{"id":281289,"date":"2024-06-25T09:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-06-25T09:57:36","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/how-to-forgive-when-bitterness-feels-better-stephen-viars\/"},"modified":"2024-11-19T04:15:02","modified_gmt":"2024-11-19T09:15:02","slug":"how-to-forgive-when-bitterness-feels-better-stephen-viars","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-to-forgive-when-bitterness-feels-better-stephen-viars\/","title":{"rendered":"How to Forgive (&#8230;When Bitterness Feels Better): Stephen Viars"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>What&#8217;s it look like to combat bitterness when you&#8217;re immersed in pain? Pastor and author Stephen Viars explores the power of lament to give voice and resolution to our deepest grief.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What&#8217;s it look like to combat bitterness?  Pastor and author Stephen Viars explores the power of lament to give voice and resolution to our deepest grief.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280865,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/78460056-6b37-4fe4-a065-b18d01526c18\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:03","filesize":"24.81M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[],"tags":[2699],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9749],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-281289","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","tag-forgiveness","cwp_profile-stephen-viars","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/281289\/how-to-forgive-when-bitterness-feels-better-stephen-viars","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/281289\/how-to-forgive-when-bitterness-feels-better-stephen-viars","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"MIkQszWkIi\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-to-forgive-when-bitterness-feels-better-stephen-viars\/\">How to Forgive (&#8230;When Bitterness Feels Better): Stephen Viars<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-to-forgive-when-bitterness-feels-better-stephen-viars\/embed\/#?secret=MIkQszWkIi\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;How to Forgive (&#8230;When Bitterness Feels Better): Stephen Viars&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"MIkQszWkIi\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["78460056-6b37-4fe4-a065-b18d01526c18"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/78460056-6b37-4fe4-a065-b18d01526c18\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:27:03"],"filesize":["24.81M"],"_thumbnail_id":["280865"],"show_notes":["\n<ul>\n<li>Connect with Stephen's church ministry at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.faithlafayette.org\/\">faithlafayette.org<\/a> and stay connected at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblicalcounselingcoalition.org\/\">biblicalcounselingcoalition.org<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Discover the secret sauce of great marriages and the importance of respect and communication in relationships. Join the <a href=\"http:\/\/lovelikeyoumeanitcruise.com\/\">Love Like You Mean It marriage cruise for 2025!<\/a> Promo code: \"SEAS25\" for discounts<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul><\/ul>\n\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-06-25.pdf"],"transcript_content":["\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript\r\n\r\nReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.\r\n\r\nHow to Forgive (When Bitterness Feels Better)\r\n\r\nGuest:Stephen Viars\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Overcoming Bitterness (Day 2 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:June 25, 2024\r\n\r\nAnn: I remember when we were first dating, and\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014those were glorious days!\r\n\r\nAnn: Weren\u2019t they fun?!\r\n\r\nDave: Yes! A long time ago, but they were pretty fun.\r\n\r\nAnn: But one of the sad things to me was\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014wait, wait, wait! We\u2019re talking about good things! [Laughter] What do you mean, \u201csad?\u201d [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: Welcome to our marriage! [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: Here we go.\r\n\r\nAnn: I\u2019m like, \u201cLet\u2019s go deep and feel it,\u201d and you\u2019re like, \u201cWait! Let\u2019s just stay up here on the surface.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cCan we watch another movie?\u201d [Laughter]\r\n\r\nShelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nAnn: This is FamilyLife Today!\r\n\r\nAnn: I loved your mom. One of the reasons I loved your mom is because she had endured so much: divorce, losing a child, She had faced the many affairs that your dad had had, and yet, she really was seeking Jesus. But when we first started dating, she would drink at night, and then all of the stories came out. I remember saying to you, \u201cOh, man! Your mom is still so lost in the past of not forgiving your dad.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: Yes, and it\u2019s obviously something I grew up with. Her method of dealing with the bitterness\u2014and there was bitterness, and often covered up; it was just an underlying seething\u2014was to drink and to sort of just step into denial\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014and to hide the pain.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014and I watched that.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes; and I thought, \u201cMy mom is bitter. I\u2019m not.\u201d [Laughter] And then I realized, \u201cI have a lot of that as well.\u201d Thank God, I didn\u2019t go to alcohol to, you know, take away the pain, but I needed to figure out: \u201cHow do you take away the real pain?\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Because we all face it\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014oh, in bitterness.\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014every day.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes; and so, that\u2019s the topic we\u2019re going to talk about today again with Stephen Viars, who wrote a book about this. He\u2019s a pastor in Lafayette, Indiana, which I love because I\u2019m a college Hoosier. We\u2019ve got him back on FamilyLife Today. Welcome back!\r\n\r\nStephen: It\u2019s a privilege to be here. Thank you very much.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes, we\u2019re so glad you\u2019re here. I mean, some of our listeners heard this before, but you\u2019re a pastor of Faith Church for how many years\u201434?\r\n\r\nStephen: Thirty-four years.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes, and [you] also developed a whole counseling center. I just love hearing what you\u2019re doing to help people, equip people, not only in their own lives, with understanding their journey, but to help others. Then, as you\u2019ve seen and I\u2019ve seen, especially in the church as a pastor, there\u2019s a lot of bitterness.\r\n\r\nStephen: Well, the sad reality is I don\u2019t have to go out into the pew in order to find bitterness in the church. I can find that in the pastor\u2019s office, because that\u2019s something with which I struggle.\r\n\r\nAnn: Steve, what is your story? When we write something, it\u2019s usually because it\u2019s something that we\u2019ve experienced. \r\n\r\nStephen: Well, part of it is [that] God blessed my wife and me with the opportunity to adopt a son with special needs; our son Andrew. He likes to be called \u201cThe Bear,\u201d so everybody who knows him calls him The Bear. He is blind, and he also had a number of other abnormalities in the development of his brain. [He\u2019s 28 years old], but he functions like he\u2019s about 7 or 8.\r\n\r\nIt's been a fascinating, fascinating sanctifying journey for my wife and me, and for The Bear. I\u2019m ashamed to tell you this, but I will tell you just because you asked about how it\u2019s affected me. I remember standing in a Walmart\u00ae one day. Andrew was about two years old; we were just starting to learn how significant his disability was. There was a large family in line ahead of me\u2014kids completely uncontrolled, and the father was holding a baby about the age of my son, Andrew. I looked into that child\u2019s eyes and thought, \u201cThe pastor\u2019s son\u2019s eyes don\u2019t work. Their son\u2019s eyes do.\u201d You know, that\u2019s bitterness talking.\r\n\r\nI\u2019m ashamed to tell you that my heart even has the capacity to think that kind of a wicked thought; but if I don\u2019t deal with that, I\u2019m going to become a very, very bitter man. The Scripture does link bitterness with jealousy and envy. Bitterness is a major issue in marriage; it\u2019s a major issue in families; it\u2019s a major issue in the office; and it can even be a major issue in church life.\r\n\r\nBut the great news is, Jesus Christ is a whole lot more powerful than that, so we don\u2019t have to be bitter people. That doesn\u2019t have to have the last say; it doesn\u2019t have to be our story. That\u2019s one of the reasons I wrote the book, to try to point men and women to our powerful Savior and His sufficient grace.\r\n\r\nDave: You know, Ann mentioned the title, Overcoming Bitterness: Moving from Life\u2019s Greatest Hurts to a Life Filled with Joy. And thank you for being that honest, because I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a person who hasn\u2019t felt what you felt. We struggle to admit it sometimes\u2014\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014you know? And we don\u2019t even want to see it in ourselves when we feel the jealousy; but as I think about my mom\u2014or so much of our bitterness is relational\u2014\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014a person. There\u2019s the jealousy and the envy of somebody I don\u2019t even know\u2014\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014right.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014a stranger in a store; but when somebody hurts you or does something, you identify: \u201cMan, I\u2019m not just hurt. I\u2019m bitter!\u201d Maybe it was yesterday; maybe it was ten years ago: \u201cIt\u2019s got me.\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cIt\u2019s in there. I\u2019m trying to overcome it to get to joy, and I feel like I can\u2019t get there.\u201d How do you get through the relational bitterness with a family member or friend? It could be a neighbor?It gets us, obviously, into talking about: \u201cDo we forgive?\u201d \u201cHow do we forgive?\u201d Talk about that journey in relational bitterness. What do I do?\r\n\r\nStephen: Yes, and this is one of the things I love about the sufficiency of the Scriptures. You know, in Ephesians 4:31-32, we have a verse that\u2019s very clear: \u201cLet all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: I think you\u2019ve memorized this, haven\u2019t you? [Laughter]\r\n\r\nStephen: So, you have that in 4:31. What\u2019s fascinating is, just a few verses before in Ephesians 4:26, Paul says, \u201cBe angry, and sin not.\u201d So, how do those things go together? I think, biblically and theologically, we have to define anger before we can define bitterness, because anger is a God-given emotion, which produces energy, allowing me to solve problems biblically and to solve problems today. God can allow me to use that anger to handle things well. However, if I don\u2019t use anger in a timely fashion\u2014today, before the sun goes down\u2014then it ferments, and it turns into bitterness. \r\n\r\nPart of what I do, in my heart, with bitterness is talk to God. I practice biblical lament. Many persons struggle with bitterness, because they have not learned the discipline of lament, of authenticity with the Lord. \r\n\r\nThe second reason many of us are bitter is because we haven\u2019t learned the discipline of going and talking with other people when we believe that they have sinned against us; practicing the art of biblical forgiveness. You have a passage like Luke 17:3-4, which is a seminal topic on this whole discussion: \u201cIf your brother sins, rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him.\u201d It\u2019s possible that some of our listeners may be bitter individuals because somebody mistreated them in some way. \r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014Dave\u2019s mom.\r\n\r\nStephen: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: And [his] dad never came back and apologized or repented for his actions. \r\n\r\nStephen: The challenge here is, even the person who was sinned against still has a responsibility in that matter. All of us may say, \u201cWell, that\u2019s not fair!\u201d God teaches us what He teaches us in His Word because it\u2019s true. So, I don\u2019t get to not do certain things, because I don\u2019t think they\u2019re fair. And I also have to remember, my heavenly Father loves me. He\u2019s put principles in His Word for His glory and for my good. So, as a person who has been mistreated, whenever it is possible, I have both the privilege and the responsibility to go and speak with that person.\r\n\r\nNow, I don\u2019t know for sure how that conversation is going to go; but I do know this: if I should have, and I didn\u2019t, then I\u2019m, at least, partially culpable for my bitterness. I know, as a counselor, those are hard words to say, and they are hard words to hear; but God has given us the Holy Spirit, Who gives us the power to do hard things.\r\n\r\nI have seen this happen over and over in counseling, where a person was embittered with someone else. At the right time and in the right way\u2014I know it\u2019s not always possible, but many times it is; at the right time and in the right way\u2014we bring those parties together. There\u2019s authentic confrontation; not to hurt the other person; not to demoralize the other person, but to bring about reconciliation, to bring about healing.\r\n\r\nI have seen persons, in some cases, say, \u201cI didn\u2019t even know I offended you. I didn\u2019t even realize I was\u2014thank you so much for telling me. And now that you\u2019ve told me that, I can think of other people. I probably have others I need to go ask to forgive me.\u201d I\u2019ve seen it work, because God\u2019s Word works where individuals, after they have been confronted, are willing to ask forgiveness. And then you have that beautiful restoration in a relationship. \r\n\r\nAnd of course, on a church level, that has to be happening in a church all the time! A church has to be a place where we\u2019re authentically talking with one another about the ways that we have sinned, the ways we\u2019ve been sinned against; bringing biblical communication; bringing about reconciliation. And if you don\u2019t, this is where \r\n\r\nHebrews 12:15 gets you again.\r\n\r\nDave: It\u2019s the root.\r\n\r\nStephen: Absolutely! That, and it causes trouble. Bitterness causes trouble in a marriage. It\u2019s not like, \u201cWell, I\u2019m bitter, but it\u2019s not going to do anything.\u201d Oh, it\u2019s going to do a lot! And the passage ends by saying \u201cit defiles many.\u201d And remember, then the passage ends by going to the poster boy of bitterness: Esau. What a haunting story Esau\u2019s is, because Scripture calls him a \u201cprofane man,\u201d a man who refused to embrace his place in the covenant community of God.\r\n\r\nWell, one of the ways I demonstrate that I truly am a child of God is by obeying His Word and going and confronting a person who has sinned against me with the goal of bringing about reconciliation, forgiveness, and healing. It\u2019s hard, but it\u2019s right; and that\u2019s one of the routes\u2014the paths\u2014out of bitterness.\r\n\r\nAnn: So, Esau should have gone to his brother Jacob and talked to him about stealing his birthright?\r\n\r\nStephen: I actually think Esau should have done more than that; but he, at least, should have done that. First of all, he shouldn\u2019t have sold it.\r\n\r\nAnn: Right. That revealed a lot, didn\u2019t it?\r\n\r\nStephen: Absolutely! It revealed that he was valuing the red stuff.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes, I love your phrase. \r\n\r\nAnn: The stew. \r\n\r\nDave: What\u2019s the \u201cred stuff\u201d?\r\n\r\nStephen: The red stuff is what Hebrew is for that red stew. A typical man, right? It\u2019s been like three hours since he ate: \u201cI\u2019m famished! I\u2019m going to die!\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: \u201cI\u2019m going to die.\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: \u201cI\u2019m going to die if I don\u2019t eat! Therefore, I\u2019m going to forsake my place in the covenant plan of God. I\u2019m going to give up my birthright for stew.\u201d \r\n\r\nWe kind of chuckle at that, but then, when we start thinking about all of the things that we\u2019re willing to sin for\u2014for the exact same\u2014it\u2019s red-stuff living: \r\n\r\n\u201cI didn\u2019t get my way, and now I\u2019m bitter.\u201d \r\n\r\n\u201cThat person didn\u2019t commend me like I wanted them to, and now, I\u2019m bitter.\u201d\r\n\r\n\u201cThat person got. . ., and now, I\u2019m bitter.\u201d\r\n\r\n\u201cNow, I\u2019m bitter.\u201d\r\n\r\nIt\u2019s red-stuff living, and I\u2019m forsaking my place in God\u2019s covenant plan for some idol! It\u2019s idolatry of the heart, for sure. \r\n\r\nTo answer your question, Ann, I believe he should have spoken to his brother about it; but even more powerful than that, he should have admitted his own culpability. And this is a hard point for all of us to hear, but it\u2019s true: bitterness makes us liars. And here\u2019s why: \u201cHow did Esau tell the story later?\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nStephen: He said, \u201cMy brother stole my birthright.\u201d That\u2019s not true. And here\u2019s what bitterness does: I replay the story over, and over, and over in my head; and every time I play it, the other person gets a little bit worse, and I get a little bit better.\r\n\r\nAnn: So true!\r\n\r\nStephen: When the Bible says bitterness will cause trouble and defile many, one of the persons it will defile is me, by making me a person who\u2019s not being honest about the ways I sinned. That\u2019s why it\u2019s so important to deal with it and to deal with it right away. \r\n\r\nDave: You\u2019re an expert on this. You know better than anybody\u2014even Matthew 5 \r\n\r\n[verses 23-24]\u2014where Jesus says if you have a conflict with your brother, don\u2019t even . . . \u201cLeave your offering. Go get reconciled.\u201d Go make this right and come back. \r\n\r\nSo, here\u2019s the question: \u201cWhat if I do all that? I\u2019m obedient. I go; I confront. I say, \u2018Man, what you did hurt me. I\u2019ve been bitter for days\u2019 (or \u2018years\u2019 or \u2018decades\u2019).\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: What you did with your dad.\r\n\r\nDave: \u201c\u2019I need to talk this through with you. I want to forgive you, so, respond.\u2019\u201d And they say, \u201cWhat the blank are you bitter about? I did nothing wrong!\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: So, they don\u2019t own it; they don\u2019t understand your hurt. It doesn\u2019t go the way you want on that side. You\u2019re doing what you do. What does that person do?\r\n\r\nStephen: Well, that\u2019s such a powerful question. I\u2019m sure that many of our listeners will say, \u201cThat\u2019s what happened to me.\u201d You started that question with Matthew 5, which is pretty hard for pastors even to talk about\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014I know. We don\u2019t bring it up. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014because we think worship is the most important thing, especially if you\u2019re giving; because Matthew 5 talks about: \u201cIf you\u2019re offering an offering\u2026\u201d Don\u2019t be messing with the offering time, right?! [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cJust give the money, and then, go do it.\u201d [Laughter]\r\n\r\nStephen: But what you said is right. Jesus says there\u2019s something more important than worship\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014right\u2014\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014and that is getting things right with your brother. \u201cSo, leave your gift at the altar, and go make things right with your brother first.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd then, you said, \u201cWell, what if I try to make things right, and the other person either won\u2019t repent\u201d\u2014if they\u2019re the one who has sinned against me\u2014\"or if they won\u2019t forgive me?\u201d\u2014if I\u2019m the one who has sinned against them? This is where Romans 12 is such a helpful passage in the Word of God, because Paul says in that passage, \u201cIf it be possible, as much as lieth within you, live at peace with all men.\u201d \r\n\r\nI am so thankful for the comprehensive nature of the Word of God. \u201cIf it\u2019s possible\u2014\u201d Well, if Paul said that, that has to tell us there are some situations, this side of heaven, where it\u2019s not; where you can do everything you\u2019re supposed to do, and that person either won\u2019t repent, if they\u2019re the one who sinned, or they won\u2019t forgive, if you\u2019re the one who sinned against them, and you\u2019re there to repent.\r\n\r\nIt\u2019s not always possible, but we\u2019re only responsible for us: \u201c\u2026 as much as lieth within you\u2026\u201d You think back to the whole Esau and Jacob story. Esau was not responsible for Jacob\u2019s trickery, or his mother!\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nStephen: That was one really messed-up family! [Laughter] \r\n\r\nDave: Yes.\r\n\r\nStephen: So, Esau was not responsible for everybody else; but Esau, for sure, was responsible for him: \u201c\u2026as much as lieth within you, live at peace with all men.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: So, what\u2019s the difference between bitterness and forgiveness? Is there a difference? Because I hear you saying that, and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cOkay. It\u2019s my responsibility to live at peace, and I need to deal with my bitterness. They didn\u2019t repent. Should I forgive?\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: Well, I think we have to do the exact same thing that Jesus did on the cross, where He prayed, \u201cFather, forgive them, for they know not what they do.\u201d Now, that doesn\u2019t mean that everybody within the sound of Jesus\u2019s voice was forgiven. There was another thief in that story, who would have heard those words, who certainly did not spend his eternity in heaven. So, we\u2019re not Universalists. \r\n\r\nHowever, Jesus was praying and expressing His\u2014I would call \u201ca forgiving spirit\u201d\u2014saying: \u201cLord, I don\u2019t want to be bitter. I don\u2019t want to continue to rehearse all this person\u2019s failures. I want to be a forgiving person. I want to pray for that person\u2019s repentance. I want to get through this, if it\u2019s possible in this situation. But if it\u2019s not, I\u2019m not going to continue to dwell on their failures. I\u2019m not going to continue to dwell on the hurt, because there\u2019s something more powerful in my life, and that\u2019s my forgiving Savior.\u201d \r\n\r\nIf my Savior has forgiven me of all of the ways that I have failed, and if His Father has placed Christ\u2019s righteousness on my account, there\u2019s so much in the gospel that fills up my heart and life every day. I just don\u2019t have time to dwell on all the failures of everybody else.\r\n\r\nPart of that is illustrated by the Passover meal. Remember, at Passover, the Israelites were instructed that, every year, they were to have a Passover meal after they left Egypt. What was the basis of that meal? The answer is bitter herbs; not just any lettuce. That wasn\u2019t a salad\u2014bitter herbs. What\u2019s fascinating is that was a lettuce that was indigenous to Egypt, so God wanted them to eat Egyptian food year after year. That\u2019s why lament is so important! We have to be authentic about the pains of our life.\r\n\r\nBut aren\u2019t you glad it wasn\u2019t just a meal of bitter herbs, and that was the end of it? Because you\u2019ve got that bitter taste in your mouth, and then next comes the unleavened bread. Who among us doesn\u2019t like fresh-baked bread? Of course, baked like that [it] shows the rapid nature of the redemption of God. So now, the sensations are different, because now, you\u2019ve got the unleavened bread. But what\u2019s that preparing you for? It\u2019s the sweetness of the Passover Lamb. \r\n\r\nYou talk about a direct path to the cross and the empty tomb. You talk about a direct path to the gospel. I don\u2019t need to spend time thinking about the failures of others, even [those] who have not chosen to repent. I\u2019m going to have a forgiving spirit toward them, because my heart and life are consumed with how my wonderful Savior has chosen to forgive me through His shed blood.\r\n\r\nDave: It\u2019s beautiful to hear that, because it gives us hope that, even though they don\u2019t respond the way we want\u2014they may never repent;Stephen: \u2014that\u2019s right.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014they may never own it\u2014there can be peace in my heart. There can actually be peace between us as [far as] it depends on me.\r\n\r\nStephen: Yes!\r\n\r\nDave: They may never respond the way we want.\r\n\r\nWhen I said to my dad, \u201cYou know, I\u2019ve wrestled with this for years.\u201d I\u2019m a man. I was actually in my mid-30s. He literally looked at me and said, \u201cWhat the blank for?\u201d \r\n\r\nStephen: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: He had no idea! And I\u2019m not kidding, three years later, and I had dealt with it because my wife told me I had to\u2014[Laughter]\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014I had gone on this journey, where the bitterness just floated out of my life. Not easily! It was work! It was real work, but it was gone.\r\n\r\nStephen: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: I remember saying to him one day, \u201cDid you ever regret the divorce with Mom?\u201d We had never talked about this, by the way; never. And immediately, he was like, \u201cYes.\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: Wow.\r\n\r\nDave: With this [look] like he\u2019s thought about it forever. I said, \u201cWhy?\u201d And he said, \u201cI missed out on my relationship with you.\u201d And I thought, \u201cHe, in the best way he knows how, he\u2019s saying, \u2018I\u2019m sorry..\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: That\u2019s right; that\u2019s right.\r\n\r\nDave: And I didn\u2019t need that, but it was nice to hear it; but there was the truth of: \u201cDo whatever it takes to live at peace with all men as far as it depends on you.\u201d I did everything I could, and there\u2019s peace. That\u2019s what you\u2019re saying.\r\n\r\nStephen: I wonder if your dad would have ever gotten to that place\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014right.\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014had you severed the relationship, and said, \u201cOkay, because he\u2019s not saying it the way I want him to say it right now\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014yes\u2014\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014\u201cI\u2019m never talking to him. I\u2019m not going to spend any time. We\u2019re not going to go to ball games and stuff.\u201d \r\n\r\nBut you gave him space. You did your part. You did Romans 12, and then, you left the rest to the Lord. Isn\u2019t it fascinating how God can work in the hearts and lives of people, apart from us, right? I want to be the heavenly payroll clerk. I want to be the one to makes it right by the end of business today. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: Right.\r\n\r\nStephen: And yet, if we just do what God wants us to do\u2014He may not do it all in this lifetime; He absolutely may not\u2014but on the other hand, it would be wrong for us to think, \u201cWell, if the person didn\u2019t repent today, in my way, he\u2019s never going to repent.\u201d That is not true. \r\n\r\nDave: Right.\r\n\r\nStephen: God can work in miraculous ways if we\u2019ll give Him room to work, and bitterness isn\u2019t giving Him room to work.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes, and I will say, Dave\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014are you going to say something nice?\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes. [Laughter] As a result of that conversation, and the work that you did in forgiving your dad, you became a free man.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes.\r\n\r\nStephen: Interesting.\r\n\r\nAnn: Because you were plagued with anger. There were so many things that were bottled up, and I watched you become free. Isn\u2019t that what we all hope for? Because Jesus said, \u201cI came to set the captive free.\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: Amen.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes, and I would say, freedom starts today, with a phone call; it could be an email; it could be driving over. Do whatever you can. You can\u2019t control the result, but you can control your heart. You can overcome bitterness. You can literally get to what you said, \u201ca life filled with joy.\u201d It\u2019s a journey, and it\u2019s worth whatever it takes to start that step toward the journey.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cStart it today.\u201d\r\n\r\nShelby: Bitterness is not giving God room to work, and that means to work in your heart. Just like Dave, I had to give God the room to work in my heart when I was on a journey to forgive my biological father for abandoning me when I was 13. It took me a long time to get there, but once I finally wrote a letter of forgiveness to him, after \r\n\r\n30 years of bitterness in my heart, I experienced that kind of freedom they were just talking about. And FYI, my father didn\u2019t respond well to the letter; but it didn\u2019t matter, because it was what God was calling me to, and bitterness no longer had a grip-hold on my heart. So, what\u2019s going to be your story related to this topic? Ask God to help you find out.\r\n\r\nI\u2019m Shelby Abbott. You\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Stephen Viars on FamilyLife Today. Stephen has written a book called Overcoming Bitterness: Moving from Life\u2019s Greatest Hurts to a Life Filled with Joy. You can get your copy right now by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can find it in our show notes. Or just give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \r\n\r\nYou know, today is the last day for something special. Did you know that FamilyLife offers an annual marriage cruise? Well, it\u2019s happening in February of 2025\u2014Love Like You Mean It\u00ae marriage cruise. It\u2019s a getaway for married couples looking for relaxation, romance, and renewal, and lifelong memories. More importantly, it\u2019s about reconnecting with one another and with God.\r\n\r\nRight now, today is the last day that you can book and save with our special promo. That\u2019s right; if you use the promo code \u201cSEAS25\u201d\u2014that\u2019s S-E-A-S-2-5 when you\u2019re booking your stateroom, you can save big. But again, the sale ends today, June 25th.   If you want to learn more, you can head over to FamilyLifeToday.com, and click on the Love Like You Mean It cruise banner or just give a call to our guest service team at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \r\n\r\nSo, what does it look like to combat bitterness; to actually fight it? Well, tomorrow, pastor and author Stephen Viars is back again with Dave and Ann Wilson to explore the power of lament to give voice and resolution to our deepest grief. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us. \r\n\r\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?  \r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife                                 \r\n\r\n\n"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-281289.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-281289.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-e11dbe9f{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-e11dbe9f > 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776362607;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"What's it look like to combat bitterness? Pastor and author Stephen Viars explores the power of lament to give voice and resolution to our deepest grief.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<ul>\n<li>Connect with Stephen's church ministry at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.faithlafayette.org\/\">faithlafayette.org<\/a> and stay connected at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblicalcounselingcoalition.org\/\">biblicalcounselingcoalition.org<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Discover the secret sauce of great marriages and the importance of respect and communication in relationships. Join the <a href=\"http:\/\/lovelikeyoumeanitcruise.com\/\">Love Like You Mean It marriage cruise for 2025!<\/a> Promo code: \"SEAS25\" for discounts<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul><\/ul>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-06-25.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript\r\n\r\nReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.\r\n\r\nHow to Forgive (When Bitterness Feels Better)\r\n\r\nGuest:Stephen Viars\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Overcoming Bitterness (Day 2 of 3)\r\n\r\nAir date:June 25, 2024\r\n\r\nAnn: I remember when we were first dating, and\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014those were glorious days!\r\n\r\nAnn: Weren\u2019t they fun?!\r\n\r\nDave: Yes! A long time ago, but they were pretty fun.\r\n\r\nAnn: But one of the sad things to me was\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014wait, wait, wait! We\u2019re talking about good things! [Laughter] What do you mean, \u201csad?\u201d [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: Welcome to our marriage! [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: Here we go.\r\n\r\nAnn: I\u2019m like, \u201cLet\u2019s go deep and feel it,\u201d and you\u2019re like, \u201cWait! Let\u2019s just stay up here on the surface.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cCan we watch another movie?\u201d [Laughter]\r\n\r\nShelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nAnn: This is FamilyLife Today!\r\n\r\nAnn: I loved your mom. One of the reasons I loved your mom is because she had endured so much: divorce, losing a child, She had faced the many affairs that your dad had had, and yet, she really was seeking Jesus. But when we first started dating, she would drink at night, and then all of the stories came out. I remember saying to you, \u201cOh, man! Your mom is still so lost in the past of not forgiving your dad.\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: Yes, and it\u2019s obviously something I grew up with. Her method of dealing with the bitterness\u2014and there was bitterness, and often covered up; it was just an underlying seething\u2014was to drink and to sort of just step into denial\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014and to hide the pain.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014and I watched that.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes; and I thought, \u201cMy mom is bitter. I\u2019m not.\u201d [Laughter] And then I realized, \u201cI have a lot of that as well.\u201d Thank God, I didn\u2019t go to alcohol to, you know, take away the pain, but I needed to figure out: \u201cHow do you take away the real pain?\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Because we all face it\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014oh, in bitterness.\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014every day.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes; and so, that\u2019s the topic we\u2019re going to talk about today again with Stephen Viars, who wrote a book about this. He\u2019s a pastor in Lafayette, Indiana, which I love because I\u2019m a college Hoosier. We\u2019ve got him back on FamilyLife Today. Welcome back!\r\n\r\nStephen: It\u2019s a privilege to be here. Thank you very much.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes, we\u2019re so glad you\u2019re here. I mean, some of our listeners heard this before, but you\u2019re a pastor of Faith Church for how many years\u201434?\r\n\r\nStephen: Thirty-four years.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes, and [you] also developed a whole counseling center. I just love hearing what you\u2019re doing to help people, equip people, not only in their own lives, with understanding their journey, but to help others. Then, as you\u2019ve seen and I\u2019ve seen, especially in the church as a pastor, there\u2019s a lot of bitterness.\r\n\r\nStephen: Well, the sad reality is I don\u2019t have to go out into the pew in order to find bitterness in the church. I can find that in the pastor\u2019s office, because that\u2019s something with which I struggle.\r\n\r\nAnn: Steve, what is your story? When we write something, it\u2019s usually because it\u2019s something that we\u2019ve experienced. \r\n\r\nStephen: Well, part of it is [that] God blessed my wife and me with the opportunity to adopt a son with special needs; our son Andrew. He likes to be called \u201cThe Bear,\u201d so everybody who knows him calls him The Bear. He is blind, and he also had a number of other abnormalities in the development of his brain. [He\u2019s 28 years old], but he functions like he\u2019s about 7 or 8.\r\n\r\nIt's been a fascinating, fascinating sanctifying journey for my wife and me, and for The Bear. I\u2019m ashamed to tell you this, but I will tell you just because you asked about how it\u2019s affected me. I remember standing in a Walmart\u00ae one day. Andrew was about two years old; we were just starting to learn how significant his disability was. There was a large family in line ahead of me\u2014kids completely uncontrolled, and the father was holding a baby about the age of my son, Andrew. I looked into that child\u2019s eyes and thought, \u201cThe pastor\u2019s son\u2019s eyes don\u2019t work. Their son\u2019s eyes do.\u201d You know, that\u2019s bitterness talking.\r\n\r\nI\u2019m ashamed to tell you that my heart even has the capacity to think that kind of a wicked thought; but if I don\u2019t deal with that, I\u2019m going to become a very, very bitter man. The Scripture does link bitterness with jealousy and envy. Bitterness is a major issue in marriage; it\u2019s a major issue in families; it\u2019s a major issue in the office; and it can even be a major issue in church life.\r\n\r\nBut the great news is, Jesus Christ is a whole lot more powerful than that, so we don\u2019t have to be bitter people. That doesn\u2019t have to have the last say; it doesn\u2019t have to be our story. That\u2019s one of the reasons I wrote the book, to try to point men and women to our powerful Savior and His sufficient grace.\r\n\r\nDave: You know, Ann mentioned the title, Overcoming Bitterness: Moving from Life\u2019s Greatest Hurts to a Life Filled with Joy. And thank you for being that honest, because I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a person who hasn\u2019t felt what you felt. We struggle to admit it sometimes\u2014\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014you know? And we don\u2019t even want to see it in ourselves when we feel the jealousy; but as I think about my mom\u2014or so much of our bitterness is relational\u2014\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014a person. There\u2019s the jealousy and the envy of somebody I don\u2019t even know\u2014\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014right.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014a stranger in a store; but when somebody hurts you or does something, you identify: \u201cMan, I\u2019m not just hurt. I\u2019m bitter!\u201d Maybe it was yesterday; maybe it was ten years ago: \u201cIt\u2019s got me.\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cIt\u2019s in there. I\u2019m trying to overcome it to get to joy, and I feel like I can\u2019t get there.\u201d How do you get through the relational bitterness with a family member or friend? It could be a neighbor?It gets us, obviously, into talking about: \u201cDo we forgive?\u201d \u201cHow do we forgive?\u201d Talk about that journey in relational bitterness. What do I do?\r\n\r\nStephen: Yes, and this is one of the things I love about the sufficiency of the Scriptures. You know, in Ephesians 4:31-32, we have a verse that\u2019s very clear: \u201cLet all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: I think you\u2019ve memorized this, haven\u2019t you? [Laughter]\r\n\r\nStephen: So, you have that in 4:31. What\u2019s fascinating is, just a few verses before in Ephesians 4:26, Paul says, \u201cBe angry, and sin not.\u201d So, how do those things go together? I think, biblically and theologically, we have to define anger before we can define bitterness, because anger is a God-given emotion, which produces energy, allowing me to solve problems biblically and to solve problems today. God can allow me to use that anger to handle things well. However, if I don\u2019t use anger in a timely fashion\u2014today, before the sun goes down\u2014then it ferments, and it turns into bitterness. \r\n\r\nPart of what I do, in my heart, with bitterness is talk to God. I practice biblical lament. Many persons struggle with bitterness, because they have not learned the discipline of lament, of authenticity with the Lord. \r\n\r\nThe second reason many of us are bitter is because we haven\u2019t learned the discipline of going and talking with other people when we believe that they have sinned against us; practicing the art of biblical forgiveness. You have a passage like Luke 17:3-4, which is a seminal topic on this whole discussion: \u201cIf your brother sins, rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him.\u201d It\u2019s possible that some of our listeners may be bitter individuals because somebody mistreated them in some way. \r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014Dave\u2019s mom.\r\n\r\nStephen: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: And [his] dad never came back and apologized or repented for his actions. \r\n\r\nStephen: The challenge here is, even the person who was sinned against still has a responsibility in that matter. All of us may say, \u201cWell, that\u2019s not fair!\u201d God teaches us what He teaches us in His Word because it\u2019s true. So, I don\u2019t get to not do certain things, because I don\u2019t think they\u2019re fair. And I also have to remember, my heavenly Father loves me. He\u2019s put principles in His Word for His glory and for my good. So, as a person who has been mistreated, whenever it is possible, I have both the privilege and the responsibility to go and speak with that person.\r\n\r\nNow, I don\u2019t know for sure how that conversation is going to go; but I do know this: if I should have, and I didn\u2019t, then I\u2019m, at least, partially culpable for my bitterness. I know, as a counselor, those are hard words to say, and they are hard words to hear; but God has given us the Holy Spirit, Who gives us the power to do hard things.\r\n\r\nI have seen this happen over and over in counseling, where a person was embittered with someone else. At the right time and in the right way\u2014I know it\u2019s not always possible, but many times it is; at the right time and in the right way\u2014we bring those parties together. There\u2019s authentic confrontation; not to hurt the other person; not to demoralize the other person, but to bring about reconciliation, to bring about healing.\r\n\r\nI have seen persons, in some cases, say, \u201cI didn\u2019t even know I offended you. I didn\u2019t even realize I was\u2014thank you so much for telling me. And now that you\u2019ve told me that, I can think of other people. I probably have others I need to go ask to forgive me.\u201d I\u2019ve seen it work, because God\u2019s Word works where individuals, after they have been confronted, are willing to ask forgiveness. And then you have that beautiful restoration in a relationship. \r\n\r\nAnd of course, on a church level, that has to be happening in a church all the time! A church has to be a place where we\u2019re authentically talking with one another about the ways that we have sinned, the ways we\u2019ve been sinned against; bringing biblical communication; bringing about reconciliation. And if you don\u2019t, this is where \r\n\r\nHebrews 12:15 gets you again.\r\n\r\nDave: It\u2019s the root.\r\n\r\nStephen: Absolutely! That, and it causes trouble. Bitterness causes trouble in a marriage. It\u2019s not like, \u201cWell, I\u2019m bitter, but it\u2019s not going to do anything.\u201d Oh, it\u2019s going to do a lot! And the passage ends by saying \u201cit defiles many.\u201d And remember, then the passage ends by going to the poster boy of bitterness: Esau. What a haunting story Esau\u2019s is, because Scripture calls him a \u201cprofane man,\u201d a man who refused to embrace his place in the covenant community of God.\r\n\r\nWell, one of the ways I demonstrate that I truly am a child of God is by obeying His Word and going and confronting a person who has sinned against me with the goal of bringing about reconciliation, forgiveness, and healing. It\u2019s hard, but it\u2019s right; and that\u2019s one of the routes\u2014the paths\u2014out of bitterness.\r\n\r\nAnn: So, Esau should have gone to his brother Jacob and talked to him about stealing his birthright?\r\n\r\nStephen: I actually think Esau should have done more than that; but he, at least, should have done that. First of all, he shouldn\u2019t have sold it.\r\n\r\nAnn: Right. That revealed a lot, didn\u2019t it?\r\n\r\nStephen: Absolutely! It revealed that he was valuing the red stuff.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes, I love your phrase. \r\n\r\nAnn: The stew. \r\n\r\nDave: What\u2019s the \u201cred stuff\u201d?\r\n\r\nStephen: The red stuff is what Hebrew is for that red stew. A typical man, right? It\u2019s been like three hours since he ate: \u201cI\u2019m famished! I\u2019m going to die!\u201d \r\n\r\nDave: \u201cI\u2019m going to die.\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: \u201cI\u2019m going to die if I don\u2019t eat! Therefore, I\u2019m going to forsake my place in the covenant plan of God. I\u2019m going to give up my birthright for stew.\u201d \r\n\r\nWe kind of chuckle at that, but then, when we start thinking about all of the things that we\u2019re willing to sin for\u2014for the exact same\u2014it\u2019s red-stuff living: \r\n\r\n\u201cI didn\u2019t get my way, and now I\u2019m bitter.\u201d \r\n\r\n\u201cThat person didn\u2019t commend me like I wanted them to, and now, I\u2019m bitter.\u201d\r\n\r\n\u201cThat person got. . ., and now, I\u2019m bitter.\u201d\r\n\r\n\u201cNow, I\u2019m bitter.\u201d\r\n\r\nIt\u2019s red-stuff living, and I\u2019m forsaking my place in God\u2019s covenant plan for some idol! It\u2019s idolatry of the heart, for sure. \r\n\r\nTo answer your question, Ann, I believe he should have spoken to his brother about it; but even more powerful than that, he should have admitted his own culpability. And this is a hard point for all of us to hear, but it\u2019s true: bitterness makes us liars. And here\u2019s why: \u201cHow did Esau tell the story later?\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nStephen: He said, \u201cMy brother stole my birthright.\u201d That\u2019s not true. And here\u2019s what bitterness does: I replay the story over, and over, and over in my head; and every time I play it, the other person gets a little bit worse, and I get a little bit better.\r\n\r\nAnn: So true!\r\n\r\nStephen: When the Bible says bitterness will cause trouble and defile many, one of the persons it will defile is me, by making me a person who\u2019s not being honest about the ways I sinned. That\u2019s why it\u2019s so important to deal with it and to deal with it right away. \r\n\r\nDave: You\u2019re an expert on this. You know better than anybody\u2014even Matthew 5 \r\n\r\n[verses 23-24]\u2014where Jesus says if you have a conflict with your brother, don\u2019t even . . . \u201cLeave your offering. Go get reconciled.\u201d Go make this right and come back. \r\n\r\nSo, here\u2019s the question: \u201cWhat if I do all that? I\u2019m obedient. I go; I confront. I say, \u2018Man, what you did hurt me. I\u2019ve been bitter for days\u2019 (or \u2018years\u2019 or \u2018decades\u2019).\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: What you did with your dad.\r\n\r\nDave: \u201c\u2019I need to talk this through with you. I want to forgive you, so, respond.\u2019\u201d And they say, \u201cWhat the blank are you bitter about? I did nothing wrong!\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: So, they don\u2019t own it; they don\u2019t understand your hurt. It doesn\u2019t go the way you want on that side. You\u2019re doing what you do. What does that person do?\r\n\r\nStephen: Well, that\u2019s such a powerful question. I\u2019m sure that many of our listeners will say, \u201cThat\u2019s what happened to me.\u201d You started that question with Matthew 5, which is pretty hard for pastors even to talk about\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014I know. We don\u2019t bring it up. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014because we think worship is the most important thing, especially if you\u2019re giving; because Matthew 5 talks about: \u201cIf you\u2019re offering an offering\u2026\u201d Don\u2019t be messing with the offering time, right?! [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cJust give the money, and then, go do it.\u201d [Laughter]\r\n\r\nStephen: But what you said is right. Jesus says there\u2019s something more important than worship\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014right\u2014\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014and that is getting things right with your brother. \u201cSo, leave your gift at the altar, and go make things right with your brother first.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd then, you said, \u201cWell, what if I try to make things right, and the other person either won\u2019t repent\u201d\u2014if they\u2019re the one who has sinned against me\u2014\"or if they won\u2019t forgive me?\u201d\u2014if I\u2019m the one who has sinned against them? This is where Romans 12 is such a helpful passage in the Word of God, because Paul says in that passage, \u201cIf it be possible, as much as lieth within you, live at peace with all men.\u201d \r\n\r\nI am so thankful for the comprehensive nature of the Word of God. \u201cIf it\u2019s possible\u2014\u201d Well, if Paul said that, that has to tell us there are some situations, this side of heaven, where it\u2019s not; where you can do everything you\u2019re supposed to do, and that person either won\u2019t repent, if they\u2019re the one who sinned, or they won\u2019t forgive, if you\u2019re the one who sinned against them, and you\u2019re there to repent.\r\n\r\nIt\u2019s not always possible, but we\u2019re only responsible for us: \u201c\u2026 as much as lieth within you\u2026\u201d You think back to the whole Esau and Jacob story. Esau was not responsible for Jacob\u2019s trickery, or his mother!\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nStephen: That was one really messed-up family! [Laughter] \r\n\r\nDave: Yes.\r\n\r\nStephen: So, Esau was not responsible for everybody else; but Esau, for sure, was responsible for him: \u201c\u2026as much as lieth within you, live at peace with all men.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: So, what\u2019s the difference between bitterness and forgiveness? Is there a difference? Because I hear you saying that, and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cOkay. It\u2019s my responsibility to live at peace, and I need to deal with my bitterness. They didn\u2019t repent. Should I forgive?\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: Well, I think we have to do the exact same thing that Jesus did on the cross, where He prayed, \u201cFather, forgive them, for they know not what they do.\u201d Now, that doesn\u2019t mean that everybody within the sound of Jesus\u2019s voice was forgiven. There was another thief in that story, who would have heard those words, who certainly did not spend his eternity in heaven. So, we\u2019re not Universalists. \r\n\r\nHowever, Jesus was praying and expressing His\u2014I would call \u201ca forgiving spirit\u201d\u2014saying: \u201cLord, I don\u2019t want to be bitter. I don\u2019t want to continue to rehearse all this person\u2019s failures. I want to be a forgiving person. I want to pray for that person\u2019s repentance. I want to get through this, if it\u2019s possible in this situation. But if it\u2019s not, I\u2019m not going to continue to dwell on their failures. I\u2019m not going to continue to dwell on the hurt, because there\u2019s something more powerful in my life, and that\u2019s my forgiving Savior.\u201d \r\n\r\nIf my Savior has forgiven me of all of the ways that I have failed, and if His Father has placed Christ\u2019s righteousness on my account, there\u2019s so much in the gospel that fills up my heart and life every day. I just don\u2019t have time to dwell on all the failures of everybody else.\r\n\r\nPart of that is illustrated by the Passover meal. Remember, at Passover, the Israelites were instructed that, every year, they were to have a Passover meal after they left Egypt. What was the basis of that meal? The answer is bitter herbs; not just any lettuce. That wasn\u2019t a salad\u2014bitter herbs. What\u2019s fascinating is that was a lettuce that was indigenous to Egypt, so God wanted them to eat Egyptian food year after year. That\u2019s why lament is so important! We have to be authentic about the pains of our life.\r\n\r\nBut aren\u2019t you glad it wasn\u2019t just a meal of bitter herbs, and that was the end of it? Because you\u2019ve got that bitter taste in your mouth, and then next comes the unleavened bread. Who among us doesn\u2019t like fresh-baked bread? Of course, baked like that [it] shows the rapid nature of the redemption of God. So now, the sensations are different, because now, you\u2019ve got the unleavened bread. But what\u2019s that preparing you for? It\u2019s the sweetness of the Passover Lamb. \r\n\r\nYou talk about a direct path to the cross and the empty tomb. You talk about a direct path to the gospel. I don\u2019t need to spend time thinking about the failures of others, even [those] who have not chosen to repent. I\u2019m going to have a forgiving spirit toward them, because my heart and life are consumed with how my wonderful Savior has chosen to forgive me through His shed blood.\r\n\r\nDave: It\u2019s beautiful to hear that, because it gives us hope that, even though they don\u2019t respond the way we want\u2014they may never repent;Stephen: \u2014that\u2019s right.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014they may never own it\u2014there can be peace in my heart. There can actually be peace between us as [far as] it depends on me.\r\n\r\nStephen: Yes!\r\n\r\nDave: They may never respond the way we want.\r\n\r\nWhen I said to my dad, \u201cYou know, I\u2019ve wrestled with this for years.\u201d I\u2019m a man. I was actually in my mid-30s. He literally looked at me and said, \u201cWhat the blank for?\u201d \r\n\r\nStephen: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: He had no idea! And I\u2019m not kidding, three years later, and I had dealt with it because my wife told me I had to\u2014[Laughter]\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014I had gone on this journey, where the bitterness just floated out of my life. Not easily! It was work! It was real work, but it was gone.\r\n\r\nStephen: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: I remember saying to him one day, \u201cDid you ever regret the divorce with Mom?\u201d We had never talked about this, by the way; never. And immediately, he was like, \u201cYes.\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: Wow.\r\n\r\nDave: With this [look] like he\u2019s thought about it forever. I said, \u201cWhy?\u201d And he said, \u201cI missed out on my relationship with you.\u201d And I thought, \u201cHe, in the best way he knows how, he\u2019s saying, \u2018I\u2019m sorry..\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: That\u2019s right; that\u2019s right.\r\n\r\nDave: And I didn\u2019t need that, but it was nice to hear it; but there was the truth of: \u201cDo whatever it takes to live at peace with all men as far as it depends on you.\u201d I did everything I could, and there\u2019s peace. That\u2019s what you\u2019re saying.\r\n\r\nStephen: I wonder if your dad would have ever gotten to that place\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014right.\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014had you severed the relationship, and said, \u201cOkay, because he\u2019s not saying it the way I want him to say it right now\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014yes\u2014\r\n\r\nStephen: \u2014\u201cI\u2019m never talking to him. I\u2019m not going to spend any time. We\u2019re not going to go to ball games and stuff.\u201d \r\n\r\nBut you gave him space. You did your part. You did Romans 12, and then, you left the rest to the Lord. Isn\u2019t it fascinating how God can work in the hearts and lives of people, apart from us, right? I want to be the heavenly payroll clerk. I want to be the one to makes it right by the end of business today. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: Right.\r\n\r\nStephen: And yet, if we just do what God wants us to do\u2014He may not do it all in this lifetime; He absolutely may not\u2014but on the other hand, it would be wrong for us to think, \u201cWell, if the person didn\u2019t repent today, in my way, he\u2019s never going to repent.\u201d That is not true. \r\n\r\nDave: Right.\r\n\r\nStephen: God can work in miraculous ways if we\u2019ll give Him room to work, and bitterness isn\u2019t giving Him room to work.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes, and I will say, Dave\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014are you going to say something nice?\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes. [Laughter] As a result of that conversation, and the work that you did in forgiving your dad, you became a free man.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes.\r\n\r\nStephen: Interesting.\r\n\r\nAnn: Because you were plagued with anger. There were so many things that were bottled up, and I watched you become free. Isn\u2019t that what we all hope for? Because Jesus said, \u201cI came to set the captive free.\u201d\r\n\r\nStephen: Amen.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes, and I would say, freedom starts today, with a phone call; it could be an email; it could be driving over. Do whatever you can. You can\u2019t control the result, but you can control your heart. You can overcome bitterness. You can literally get to what you said, \u201ca life filled with joy.\u201d It\u2019s a journey, and it\u2019s worth whatever it takes to start that step toward the journey.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cStart it today.\u201d\r\n\r\nShelby: Bitterness is not giving God room to work, and that means to work in your heart. Just like Dave, I had to give God the room to work in my heart when I was on a journey to forgive my biological father for abandoning me when I was 13. It took me a long time to get there, but once I finally wrote a letter of forgiveness to him, after \r\n\r\n30 years of bitterness in my heart, I experienced that kind of freedom they were just talking about. And FYI, my father didn\u2019t respond well to the letter; but it didn\u2019t matter, because it was what God was calling me to, and bitterness no longer had a grip-hold on my heart. So, what\u2019s going to be your story related to this topic? Ask God to help you find out.\r\n\r\nI\u2019m Shelby Abbott. You\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Stephen Viars on FamilyLife Today. Stephen has written a book called Overcoming Bitterness: Moving from Life\u2019s Greatest Hurts to a Life Filled with Joy. You can get your copy right now by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can find it in our show notes. Or just give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \r\n\r\nYou know, today is the last day for something special. Did you know that FamilyLife offers an annual marriage cruise? Well, it\u2019s happening in February of 2025\u2014Love Like You Mean It\u00ae marriage cruise. It\u2019s a getaway for married couples looking for relaxation, romance, and renewal, and lifelong memories. More importantly, it\u2019s about reconnecting with one another and with God.\r\n\r\nRight now, today is the last day that you can book and save with our special promo. That\u2019s right; if you use the promo code \u201cSEAS25\u201d\u2014that\u2019s S-E-A-S-2-5 when you\u2019re booking your stateroom, you can save big. But again, the sale ends today, June 25th.   If you want to learn more, you can head over to FamilyLifeToday.com, and click on the Love Like You Mean It cruise banner or just give a call to our guest service team at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \r\n\r\nSo, what does it look like to combat bitterness; to actually fight it? Well, tomorrow, pastor and author Stephen Viars is back again with Dave and Ann Wilson to explore the power of lament to give voice and resolution to our deepest grief. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us. \r\n\r\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?  \r\n\r\nCopyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife                                 \r\n\r\n\n","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/281289","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=281289"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280865"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=281289"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=281289"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=281289"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=281289"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=281289"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=281289"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}