{"id":280432,"date":"2023-09-26T09:15:00","date_gmt":"2023-09-26T13:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/dating-done-right-sean-perron-spencer-harmon\/"},"modified":"2025-05-06T16:39:16","modified_gmt":"2025-05-06T20:39:16","slug":"dating-done-right-sean-perron-spencer-harmon","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/dating-done-right-sean-perron-spencer-harmon\/","title":{"rendered":"Dating Done Right: Sean Perron &#038; Spencer Harmon"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>You&#8217;re dating\u2014but man, do things get sticky. Authors Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon help you approach marriage on purpose, and done right.<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p><strong fetchpriority=\"high\"><em>One of the things you have to think about with purity is, why are you doing it? Why? And if the motive is, \u201cI am doing this so that my honeymoon will be amazing,\u201d you will be disappointed. Because your category of amazing is probably not calibrated according to God&#8217;s Word. &#8212; Spencer Harmon<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>You&#8217;re dating\u2014but man, do things get sticky. Authors Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon help you approach marriage on purpose, and done right. One of the things you have to think about with purity is, why are you doing it? Why? And if the motive is, \u201cI am&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280866,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/34a069e7-6d82-49e7-83aa-b154011da8d5\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:45","filesize":"27.27M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2023-09-26 09:15:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[],"tags":[2243],"podcast_series":[8679],"cwp_profile":[9893,9894],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-280432","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","tag-how-to-date","podcast_series-relationships-done-right-sean-perron-and-spencer-harmon","cwp_profile-sean-perron","cwp_profile-spencer-harmon","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/280432\/dating-done-right-sean-perron-spencer-harmon","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/280432\/dating-done-right-sean-perron-spencer-harmon","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"obD6h3EFUH\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/dating-done-right-sean-perron-spencer-harmon\/\">Dating Done Right: Sean Perron &#038; Spencer Harmon<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/dating-done-right-sean-perron-spencer-harmon\/embed\/#?secret=obD6h3EFUH\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Dating Done Right: Sean Perron &#038; Spencer Harmon&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"obD6h3EFUH\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["MS-012699"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/34a069e7-6d82-49e7-83aa-b154011da8d5\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:29:45"],"filesize":["27.27M"],"_thumbnail_id":["280866"],"show_notes":["<p>Check out more from Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon at <a href=\"https:\/\/unspokenblog.com\/\">unspokenblog.com<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/unspokenblog.com\/2017\/06\/19\/sharing-your-sexual-history\/\">Learn how to share of your sexual history<\/a> with a new romantic interest.<br \/>\nLearn more about Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon's church First Baptist Jacksonville<a href=\"https:\/\/fbcjax.com\/category\/first-thoughts\/\"> ..and discover their writings<\/a><br \/>\nIf you're interested in hearing more from Sean and Spencer, listen to their <a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/user-677188395\">Unspoken Blogs podcast<\/a><br \/>\nPurchase Sean and Spencer's books: <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/letters-to-a-romantic-on-dating\/\">Letters to a Romantic: On Dating<\/a>,<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/letters-to-a-romantic-on-engagement\/\">Letters to a Romantic: On Engagement,<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/letters-to-a-romantic-first-years-of-marriage\/\">Letters to a Romantic: First Years of Marriage<\/a><br \/>\nFind resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><br \/>\nFind more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<br \/>\nHelp others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<br \/>\nCheck out all the FamilyLife podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/p>\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-09-26.pdf"],"transcript_content":["<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>Dating Done Right<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Relationships Done Right (Day 1 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:September 26, 2023<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: One of the things you have to think about with purity is, why are you doing it? Why? And if the motive is, \u201cI am doing this so that my honeymoon will be amazing,\u201d you will be disappointed.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Because your category of amazing is probably not calibrated according to God\u2019s Word.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife\u00ae app.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Today, we\u2019ve got two experts. [Laughter] I guess we could call you guys experts. We\u2019ve got Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon in the studio, who\u2019ve written a book! Two guys who are really good friends and work at the same church wrote a book on dating and engagement, and we\u2019re going to talk tomorrow about marriage.<\/p>\n<p>So, welcome guys! You\u2019ve never been on FamilyLife Today, have you?<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Glad to be here.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Thanks for having us!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Tell me you\u2019ve listened to it!<\/p>\n<p>Sean: I have. It\u2019s true.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: We have!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Alright. Tell us it\u2019s the most amazing thing you\u2019ve ever heard.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: I\u2019ve never heard anything better.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, okay! That\u2019s what I thought.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s right!<\/p>\n<p>Sean: I wake up in the morning to my alarm clock now\u2014[Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And it\u2019s okay to lie when you\u2019re on this show. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s alright. Tell our listeners a little bit\u2014I mentioned you work in the same church.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Both married; you\u2019ve got kids. Give us your story.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes, I have been married to my wife Taylor\u2014we just celebrated nine years. We\u2019ve got four kids. We have an eight-year-old, a six-year-old, a three-year-old, and a one-year-old.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Whoa!<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: So, I like to joke that our life is this peaceful Thomas Kincaide painting. [Laughter] No, just kidding!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I don\u2019t think so.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes, I\u2019ve been in pastoral ministry now for about eight years, and I just finished my fourth year at First Baptist. That\u2019s where Sean and I serve together: First Baptist Church, Jacksonville. We\u2019ve been friends since 2009.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Too long. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: We went to college together\u2014we went to college together, and [we] have been friends for a really long time now. These books are just the fruit of our friendship and walking through these seasons of life at the same time and talking about how to apply God\u2019s Word to these times of our life that were really relevant.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: My wife and I met in high school. We didn\u2019t date in high school, but that\u2019s where we met. We\u2019ve been married now for a little over 11 years, and we have three kids: a four-year-old, a two-year-old, and then, one who\u2019s on the way. We\u2019re very excited about that. We don\u2019t know the gender; we\u2019re going to be surprised.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: These three books I\u2019m holding in my hand: Letters to a Romantic on Dating, [Letters to a Romantic] on Engagement, and [Letters to a Romantic] on Marriage. Where did these come from, and why \u201cletters to a romantic\u201d?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Which isn\u2019t typical of two guys that are friends, writing these books. It\u2019s pretty unique.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes, a few things; we were in these seasons when we were in Bible College, in seminary; and we wanted to have these\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Basically, it started as a blog originally. We wanted to document: \u201cOkay, we\u2019re not just soaking up wisdom that we\u2019ve received from godly men and women, and that we\u2019ve been reading in the Bible. We want to help others. We want to help others in the season that we\u2019re currently in.\u201d Because a lot of the advice that you get comes from great, godly couples who are decades removed.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, right.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Decades removed. We thought, \u201cYou know what? We\u2019re in it. We\u2019re digesting it. We\u2019re walking through it. We want to share that.\u201d So, that was the genesis of the letters. The letters, we wanted to write in such a way that would be interesting to people; that they felt personal. We didn\u2019t just want them to be theology, ivory tower. We wanted them to be personal and relevant, and we also wanted them to be short and digestible, actually, for people to read them.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Sean: So, that was the letters concept; a different format that would catch people\u2019s attention, and it did. We\u2019re thankful.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, what are some of those?<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Oh, my goodness!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What are the things that were burning in your heart, that you thought, \u201cWe need to write about this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Okay, I\u2019ll throw out a few.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: And I\u2019d be interested to hear your list [Spencer].<\/p>\n<p>Physical boundaries; kissing, in particular. We took a controversial position on that. Breaking up; how to break up with someone. Should you break up with someone? Do you have a bad relationship? What makes a good relationship? Blame after a breakup. Those were all categories we were dealing with at the time.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Sexual history.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: What do you do if one of you is a virgin and the other of you isn\u2019t? What do you do\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sean: \u2014if you sin during the relationship?<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes, what do you do when you sin then? Should you break up?<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Should you get married if you cross the line physically? Thinking about, with the engagement book, how do you think about this brand-new set of parents that comes into your life, called your \u201cin-laws?\u201d How do you navigate conversations about that? And even\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We had all these questions!<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Oh, my goodness!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And there was nowhere to go.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: It\u2019s so relevant!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You\u2019re right! Somebody doesn\u2019t want somebody our age. \u201cCan you guys even remember that long ago?\u201d But you guys were just there.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And it\u2019s a different culture that you\u2019ve grown up in, too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, he just raised all these\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I know!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I guarantee\u2014here\u2019s what we\u2019ve got. We\u2019ve got singles listening.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But we also have parents of kids\u2014teenagers and above\u2014who are thinking, \u201cHow do I help my kids understand this whole thing?\u201d so you\u2019re talking to both crowds, at least.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: A lot of parents are listening.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But singles as well. You just mentioned one. Do you want to go there?<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Let\u2019s talk about kissing.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Sure! Sean wrote the chapter on kissing. Let me start with this: neither of us kissed our wife until the day we got married, okay? Christians disagree on this stuff, but we really think that this is wisdom. So, we knew we needed to write a chapter on this. Sean took it and gave seven reasons not to kiss.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I read them all.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That was brave of you, too, Sean.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So many women that I\u2019ve talked to\u2014younger women\u2014say, \u201cI don\u2019t want that to happen, because the first one could be super-awkward, and I don\u2019t want to be in front of all these people. It just feels like it\u2019s so wrong!\u201d So, I love that you\u2019re tackling this.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes; everyone thinks about it. Everyone wants to kiss the person that they\u2019re dating or engaged to, certainly. Everyone\u2019s thinking about it, but most people don\u2019t think that the Bible has anything to say about it.<\/p>\n<p>The Bible is super-relevant! One of the reasons, just to jump right in, is the Bible has a category of brother and sister. You are a brother and sister in Christ, and that is the category of relationship you\u2019re in unless you\u2019re married. When you\u2019re married, you\u2019re still brother and sister, but you just have this other covenantal relationship that the Bible talks about, where there is a sexual element to it. That sexual element is not intended ever to be the case for brothers and sisters in Christ. That\u2019s how the Bible presents it.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, 1 Timothy 5:2 says, \u201cTreat your sisters with absolute purity.\u201d So, if you would treat your sister that way\u2014your physical sister\u2014then those are the boundaries the Bible presents, the categories for how you should treat the person that you\u2019re not married to. You\u2019re still brother and sister in Christ. That\u2019s one example.<\/p>\n<p>Then, you get to other passages that talk about marriage to represent Jesus\u2019s life, death, and resurrection. In Ephesians 5, Jesus presents the bride \u201cspotless and without wrinkle or any such blemish.\u201d Well, if your goal, as the man in the relationship, is to reflect Jesus, and to present your bride without spot or wrinkle or any such blemish, then you want to pursue absolute purity. \u201cHow can I do everything I can to have absolute purity in my relationship?\u201d I think that is a good indicator that you should not kiss.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Let me tell you a story. The night before Taylor and I were married, we had our rehearsal dinner, and we took a walk together before we went home for the night. We both know we haven\u2019t kissed, and we both know that, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to kiss in front of 400 people. \u201cThis is the first kiss!\u201d So, we talked about it. We said, \u201cOkay, so we\u2019re not going to kiss right now, but let\u2019s just make sure that\u2014my head\u2019s going to go this way [Laughter], and your head\u2019s going to go that way, and then we\u2019ll move in. Does that sound good?\u201d We agreed to it before.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s a funny story, right? We talked about it, because we were sensitive to, \u201cHey, we\u2019re about to have our first kiss in front of a bunch of people, and we don\u2019t want it to be awkward.\u201d But let me say this: I have never met a couple who saved physical affection for marriage who said, \u201cYou know what? I really wish we would have kissed more when we were dating.\u201d I\u2019ve never met them; but I\u2019ve met a whole bunch of people who have said, after they get married, \u201cMan, we really went too far, and we had to untangle some stuff in our marriage after we\u2019d crossed all these boundaries we didn\u2019t want to break.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It's actually\u2014one of the things that Taylor and I talked about so much, because we wanted to kiss each other, okay? We were very much attracted to each other; but we talked about this concept of\u2014storing up pleasure for later. \u201cWe want to honor God in this season of our life, honor this biblical category of brother and sister. Then, we\u2019re going to trust God that He\u2019s going to bless this, because it\u2019s our desire to honor Him right now. We\u2019re going to store this up for later.\u201d And the Lord did bless that. We\u2019re so thankful. We kiss all the time now. [Laughter] And we\u2019re so thankful for it!<\/p>\n<p>I think it is something that, the way we talk about it in the book is, we really want couples to consider, because God really does value our holiness and our purity, especially in this season of dating. Very, very quickly, it goes in directions we don\u2019t want it to go, because it\u2019s meant to go somewhere! That\u2019s the way God designed it.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: And God cares more about our heart than He does our lips. What\u2019s most important is not that you just didn\u2019t, technically, kiss. Jenny and I both had previous relationships\u2014dating relationships, and we both kissed other people previously. The point is not that you\u2019d be a legalist or a Pharisee to say, \u201cOh, our lips didn\u2019t touch before we said our vows.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The point is, God wants us to draw near to Him, not just with our lips, but with our hearts first. When you do that, it becomes this great thing: \u201cYou know what? We don\u2019t need to kiss right now. We don\u2019t need to have any physical, romantic relationship before marriage. There\u2019s no need because our hearts are filled with love for each other, selflessly. Our hearts are filled with love for the Lord.\u201d The Lord does that when He changes the heart; but if you reverse it, and you start with your lips and then get to your heart, then you get all weird, and you don\u2019t honor God, ironically, because God cares about the heart.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You know, it\u2019s interesting. I\u2019ve never had this thought before, but in Luke 6:44-45\u2014you\u2019re probably familiar\u2014Jesus says your mouth (or your tongue or your words) is an overflow of your heart.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes, that\u2019s exactly it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019ve always preached, as a preacher, \u201cIf you want to change your words, you\u2019ve got to start with your heart.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It isn\u2019t [as if] I\u2019ve got to stop cursing or slandering God. He says, \u201cYou start with your heart.\u201d I\u2019ve never considered what you just said.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Maybe your lips are an overflow of your heart, even when it comes to kissing or sexual purity outside of marriage. It\u2019s an overflow.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But here\u2019s my question: what\u2019s the push back? Have you heard a lot?<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes, a lot!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wait, let me get to a little pushback.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, look at this! She wants to take over.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Because I\u2019ve talked to some women who\u2019ve grown up in the Purity Culture.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Some of what maybe wasn\u2019t said, but maybe what they heard was, \u201cHey, if you remain pure, God is just going to bless your physical relationship!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Then, their physical relationship\u2014they\u2019re thinking their honeymoon\u2019s going to be amazing!<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And it can be difficult or painful, and it doesn\u2019t just get better overnight. It can take a while. What would you guys say to those people who are saying, \u201cWait a minute! I thought this was going to be this amazing blessing physically, and it\u2019s really hard right now\u201d?<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes, I think you can tackle this two different ways. One of the things I want to say, and I\u2019m really sensitive to that, too, because we grew up at the height of Purity Culture, where some people felt like it was bait and switch.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: \u201cYou do this; you go to this banquet; you wear these rings, and everything about your marriage is going to be great!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: \u201cTrue love waits, and it\u2019s always amazing!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Here\u2019s the problem. Here\u2019s where I think\u2014and this is one of the corrections we were trying to make in our book\u2014one of the things you have to think about with purity is why are you doing it? Why? And if the motive is, \u201cI am doing this so that my honeymoon will be amazing,\u201d you will be disappointed.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Because your category of amazing is probably not calibrated according to God\u2019s Word. The reason we pursue purity is to honor God and to glorify Him\u2014to honor Him\u2014and because we believe that God\u2019s way truly is best. There actually are \u201cpleasures at God\u2019s right hand forevermore.\u201d So, the motive of a Christian\u2019s heart in all of life\u2014and we just seek to apply this in every area of relationships\u2014is, \u201cMy heart, first, is to honor Christ. He has loved me with incredible love. I\u2019m secure in Him. He has given me incredible promises.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I am going to now walk faithfully with Him, and He is my reward at the end of the day. He\u2019s my treasure. All these other blessings are additions that He does give to us, but the motive is there. And I think that was one of the missteps of the Purity Culture. It was often holding in front of you this marital reward that isn\u2019t always promised.<\/p>\n<p>I mean, you can get married and be on your way to your awesome honeymoon, and get into a car accident, and never be able to have sex. What then? Is Jesus still your treasure? I think that has to be the motive at the core of why we\u2019re doing these things.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It seems also that moral purity or sexual purity was the goal of purity, when the truth is, in Christ, I am already pure.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Amen!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I could be sexually pure and impure in other ways when I\u2019m only thinking about one area.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s part of it as well.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes, amen. It\u2019s a redefinition of pleasure. \u201cIf you want to save your life, you\u2019re going to lose it; but if you lose your life for My sake and the sake of the gospel, you\u2019ll find it.\u201d When your pleasure in sex is selfless\u2014it\u2019s \u2018I\u2019m going to delight the other person. I\u2019m going to put their desires first, all for the glory of God\u201d\u2014that\u2019s when you have joy. When you do that, then you\u2019re not worried about looking awkward on your wedding day, because that\u2019s not the goal. The goal is not for you to look awesome on your wedding day. [Laughter] The goal is for Jesus to look awesome, and for you to selflessly love the other person like Christ has loved you.<\/p>\n<p>If you have a strange and awkward wedding night\u2014we talk about preparing for your wedding night in the engagement book, but if you have a strange and awkward wedding night\u2014well, guess what? It\u2019s not about you!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You get a few more nights, too!<\/p>\n<p>Sean: That\u2019s right! You\u2019ve got a long time to go. [Laughter] And it\u2019s the Lord who you\u2019re trying to honor, and your joy is in serving your spouse; your joy is in serving them, not in being served.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What do you say to\u2014and I know you wrote about this, and I read it; you wrote several chapters on it\u2014\u201cOkay, that\u2019s been our goal,\u201d but they mess up, they blow it?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: They kiss.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: They kiss, or they go beyond that, and they violate their own barrier. What do you say to that? And I loved what you wrote!<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But I\u2019m just asking you to tell our listeners what you wrote.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes, what\u2019s most important is: do you have godly sorrow or worldly sorrow? Because that sorrow is centered on God Himself. Are you bummed that you messed up your boundary because, \u201cOh, man!\u201d (you now don\u2019t have a perfect score)? Are you bummed because you got caught? Are you bummed for some sort of worldly reason? Or are you bummed because, according to Psalm 51, \u201cAgainst You and You alone, O Lord, have I sinned\u201d? Are you bummed because you fear God?<\/p>\n<p>\u201cYou know what? I was sexually immoral. I did sin, and I\u2019ve broken God\u2019s heart, and I need His forgiveness.\u201d If that\u2019s at the center of it; if you want God\u2019s forgiveness, and you want to be made pure, you want clean hands and a pure heart, then God wants you to turn to Him. He will forgive you for anything you have done. He will forgive you right away, immediately. That\u2019s why Jesus died on the cross. He loves you!<\/p>\n<p>When you sin, that\u2019s when you need to run to Him. Most people hide when they sin. They mess up, then they go underground. God says, \u201cNo, I bled so that you can come to me and be forgiven.\u201d How someone\u2019s heart responds is a huge determiner in the relationship of whether or not it should make it, whether or not it will make it. It really shows, \u201cIs God the focus or not?<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes, one of the things that\u2019s true on most\u2014in every\u2014relationship, especially dating relationships, is everybody comes with a sexual history. Even people who are squeaky-clean virgins on their wedding night, they have a sexual history. Everyone has sinned sexually. Everybody is a sexual sinner.<\/p>\n<p>So, the question is, when you fall into sin or one of you is bringing more sexual baggage into the relationship with the other, \u201cWell, what do we do with our sin?\u201d What you do with your sin is what the Bible tells you to do with all of your sin! 1 John 1:9 [says], \u201cIf you confess your sin, He is faithful and just to forgive you of sin and to cleanse you of all unrighteousness.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>A lot of couples go into their marriage, their wedding night, with guilt. The question is, \u201cDoes the Bible have anything to say about that?\u201d \u201cOh, you were pure all of your life, and I wasn\u2019t! Are you better than me? Am I less than because of you?\u201d The answer to that question is, in Jesus Christ you\u2019re pure. God takes all of your dark sin, and He makes you white as snow. That\u2019s one of the\u2014not everybody has a white wedding dress on their wedding day, but one of the\u2014symbols of a white wedding dress is this picture of the Church being presented to Jesus as a bride without spot or blemish.<\/p>\n<p>The reality is that when two Christians get married to each other, they are getting married to each other in Jesus Christ, and they are forgiven; they are accepted; they are made clean. And that applies to their sexual history. One of the things that we have to do as believers is to say, \u201cHow will I think about my past? Will I think about my past according to my understanding and the way I\u2019m going to interpret reality, or the way some other person interprets reality? Or will I remember my past the way God remembers my past?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The way God remembers my past, if I\u2019ve put my faith in Christ, and if I\u2019ve repented of my sins, is, He remembers my past in Christ. which means without spot or wrinkle or blemish. When a couple believes that\u2014and they may have the most complex, complicated, tangled up, crazy sexual story; I\u2019ve watched it as a pastor, first-hand\u2014they can enter into the marriage bed together for the first time pure in Christ! That\u2019s the beauty of the gospel, and that\u2019s the foundation of marriage.<\/p>\n<p>What we\u2019re seeking to do in these books is to say, \u201cLet\u2019s put the gospel of Jesus Christ, and His grace, and His love, right in the middle of dating, engagement, and marriage. Let\u2019s see what happens as we apply it to every single issue practically.\u201d And where it really lands home is in some of those serious areas of our sexual sin.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was just thinking of myself as a 19-year-old about to get married. I grew up with pornography in my background because the family had it around. I grew up with sexual abuse. I lost my virginity at 15, and then I become a Chistian. Now, I\u2019m going to marry Dave, and we\u2019ve remained sexually pure with one another, but I did not feel pure at all. So, the words that you just spoke\u2014if I\u2019d had someone 32 years old say [that] to me. . .<\/p>\n<p>And I knew the gospel. I knew Jesus loved [me], and I thought, \u201cHe\u2019s forgiven me, but He doesn\u2019t see me as pure.\u201d You know, I think so many of us have such trashed backgrounds.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Things have been done to us, so we walk into a marriage thinking, \u201cOh, I\u2019m garbage. Jesus forgave me, but\u2014\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014\u201cI\u2019m dirty.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014\u201cI\u2019m dirty,\u201d yes. So, thank you for those words. It\u2019s a good reminder to all of us that, \u201cOh, the death and the resurrection of Christ makes us as white as snow.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Amen!<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: We\u2019ll hear more from Spencer in just a second about one thing the Purity Culture got wrong, but first, we need to see ourselves appropriately in light of the gospel to allow the truth to break through that consuming sense of darkness we have around ourselves, and agree with Jesus when Paul writes, \u201cThe old is gone. The new has come.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon on FamilyLife Today. You know, Sean and Spencer have written three books, and right now, when you give any amount to FamilyLife Today, you\u2019re going to receive a three-book bundle from the Letters to a Romantic collection by Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s Letters to a Romantic on Dating, [Letters to a Romantic] on Engagement, and then [Letters to a Romantic] on the First Years of Marriage. You might say, \u201cOh, I don\u2019t fit into those categories,\u201d but more than likely, you know someone who does. It could be a great gift that you could pass along to someone else. This whole book bundle is going to be our gift to you when you partner financially with us.<\/p>\n<p>You can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d And feel free to drop us something in the mail if you\u2019d like. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832.<\/p>\n<p>Now, if you know anyone who needs to hear conversations like the one you heard today, would you share it from wherever you get your podcasts? And while you\u2019re there, it could really help others learn about FamilyLife Today if you left us a review.<\/p>\n<p>Alright, here\u2019s Spencer with an appropriate view of the Purity Culture and one thing that culture got wrong:<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: One of the things that I think we missed in the Purity Culture movement a couple decades ago is, we missed the fact that Jesus, who instructs us, is also Jesus who forgives us when we fail His instructions.<\/p>\n<p>In the Purity Culture, you get this kind of movement [saying], \u201cHey, let\u2019s try to really honor God with our sexual purity.\u201d [Then] it\u2019s, \u201cWell, what if you don\u2019t? What happens then?\u201d People would go into hiding. So, we have to hold out both. \u201cThese are the real instructions and commands of Christ really relevant to this season of life.\u201d Let\u2019s honor those! Let\u2019s hold them up. And let\u2019s also hold up this gospel of grace when we do fail, saying, \u201cBring your sin into the light. You don\u2019t have to hide it. Let\u2019s talk about sex; let\u2019s talk about sin; let\u2019s talk about all these dimensions of romantic relationships with openness and honesty, because Jesus provides grace for us to both obey Him and to be forgiven by Him.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: And for couples who have sinned, and maybe they want to give up, saying, \u201cWell, it doesn\u2019t matter anymore!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cIt\u2019s too late now!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: That\u2019s unbiblical, too.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Because there\u2019s faith and repentance. Jesus, who saves you and changes you, will give you the power to then obey Him.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Don\u2019t give up! Instead, turn; repent. Put off the old, and put on the new; put off lust, and put on purity; put off sexual sin, and put on righteousness. God will empower you if you ask Him.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: He guarantees it!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, you guys said it all. I will just say to the listener who, maybe like Ann, has felt dirty\u2014maybe even right now you may be sitting with your boyfriend or girlfriend, or maybe you\u2019re in your first few years of marriage, and you\u2019re feeling like, \u201cI didn\u2019t adhere to God\u2019s standard,\u201d and you\u2019ve felt \u201cless than.\u201d I hope you hear what these guys just said.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: The truth of the gospel\u2014I think you did what Tim Keller has always said when he preaches. You say, \u201cHere\u2019s the standard from God\u2019s Word,\u201d then he says, \u201cMost people end there, and the preacher\u2019s done. People run out and say, \u2018I\u2019ve got to try as hard as I can to do it!\u2019\u201d He says, \u201cBefore they leave the room, you\u2019d better say, \u2018And you\u2019ll never be able to meet that standard\u2019.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cUnless you surrender to Christ.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cAnd He will give you the power to do it.\u201d And I just want to say to you who are listening: you can\u2019t do this! I can\u2019t do this. Christ has done this!<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: If you\u2019re struggling right now, I would say, together, get on your knees as a couple.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We did this!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: All the time.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And just say, \u201cI surrender. God, we can\u2019t do this, but we want to, and You can do it in us. We surrender our relationship to You. Do it in us, and we will follow You.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Praise God.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cAnd when we don\u2019t, we\u2019ll come back to the grace in the blood of Jesus, and we\u2019ll get up and do it right again.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Now, tomorrow, Dave and Ann Wilson are back again with Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon to talk about how dating should be purposeful. We need to evaluate the other person\u2019s faith, their love for Jesus, and [their] involvement in the church with intention of marriage. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n"],"_edit_lock":["1746564251:47000"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_6adff49cfedbdaa06082b2cc40196d5e14fa8e33":["\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Name\" type=\"name\"  required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Email\" type=\"email\" required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Website\" type=\"url\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Message\" type=\"textarea\" \/]"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_atts_6adff49cfedbdaa06082b2cc40196d5e14fa8e33":["a:17:{s:2:\"to\";s:29:\"margaret.coyle@familylife.com\";s:7:\"subject\";s:77:\"[FamilyLife - A Cru Ministry] Dating Done Right: Sean Perron & Spencer Harmon\";s:12:\"show_subject\";s:2:\"no\";s:6:\"widget\";i:0;s:14:\"block_template\";N;s:19:\"block_template_part\";N;s:2:\"id\";i:280432;s:18:\"submit_button_text\";s:6:\"Submit\";s:14:\"customThankyou\";s:0:\"\";s:21:\"customThankyouHeading\";s:26:\"Your message has been sent\";s:21:\"customThankyouMessage\";s:30:\"Thank you for your 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dating\u2014but man, do things get sticky. Authors Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon help you approach marriage on purpose, and done right. One of the things you have to think about with purity is, why are you doing it? Why? And if the motive is, \u201cI am...","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<p>Check out more from Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon at <a href=\"https:\/\/unspokenblog.com\/\">unspokenblog.com<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/unspokenblog.com\/2017\/06\/19\/sharing-your-sexual-history\/\">Learn how to share of your sexual history<\/a> with a new romantic interest.<br \/>\nLearn more about Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon's church First Baptist Jacksonville<a href=\"https:\/\/fbcjax.com\/category\/first-thoughts\/\"> ..and discover their writings<\/a><br \/>\nIf you're interested in hearing more from Sean and Spencer, listen to their <a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/user-677188395\">Unspoken Blogs podcast<\/a><br \/>\nPurchase Sean and Spencer's books: <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/letters-to-a-romantic-on-dating\/\">Letters to a Romantic: On Dating<\/a>,<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/letters-to-a-romantic-on-engagement\/\">Letters to a Romantic: On Engagement,<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/letters-to-a-romantic-first-years-of-marriage\/\">Letters to a Romantic: First Years of Marriage<\/a><br \/>\nFind resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><br \/>\nFind more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<br \/>\nHelp others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<br \/>\nCheck out all the FamilyLife podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/p>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-09-26.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>Dating Done Right<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Relationships Done Right (Day 1 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:September 26, 2023<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: One of the things you have to think about with purity is, why are you doing it? Why? And if the motive is, \u201cI am doing this so that my honeymoon will be amazing,\u201d you will be disappointed.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Because your category of amazing is probably not calibrated according to God\u2019s Word.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on the FamilyLife\u00ae app.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Today, we\u2019ve got two experts. [Laughter] I guess we could call you guys experts. We\u2019ve got Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon in the studio, who\u2019ve written a book! Two guys who are really good friends and work at the same church wrote a book on dating and engagement, and we\u2019re going to talk tomorrow about marriage.<\/p>\n<p>So, welcome guys! You\u2019ve never been on FamilyLife Today, have you?<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Glad to be here.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Thanks for having us!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Tell me you\u2019ve listened to it!<\/p>\n<p>Sean: I have. It\u2019s true.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: We have!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Alright. Tell us it\u2019s the most amazing thing you\u2019ve ever heard.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: I\u2019ve never heard anything better.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, okay! That\u2019s what I thought.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s right!<\/p>\n<p>Sean: I wake up in the morning to my alarm clock now\u2014[Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And it\u2019s okay to lie when you\u2019re on this show. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s alright. Tell our listeners a little bit\u2014I mentioned you work in the same church.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Both married; you\u2019ve got kids. Give us your story.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes, I have been married to my wife Taylor\u2014we just celebrated nine years. We\u2019ve got four kids. We have an eight-year-old, a six-year-old, a three-year-old, and a one-year-old.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Whoa!<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: So, I like to joke that our life is this peaceful Thomas Kincaide painting. [Laughter] No, just kidding!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I don\u2019t think so.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes, I\u2019ve been in pastoral ministry now for about eight years, and I just finished my fourth year at First Baptist. That\u2019s where Sean and I serve together: First Baptist Church, Jacksonville. We\u2019ve been friends since 2009.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Too long. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: We went to college together\u2014we went to college together, and [we] have been friends for a really long time now. These books are just the fruit of our friendship and walking through these seasons of life at the same time and talking about how to apply God\u2019s Word to these times of our life that were really relevant.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: My wife and I met in high school. We didn\u2019t date in high school, but that\u2019s where we met. We\u2019ve been married now for a little over 11 years, and we have three kids: a four-year-old, a two-year-old, and then, one who\u2019s on the way. We\u2019re very excited about that. We don\u2019t know the gender; we\u2019re going to be surprised.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: These three books I\u2019m holding in my hand: Letters to a Romantic on Dating, [Letters to a Romantic] on Engagement, and [Letters to a Romantic] on Marriage. Where did these come from, and why \u201cletters to a romantic\u201d?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Which isn\u2019t typical of two guys that are friends, writing these books. It\u2019s pretty unique.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes, a few things; we were in these seasons when we were in Bible College, in seminary; and we wanted to have these\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Basically, it started as a blog originally. We wanted to document: \u201cOkay, we\u2019re not just soaking up wisdom that we\u2019ve received from godly men and women, and that we\u2019ve been reading in the Bible. We want to help others. We want to help others in the season that we\u2019re currently in.\u201d Because a lot of the advice that you get comes from great, godly couples who are decades removed.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, right.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Decades removed. We thought, \u201cYou know what? We\u2019re in it. We\u2019re digesting it. We\u2019re walking through it. We want to share that.\u201d So, that was the genesis of the letters. The letters, we wanted to write in such a way that would be interesting to people; that they felt personal. We didn\u2019t just want them to be theology, ivory tower. We wanted them to be personal and relevant, and we also wanted them to be short and digestible, actually, for people to read them.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Sean: So, that was the letters concept; a different format that would catch people\u2019s attention, and it did. We\u2019re thankful.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, what are some of those?<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Oh, my goodness!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What are the things that were burning in your heart, that you thought, \u201cWe need to write about this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Okay, I\u2019ll throw out a few.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: And I\u2019d be interested to hear your list [Spencer].<\/p>\n<p>Physical boundaries; kissing, in particular. We took a controversial position on that. Breaking up; how to break up with someone. Should you break up with someone? Do you have a bad relationship? What makes a good relationship? Blame after a breakup. Those were all categories we were dealing with at the time.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Sexual history.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: What do you do if one of you is a virgin and the other of you isn\u2019t? What do you do\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sean: \u2014if you sin during the relationship?<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes, what do you do when you sin then? Should you break up?<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Should you get married if you cross the line physically? Thinking about, with the engagement book, how do you think about this brand-new set of parents that comes into your life, called your \u201cin-laws?\u201d How do you navigate conversations about that? And even\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We had all these questions!<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Oh, my goodness!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And there was nowhere to go.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: It\u2019s so relevant!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You\u2019re right! Somebody doesn\u2019t want somebody our age. \u201cCan you guys even remember that long ago?\u201d But you guys were just there.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And it\u2019s a different culture that you\u2019ve grown up in, too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, he just raised all these\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I know!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I guarantee\u2014here\u2019s what we\u2019ve got. We\u2019ve got singles listening.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But we also have parents of kids\u2014teenagers and above\u2014who are thinking, \u201cHow do I help my kids understand this whole thing?\u201d so you\u2019re talking to both crowds, at least.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: A lot of parents are listening.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But singles as well. You just mentioned one. Do you want to go there?<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Let\u2019s talk about kissing.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Sure! Sean wrote the chapter on kissing. Let me start with this: neither of us kissed our wife until the day we got married, okay? Christians disagree on this stuff, but we really think that this is wisdom. So, we knew we needed to write a chapter on this. Sean took it and gave seven reasons not to kiss.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I read them all.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That was brave of you, too, Sean.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So many women that I\u2019ve talked to\u2014younger women\u2014say, \u201cI don\u2019t want that to happen, because the first one could be super-awkward, and I don\u2019t want to be in front of all these people. It just feels like it\u2019s so wrong!\u201d So, I love that you\u2019re tackling this.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes; everyone thinks about it. Everyone wants to kiss the person that they\u2019re dating or engaged to, certainly. Everyone\u2019s thinking about it, but most people don\u2019t think that the Bible has anything to say about it.<\/p>\n<p>The Bible is super-relevant! One of the reasons, just to jump right in, is the Bible has a category of brother and sister. You are a brother and sister in Christ, and that is the category of relationship you\u2019re in unless you\u2019re married. When you\u2019re married, you\u2019re still brother and sister, but you just have this other covenantal relationship that the Bible talks about, where there is a sexual element to it. That sexual element is not intended ever to be the case for brothers and sisters in Christ. That\u2019s how the Bible presents it.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, 1 Timothy 5:2 says, \u201cTreat your sisters with absolute purity.\u201d So, if you would treat your sister that way\u2014your physical sister\u2014then those are the boundaries the Bible presents, the categories for how you should treat the person that you\u2019re not married to. You\u2019re still brother and sister in Christ. That\u2019s one example.<\/p>\n<p>Then, you get to other passages that talk about marriage to represent Jesus\u2019s life, death, and resurrection. In Ephesians 5, Jesus presents the bride \u201cspotless and without wrinkle or any such blemish.\u201d Well, if your goal, as the man in the relationship, is to reflect Jesus, and to present your bride without spot or wrinkle or any such blemish, then you want to pursue absolute purity. \u201cHow can I do everything I can to have absolute purity in my relationship?\u201d I think that is a good indicator that you should not kiss.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Let me tell you a story. The night before Taylor and I were married, we had our rehearsal dinner, and we took a walk together before we went home for the night. We both know we haven\u2019t kissed, and we both know that, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to kiss in front of 400 people. \u201cThis is the first kiss!\u201d So, we talked about it. We said, \u201cOkay, so we\u2019re not going to kiss right now, but let\u2019s just make sure that\u2014my head\u2019s going to go this way [Laughter], and your head\u2019s going to go that way, and then we\u2019ll move in. Does that sound good?\u201d We agreed to it before.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s a funny story, right? We talked about it, because we were sensitive to, \u201cHey, we\u2019re about to have our first kiss in front of a bunch of people, and we don\u2019t want it to be awkward.\u201d But let me say this: I have never met a couple who saved physical affection for marriage who said, \u201cYou know what? I really wish we would have kissed more when we were dating.\u201d I\u2019ve never met them; but I\u2019ve met a whole bunch of people who have said, after they get married, \u201cMan, we really went too far, and we had to untangle some stuff in our marriage after we\u2019d crossed all these boundaries we didn\u2019t want to break.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It's actually\u2014one of the things that Taylor and I talked about so much, because we wanted to kiss each other, okay? We were very much attracted to each other; but we talked about this concept of\u2014storing up pleasure for later. \u201cWe want to honor God in this season of our life, honor this biblical category of brother and sister. Then, we\u2019re going to trust God that He\u2019s going to bless this, because it\u2019s our desire to honor Him right now. We\u2019re going to store this up for later.\u201d And the Lord did bless that. We\u2019re so thankful. We kiss all the time now. [Laughter] And we\u2019re so thankful for it!<\/p>\n<p>I think it is something that, the way we talk about it in the book is, we really want couples to consider, because God really does value our holiness and our purity, especially in this season of dating. Very, very quickly, it goes in directions we don\u2019t want it to go, because it\u2019s meant to go somewhere! That\u2019s the way God designed it.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: And God cares more about our heart than He does our lips. What\u2019s most important is not that you just didn\u2019t, technically, kiss. Jenny and I both had previous relationships\u2014dating relationships, and we both kissed other people previously. The point is not that you\u2019d be a legalist or a Pharisee to say, \u201cOh, our lips didn\u2019t touch before we said our vows.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The point is, God wants us to draw near to Him, not just with our lips, but with our hearts first. When you do that, it becomes this great thing: \u201cYou know what? We don\u2019t need to kiss right now. We don\u2019t need to have any physical, romantic relationship before marriage. There\u2019s no need because our hearts are filled with love for each other, selflessly. Our hearts are filled with love for the Lord.\u201d The Lord does that when He changes the heart; but if you reverse it, and you start with your lips and then get to your heart, then you get all weird, and you don\u2019t honor God, ironically, because God cares about the heart.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You know, it\u2019s interesting. I\u2019ve never had this thought before, but in Luke 6:44-45\u2014you\u2019re probably familiar\u2014Jesus says your mouth (or your tongue or your words) is an overflow of your heart.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes, that\u2019s exactly it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019ve always preached, as a preacher, \u201cIf you want to change your words, you\u2019ve got to start with your heart.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It isn\u2019t [as if] I\u2019ve got to stop cursing or slandering God. He says, \u201cYou start with your heart.\u201d I\u2019ve never considered what you just said.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Maybe your lips are an overflow of your heart, even when it comes to kissing or sexual purity outside of marriage. It\u2019s an overflow.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But here\u2019s my question: what\u2019s the push back? Have you heard a lot?<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes, a lot!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wait, let me get to a little pushback.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, look at this! She wants to take over.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Because I\u2019ve talked to some women who\u2019ve grown up in the Purity Culture.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Some of what maybe wasn\u2019t said, but maybe what they heard was, \u201cHey, if you remain pure, God is just going to bless your physical relationship!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Then, their physical relationship\u2014they\u2019re thinking their honeymoon\u2019s going to be amazing!<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And it can be difficult or painful, and it doesn\u2019t just get better overnight. It can take a while. What would you guys say to those people who are saying, \u201cWait a minute! I thought this was going to be this amazing blessing physically, and it\u2019s really hard right now\u201d?<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes, I think you can tackle this two different ways. One of the things I want to say, and I\u2019m really sensitive to that, too, because we grew up at the height of Purity Culture, where some people felt like it was bait and switch.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: \u201cYou do this; you go to this banquet; you wear these rings, and everything about your marriage is going to be great!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: \u201cTrue love waits, and it\u2019s always amazing!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Here\u2019s the problem. Here\u2019s where I think\u2014and this is one of the corrections we were trying to make in our book\u2014one of the things you have to think about with purity is why are you doing it? Why? And if the motive is, \u201cI am doing this so that my honeymoon will be amazing,\u201d you will be disappointed.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Because your category of amazing is probably not calibrated according to God\u2019s Word. The reason we pursue purity is to honor God and to glorify Him\u2014to honor Him\u2014and because we believe that God\u2019s way truly is best. There actually are \u201cpleasures at God\u2019s right hand forevermore.\u201d So, the motive of a Christian\u2019s heart in all of life\u2014and we just seek to apply this in every area of relationships\u2014is, \u201cMy heart, first, is to honor Christ. He has loved me with incredible love. I\u2019m secure in Him. He has given me incredible promises.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I am going to now walk faithfully with Him, and He is my reward at the end of the day. He\u2019s my treasure. All these other blessings are additions that He does give to us, but the motive is there. And I think that was one of the missteps of the Purity Culture. It was often holding in front of you this marital reward that isn\u2019t always promised.<\/p>\n<p>I mean, you can get married and be on your way to your awesome honeymoon, and get into a car accident, and never be able to have sex. What then? Is Jesus still your treasure? I think that has to be the motive at the core of why we\u2019re doing these things.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It seems also that moral purity or sexual purity was the goal of purity, when the truth is, in Christ, I am already pure.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Amen!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I could be sexually pure and impure in other ways when I\u2019m only thinking about one area.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s part of it as well.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes, amen. It\u2019s a redefinition of pleasure. \u201cIf you want to save your life, you\u2019re going to lose it; but if you lose your life for My sake and the sake of the gospel, you\u2019ll find it.\u201d When your pleasure in sex is selfless\u2014it\u2019s \u2018I\u2019m going to delight the other person. I\u2019m going to put their desires first, all for the glory of God\u201d\u2014that\u2019s when you have joy. When you do that, then you\u2019re not worried about looking awkward on your wedding day, because that\u2019s not the goal. The goal is not for you to look awesome on your wedding day. [Laughter] The goal is for Jesus to look awesome, and for you to selflessly love the other person like Christ has loved you.<\/p>\n<p>If you have a strange and awkward wedding night\u2014we talk about preparing for your wedding night in the engagement book, but if you have a strange and awkward wedding night\u2014well, guess what? It\u2019s not about you!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You get a few more nights, too!<\/p>\n<p>Sean: That\u2019s right! You\u2019ve got a long time to go. [Laughter] And it\u2019s the Lord who you\u2019re trying to honor, and your joy is in serving your spouse; your joy is in serving them, not in being served.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What do you say to\u2014and I know you wrote about this, and I read it; you wrote several chapters on it\u2014\u201cOkay, that\u2019s been our goal,\u201d but they mess up, they blow it?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: They kiss.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: They kiss, or they go beyond that, and they violate their own barrier. What do you say to that? And I loved what you wrote!<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But I\u2019m just asking you to tell our listeners what you wrote.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes, what\u2019s most important is: do you have godly sorrow or worldly sorrow? Because that sorrow is centered on God Himself. Are you bummed that you messed up your boundary because, \u201cOh, man!\u201d (you now don\u2019t have a perfect score)? Are you bummed because you got caught? Are you bummed for some sort of worldly reason? Or are you bummed because, according to Psalm 51, \u201cAgainst You and You alone, O Lord, have I sinned\u201d? Are you bummed because you fear God?<\/p>\n<p>\u201cYou know what? I was sexually immoral. I did sin, and I\u2019ve broken God\u2019s heart, and I need His forgiveness.\u201d If that\u2019s at the center of it; if you want God\u2019s forgiveness, and you want to be made pure, you want clean hands and a pure heart, then God wants you to turn to Him. He will forgive you for anything you have done. He will forgive you right away, immediately. That\u2019s why Jesus died on the cross. He loves you!<\/p>\n<p>When you sin, that\u2019s when you need to run to Him. Most people hide when they sin. They mess up, then they go underground. God says, \u201cNo, I bled so that you can come to me and be forgiven.\u201d How someone\u2019s heart responds is a huge determiner in the relationship of whether or not it should make it, whether or not it will make it. It really shows, \u201cIs God the focus or not?<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes, one of the things that\u2019s true on most\u2014in every\u2014relationship, especially dating relationships, is everybody comes with a sexual history. Even people who are squeaky-clean virgins on their wedding night, they have a sexual history. Everyone has sinned sexually. Everybody is a sexual sinner.<\/p>\n<p>So, the question is, when you fall into sin or one of you is bringing more sexual baggage into the relationship with the other, \u201cWell, what do we do with our sin?\u201d What you do with your sin is what the Bible tells you to do with all of your sin! 1 John 1:9 [says], \u201cIf you confess your sin, He is faithful and just to forgive you of sin and to cleanse you of all unrighteousness.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>A lot of couples go into their marriage, their wedding night, with guilt. The question is, \u201cDoes the Bible have anything to say about that?\u201d \u201cOh, you were pure all of your life, and I wasn\u2019t! Are you better than me? Am I less than because of you?\u201d The answer to that question is, in Jesus Christ you\u2019re pure. God takes all of your dark sin, and He makes you white as snow. That\u2019s one of the\u2014not everybody has a white wedding dress on their wedding day, but one of the\u2014symbols of a white wedding dress is this picture of the Church being presented to Jesus as a bride without spot or blemish.<\/p>\n<p>The reality is that when two Christians get married to each other, they are getting married to each other in Jesus Christ, and they are forgiven; they are accepted; they are made clean. And that applies to their sexual history. One of the things that we have to do as believers is to say, \u201cHow will I think about my past? Will I think about my past according to my understanding and the way I\u2019m going to interpret reality, or the way some other person interprets reality? Or will I remember my past the way God remembers my past?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The way God remembers my past, if I\u2019ve put my faith in Christ, and if I\u2019ve repented of my sins, is, He remembers my past in Christ. which means without spot or wrinkle or blemish. When a couple believes that\u2014and they may have the most complex, complicated, tangled up, crazy sexual story; I\u2019ve watched it as a pastor, first-hand\u2014they can enter into the marriage bed together for the first time pure in Christ! That\u2019s the beauty of the gospel, and that\u2019s the foundation of marriage.<\/p>\n<p>What we\u2019re seeking to do in these books is to say, \u201cLet\u2019s put the gospel of Jesus Christ, and His grace, and His love, right in the middle of dating, engagement, and marriage. Let\u2019s see what happens as we apply it to every single issue practically.\u201d And where it really lands home is in some of those serious areas of our sexual sin.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was just thinking of myself as a 19-year-old about to get married. I grew up with pornography in my background because the family had it around. I grew up with sexual abuse. I lost my virginity at 15, and then I become a Chistian. Now, I\u2019m going to marry Dave, and we\u2019ve remained sexually pure with one another, but I did not feel pure at all. So, the words that you just spoke\u2014if I\u2019d had someone 32 years old say [that] to me. . .<\/p>\n<p>And I knew the gospel. I knew Jesus loved [me], and I thought, \u201cHe\u2019s forgiven me, but He doesn\u2019t see me as pure.\u201d You know, I think so many of us have such trashed backgrounds.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Things have been done to us, so we walk into a marriage thinking, \u201cOh, I\u2019m garbage. Jesus forgave me, but\u2014\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014\u201cI\u2019m dirty.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014\u201cI\u2019m dirty,\u201d yes. So, thank you for those words. It\u2019s a good reminder to all of us that, \u201cOh, the death and the resurrection of Christ makes us as white as snow.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Amen!<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: We\u2019ll hear more from Spencer in just a second about one thing the Purity Culture got wrong, but first, we need to see ourselves appropriately in light of the gospel to allow the truth to break through that consuming sense of darkness we have around ourselves, and agree with Jesus when Paul writes, \u201cThe old is gone. The new has come.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon on FamilyLife Today. You know, Sean and Spencer have written three books, and right now, when you give any amount to FamilyLife Today, you\u2019re going to receive a three-book bundle from the Letters to a Romantic collection by Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s Letters to a Romantic on Dating, [Letters to a Romantic] on Engagement, and then [Letters to a Romantic] on the First Years of Marriage. You might say, \u201cOh, I don\u2019t fit into those categories,\u201d but more than likely, you know someone who does. It could be a great gift that you could pass along to someone else. This whole book bundle is going to be our gift to you when you partner financially with us.<\/p>\n<p>You can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d And feel free to drop us something in the mail if you\u2019d like. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832.<\/p>\n<p>Now, if you know anyone who needs to hear conversations like the one you heard today, would you share it from wherever you get your podcasts? And while you\u2019re there, it could really help others learn about FamilyLife Today if you left us a review.<\/p>\n<p>Alright, here\u2019s Spencer with an appropriate view of the Purity Culture and one thing that culture got wrong:<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: One of the things that I think we missed in the Purity Culture movement a couple decades ago is, we missed the fact that Jesus, who instructs us, is also Jesus who forgives us when we fail His instructions.<\/p>\n<p>In the Purity Culture, you get this kind of movement [saying], \u201cHey, let\u2019s try to really honor God with our sexual purity.\u201d [Then] it\u2019s, \u201cWell, what if you don\u2019t? What happens then?\u201d People would go into hiding. So, we have to hold out both. \u201cThese are the real instructions and commands of Christ really relevant to this season of life.\u201d Let\u2019s honor those! Let\u2019s hold them up. And let\u2019s also hold up this gospel of grace when we do fail, saying, \u201cBring your sin into the light. You don\u2019t have to hide it. Let\u2019s talk about sex; let\u2019s talk about sin; let\u2019s talk about all these dimensions of romantic relationships with openness and honesty, because Jesus provides grace for us to both obey Him and to be forgiven by Him.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: And for couples who have sinned, and maybe they want to give up, saying, \u201cWell, it doesn\u2019t matter anymore!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cIt\u2019s too late now!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: That\u2019s unbiblical, too.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Because there\u2019s faith and repentance. Jesus, who saves you and changes you, will give you the power to then obey Him.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Don\u2019t give up! Instead, turn; repent. Put off the old, and put on the new; put off lust, and put on purity; put off sexual sin, and put on righteousness. God will empower you if you ask Him.<\/p>\n<p>Spencer: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sean: He guarantees it!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, you guys said it all. I will just say to the listener who, maybe like Ann, has felt dirty\u2014maybe even right now you may be sitting with your boyfriend or girlfriend, or maybe you\u2019re in your first few years of marriage, and you\u2019re feeling like, \u201cI didn\u2019t adhere to God\u2019s standard,\u201d and you\u2019ve felt \u201cless than.\u201d I hope you hear what these guys just said.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: The truth of the gospel\u2014I think you did what Tim Keller has always said when he preaches. You say, \u201cHere\u2019s the standard from God\u2019s Word,\u201d then he says, \u201cMost people end there, and the preacher\u2019s done. People run out and say, \u2018I\u2019ve got to try as hard as I can to do it!\u2019\u201d He says, \u201cBefore they leave the room, you\u2019d better say, \u2018And you\u2019ll never be able to meet that standard\u2019.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cUnless you surrender to Christ.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cAnd He will give you the power to do it.\u201d And I just want to say to you who are listening: you can\u2019t do this! I can\u2019t do this. Christ has done this!<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: If you\u2019re struggling right now, I would say, together, get on your knees as a couple.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We did this!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: All the time.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And just say, \u201cI surrender. God, we can\u2019t do this, but we want to, and You can do it in us. We surrender our relationship to You. Do it in us, and we will follow You.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sean: Praise God.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cAnd when we don\u2019t, we\u2019ll come back to the grace in the blood of Jesus, and we\u2019ll get up and do it right again.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Now, tomorrow, Dave and Ann Wilson are back again with Sean Perron and Spencer Harmon to talk about how dating should be purposeful. We need to evaluate the other person\u2019s faith, their love for Jesus, and [their] involvement in the church with intention of marriage. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/280432","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=280432"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280866"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=280432"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=280432"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=280432"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=280432"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=280432"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=280432"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}