{"id":280444,"date":"2023-09-08T09:15:00","date_gmt":"2023-09-08T13:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/when-the-worst-comes-to-your-marriage-howard-and-danielle-taylor\/"},"modified":"2025-05-06T16:51:23","modified_gmt":"2025-05-06T20:51:23","slug":"when-the-worst-comes-to-your-marriage-howard-and-danielle-taylor","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/when-the-worst-comes-to-your-marriage-howard-and-danielle-taylor\/","title":{"rendered":"When the Worst Comes to Your Marriage: Howard and Danielle Taylor"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Authors Howard and Danielle Taylor intentionally invested in each other, founded a marriage ministry\u2014and then tragedy dealt a gut-wrenching blow. They reveal how their marriage survived, and how a relationship can pull through the worst of times.<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p><em fetchpriority=\"high\"><strong>The secret to me in a long marriage for us is not that you\u2019re perfect, but you become professional forgivers. The longest marriage you have, they\u2019ve forgiven more than a short marriage, for sure, right? Everybody needs space for grace. &#8212; Howard Taylor<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Authors Howard and Danielle Taylor intentionally invested in each other, founded a marriage ministry\u2014and then tragedy dealt a gut-wrenching blow. They reveal how their marriage survived, and how a relationship can pull through the worst of times. The se&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280866,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/8c5a6d6f-6578-4651-9527-b154011dcfdc\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:41","filesize":"28.12M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2023-09-08 09:15:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[],"tags":[2255],"podcast_series":[8674],"cwp_profile":[9888],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-280444","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","tag-loving-those-who-mistreat-us","podcast_series-a-more-weatherproof-marriage-howard-and-danielle-taylor","cwp_profile-howard-and-danielle-taylor","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/280444\/when-the-worst-comes-to-your-marriage-howard-and-danielle-taylor","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/280444\/when-the-worst-comes-to-your-marriage-howard-and-danielle-taylor","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"DdeWhXsrDI\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/when-the-worst-comes-to-your-marriage-howard-and-danielle-taylor\/\">When the Worst Comes to Your Marriage: Howard and Danielle Taylor<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/when-the-worst-comes-to-your-marriage-howard-and-danielle-taylor\/embed\/#?secret=DdeWhXsrDI\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;When the Worst Comes to Your Marriage: Howard and Danielle Taylor&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"DdeWhXsrDI\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Authors Howard and Danielle Taylor intentionally invested in each other, founded a marriage ministry\u2014and then tragedy dealt a gut-wrenching blow. They reveal how their marriage survived, and how a relationship can pull through the worst of times. The se...","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<p>Connect with Howard and Danielle Taylor and find out more about Marriage on Deck at <a href=\"http:\/\/www.marriageondeck.com\/\">marriageondeck.com<\/a><br \/>\nOrder their book: The Fundamentals of Marriage here: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.marriageondeck.com\/store\">marriageondeck.com\/store<\/a><br \/>\nRevitalize your marriage: 50% off Weekend to Remember Getaways, Sep 4-18! Strengthen bonds and create lasting memories. Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/weekend-to-remember\/\">weekendtoremember.com\u00a0<\/a><br \/>\nFind resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><br \/>\nFind more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<br \/>\nHelp others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<br \/>\nCheck out all the FamilyLife podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/p>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-09-08.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>When the Worst Comes to Your Marriage<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Howard and Danielle Taylor<\/p>\n<p>From the series:A More Weatherproof Marriage (Day 2 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:September 8, 2023<\/p>\n<p>Howard: The secret to me in a long marriage for us is not that you\u2019re perfect, but you become professional forgivers. The longest marriage you have, they\u2019ve forgiven more than a short marriage, for sure, right? Everybody needs space for grace.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife app.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I was thinking about this last night. I think\u2014I know you are the most grace-giving\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014person\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014I have ever met.<\/p>\n<p>Howard and Danielle: Awww!<\/p>\n<p>Howard: That\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Come on! That\u2019s so nice of you!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You are so gracious to me and to others. Maybe not other drivers, but I mean\u2014<\/p>\n<p>[Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Howard: That\u2019s hilarious!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I was thinking about it, as we\u2019re going to talk about The Fundamentals of Marriage. When I was reading it I thought, \u201cI am married to the most loving, tender\u201d\u2014and again, it wasn\u2019t always that way.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What? I was going to say, that\u2019s miraculous, because I think I was the opposite when we first got married. I feel like I was super\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well we\u2019re not going there. We\u2019re talking about\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014judgmental, but thank you. That means a ton.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I watch you with strangers, and I watch you with our grandkids. I\u2019m inspired. I just wanted to say that.<\/p>\n<p>[Everyone talking at once.]<\/p>\n<p>Howard: That\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: That\u2019s so sweet.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You\u2019re so nice.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You\u2019re hearing Howard and Danielle Taylor, who are in the studio. I was reading your workbook\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Thank you for having us.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014last night, The Fundamentals of Marriage. You talk about a grace-filled marriage and the four factors.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: We can call it the forgiveness factors.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. It hit me yesterday when I was reading it; I thought, \u201cI just want to start today saying that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is the best program ever! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Howard: That\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Howard and Danielle, welcome back.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Thank you for having us.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Thank you so much.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You are the Marriage on Deck. Is it marriageondeck.com?<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Yes, marriageondeck.com.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Is that where people can find you?<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We talked a little bit about your story, but even that, as you hear about grace and the four factors, you don\u2019t have to get right into those, but how important would you say that is to a marriage? Because even as I listened to you guys yesterday, I thought, \u201cYou guys are really graceful people as well.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, so much so.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s a representation of the gospel as you give grace to each other.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I watched it yesterday. It\u2019s really beautiful.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Thank you, Jesus. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Howard: I think grace\u2014we talk to older marrieds; we call them \u201cSkyscraper Couples,\u201d marriages that are 50, 40, even 30 years.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Honey, this is us! We\u2019re a Skyscraper Couple! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Howard: So, you guys are a Skyscraper Couple, right?<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: You have become savvy.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: 43 years.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Look at you guys!<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Look at that.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: 40 stories tall. So, when we talk to these couples, everybody always asks, \u201cWhat\u2019s the secret? What\u2019s the secret?\u201d I remember one lady; she stood out to me because she said, \u201cWell, the secret to me in a long marriage for us is not that you\u2019re perfect, but you become professional forgivers. The longest marriages you have, they\u2019ve forgiven more than a short marriage for sure, right? Everybody needs space for grace.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>What we love about grace is, it\u2019s an intentional thing. It\u2019s like a gift that we give. Sometimes, when we ask for forgiveness and we say we\u2019re sorry, it\u2019s like pain; it has a negative connotation. It\u2019s painful to have to forgive somebody that\u2019s harmed you. So, when Danielle and I began in our marriage, Danielle would say, \u201cWell, I look at you how Christ looks at you now.\u201d Right? I needed my fair share of grace.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cBut I see you through the eyes of how Christ sees you,\u201d and I began to return that to her. When we thought about Christ\u2014we are messed up; not just us. [Laughter] Adam, the children of Israel\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Everybody.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Everybody throughout the Bible really needed a great measure of grace. So, it\u2019s almost appalling that I not be able to return. I\u2019m so thankful that\u2014all of us are so grateful that Christ\u2014paid it all on Calvary. He did it all on Easter Sunday. We were talking about that out there. But then, when we get in the car with our spouse and they do something wrong, we\u2019re not willing to offer them that same Christlike sacrifice, where He takes pleasure in gracing us and covering our sins.<\/p>\n<p>It says, \u201cLove covers a multitude of sins.\u201d These types of things we begin to relish in, because it makes us feel more Christ-centered, more attached to the Savior that we serve, the reason why we call ourselves \u201cChristian.\u201d Those things come in grace. Finally, there\u2019s the Scripture that says everybody can love somebody that\u2019s good to them.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Everybody can do that. What effort does that take? But what Christ challenges us to do [is] \u201cLove those that despitefully use us,\u201d those who do wrong. I can apply that to a coworker. It\u2019s very difficult to say that my wife is the one that despitefully used me in this season, or \u201cMy husband is the one that wronged me.\u201d Christ is challenging us to love them through that season as well, because we all know marriage has peaks and valleys. I don\u2019t care who you are.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Now did you guys ever have\u2014we were joking earlier. There were seasons in our marriage where we weren\u2019t very grace-giving.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, I was awful.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Well, sure.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Terrible.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You had that?<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Absolutely; absolutely. When we first got married, our communication was so, so, so, so, so bad. We were tearing each other apart; we were using our words as a weapon, very short and judgmental, unrealistic expectations.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: All of those things, absolutely. As different things have come along we\u2019ve had\u2014like a failed business, where it\u2019s kind of like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Howard: You could easily play the blame game.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: You could easily play the blame game. We lost our child; you could easily play the blame game there. A lot of people have fallen apart because of things like that. Yes, we needed grace so much more, probably more than ever during those times.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Talk to us about walking through that battle with your child.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Oh, it was such a sad situation.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was so sad when I read that.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: When Howard and I got together, we were virgins for four years. We were college graduates, Christian. We just felt like, \u201cWe\u2019re doing this thing the right way.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cAnd God\u2019s going to bless us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Howard: For sure, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: \u201cAnd God\u2019s going to bless us.\u201d We deliberately held off for eight or nine years so we could save up the money and just really bring this child in right. So, we felt like, \u201cOh, our measure of success and the worth of what we\u2019re doing is going to make us exempt from any type of bad news.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Howard: For sure.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Fast forward: I go into labor early, the baby is delivered, he lives for four days, and we\u2019re like, \u201cThis is not supposed to happen.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: How early was he?<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: 24 weeks.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Ahhh.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Danielle had an incompetent cervix and didn\u2019t know it. So her cervix just thinned out, and unfortunately, we found ourselves in a turbulent situation in the hospital one day with this baby that we had planned for, saved for, prayed for, had vision for; he was coming, and we tried to pray it away, and it wasn\u2019t going away.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Our baby was coming, and he came, and we tried to pray his life into longevity. That wasn\u2019t going to be the outcome, but that baby\u2014we call him our angel baby\u2014Harper passed away, and really threw us into a spiritual spiral for sure.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What did that look like?<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: We started going to prayer pretty immediately after. Our church had a chapel that was open for prayer, but we just felt like God had abandoned us, had disappointed us, let us down. It was like, \u201cHow could You do that to people that are doing it the right way?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: \u201cWhat kind of God would do that?\u201d That\u2019s what I thought at the time, right? \u201cLord, I\u2019m just laying it all out, because You need to know\u2014I mean I know You know my thoughts and my heart, but You need to know, I need to say out loud--.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Howard felt like he couldn\u2019t hear from God. He couldn\u2019t talk to God.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: I was working at that time; Danielle was off of work and so, it threw me into a spiral. I would say, for the first time in my life, I didn\u2019t know what to say to God. I didn\u2019t particularly feel like I was hearing from Him anymore. I just was shut. It was a very silent, quiet season. At that time, I remember just feeling like, \u201cGod, where are You? What are the answers?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But God met us. You know, one of the things we did, and I thank God for this, because we had a strong spiritual foundation\u2014and we mentioned this\u2014that strong spiritual foundation allowed Danielle and I to trust each other with prayer, trust each other with our sorrow. We didn\u2019t turn away from each other, because we had prayed during our courtship and dating period. We had prayed through our eight years prior to having that boy.<\/p>\n<p>So, when we didn\u2019t know what to do, we almost by muscle memory leaned on each other and prayer. So, when she was complaining I would say, \u201cWell, babe, the Scripture says,\u201d and when I\u2019m complaining like, \u201cWhat is going on?\u201d she\u2019s tapping into her Scripture bank. When we\u2019re just sorrowful and crying and sitting there in silence, we were living on this foundation of \u201cBut God,\u201d but [we] didn\u2019t know it.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: By knowing that God, sacrificing His Son for us, basically said, \u201cHoward, I know exactly\u2014\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: \u201cWhat you\u2019re going through.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Howard: \u201cWhat you\u2019re going through. I\u2019ve been touched in the same way that you\u2019ve been touched, and Harper ultimately is My child. Out of sovereignty I protected you, I protected Danielle from things you will not know, but ultimately this testimony will be used to encourage others, and I trusted you guys to\u2014\"<\/p>\n<p>You know the Scripture in Job, where he says, \u201cThough He slay me, yet will I trust Him.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThough you\u2019re slayed, it doesn\u2019t\u2019 mean I don\u2019t have a plan. So I\u2019m sovereign, trust Me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And He spoke to Danielle similarly.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What did that look like for you, Danielle?<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Well, when I was crying out to God saying, \u201cYou don\u2019t know how I feel. What type of God would do this? You say that You love me. How dare You, God?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So you\u2019re expressing everything. You\u2019re laying it out.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Oh, yes; yes. Leading up to this, I was one of those people that I felt like I couldn\u2019t sense God speaking. I would hear people say it, but it\u2019s like, \u201cThat\u2019s never happened. Is it audible? Is it this? Is it that?\u201d I would tell Him. But when I was out praying at the chapel, God said what Howard said, \u201cNo, I do know how you feel. I lost My only Son for you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Gave Him.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: \u201cGave Him, yes, for you, for your sake. So, I know how you feel.\u201d And He said some other things and reminded me about how busy I was and God trying to get my attention for things. So that day, I felt like was the first day I actually heard God speak to me in my spirit, but then I kept going to chapel. We decided after that we\u2019re not having any kids.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Yes. We were really\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: We tried. It did not work out.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Too painful.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Yes, we were in pity party mode, like \u201cit\u2019s over.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: It was so painful, because even our families were impacted heavily. We were like, \u201cThis is too much for everybody. It\u2019s too much for us, for sure. It\u2019s too much for everybody else. We tried; it didn\u2019t work out. Let\u2019s just move on with our wonderful lives without any kids.\u201d So at chapel, maybe two weeks after all this, God led me to Genesis, and He said, \u201cAt this time next year you will have a son.\u201d [Laughter] I read it like, \u201cNo. No way.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: So that was maybe October, and we had a son the next year, October 21st.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Weston. Weston Harper II.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Yes. But God did teach me\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Howard: \u2014the Restorer.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: \u2014about His sovereignty. He reminded me about \u201cYour works are like filthy rags. Just because you look good on paper does not determine My hand. I am God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: I was like, \u201cOh. Okay. Got it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m always amazed as you\u2019re talking\u2014that foundation. We\u2019ve talked about that a lot in the last two days of being in God\u2019s Word, of praying together, of knowing Who He is and going back to the foundation. Had you not had that\u2014if you guys didn\u2019t go to God, if you didn\u2019t pour out your heart, what would you be like right now?<\/p>\n<p>Howard: I don\u2019t know if we would even be together, to be candidly honest. Grief is something. Grief is jarring in many ways. What we\u2019ve found through coaching couples through grief\u2014God has used our testimony and allowed us to coach couples through grief\u2014is, when you go through grief people want answers.<\/p>\n<p>A lot of the answers are unexplained. Why do bad things happen to good people is what you often find through grief and mourning. What we find is couples turn away from each other for those answers.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: And then couples do not depend\u2014this is, I think, probably the biggest thing with spiritual foundation\u2014they don\u2019t know each other spiritually enough to trust each other with their vulnerabilities. So, if Danielle and I had never prayed with each other, read Scripture to understand\u2014she studies her Word and I study my Word\u2014you don\u2019t have the rapport to pull each other through those types of moments spiritually.<\/p>\n<p>Sometimes we\u2019ve found that couples lean on the pastor and resent their husband, because he doesn\u2019t empathize with the pain the way the pastor is able to, because they don\u2019t have any spiritual connection. \u201cMy spiritual connection has always been with my under Shepherd, the pastor.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vice versa, they lean on coworkers. \u201cShe really gets my pain, and she\u2019s there as a listening voice, and my wife is just closed down and shut off and won\u2019t talk.\u201d So they begin to seek a spiritual connection and external influences that just bring a big crack in the foundation, and it turns into a valley in the foundation, and they don\u2019t know how to find their way back.<\/p>\n<p>So, prior to life happening\u2014 because life is going to happen to everybody; it\u2019s going to happen if you live long enough. Prior to that, it is critical that you begin to lay a solid foundation. It\u2019s building your house on rock so that, when it gets windy and when the storms blow and when the rain hits, for that was our storm\u2014and we\u2019ve had plenty of them\u2014you know how to put your raincoat on together. You know how to dig into the trenches. You know how to cover each other even though the wind\u2019s blowing. Why? Because you have a foundation that\u2019s built on rock. And if we had not had that, we would have been on sinking sand for sure. So, from when we started dating at 18 and 19 and started praying, that saved us\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: \u2014for 12 years later when we couldn\u2019t foresee we would lose our son. So it\u2019s critical. It is not passive to think that you cannot pray, read the Word, and build a spiritual intimate connection. It\u2019s critical.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What about the couple who has never done that, and they\u2019ve been married maybe 20 or 30 years, but they\u2019ve never had that foundation? How do you coach couples? Where do they start, especially if one says, \u201cHey, let\u2019s do this,\u201d and the other says, \u201cWait. What?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: I think you should start by having that conversation about what levels of comfort you both have with praying, because sometimes people are not comfortable praying out loud. They are not comfortable talking about what the true prayer requests of their heart are. So, I think talking about what they\u2019re comfortable with, and then just starting with no pressure; it\u2019s just light and easy.<\/p>\n<p>It doesn\u2019t have to be significant. You don\u2019t need to use big words. It doesn\u2019t have to be long and perfect. You just take time, take turns, maybe \u201cPray for me. I\u2019ll pray for you. Is there anything on your mind? Anything bothering you? Do you mind if I pray?\u201d Getting that agreement with each other: \u201cHey, does this work for you?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: And even if the other person says, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be a part of it,\u201d that doesn\u2019t mean the initial spouse can\u2019t pray for them. You can still pray in your quiet time alone, and I think over time that will encourage them. I think God will work on their heart and soften their heart to be part of it.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: And there\u2019s safety in a multitude of counselors, so get a mentorship couple or somebody that you admire, one of the Skyscraper Couples that we talk about.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Hey, they can tune in and listen to you guys. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Howard: For sure, absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And FamilyLife Today<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Bring resources into your life that help. The reason why our book is a workbook is because there\u2019s a lot of practical application things in that book to help you begin to introduce and take baby steps towards building on your communication, whether It\u2019s just life application studies, discussion questions. They help you, because building on any type of relationship, even if it\u2019s physical, starts with baby steps.<\/p>\n<p>It may just be, \u201cLet\u2019s say grace. We don\u2019t ever say grace.\u201d That may grow into, \u201cWell, let\u2019s just read a chapter of the Bible together. Let\u2019s read a Scripture and talk about that. What do you think about that Scripture? I don\u2019t know what in the world they\u2019re talking about. What do you think?\u201d Having these little conversations just builds connections, you know?<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s like, if you want to introduce your wife to sports or your wife wants to introduce you to sewing, or whatever it is, at first it\u2019s jarring, like \u201cSports? I don\u2019t ever watch sports.\u201d But it may just take one article or one story or one project to make the person start to empathize with, \u201cWell, I can see why you like that.\u201d Today, I would say, \u201cThere\u2019s really no pressure but it really should be baby steps.\u201d Don\u2019t try to swallow the whole Bible and feel like you have to be a pastor or go to seminary. Pick a Scripture and say, \u201cWhat does John 3:16 even mean to you? We both go to church, but what do you think about that Scripture? Do you even get it?\u201d Talk about it.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I like that; I like just the honesty before God.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Is that something you guys do on a daily basis? You have two boys.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Oh, man.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You have a busy life. Most couples, even in the church, don\u2019t do this. They may go to church together.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Maybe.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Actually, the statistics say they go to church together maybe once a month\u2014that\u2019s 1.3 times a month now\u2014is sort of normal for the average Christian couple in America.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Wow. Sure.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You guys are talking about something totally different than most couples do. So, the baby step would look like what? Because I know you guys\u2014what? Do you pray every day? You read the Scripture every day? What would you tell a couple is a baby step? Just maybe start praying?Danielle: Yes, start praying. Or like Howard said, just take one Scripture. Sign up for the Bible app.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, it\u2019s easy.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: It\u2019s easy. They\u2019re applicable, like daily reading plans that people could hop on that aren\u2019t super\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, the Bible app. We were driving here today, and Ann got on me because I\u2019m ten days behind her in the Bible app. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Howard: You can see it. What great accountability! Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: She said, \u201cHey, you should be up with me!\u201d I said, \u201cYou\u2019re so fast. I\u2019m ten days behind.\u201d I wanted to talk about Ruth. I read about Ruth and Boaz today. She said, \u201cOh, that was ten days ago. I don\u2019t want to talk about it.\u201d [Laughter] That was on the way into the studio today.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I wanted to talk about David hiding from Saul. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But I mean, that very conversation shows we\u2019re in the Word.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We\u2019re joking. We will talk about it tonight.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But that foundation\u2014you call it \u201cthe secret stability.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Howard: The secret stability. You have to be intentional about it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Couples are very intentional about many things. Sometimes you find that in marriage you might have to be intentional about a date night. We have jobs, we have careers, we have kids, so every other Friday we\u2019re going on a date, right? You may have to be intentional about finances. \u201cHey, listen, we\u2019re trying to save X over X amount of time. We\u2019re really going to have to not go to the movies as much,\u201d right? Or whatever it is, there\u2019s intention there.<\/p>\n<p>And spiritual intimacy is the same. It comes from intention, and that intention may be that we\u2019re going to read the book of Ruth. Proverbs, we always say, is a great one for any couple. If you\u2019re listening, read the book of Proverbs. There are 31 chapters, there are typically 31 days in a month; and just go through one chapter. There\u2019s so much conventional wisdom in there, you\u2019ll leave with something to talk about.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Every day. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Every single day. And I would say, spiritually, it\u2019s a \u201cfunner\u201d read, so if you\u2019re starting out on a foundation, you don\u2019t want to start out with the book of Revelation, right? You might not want to start out with Deuteronomy. But Proverbs\u2014I would challenge couples to take one Proverb and just read it, and don\u2019t feel like you have to even discuss it or exegete it or any of that stuff. Just talk about it. Talk about it on a Friday night.<\/p>\n<p>Talk about it on a Monday morning on your way to work. You don\u2019t have to talk about it every day, per se. Sometimes that\u2019s intense for people. You eat an elephant one bite at a time. As you get excited about it, all of a sudden, you\u2019ll start to realize that your husband or wife [will say]: \u201cYou have a great perspective I didn\u2019t think about on the faith.\u201d Then you talk to your mentors about it, and they may add some perspective on the faith.<\/p>\n<p>Or you hear that message on the Sunday that you go once a month, and the pastor\u2019s talking about the same thing we were reading. It excites you about your spiritual intimate growth, but it starts out as an infant. It\u2019s going to fall; you\u2019re going to crawl; it\u2019s going to spit up sometimes, like anything in life, so don\u2019t place teenage or adult expectations on an infant growth process for spiritual intimacy. And watch it blossom.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good. I would add, too, to pray. Just be honest with God.<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You can say, \u201cGod, we don\u2019t even know what we\u2019re doing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cWe want to know You. And we\u2019re going to do our best to get to know You.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: And He\u2019ll meet you there.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cHelp us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Howard: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: He meets us, just [in] that relationship.<\/p>\n<p>Danielle: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Howard and Danielle Taylor on FamilyLife Today. Howard and Danielle have written a book called The Fundamentals of Marriage: Eight Essential Practices of Successful Couples. In that book, each chapter kind of presents a short reading, a personal reflection, some discussion questions, different perspectives whether you\u2019re a husband or a wife, and then case studies highlighting real stories from real couples.<\/p>\n<p>You can pick up a copy of that book at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329. Again that number is 800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d And if you want to communicate with us via snail mail, feel free to drop us something in the mail at FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, Florida 32832. We\u2019d love to hear from you.<\/p>\n<p>I know that some of you have actually already been to a Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage getaway, but we just wanted to make sure that you\u2019ve heard there is a lot that has changed in the Weekend to Remember. We have a new speaker lineup, an entirely different Guidebook, and so much of the getaway has been changed and intentionally curated for you and your spouse to grow together.<\/p>\n<p>So, right now would be a good time to head back to a Weekend to Remember. Now through September 18th, registration is 50 percent off. You can find a date and location that works for you at WeekendtoRemember.com. Again, that\u2019s WeekendtoRemember.com. Head over there and find a date that works for you and your spouse.<\/p>\n<p>Now, coming up next week, Dave and Ann Wilson are going to be joined in the studio by Bryan and Stephanie Carter. They\u2019re going to talk about the challenges of being a pastor\u2019s wife and the importance of the leave and cleave process in the marriage, discussed along with the significance of prayer and facing challenges together. That\u2019s next week. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/280444","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=280444"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280866"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=280444"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=280444"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=280444"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=280444"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=280444"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=280444"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}