{"id":280533,"date":"2023-06-01T09:15:00","date_gmt":"2023-06-01T13:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/how-should-christians-approach-pride-month-sam-allberry\/"},"modified":"2025-05-15T10:21:27","modified_gmt":"2025-05-15T14:21:27","slug":"how-should-christians-approach-pride-month-sam-allberry","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-should-christians-approach-pride-month-sam-allberry\/","title":{"rendered":"How Should Christians Approach Pride Month? Sam Allberry"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>What do Christians do with Pride Month? On FamilyLife Today, Dave and Ann Wilson host Sam Allberry&#8211;a pastor and author who&#8217;s experienced same-sex attraction. He offers thoughtful, wise, and compassionate principles on LGBT+ issues.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What do Christians do with Pride Month? On FamilyLife Today, Dave and Ann Wilson host Sam Allberry&#8211;a pastor and author who&#8217;s experienced same-sex attraction. He offers thoughtful, wise, and compassionate principles on LGBT+ issues. Show Notes and Resourc&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280866,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/6eb71282-a392-43f6-a3f4-b154011ec3a2\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:39","filesize":"28.09M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2023-06-01 09:15:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[8190],"cwp_profile":[3448],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-280533","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","podcast_series-is-god-anti-gay","cwp_profile-sam-allberry","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/280533\/how-should-christians-approach-pride-month-sam-allberry","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/280533\/how-should-christians-approach-pride-month-sam-allberry","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Ud5XrUfyvD\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-should-christians-approach-pride-month-sam-allberry\/\">How Should Christians Approach Pride Month? Sam Allberry<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-should-christians-approach-pride-month-sam-allberry\/embed\/#?secret=Ud5XrUfyvD\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;How Should Christians Approach Pride Month? Sam Allberry&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Ud5XrUfyvD\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["MS-000823"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/6eb71282-a392-43f6-a3f4-b154011ec3a2\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:30:39"],"filesize":["28.09M"],"_thumbnail_id":["280866"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li>Visit Sam Allberry's website at <a href=\"https:\/\/samallberry.com\/\">samallberry.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Order Sam's book: <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/is-god-anti-gay-and-other-questions-about-jesus-the-bible-and-same-sex-sexuality\/\">Is God Anti-Gay? And Other Questions About Jesus, the Bible, and Same-Sex Sexuality<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/?orderby=date\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"_edit_lock":["1747319166:47000"],"_edit_last":["47000"],"transcript_content":["<p>Shelby: Hi, Shelby Abbott here. I just want to give a heads up before you listen to this next program. Today\u2019s conversation on FamilyLife Today covers some sensitive, but important subjects that might not be suitable for younger ears, so please use discretion when listening to this next broadcast.<\/p>\n<p>Alright, now let\u2019s jump into it.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: I was just talking with someone this week who was complaining about the Christian sexual ethic and saying it\u2019s all hardship and denial and all the rest of it.<\/p>\n<p>I said, \u201cIn one sense, but would you rather have a starring role in a story that means nothing and goes nowhere, where you get to do everything you want, but it doesn\u2019t have any meaning and it doesn\u2019t count for anything, or would you rather have a smaller role in a story that is profoundly beautiful that gives your life dignity and purpose and meaning and significance?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n<p>You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife app.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Today is June 1st, and it\u2019s the first day of Pride Month.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m hoping that we can serve and help our listeners walk into this month with a perspective of love, of grace, and of wisdom and Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014and Jesus. I think a lot of us, me included, are \u201cHow do I understand this? How do I approach this? How do I love people?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cHow do I talk to our kids about this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It isn\u2019t just the month of June. This is a conversation that every family, especially Christian families, is going to need to have\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014and should have.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014all year long.<\/p>\n<p>I can\u2019t think of a better person to come in and help us think through this than Sam Allberry who is sitting right here in FamilyLife Today\u2019s studio with a smile on his face. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Sam, we love having you with us.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: I love being with you.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Honestly, I can\u2019t think of a better person that I would want to have in the studio right now, and not just because of your book that came out ten years ago now\u2014right? \u2014Is God Anti-Gay? It\u2019s been re-released.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Why has it been re-released?<\/p>\n<p>Sam: That book came out in 2013. Same sex marriage wasn\u2019t a legal thing in the U.K. or the U.S. That immediately feels like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014dated.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: \u2014decades and decades ago.<\/p>\n<p>The conversations have moved on, the questions have moved on, some of the language has moved on. I realized, \u201cI want to go through the book, do some re-writes, add in some things now that are being asked now that weren\u2019t being asked then and really reflect where the thing is at right now.<\/p>\n<p>One other factor is I wrote the book originally primarily for Christians, and I\u2019ve heard so many people who have used the book evangelistically. I thought, \u201cOkay, if I\u2019m going to do a re-write, let\u2019s try to make it as accessible as I can for someone who\u2019s not a believer.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: If you haven\u2019t already read a lot of Sam\u2019s other books, he\u2019s a pastor, he\u2019s an apologist, he\u2019s an author, he\u2019s a speaker. Some of your books include: What God Has to Say About Our Bodies, Why Does God Care About Who I Sleep With, and you\u2019ve also started writing some children\u2019s books.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Let\u2019s start with your story. Page one in your introduction: \u201cI first began to properly understand something of my sexuality around the same time that I began to understand Jesus Christ.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Take us back.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: I was around 17 years old. That was when I first started to hear the gospel. That was around the same time I was beginning to acknowledge to myself that I was attracted to guys, not attracted to girls. This was in the early 90\u2019s so a very different world [compared] to the one we live in now.<\/p>\n<p>I was then beginning to think through what to do about that. I remember saying to myself, \u201cWhen I go to the university\u2014\u201d I was looking to universities in different places than where I had grown up\u2014I remember thinking, \u201cMaybe when I go there, I can start to explore my sexuality, and then no one at home would ever need to know.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That was my plan. Then I heard the gospel and became a Christian, which hadn\u2019t been part of my plan. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Had you ever heard the gospel before?<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Not really. I grew up in Southern England. You always hear bits and pieces about Christianity and the Bible, but I\u2019d never really heard the message of God\u2019s grace. I had heard the ethics of Jesus and by implication, \u201cThis is the ethical way to live.\u201d I never quite understood how His death fit into anything. Because if it\u2019s \u201cGo and be a good person,\u201d I don\u2019t know why someone then has to hang on a cross.<\/p>\n<p>I heard the gospel clearly for the first time when I was 17. That\u2019s when I thought, \u201cOkay, that\u2019s what this is all about. It\u2019s God being kind to lost and bad people,\u201d rather than as I had assumed growing up, Christianity being about God congratulating good people.<\/p>\n<p>When I began to hear grace taught, I thought, \u201cOh, this makes sense of, not just what Jesus says, but of what Jesus did.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: He wooed you to Himself.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: He did. I remember thinking very early on as I began to protest the gospel, never realizing \u201cI need this. My heart is not right with God,\u201d I remember having this overwhelming conviction that Jesus had died for me, that I needed forgiveness through his death and that I could trust Him.<\/p>\n<p>I didn\u2019t know what following Him would involve. I had no idea what discipleship would look like. I didn\u2019t know what Jesus said about any of the kinds of things we\u2019re talking about today. But I knew that He loved me [so], whatever He did say would be okay because it\u2019s Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>I remember thinking, \u201cThis Jesus is way more compelling than the kind of vanilla Jesus I had grown up imagining. The kind of looks like one of the Bee Gees; sounds a bit like Gandhi image I had of Him. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>\u201cJust go off and be ethical,\u201d which is a bland Jesus, but this Jesus was far more compelling to me; that He would give Himself for me. I remember thinking, \u201cThis is someone I can build my life on.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Now as you came to Christ as a 17-year-old and you\u2019re thinking through your sexuality, was that primary as you decide \u201cI\u2019m going follow Christ; I want answers on this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sam: It was an important question for me. Again, I hadn\u2019t been planning on acting on anything yet partly because of feelings of shame about it. So, I didn\u2019t already have skin in the game in the sense of already starting down the path of having a same-sex relationship. But it was important. I wanted to know where things would stand with Jesus on this.<\/p>\n<p>But again, I knew I wanted to follow Him, so I knew I was prepared to follow Him whatever He did end up saying. I just didn\u2019t know what He did say. God gave me that kind of faith very early on, which I\u2019m grateful for because when I eventually did come to understand what He teaches and it\u2019s obviously very challenging, I didn\u2019t question the goodness of it because I already knew that Jesus is good. I didn\u2019t necessarily like everything He said, but I liked the guy who was saying it and that was enough.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I highlighted last night early in your book you say, \u201cGod\u2019s word to me on this issue at times, feels confusing and difficult, but it is nevertheless deeply and profoundly good. The gospel of Jesus is wonderful news for someone who experiences same-sex attraction.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Walk that out a little bit.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: It\u2019s not good news if your main reference point is, \u201cHow much stuff do I get to do that I want?\u201d It\u2019s pretty bad news if that\u2019s your outlook, but it\u2019s bad news for everyone if that\u2019s your outlook.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s profoundly good news because of the story He\u2019s inviting you into. I was just talking with someone this week who was complaining about the Christian sexual ethic and saying, \u201cIt\u2019s all hardship and denial and all the rest of it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I said, \u201cWell, in one sense, but would you rather have starring role in a story that means nothing and goes nowhere, where you get to do everything you want but it doesn\u2019t have any meaning and it doesn\u2019t count for anything, or would you rather have a smaller role in a story that is profoundly beautiful, that gives your life dignity and purpose and meaning and significance?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Just purely on the metric of \u201cDo I get to do what I want sexually?\u201d Yes, Christianity can feel like bad news. But if we raise the metric to \u201cDo I want my life to count for something? Do I want my life to mean something?\u201d Because if you take the secular sexual ethic, you have to take the secular story, too. You can\u2019t say, \u201cI\u2019m going to do whatever I want sexually\u201d without also taking the fact that if that\u2019s the case, your life doesn\u2019t mean anything.<\/p>\n<p>Whereas Jesus is inviting us into discipleship, He\u2019s inviting us into denial. He\u2019s so upfront about that. But He\u2019s inviting us into His story where we get to be part of something so profoundly beautiful, which actually then far eclipses our desires for sexual satisfaction anyway. Sexual satisfaction turns out - \u201cIt wasn\u2019t that big a deal.\u201d But what Jesus is inviting us into really is.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I love that. It\u2019s so beautiful, and the way you paint the picture of it is so beautiful. As we think about marriage or sexuality or our desires that will bring us fulfilment, now that I\u2019m older I can say, \u201cThose things are nothing in comparison to the beauty of the gospel and knowing Jesus.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s because she\u2019s married to me. [Laughter] That\u2019s probably what I just heard.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No, we have a great marriage. You\u2019re amazing, but still nothing compares to\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m kidding. I agree 1000 percent.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, but when you\u2019re younger you don\u2019t really get that. A lot of people don\u2019t have that good view of God - that He\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: I think part of where we haven\u2019t always helped ourselves in the wider Christian community is we sometimes just given people the negatives without any of that sense of \u201cHere\u2019s how we taste the goodness of God.\u201d We\u2019ve given a list of \u201cThou shalt nots,\u201d which are true and they\u2019re there. But they\u2019re there in the context of a much more compelling story.<\/p>\n<p>We need to give that wider context of \u201cThis is why a good God would say these things about sexuality.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Now help us understand, because the narrative seems to be \u201cIf I follow Christ and I live out God\u2019s design for my sexuality, if I\u2019m same-sex attracted, He\u2019s asking me to deny my identity. This is who I am.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I know you write about this. I think your perspective is so needed. How do you separate that? Because I don\u2019t sense any of that in your perspective, but I often hear that as the narrative: \u201cThis is who I am. This is not what I should do then. God is asking me not to be who I am.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sam: It\u2019s one of those assumptions that is often subconscious. People aren\u2019t always even aware that it\u2019s happening, but we\u2019ve imbibed this idea that your sexual feelings, particularly if you would say you\u2019re not straight, your sexual feelings are who you are, they are your identity.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s part of the cultural narrative that we\u2019ve received in the Western world in our time that \u201cThis is who you are. You are your sexuality.\u201d Therefore, when someone says, \u201cYou can\u2019t act out on those feelings,\u201d that\u2019s being heard as \u201cYou can\u2019t be true to yourself. You can\u2019t be who you really are.\u201d That\u2019s sounds so psychologically harmful, and you are repressing your real self.<\/p>\n<p>But the question is \u201cWho told us this is who we are? And have we ever examined that claim? Does that stand up? Is that compelling?\u201d We just assume it.<\/p>\n<p>For me, I think there is so much more to who we are than our sexual feelings. Those things often feel very significant. They touch on so many areas of life. They\u2019re deeply personal. But the Bible gives us a far more rounded, richer, deeper view of what it means to be a human being than simply our sexual feelings.<\/p>\n<p>I think it shrinks someone to say they are their sexuality. It just doesn\u2019t deserve star billing.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Describe who are they in the fulness of God\u2019s creation.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Exactly. I have a very dear friend who\u2019s not a Christian. He\u2019s gay, young guy. Sometimes we talk about this whole issue of identity, but I find that I just try to treat him as someone who is more than his sexuality. So, I\u2019m asking about all the things that are part of his life. I\u2019m showing him there\u2019s more to him than just \u201cIs he dating someone?\u201d And if so, \u201cHow\u2019s it going?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s one part of his life. I\u2019m always interested to know how he\u2019s doing. But I\u2019m trying to show him that I see more to him than just that. Because I think it sounds compelling to hear you are your sexuality. That feels like it could be true. But what it ends up implying is \u201cYou can\u2019t really expect to have a full life without sexual fulfillment.\u201d If that\u2019s who you are, then that has to be going well for your life to be going well, which then makes it a very high stakes part of life.<\/p>\n<p>Little wonder then in our current times these things become the occasion for all kinds of mental health issues, for anxiety and even more serious things than that because we\u2019re being told \u201cThis is the key part of life.\u201d It\u2019s very easy to hear, \u201cYou are your sexuality\u201d and to begin to believe that a life without fulfilling my sexuality isn\u2019t really any life at all.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Sam, have people asked you that: \u201cDon\u2019t you feel like you\u2019re missing out?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: They have.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: More than that, they\u2019ve not just said don\u2019t you feel you\u2019re missing out, they\u2019ve said, \u201cYou are the reason that LGBT teenagers are committing suicide because you\u2019re making them miss out.\u201d I had a pastor just last week reach out to me and say, \u201cAre you really telling me my message to the young people in my church who are same sex attracted is that they won\u2019t have romantic fulfillment?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This is a pastor?<\/p>\n<p>Sam: This was a pastor. I remember thinking \u201cThere\u2019s an assumption behind that question, which is \u2018You have to have romantic fulfillment to really live.\u2019\u201d That\u2019s not a Christian insight. That\u2019s not part of the Christian story. But he\u2019s so imbibed that cultural narrative from the world around us. You misunderstand so much about what we\u2019re truly made for.<\/p>\n<p>I wanted to say, \u201cActually, we do have romantic fulfillment when we collapse into the arms of Jesus, not in an icky weird way, but in a \u2018Jesus is the bridegroom.\u2019\u201d Deeper than my romantic feelings are the yearnings I have to know and be loved by my Creator. \u201cAs the deer pants for the water, so my soul longs for you, oh Lord.\u201d [Psalm 42:1, Paraphrased] It\u2019s that kind of thing.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019ve got to ask\u2014you\u2019ve been asked this a thousand times. I guess we\u2019ve got to answer it: Is God anti-gay? [Laughter] It\u2019s the title of your book. It\u2019s something where I\u2019m \u201cYou\u2019ve not even asked him that question yet,\u201d so here it is.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: If there is not hope for our gay friends, there\u2019s no hope for any of us. God is offering us full free life in Jesus. Every single one of us. He should be rushing to the other end of the galaxy to avoid us. Yet, He\u2019s moving towards us in Christ to embrace us, to love us, to enfold us into His eternal love. He\u2019s doing that for every single one of us.<\/p>\n<p>He's not anti-any of us whilst He\u2019s opening His heart up to us. We have this amazing opportunity to collapse into the arms of Jesus. There are things Jesus has for us as a part of that life that we wouldn\u2019t always include in our definition of what full life should involve.<\/p>\n<p>But one of the ironies, one of the paradoxes of the Christian life is as we do voluntarily constrain ourselves to be obedient to Jesus, we begin to discover \u201cActually, He is giving His life.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: John 10:10.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Jesus said, \u201cI came that you might have life, and have it to the full.\u201d [Paraphrased]<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Yes, so those constraints He puts around us can often feel like He\u2019s killing us at times if we\u2019re honest. He even uses that language: \u201cTake up your cross.\u201d [Luke 9:23, Paraphrased] As time goes on, we begin to realize, as Christians, \u201cAt the very moments where I thought He was taking life from me, He was actually giving life to me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I used to think early on in my Christian life \u201cYou obey God so that you can be blessed by God.\u201d I came to realize, \u201cActually, obeying God is the blessing; that what Jesus is inviting us into is a much richer life than we would have come up with ourselves by far.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I know that before I came to Christ\u2014I [was] in college and I [was] living the wild life, didn\u2019t even know that the Bible said the sins of your father will visit down into the third and fourth generation. My dad was a womanizing alcoholic. I\u2019m a man in my 20\u2019s saying, \u201cI\u2019ll never be like my dad,\u201d and I\u2019m literally becoming my dad.<\/p>\n<p>If you would have asked me then \u201cWhy not become a Christian?\u201d I would say, \u201cHere it is\u2014\u201d I had thought it through \u201c\u2014There\u2019s no fun; there\u2019s no freedom; there\u2019s no fulfillment. I had never seen a Christian that really enjoyed life and had fun and laughed. I always saw\u2014there was no freedom. They couldn\u2019t do anything. They weren\u2019t allowed to do anything. And there\u2019s no fulfillment.<\/p>\n<p>Long story short, when I gave my life to Christ, a few years later, I\u2019m \u201cReal joy is in Christ.\u201d You talk about fun. \u201cReal freedom is not being in bondage to something you think is going to set you free [and] it ends up you\u2019re addicted to it. It\u2019s in Christ. Jesus even said, \u201cI\u2019ll make you free indeed.\u201d [John 8:36, Paraphrased]<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s this indeed part. It\u2019s like you don\u2019t even know freedom in Christ and fulfillment. The whole thing is what you\u2019re saying, \u201cIt\u2019s only found in Christ.\u201d But you can\u2019t know that until you\u2019ve experienced it.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Help us understand. As Christians we\u2019re stepping into the month of June.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: As a Christian family, too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, how do we process this month?<\/p>\n<p>Sam: It\u2019s going to be complicated for us because we won\u2019t, as Christians, affirm a lot of the things that are being celebrated in Pride Month. But we do love our friends.<\/p>\n<p>[During] Pride Month, I do want my friends to know how much they mean to me. I am glad that people can be more open and more honest. I may not like all the ways in which that is expressed in things like Pride Month. But I really do want people to know that they are cherished, that my life is richer for knowing them. I\u2019m not going to agree with a lot of the things people will be promoting in Pride Month, but I hope they will feel loved by me.<\/p>\n<p>Our challenge is we want to love people better than the culture loves them. The culture will celebrate someone\u2019s gayness in Pride Month. But I want someone to know I\u2019m celebrating something far deeper in them and I\u2019m celebrating them year-round. They are made in the image of God and loved by Him.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m guessing you have gay friends.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Do they feel that from you?<\/p>\n<p>Sam: You have to ask them. [Laughter] But that\u2019s my prayer. I just want to, in some limited way that I can, reflect something of the heart of Jesus to them. Because Jesus has come to all of us at our sinful worst and loved us, and I want people to step into the love of Christ as He\u2019s let me step into it.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: We\u2019ll hear more from Sam Allberry in just a second. \u201cBut we want to love people more than the culture loves them.\u201d What a profound thought because real love, as human beings, this is what Christ does with us.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Shelby Abbott and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Sam Allberry on FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Sam has written a book called Is God Anti-Gay? This is a new release of a previous installment of this book that came out many years ago, now updated with new questions, new content. You can find a copy by heading over to FamilyLifeToday.com or giving us a call at 800-358-6329.<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t know if you have kids like I do, but don\u2019t miss this tip as your kids begin to get older. Ready? Keep them talking. What does that mean? You want to be the go-to person for the hard stuff with your kids. Be willing to pry open the space for conversations that matter with them as they get older.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve got your back here at FamilyLife with a thing called Passport to Purity\u00ae. This is a weekend just for you and your preteen to talk about body changes, peer pressure, and things like dating. That\u2019s for preteens.<\/p>\n<p>Now if you have teens, Passport to Identity\u00ae can help your son or daughter learn how to make their faith their own. It can uncover their calling and help them to take responsibility. You can start the conversation with Passport to Purity or Passport to Identity right now with 25 percent off as you use the code, PASSPORT, for a limited time at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Again, look for Passport to Purity or Passport to Identity at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Alright, let\u2019s hear more from Sam Allberry about how we can celebrate the image bearers of God instead of merely their choices.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Our hope is that everyone that\u2019s living outside of the Word of God would feel that from the people of God.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: I think of one friend who had come from a Christian background, came out, sadly was kicked out by his family, which I struggle with that decision, went to live with a secular family who were very, very affirming of his sexuality and he came out on Instagram, had all the plaudits and the acclaim you would expect in our culture today. But over time he began to realize people were only celebrating his gayness.<\/p>\n<p>I was trying to say to him throughout, \u201cThere\u2019s so much more to you than this.\u201d He began to realize it was actually quite a superficial acceptance he was experiencing, that there was more to him than this and it actually began to lead him back towards Jesus is the thing. \u201cI want to be loved wholly, not just based on whether I\u2019m gay or not for our culture and that kind of thing.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: When someone tells you that they\u2019re gay, how should you respond? It\u2019s a fair question, and a tough question, too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave and Ann Wilson are joined again tomorrow with Sam Allberry who will be back along with our very own Rob Hudson to help us answer that question with kindness and clarity. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<br \/>\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife\u00ae. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n"],"theme_header_position":["Sticky"],"post_header_is_sticky":["default"],"is_header_overlay":["0"],"episode_type":["audio"],"date_recorded":["2023-06-01 09:15:00"],"enclosure":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/6eb71282-a392-43f6-a3f4-b154011ec3a2\/audio.mp3"],"_seopress_redirections_type":["301"],"_seopress_redirections_logged_status":["both"],"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":[""],"_g_feedback_shortcode_413a5bfa56158cb4b45fd0155573d87fd11c38a3":["\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Name\" type=\"name\"  required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Email\" type=\"email\" required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Website\" type=\"url\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Message\" type=\"textarea\" \/]"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_atts_413a5bfa56158cb4b45fd0155573d87fd11c38a3":["a:17:{s:2:\"to\";s:29:\"margaret.coyle@familylife.com\";s:7:\"subject\";s:86:\"[FamilyLife - A Cru Ministry] How Should Christians Approach Pride Month? Sam Allberry\";s:12:\"show_subject\";s:2:\"no\";s:6:\"widget\";i:0;s:14:\"block_template\";N;s:19:\"block_template_part\";N;s:2:\"id\";i:280533;s:18:\"submit_button_text\";s:6:\"Submit\";s:14:\"customThankyou\";s:0:\"\";s:21:\"customThankyouHeading\";s:26:\"Your message has been sent\";s:21:\"customThankyouMessage\";s:30:\"Thank you for your submission!\";s:22:\"customThankyouRedirect\";s:0:\"\";s:10:\"jetpackCRM\";b:1;s:9:\"className\";N;s:9:\"postToUrl\";N;s:14:\"salesforceData\";N;s:12:\"hiddenFields\";N;}"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-280533.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-280533.js"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"What do Christians do with Pride Month? On FamilyLife Today, Dave and Ann Wilson host Sam Allberry--a pastor and author who's experienced same-sex attraction. He offers thoughtful, wise, and compassionate principles on LGBT+ issues. Show Notes and Resourc...","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Visit Sam Allberry's website at <a href=\"https:\/\/samallberry.com\/\">samallberry.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Order Sam's book: <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/is-god-anti-gay-and-other-questions-about-jesus-the-bible-and-same-sex-sexuality\/\">Is God Anti-Gay? And Other Questions About Jesus, the Bible, and Same-Sex Sexuality<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/?orderby=date\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"","transcript_content":"<p>Shelby: Hi, Shelby Abbott here. I just want to give a heads up before you listen to this next program. Today\u2019s conversation on FamilyLife Today covers some sensitive, but important subjects that might not be suitable for younger ears, so please use discretion when listening to this next broadcast.<\/p>\n<p>Alright, now let\u2019s jump into it.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: I was just talking with someone this week who was complaining about the Christian sexual ethic and saying it\u2019s all hardship and denial and all the rest of it.<\/p>\n<p>I said, \u201cIn one sense, but would you rather have a starring role in a story that means nothing and goes nowhere, where you get to do everything you want, but it doesn\u2019t have any meaning and it doesn\u2019t count for anything, or would you rather have a smaller role in a story that is profoundly beautiful that gives your life dignity and purpose and meaning and significance?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n<p>You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife app.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Today is June 1st, and it\u2019s the first day of Pride Month.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m hoping that we can serve and help our listeners walk into this month with a perspective of love, of grace, and of wisdom and Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014and Jesus. I think a lot of us, me included, are \u201cHow do I understand this? How do I approach this? How do I love people?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cHow do I talk to our kids about this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It isn\u2019t just the month of June. This is a conversation that every family, especially Christian families, is going to need to have\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014and should have.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014all year long.<\/p>\n<p>I can\u2019t think of a better person to come in and help us think through this than Sam Allberry who is sitting right here in FamilyLife Today\u2019s studio with a smile on his face. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Sam, we love having you with us.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: I love being with you.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Honestly, I can\u2019t think of a better person that I would want to have in the studio right now, and not just because of your book that came out ten years ago now\u2014right? \u2014Is God Anti-Gay? It\u2019s been re-released.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Why has it been re-released?<\/p>\n<p>Sam: That book came out in 2013. Same sex marriage wasn\u2019t a legal thing in the U.K. or the U.S. That immediately feels like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014dated.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: \u2014decades and decades ago.<\/p>\n<p>The conversations have moved on, the questions have moved on, some of the language has moved on. I realized, \u201cI want to go through the book, do some re-writes, add in some things now that are being asked now that weren\u2019t being asked then and really reflect where the thing is at right now.<\/p>\n<p>One other factor is I wrote the book originally primarily for Christians, and I\u2019ve heard so many people who have used the book evangelistically. I thought, \u201cOkay, if I\u2019m going to do a re-write, let\u2019s try to make it as accessible as I can for someone who\u2019s not a believer.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: If you haven\u2019t already read a lot of Sam\u2019s other books, he\u2019s a pastor, he\u2019s an apologist, he\u2019s an author, he\u2019s a speaker. Some of your books include: What God Has to Say About Our Bodies, Why Does God Care About Who I Sleep With, and you\u2019ve also started writing some children\u2019s books.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Let\u2019s start with your story. Page one in your introduction: \u201cI first began to properly understand something of my sexuality around the same time that I began to understand Jesus Christ.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Take us back.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: I was around 17 years old. That was when I first started to hear the gospel. That was around the same time I was beginning to acknowledge to myself that I was attracted to guys, not attracted to girls. This was in the early 90\u2019s so a very different world [compared] to the one we live in now.<\/p>\n<p>I was then beginning to think through what to do about that. I remember saying to myself, \u201cWhen I go to the university\u2014\u201d I was looking to universities in different places than where I had grown up\u2014I remember thinking, \u201cMaybe when I go there, I can start to explore my sexuality, and then no one at home would ever need to know.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That was my plan. Then I heard the gospel and became a Christian, which hadn\u2019t been part of my plan. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Had you ever heard the gospel before?<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Not really. I grew up in Southern England. You always hear bits and pieces about Christianity and the Bible, but I\u2019d never really heard the message of God\u2019s grace. I had heard the ethics of Jesus and by implication, \u201cThis is the ethical way to live.\u201d I never quite understood how His death fit into anything. Because if it\u2019s \u201cGo and be a good person,\u201d I don\u2019t know why someone then has to hang on a cross.<\/p>\n<p>I heard the gospel clearly for the first time when I was 17. That\u2019s when I thought, \u201cOkay, that\u2019s what this is all about. It\u2019s God being kind to lost and bad people,\u201d rather than as I had assumed growing up, Christianity being about God congratulating good people.<\/p>\n<p>When I began to hear grace taught, I thought, \u201cOh, this makes sense of, not just what Jesus says, but of what Jesus did.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: He wooed you to Himself.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: He did. I remember thinking very early on as I began to protest the gospel, never realizing \u201cI need this. My heart is not right with God,\u201d I remember having this overwhelming conviction that Jesus had died for me, that I needed forgiveness through his death and that I could trust Him.<\/p>\n<p>I didn\u2019t know what following Him would involve. I had no idea what discipleship would look like. I didn\u2019t know what Jesus said about any of the kinds of things we\u2019re talking about today. But I knew that He loved me [so], whatever He did say would be okay because it\u2019s Jesus.<\/p>\n<p>I remember thinking, \u201cThis Jesus is way more compelling than the kind of vanilla Jesus I had grown up imagining. The kind of looks like one of the Bee Gees; sounds a bit like Gandhi image I had of Him. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>\u201cJust go off and be ethical,\u201d which is a bland Jesus, but this Jesus was far more compelling to me; that He would give Himself for me. I remember thinking, \u201cThis is someone I can build my life on.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Now as you came to Christ as a 17-year-old and you\u2019re thinking through your sexuality, was that primary as you decide \u201cI\u2019m going follow Christ; I want answers on this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sam: It was an important question for me. Again, I hadn\u2019t been planning on acting on anything yet partly because of feelings of shame about it. So, I didn\u2019t already have skin in the game in the sense of already starting down the path of having a same-sex relationship. But it was important. I wanted to know where things would stand with Jesus on this.<\/p>\n<p>But again, I knew I wanted to follow Him, so I knew I was prepared to follow Him whatever He did end up saying. I just didn\u2019t know what He did say. God gave me that kind of faith very early on, which I\u2019m grateful for because when I eventually did come to understand what He teaches and it\u2019s obviously very challenging, I didn\u2019t question the goodness of it because I already knew that Jesus is good. I didn\u2019t necessarily like everything He said, but I liked the guy who was saying it and that was enough.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I highlighted last night early in your book you say, \u201cGod\u2019s word to me on this issue at times, feels confusing and difficult, but it is nevertheless deeply and profoundly good. The gospel of Jesus is wonderful news for someone who experiences same-sex attraction.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Walk that out a little bit.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: It\u2019s not good news if your main reference point is, \u201cHow much stuff do I get to do that I want?\u201d It\u2019s pretty bad news if that\u2019s your outlook, but it\u2019s bad news for everyone if that\u2019s your outlook.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s profoundly good news because of the story He\u2019s inviting you into. I was just talking with someone this week who was complaining about the Christian sexual ethic and saying, \u201cIt\u2019s all hardship and denial and all the rest of it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I said, \u201cWell, in one sense, but would you rather have starring role in a story that means nothing and goes nowhere, where you get to do everything you want but it doesn\u2019t have any meaning and it doesn\u2019t count for anything, or would you rather have a smaller role in a story that is profoundly beautiful, that gives your life dignity and purpose and meaning and significance?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Just purely on the metric of \u201cDo I get to do what I want sexually?\u201d Yes, Christianity can feel like bad news. But if we raise the metric to \u201cDo I want my life to count for something? Do I want my life to mean something?\u201d Because if you take the secular sexual ethic, you have to take the secular story, too. You can\u2019t say, \u201cI\u2019m going to do whatever I want sexually\u201d without also taking the fact that if that\u2019s the case, your life doesn\u2019t mean anything.<\/p>\n<p>Whereas Jesus is inviting us into discipleship, He\u2019s inviting us into denial. He\u2019s so upfront about that. But He\u2019s inviting us into His story where we get to be part of something so profoundly beautiful, which actually then far eclipses our desires for sexual satisfaction anyway. Sexual satisfaction turns out - \u201cIt wasn\u2019t that big a deal.\u201d But what Jesus is inviting us into really is.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I love that. It\u2019s so beautiful, and the way you paint the picture of it is so beautiful. As we think about marriage or sexuality or our desires that will bring us fulfilment, now that I\u2019m older I can say, \u201cThose things are nothing in comparison to the beauty of the gospel and knowing Jesus.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s because she\u2019s married to me. [Laughter] That\u2019s probably what I just heard.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No, we have a great marriage. You\u2019re amazing, but still nothing compares to\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m kidding. I agree 1000 percent.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, but when you\u2019re younger you don\u2019t really get that. A lot of people don\u2019t have that good view of God - that He\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: I think part of where we haven\u2019t always helped ourselves in the wider Christian community is we sometimes just given people the negatives without any of that sense of \u201cHere\u2019s how we taste the goodness of God.\u201d We\u2019ve given a list of \u201cThou shalt nots,\u201d which are true and they\u2019re there. But they\u2019re there in the context of a much more compelling story.<\/p>\n<p>We need to give that wider context of \u201cThis is why a good God would say these things about sexuality.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Now help us understand, because the narrative seems to be \u201cIf I follow Christ and I live out God\u2019s design for my sexuality, if I\u2019m same-sex attracted, He\u2019s asking me to deny my identity. This is who I am.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I know you write about this. I think your perspective is so needed. How do you separate that? Because I don\u2019t sense any of that in your perspective, but I often hear that as the narrative: \u201cThis is who I am. This is not what I should do then. God is asking me not to be who I am.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sam: It\u2019s one of those assumptions that is often subconscious. People aren\u2019t always even aware that it\u2019s happening, but we\u2019ve imbibed this idea that your sexual feelings, particularly if you would say you\u2019re not straight, your sexual feelings are who you are, they are your identity.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s part of the cultural narrative that we\u2019ve received in the Western world in our time that \u201cThis is who you are. You are your sexuality.\u201d Therefore, when someone says, \u201cYou can\u2019t act out on those feelings,\u201d that\u2019s being heard as \u201cYou can\u2019t be true to yourself. You can\u2019t be who you really are.\u201d That\u2019s sounds so psychologically harmful, and you are repressing your real self.<\/p>\n<p>But the question is \u201cWho told us this is who we are? And have we ever examined that claim? Does that stand up? Is that compelling?\u201d We just assume it.<\/p>\n<p>For me, I think there is so much more to who we are than our sexual feelings. Those things often feel very significant. They touch on so many areas of life. They\u2019re deeply personal. But the Bible gives us a far more rounded, richer, deeper view of what it means to be a human being than simply our sexual feelings.<\/p>\n<p>I think it shrinks someone to say they are their sexuality. It just doesn\u2019t deserve star billing.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Describe who are they in the fulness of God\u2019s creation.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Exactly. I have a very dear friend who\u2019s not a Christian. He\u2019s gay, young guy. Sometimes we talk about this whole issue of identity, but I find that I just try to treat him as someone who is more than his sexuality. So, I\u2019m asking about all the things that are part of his life. I\u2019m showing him there\u2019s more to him than just \u201cIs he dating someone?\u201d And if so, \u201cHow\u2019s it going?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s one part of his life. I\u2019m always interested to know how he\u2019s doing. But I\u2019m trying to show him that I see more to him than just that. Because I think it sounds compelling to hear you are your sexuality. That feels like it could be true. But what it ends up implying is \u201cYou can\u2019t really expect to have a full life without sexual fulfillment.\u201d If that\u2019s who you are, then that has to be going well for your life to be going well, which then makes it a very high stakes part of life.<\/p>\n<p>Little wonder then in our current times these things become the occasion for all kinds of mental health issues, for anxiety and even more serious things than that because we\u2019re being told \u201cThis is the key part of life.\u201d It\u2019s very easy to hear, \u201cYou are your sexuality\u201d and to begin to believe that a life without fulfilling my sexuality isn\u2019t really any life at all.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Sam, have people asked you that: \u201cDon\u2019t you feel like you\u2019re missing out?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: They have.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: More than that, they\u2019ve not just said don\u2019t you feel you\u2019re missing out, they\u2019ve said, \u201cYou are the reason that LGBT teenagers are committing suicide because you\u2019re making them miss out.\u201d I had a pastor just last week reach out to me and say, \u201cAre you really telling me my message to the young people in my church who are same sex attracted is that they won\u2019t have romantic fulfillment?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This is a pastor?<\/p>\n<p>Sam: This was a pastor. I remember thinking \u201cThere\u2019s an assumption behind that question, which is \u2018You have to have romantic fulfillment to really live.\u2019\u201d That\u2019s not a Christian insight. That\u2019s not part of the Christian story. But he\u2019s so imbibed that cultural narrative from the world around us. You misunderstand so much about what we\u2019re truly made for.<\/p>\n<p>I wanted to say, \u201cActually, we do have romantic fulfillment when we collapse into the arms of Jesus, not in an icky weird way, but in a \u2018Jesus is the bridegroom.\u2019\u201d Deeper than my romantic feelings are the yearnings I have to know and be loved by my Creator. \u201cAs the deer pants for the water, so my soul longs for you, oh Lord.\u201d [Psalm 42:1, Paraphrased] It\u2019s that kind of thing.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019ve got to ask\u2014you\u2019ve been asked this a thousand times. I guess we\u2019ve got to answer it: Is God anti-gay? [Laughter] It\u2019s the title of your book. It\u2019s something where I\u2019m \u201cYou\u2019ve not even asked him that question yet,\u201d so here it is.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: If there is not hope for our gay friends, there\u2019s no hope for any of us. God is offering us full free life in Jesus. Every single one of us. He should be rushing to the other end of the galaxy to avoid us. Yet, He\u2019s moving towards us in Christ to embrace us, to love us, to enfold us into His eternal love. He\u2019s doing that for every single one of us.<\/p>\n<p>He's not anti-any of us whilst He\u2019s opening His heart up to us. We have this amazing opportunity to collapse into the arms of Jesus. There are things Jesus has for us as a part of that life that we wouldn\u2019t always include in our definition of what full life should involve.<\/p>\n<p>But one of the ironies, one of the paradoxes of the Christian life is as we do voluntarily constrain ourselves to be obedient to Jesus, we begin to discover \u201cActually, He is giving His life.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: John 10:10.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Jesus said, \u201cI came that you might have life, and have it to the full.\u201d [Paraphrased]<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Yes, so those constraints He puts around us can often feel like He\u2019s killing us at times if we\u2019re honest. He even uses that language: \u201cTake up your cross.\u201d [Luke 9:23, Paraphrased] As time goes on, we begin to realize, as Christians, \u201cAt the very moments where I thought He was taking life from me, He was actually giving life to me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I used to think early on in my Christian life \u201cYou obey God so that you can be blessed by God.\u201d I came to realize, \u201cActually, obeying God is the blessing; that what Jesus is inviting us into is a much richer life than we would have come up with ourselves by far.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I know that before I came to Christ\u2014I [was] in college and I [was] living the wild life, didn\u2019t even know that the Bible said the sins of your father will visit down into the third and fourth generation. My dad was a womanizing alcoholic. I\u2019m a man in my 20\u2019s saying, \u201cI\u2019ll never be like my dad,\u201d and I\u2019m literally becoming my dad.<\/p>\n<p>If you would have asked me then \u201cWhy not become a Christian?\u201d I would say, \u201cHere it is\u2014\u201d I had thought it through \u201c\u2014There\u2019s no fun; there\u2019s no freedom; there\u2019s no fulfillment. I had never seen a Christian that really enjoyed life and had fun and laughed. I always saw\u2014there was no freedom. They couldn\u2019t do anything. They weren\u2019t allowed to do anything. And there\u2019s no fulfillment.<\/p>\n<p>Long story short, when I gave my life to Christ, a few years later, I\u2019m \u201cReal joy is in Christ.\u201d You talk about fun. \u201cReal freedom is not being in bondage to something you think is going to set you free [and] it ends up you\u2019re addicted to it. It\u2019s in Christ. Jesus even said, \u201cI\u2019ll make you free indeed.\u201d [John 8:36, Paraphrased]<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s this indeed part. It\u2019s like you don\u2019t even know freedom in Christ and fulfillment. The whole thing is what you\u2019re saying, \u201cIt\u2019s only found in Christ.\u201d But you can\u2019t know that until you\u2019ve experienced it.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Help us understand. As Christians we\u2019re stepping into the month of June.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: As a Christian family, too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, how do we process this month?<\/p>\n<p>Sam: It\u2019s going to be complicated for us because we won\u2019t, as Christians, affirm a lot of the things that are being celebrated in Pride Month. But we do love our friends.<\/p>\n<p>[During] Pride Month, I do want my friends to know how much they mean to me. I am glad that people can be more open and more honest. I may not like all the ways in which that is expressed in things like Pride Month. But I really do want people to know that they are cherished, that my life is richer for knowing them. I\u2019m not going to agree with a lot of the things people will be promoting in Pride Month, but I hope they will feel loved by me.<\/p>\n<p>Our challenge is we want to love people better than the culture loves them. The culture will celebrate someone\u2019s gayness in Pride Month. But I want someone to know I\u2019m celebrating something far deeper in them and I\u2019m celebrating them year-round. They are made in the image of God and loved by Him.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m guessing you have gay friends.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Do they feel that from you?<\/p>\n<p>Sam: You have to ask them. [Laughter] But that\u2019s my prayer. I just want to, in some limited way that I can, reflect something of the heart of Jesus to them. Because Jesus has come to all of us at our sinful worst and loved us, and I want people to step into the love of Christ as He\u2019s let me step into it.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: We\u2019ll hear more from Sam Allberry in just a second. \u201cBut we want to love people more than the culture loves them.\u201d What a profound thought because real love, as human beings, this is what Christ does with us.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Shelby Abbott and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Sam Allberry on FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Sam has written a book called Is God Anti-Gay? This is a new release of a previous installment of this book that came out many years ago, now updated with new questions, new content. You can find a copy by heading over to FamilyLifeToday.com or giving us a call at 800-358-6329.<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t know if you have kids like I do, but don\u2019t miss this tip as your kids begin to get older. Ready? Keep them talking. What does that mean? You want to be the go-to person for the hard stuff with your kids. Be willing to pry open the space for conversations that matter with them as they get older.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve got your back here at FamilyLife with a thing called Passport to Purity\u00ae. This is a weekend just for you and your preteen to talk about body changes, peer pressure, and things like dating. That\u2019s for preteens.<\/p>\n<p>Now if you have teens, Passport to Identity\u00ae can help your son or daughter learn how to make their faith their own. It can uncover their calling and help them to take responsibility. You can start the conversation with Passport to Purity or Passport to Identity right now with 25 percent off as you use the code, PASSPORT, for a limited time at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Again, look for Passport to Purity or Passport to Identity at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Alright, let\u2019s hear more from Sam Allberry about how we can celebrate the image bearers of God instead of merely their choices.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Our hope is that everyone that\u2019s living outside of the Word of God would feel that from the people of God.<\/p>\n<p>Sam: I think of one friend who had come from a Christian background, came out, sadly was kicked out by his family, which I struggle with that decision, went to live with a secular family who were very, very affirming of his sexuality and he came out on Instagram, had all the plaudits and the acclaim you would expect in our culture today. But over time he began to realize people were only celebrating his gayness.<\/p>\n<p>I was trying to say to him throughout, \u201cThere\u2019s so much more to you than this.\u201d He began to realize it was actually quite a superficial acceptance he was experiencing, that there was more to him than this and it actually began to lead him back towards Jesus is the thing. \u201cI want to be loved wholly, not just based on whether I\u2019m gay or not for our culture and that kind of thing.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: When someone tells you that they\u2019re gay, how should you respond? It\u2019s a fair question, and a tough question, too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave and Ann Wilson are joined again tomorrow with Sam Allberry who will be back along with our very own Rob Hudson to help us answer that question with kindness and clarity. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<br \/>\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife\u00ae. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/280533","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=280533"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280866"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=280533"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=280533"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=280533"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=280533"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=280533"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=280533"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}