule is: \u201cIt doesn\u2019t matter what kind of day you\u2019ve had, good, bad or indifferent. We\u2019re still going to go out and play basketball after dinner, because that\u2019s our time to connect. That\u2019s my time to hear from you.\u201d I think it takes the pressure off. It\u2019s kind of like play therapy. There\u2019s not as much pressure. \u201cYou don\u2019t have to sit, look me in the eye, and tell me everything. We\u2019re just going to have a conversation and chat as we\u2019re playing basketball.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So, I think, in more direct response to your question, it\u2019s not that you shouldn\u2019t take them away. I think you could have special time with each child, and I think it would be meaningful to do that.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Do you ever tell the parents\u2014because I would say this to myself, and then to my friends that were parenting teens: \u201cDon\u2019t take it personally.\u201d [Laughter] Do you ever say that to the parents? \u201cSometimes, it\u2019s not about you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Gary: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: They\u2019re just figuring things out, and, hormonally, everything is shifting.<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But as a parent, we get our feelings hurt. I think it\u2019s really easy to pull back when our feelings get hurt instead of, as you\u2019re both saying, \u201cPursue them, pursue them. Hear their story, and don\u2019t let their anger push you away.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Gary: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was talking to my son a few weeks ago. He was in the car with one of his sons who happened to be adopted. I said, \u201cHi, guys. Where are you going?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He said, \u201cOh, we\u2019re just going to therapy.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I said, \u201cI didn\u2019t know you were doing that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He said, \u201cYes, we both are.\u201d He said, \u201cWe\u2019ve been doing this with our son since he was four years old,\u201d which I thought was so wise. He said, \u201cYes, it\u2019s good just to have other voices that are talking to him about his adoption; who he is, where he belongs. We tell him that all the time, but sometimes it\u2019s good to have another person processing that with him.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Gary: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Would you recommend that, too, even if the child seems like they\u2019re fine, because he seems like he\u2019s great?<\/p>\n<p>Gary: I think it\u2019s always helpful. Listen, almost all of us could use counseling. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, that\u2019s what I told him. I should be going. I wish I were in the car with you.<\/p>\n<p>Gary: Another whole issue that we do discuss in the book is when you adopt a child from another culture\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Gary: \u2014and sometimes another language, as well as that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Gary: That can be even more of a challenge, I think, at times, because of the difference in the cultures.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Talk about that, Laurel.<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: Absolutely. I was thinking about a family I know. They\u2019ve adopted two children from Russia, and they\u2019ve had to overcome those language barriers, because they met these children when they were young, but they had already learned the Russian language because they weren\u2019t infants. They had to, then, learn English in addition to coming to a new country and experiencing a whole new culture.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve learned from several friends who were involved in transracial adoptions, or transcultural adoptions, that you really want to take the time and energy to invest in learning about the culture of your child or children, because we don\u2019t want to take them away from that and just say, \u201cNow you\u2019re part of my family and my culture, so we\u2019re going to let all of your own past go.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>No; instead, that brings more richness to your own family. You can learn about that culture and that heritage and integrate that into the family. I think that counseling can go a long way, especially if you can find a counselor that has some background knowledge, even if it\u2019s just that they\u2019ve worked with other families in a similar situation.<\/p>\n<p>You want to look for counselors that have expertise in adoption, have expertise in trauma, in play therapy, in art therapy. You want to be cautious about who you go see, but definitely, seek out somebody.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Do you have any stories of families that have integrated that saying, \u201cWe do want to learn about your culture\u201d?<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: For sure! Sometimes, the child themself is not able to teach you, because maybe they\u2019re too young, maybe they don\u2019t remember, or maybe they don\u2019t know. So, it\u2019s really on us to learn.<\/p>\n<p>I have a friend who adopted; she\u2019s white, and she adopted an African American child. She has sought out other black mamas to help her with her daughter\u2019s hair. Even if it\u2019s something that sounds as simple as that, but it makes a difference, because you want to use the right hair products, the right hair styles. Again, that\u2019s a way she shows her daughter: \u201cI see you for who you are, and I\u2019m not trying to make you look like me, and I\u2019m not trying to make you look like the other daughters in my family. But I want you to be you, so I\u2019m going to learn for your benefit.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Talk about your last chapter, called \u201cFaith Matters.\u201d Where does our walk with God, our faith, come into this whole thing, especially, I\u2019m guessing, when trauma starts to happen? But even without it, where is God in this in your opinion?<\/p>\n<p>Gary: I think, for many people, their relationship with God is what led them to adopt in the first place.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Gary: Because they know God cares for the orphans and the widows. We don\u2019t normally adopt widows, [Laughter] but we can orphans. That often is the case. I think, as we do adopt, whether Christians or not, Christians have an asset, because we have a relationship with God, and we can say to God, \u201cOkay, Lord, I\u2019m having trouble here. I need wisdom.\u201d The Bible says, \u201cIf you ask for wisdom, I\u2019ll give you wisdom.\u201d [James 1:5, Paraphrased]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Gary: Sometimes, He gives wisdom through other people, whether it is counselors or friends or somebody else who has an adopted child.<\/p>\n<p>But I think our relationship with God is so important when we\u2019re working with adopted children, because God is the one who gives us patience, and we need patience. [Laughter] He\u2019s the One who gives us a listening ear because He has a listening ear.<\/p>\n<p>I think maintaining our walk with God as we seek to parent them\u2014this is true of biological parents, too\u2014I remember when my wife said\u2014when our son was a teenager, she said one day: \u201cHe\u2019s your son. You take over now.\u201d [Laughter] We all get exasperated at times, you know?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Gary: Our relationship with God is extremely important as we raise adopted children.<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: Yes, I think it all starts with prayer. You have to be super prayerful about pursuing adoption, and don\u2019t move forward with adoption unless you know God has called you to adoption, because it is a hard journey, and it shouldn\u2019t be taken lightly.<\/p>\n<p>Sometimes, one partner in a marriage, usually the wife, really wants to adopt and, sometimes, the other partner doesn\u2019t. If your husband doesn\u2019t want to adopt, you can\u2019t force his hand here. It\u2019s not wise for your marriage; it\u2019s not wise for the children.<\/p>\n<p>You want to make sure that you\u2019re both on the same page, that you feel God\u2019s call to adopt, and that you pursue that seeking Him first. Like Matthew 6:33 says, \u201cSeek first the kingdom of heaven.\u201d We want to seek God\u2019s will for our lives and His will for the lives of the children we might bring into our home.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right now, Nick, your husband, is literally taking care of three kids.<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: That\u2019s right, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Who knows what\u2019s happening in that room right now?<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: I don\u2019t know. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Two of them are on his face or head.<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: Hopefully they don\u2019t have any markers in there. The green room might not be green anymore. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. I don\u2019t know where they are. We had one guy come in here with his kids [and] knocked the ceiling panels out of the drop ceiling. We said, \u201cWhat happened?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: Oh, no!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It was awesome. [Laughter] But when you guys were considering the adoption process, what did that conversation look like? Was it, \u201cWe\u2019re both in\u201d immediately, or was it a longer journey?<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: That\u2019s a great question. I\u2019ve always felt a burden for children in need of homes, since I was a teenager; but I felt this sense, even though I\u2019m assertive and speak up plenty, I knew that wasn\u2019t something I could force Nick into [and] that it had to be a matter of prayer. If the Lord placed it on his heart, then He placed it on his heart.<\/p>\n<p>I remember, we\u2019d been married nine years, and my husband came to me one day and said, \u201cI think we should adopt.\u201d I said, \u201cMe, too. Let\u2019s go for it. I\u2019m ready! I\u2019ve been ready for a long time.\u201d Then we began pursuing that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Even that, in the way you told that story, it\u2019s like you were trusting God, saying, \u201cI\u2019m not going to force this on him.\u201d It sounds like you hardly even brought it up.<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: That is the truth of that. That is the honest truth.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What happened in you that you were thinking about this as a teenage girl?<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: I remember meeting a young lady who had been a foster child. From that point on, I thought, \u201cYes, we need to do that. We need to take people in who have a need for a home.\u201d We haven\u2019t pursued foster care yet, but I believe that probably will be a part of our journey in the future once our other kiddos are a little bit older.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Gary, when you\u2019ve been on before, you\u2019ve talked about the ministry that you had with kids on the street who really had a rough background. You poured into them, and discipled them, and loved them, and mentored them.<\/p>\n<p>Laurel, I\u2019m hearing you, and you have this heart for families and kids and the adoptive kids. I would love for you guys\u2014I always love hearing families that are passionate, because this is God\u2019s heart for those who don\u2019t have homes, don\u2019t have a mom and dad, that are the orphan, that are alone\u2014that\u2019s in you, that part of you. For you, Gary, even saying, \u201cI want to be a part of this book, because this matters.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Gary: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Speak up for those little lives who don\u2019t have families. Not to put a guilt trip on any of us but talk about the need that\u2019s out there.<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: There really is a great need. Again, I believe it all starts with prayer; but even if the Lord does not call somebody to foster or adopt, He is calling us all to do something.<\/p>\n<p>I remember a friend of mine telling me that when they received a foster child, their Sunday school class just showed up with diapers and clothes and meals. She said, \u201cOne of the ladies in our Sunday school class would literally come in, and not only bring a meal, but she would wait and then clean up the kitchen after [the family] ate.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>What can you do? Another lady that I know stepped in and plays an \u201caunt\u201d role to a girl who was adopted after a traumatic experience happened in her biological family. She\u2019s even taken this young lady on trips to Ireland and England. She has really embraced her and become an aunt to her.<\/p>\n<p>It may not be that God calls everybody to adopt or to foster, but He\u2019s calling us all to do something to be in the lives of the families that have been called.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Gary: The Apostle Peter said this about Jesus: \u201cHe went about doing good.\u201d [Acts 10:38, Paraphrased] If you want a one-sentence summary of the lifestyle of Jesus, that\u2019s it: \u201cHe went about doing good.\u201d We\u2019re His children, and we\u2019re called to be about doing good.<\/p>\n<p>As you said, if we don\u2019t adopt, help the people who are. Do special things for them and for their children. There are lots of ways that we can help, and there are many organizations, of course, that work with children who are not yet adopted, and they\u2019re caring for them in orphanages and those kinds of places.<\/p>\n<p>Whatever we can do to reach out, because that\u2019s what Jesus did, and He\u2019s our model.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes; and when you think of what it means to be a Christ follower, it means to love Him and love others and to follow His call on your life. I\u2019m guessing there are some people today who didn\u2019t even know it before they heard this broadcast, they\u2019re being called to do what you\u2019ve done, Laurel. They\u2019re being called to literally adopt someone.<\/p>\n<p>They\u2019ve been\u2014we\u2019ve been\u2014adopted. We are children of God because He adopted us into His family that we don\u2019t deserve to be adopted into. That\u2019s the gospel. That\u2019s grace! Yet, when there\u2019s a young one that has no future parent that wants them and we become that parent, my gosh, we\u2019re being Jesus. You\u2019re being Jesus to those little kids who we saw running around that lunchroom. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s so beautiful to think that you were God\u2019s choice, you and Nick, to say, \u201cI\u2019m going to be Jesus through these parents who see you and adopt you and give you a future.\u201d Who knows what that\u2019s going to look like for them?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I like that it all started with prayer, saying, \u201cLord, is this something You have for me? Is this something You have for our family?\u201d Then, you didn\u2019t go and pressure\u2014 because I could probably have done that: \u201cI feel like God is calling us to do this. We are doing this!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Because that puts them [on] the spot. You can make them feel super guilty.<\/p>\n<p>Laurel: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We could guilt them into it. I like that you\u2019re saying, \u201cIt\u2019s a calling.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, and I would just add, as grandparents of two adoptive kids, it\u2019s one of the most beautiful things.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: All of them are. They are no different. It\u2019s a joy.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: They are our family. There\u2019s no difference. They\u2019re the Wilsons.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: They\u2019re the Wilsons.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. You\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Dr. Gary Chapman and Dr. Laurel Shaler on FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Shaler and Dr. Chapman have written a book called Loving Adopted Children Well: A Five Love Languages Approach. This is a book based on Dr. Chapman\u2019s best-selling Five Love Languages. [It\u2019s] a specialized resource for intentional love for families with adoptive children.<\/p>\n<p>You can get your copy right now by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can find it in our show notes. Call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve been talking about healthy families and how there are lots of obstacles in the way to healthy families. One of those obstacles is perfectionism; perfectionism that we require of ourselves as parents and consequently that we require of our kids. It can be difficult, for not only us, but our kids.<\/p>\n<p>Early this week, we had on a guest, Faith Chang, who wrote a book called Peace Over Perfection: Enjoying a Good God When You Feel You\u2019re Never Good Enough. This really helps believers who are struggling with perfectionism and guilt in their Christian walk. This book is going to be our gift to you when you give to the ministry of FamilyLife.<\/p>\n<p>You can get your copy right now with any donation by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com and clicking on the \u201cDonate Now\u201d button at the top of the page. Or just give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Or feel free to drop us something in the mail if you\u2019d like. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, Florida 32832.<\/p>\n<p>Now, coming up next week we have one of our favorites, Nana Dulce. Nana is going to be back in studio to chat and focus on stories of women in the Bible from Eve to Mary. We\u2019re going to dive into themes of redemption, obedience, and God\u2019s providence, using specifically the story of Esther. That\u2019s coming up next week. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/283662","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=283662"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280865"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=283662"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=283662"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=283662"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=283662"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=283662"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=283662"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}