{"id":280420,"date":"2023-10-12T09:15:00","date_gmt":"2023-10-12T13:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/god-sex-and-your-marriage-dr-juli-and-mike-slattery\/"},"modified":"2025-04-23T14:31:07","modified_gmt":"2025-04-23T18:31:07","slug":"god-sex-and-your-marriage-dr-juli-and-mike-slattery","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/god-sex-and-your-marriage-dr-juli-and-mike-slattery\/","title":{"rendered":"God, Sex, and Your Marriage: Dr. Juli and Mike Slattery"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>What if God gave us married sex as a picture of Himself? And how could your understanding of this picture revolutionize your sex life? Dr. Juli Slattery and her husband Mike explore mind-boggling truths of how, in an over-sexualized world, God&#8217;s ideas about sex are far more than we imagined.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em fetchpriority=\"high\"><strong>Covenant is a unique relationship that\u2019s based on a promise. It\u2019s not based on how you feel. It\u2019s not based on if you\u2019re attracted to someone. It\u2019s not based on if you\u2019re meeting each other\u2019s needs. That\u2019s a contract. A covenant is, \u201cI am promising to love you. I am promising to not leave you or forsake you.\u201d<\/strong><\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What if God gave us married sex as a picture of Himself? And how could your understanding of this picture revolutionize your sex life? Dr. Juli Slattery and her husband Mike explore mind-boggling truths of how, in an over-sexualized world, God&#8217;s ideas abo&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280866,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/7a351184-81ef-42c0-acd7-b154011d8935\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:11","filesize":"24.92M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2023-10-12 09:15:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[],"tags":[2232],"podcast_series":[8686],"cwp_profile":[3388,9895],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-280420","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","tag-god-and-sex","podcast_series-god-sex-and-your-marriage-dr-juli-and-mike-slattery","cwp_profile-juli-slattery","cwp_profile-mike-slattery","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/280420\/god-sex-and-your-marriage-dr-juli-and-mike-slattery","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/280420\/god-sex-and-your-marriage-dr-juli-and-mike-slattery","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"j8qFoRkyz4\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/god-sex-and-your-marriage-dr-juli-and-mike-slattery\/\">God, Sex, and Your Marriage: Dr. Juli and Mike Slattery<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/god-sex-and-your-marriage-dr-juli-and-mike-slattery\/embed\/#?secret=j8qFoRkyz4\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;God, Sex, and Your Marriage: Dr. Juli and Mike Slattery&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"j8qFoRkyz4\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["MS-012768"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/7a351184-81ef-42c0-acd7-b154011d8935\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:27:11"],"filesize":["24.92M"],"_thumbnail_id":["280866"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-10-12.pdf"],"transcript_content":["<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>God, Sex, and Your Marriage<\/p>\n<p>Guest:Dr. Juli and Mike Slattery<\/p>\n<p>From the series:God, Sex, and Your Marriage (Day 1 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:October 12, 2023<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Hey, Shelby Abbott here. Just want to give a heads up before you listen to this next program. Today\u2019s conversation on FamilyLife Today covers some sensitive but important subjects that might not be suitable for younger ears. So, please use discretion when listening to this next broadcast. Alright, now let\u2019s jump into it.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Covenant is a unique relationship that\u2019s based on a promise. It\u2019s not based on how you feel. It\u2019s not based on if you\u2019re attracted to someone. It\u2019s not based on if you\u2019re meeting each other\u2019s needs. That\u2019s a contract. A covenant is, \u201cI am promising to love you. I am promising to not leave you or forsake you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: As we travel around the country and do marriage conferences, it\u2019s changed.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, I would say it\u2019s changed.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, the audiences are the same, but there\u2019s something different. We used to talk about sex and couples would come up and smile and say, \u201cThank you.\u201d Now, they line up. They are hurt. They have wounds. They have trauma. They want to\u2013it feels like a long line of a lot of pain.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What\u2019s encouraging, Dave, is I feel like that trauma has probably always been there, but now they\u2019re starting to be willing to talk about it. And I think because of my own past with sexual abuse and not thinking that would even affect my marriage. Then, we get married (so many of us) where there\u2019s been some sort of trauma, and we don\u2019t even know what to do with it after we get married.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, and we need help. We\u2019ve got help in the studio today. Dr. Juli Slattery is back. You are someone that can help us. Welcome back.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Thanks so much for having me. It\u2019s always a joy to be here talking to friends.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Don\u2019t you feel like when Juli\u2019s with us, I come up with this list of things I want to talk to her about [Laughter] individually. Like, \u201cLet\u2019s talk to Juli about this!\u201d There are so many things, because she\u2019s wise; she\u2019s biblical. She has a lot of help, and she has a new book, too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, and you\u2019ve been talking and writing about sexuality for a long time. This new one is called, God, Sex, and Your Marriage. But before we even dig into it, you have four pillars in here of great sex, now who doesn\u2019t want to know what those are, right?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: They\u2019re saying, \u201cWait, wait, wait, wait. Don\u2019t skip that.\u201d We\u2019ll get to it; [Laughter] but talk about what we just mentioned: trauma. Is that something you\u2019re seeing as well compared to 30 years ago, or has that always been there?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: I think, Ann, what you said is true.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It\u2019s always\u2014?<\/p>\n<p>Juil: No, you just set her up so well.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s because Juli just told me about it on the walk back to the studio. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Is that true?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: No, she knew, she knew\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013it\u2019s always been there. Is that what you\u2019re\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2013it\u2019s always been there, yes.<\/p>\n<p>When you look at the stats, what is reported right now is about one in four women will say they\u2019ve experienced some form of sexual trauma before the age of 18. And it would be about one in five or one in six men. But most experts will say (in the field) that\u2019s way underestimated, because\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2013really?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013yes, they\u2019re not saying it.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2013people aren\u2019t reporting it. And a lot of people don\u2019t even identify what they\u2019ve experienced as sexual trauma until they\u2019re with a counselor, and they describe it, and somebody says, \u201cThat was sexual abuse.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s what happened to me.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m even wondering now, Juli, you would know better than anybody\u2014a woman that\u2019s married to a guy who\u2019s looking at porn (or dating)\u2014and again, I know women look at porn as well, but there\u2019s a trauma in that, isn\u2019t there?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Well, first of all there\u2019s definitely dysfunction, and the trauma comes in depending on how that\u2019s played out in their marriage. But there\u2019s definitely something called \u201cbetrayal trauma,\u201d and I don\u2019t know if you all have talked about this on your show\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013no.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2013but for somebody who\u2019s married to somebody who has had affairs or even repeatedly is looking at pornography, that feeling and that experience of finding something on your husband\u2019s phone or computer or your wife\u2019s, or finding out that your spouse has had an emotional affair or been unfaithful\u2014that is a trauma. All trust is now broken, and the individual who has experienced that begins to look back on their whole marriage or relationship and say, \u201cWas anything real?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u201cWas the past 20 years a lie?\u201d And now, what we\u2019ve begun to discover is that, particularly if it\u2019s happened more than once, the person can develop post-traumatic stress symptoms about even hearing a ping of an iPhone. \u201cWow, is that another text my husband\u2019s getting from a coworker?\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m afraid to look at my son\u2019s computer because I\u2019m going to see it again.\u201d That form of betrayal trauma is a real thing that\u2019s being documented in literature today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Man, what do you do?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Well, fortunately, there\u2019s a lot of help out there, and there are ministries and resources that are really helping spouses navigate that. It\u2019s very helpful to be in groups of other people that have experienced similar things so that you [know], \u201cI\u2019m not going crazy. You feel this, too.\u201d But then, also ,to work with a therapist or a counselor who understands the dynamics of betrayal and of sexual addiction to help you know, \u201cWhere do you set boundaries?\u201d And that\u2019s one of the most difficult things to navigate: \u201cHow do I set boundaries and address the issue without being paranoid?\u201d So, you really do need some specialized care if that\u2019s your situation.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And Juli, your ministry is called Authentic Intimacy, and you are helping people. You do have groups. Your podcast Java with Juli is great, too, because people are now hearing other experts in this field helping them. Thanks for all the things that you\u2019re helping all of us with.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, your first pillar, you tell us; I\u2019m not telling you. You wrote it, [Laughter] but it has something to do with the other side of betrayal.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: It really does.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You call it faithfulness.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes, let me set up the pillars really quickly\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013good\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2013for you. A lot of people listening are married; even those who are single, you care about marriage. Let me ask you to consider a question: what do you think makes a great sex life? Now, you guys have read the book.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I know! [Laughter] I\u2019m thinking [of] what I would have answered years ago even compared to what I would answer now.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: What do you think people would say?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What makes a great sex life? Creativity, spontaneity, you know?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Dave, in the past\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013fun.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014you would have said frequency.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cShe wants me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And as a woman, I would say a relationship is what matters; him being open with me and honest.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Relationship; really?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: See, I\u2019m all about, \u201cI want to know you.\u201d [Laughter] \u201cI want to feel good about our relationship. I want there to be affection.\u201d Those things make a great sex life.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Are we \u2018ding, ding, ding\u2019 or \u2018wrong, wrong, wrong\u2019?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: No, you\u2019re great. The big question is, \u201cHow would God define a great sex life?\u201d That\u2019s really what I was wrestling with in God, Sex, and Your Marriage, because I think most of us don\u2019t know the answer to that question. Based on our experience and how we\u2019re wired, we might pick aspects of, \u201cThis is what I think makes a great sex life,\u201d but if we step back and we say, \u201cWhy did God create sex as a gift of marriage, and what does He say a great sex life [is]?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What do most people say? Why did God create sex? What do you think most people\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2013to make babies?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What would you say?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: I would say He created sex as a way of revealing to us the nature of His covenant love. We have to understand that everything God has created in the natural world, He created intentionally to reveal Himself. If you read the scriptures, you\u2019re not going to find a page in the Bible that doesn\u2019t refer to natural creation in order for us to understand the nature of God.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, it\u2019s called general revelation.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: There you go. Yes, the concept of family and father, relationship\u2014all this teaches us about God. What did God create sex to reveal? If we read the scriptures, we see in the Old Testament and New Testament that He created sex to reveal this aspect of covenant, of His love for His covenant people, His chosen people. In the Old Testament, it was the nation of Israel. If you read the Old Testament, you see all this metaphorical language that\u2019s sexual to describe God\u2019s relationship with His people. In the New Testament, God\u2019s covenant is with the Church and again, you see this bridal and sexual language as a metaphor to describe Christ\u2019s relationship with the Church. If that\u2019s the purpose of sex, then what does a great sex life look like? And the answer is, it looks like God\u2019s love for His covenant people; and that\u2019s where I came up with these four pillars.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, that was a mini-course in theology right there, that most believers have never even heard. Regardless of if you\u2019re talking about sex, it\u2019s just\u2013but I guess you\u2019re going to get into it under the first pillar. This covenant, what does it mean?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Covenant is a unique relationship that\u2019s based on a promise. It\u2019s not based on how you feel. It\u2019s not based on if you\u2019re attracted to someone. It\u2019s not based on if you\u2019re meeting each other\u2019s needs. That\u2019s a contract. A covenant is, \u201cI am promising to love you. I am promising not to leave you or forsake you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Again, we hear echoes of that all throughout scripture, but it\u2019s what we\u2019re intended to say in our wedding vows, \u2018til death do us part. \u201cNo matter what comes, I\u2019m going to be faithful.\u201d When we look at the way God loves us, there\u2019s a very practical application to what marriage looks like and what sex looks like. That first pillar, which is the first aspect of understanding God\u2019s love for us, is this idea of faithfulness; that God\u2019s love for us is a promise; that He is not going to change. He\u2019s the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. His Word can be trusted. His character is faithful, and even when He doesn\u2019t make sense, we can trust Him.<\/p>\n<p>So, when we say, \u201cWhat\u2019s a great sex life look like?\u201d you know, this idea of being sexually faithful\u2014you can tell me if this has been your experience, but I always feel like the topic of faithfulness in sex is sort of like the special issue that only certain people want to know about. If you have experienced a betrayal, now you want a book on faithfulness. But what we don\u2019t realize is, nothing else good from sex can happen if you don\u2019t have a foundation of faithfulness.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Well, okay, Juli.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I agree 1,000 percent!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, me, too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It is the foundation.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m thinking of the listener thinking, \u201cI married\u2014he\u2019s not faithful, and he\u2019s addicted to porn.\u201d This could go either way. And \u201cwe don\u2019t even have a relationship. He\u2019s not even a believer. Am I supposed to fulfill that covenant?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes; boy, that\u2019s a deep question, and there are a lot of nuances to each individual\u2019s situation, but here\u2019s what I will say: you can\u2019t build anything else until the faithfulness aspect is addressed.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: His faithfulness or your faithfulness?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: His, because any form of sexual infidelity, including habitual use of pornography, is a violation of trust. God created sex to be so vulnerable and so intimate that we can\u2019t trust and we can\u2019t be vulnerable if there\u2019s continually breaking of that trust. You have to address the faithfulness issue. If there\u2019s a lack of trust, if there\u2019s a lack of fidelity, nothing else can be built.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: How do we address that? You know, if a listener is resonating, \u201cI don\u2019t even know what that would look like to address it.\u201d How do we address that with a spouse?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes, well, first let me level set for a minute. I would say, based on the research that\u2019s coming out now, probably about 90 percent of men and about 40 to 50 percent of women have some history with pornography. Many of them are continuing to struggle with it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: 90 percent of men?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: 50 percent of women?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Particularly in these younger generations.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And that\u2019s in the church as well?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes, because we\u2019re raised on it ,and those images get stuck in your brain. For many people, they\u2019re very addictive. This is not just saying, you know, for that random couple out there. You\u2019re not a random couple. Unfortunately, this is the norm. How do we address it? The first thing we need to do is to be honest about it. I think this is a conversation we avoid in the church and we avoid [in] marriage, because we\u2019re afraid of what the answer is. We\u2019re afraid of the conflict that will come up if we talk about it.<\/p>\n<p>When we look at scripture, it says, \u201cIf we say we have no sin,\u201d first of all, \u201cwe\u2019re a liar, and we have no fellowship with God or with one another.\u201d That\u2019s what\u2019s happening in a lot of marriages, because they\u2019re avoiding the sin. They\u2019re saying, \u201cThere\u2019s nothing wrong. We\u2019re fine.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You can\u2019t have deep fellowship with each other, and you can\u2019t have fellowship with God. John tells us what to do in that situation: confess your sin; bring it out into the light. Let\u2019s have the hard conversation, and then God is faithful and just to forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. It has to begin by bringing it into the light, and not just with one another, but bringing it into the light with God. Praying, seeking help, seeking mentoring. There are a lot of ministries and groups where it now has become a safe place to have these kinds of conversations. Men with men, women with other women, and also for married couples.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Should a married man tell his wife, or should he keep it between him and God?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And a woman?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013tell a bunch of guys?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes, you have to share it with your spouse.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: There\u2019s no intimacy when there are secrets.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, I\u2019ve heard others say, \u201cJust tell a buddy.\u201d I shared, 35 years ago, [that] I struggled with pornography with Ann. It didn\u2019t go well in that first conversation.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, we laugh about it now, but she was just irate. This was before there was digital\u2014and nobody in the church, especially in the church leadership, would ever say they struggled, and I did. I actually said it from the pulpit, too.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m really grateful though, because\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013it was a much-needed conversation, but it was a scary moment.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014I want to know all of him.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think that\u2019s the gospel. Jesus knows [us], wants all of us, sees it all; and He continues to pursue and love us. I think that\u2019s the picture of marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And is that even a move toward faithfulness?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: 100 percent.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Because when you bring it out of the secret area and bring it alive: \u201cI am committed to being faithful, and I can\u2019t\u2014\"<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2013yes\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013\u201cif I have a lie or a secret.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Juli: I think there is a big difference between finding out that your spouse is looking at pornography and them confessing; because a confession is, \u201cI\u2019m heartbroken about this. I\u2019m wanting to be vulnerable with you. I\u2019m wanting to get help. I\u2019m bringing it into the light,\u201d versus what often happens is, I find it once, then I find it again, and I think we\u2019re okay. A year later, I find it once again. Now, we\u2019re into, again, that betrayal trauma.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWhat is true? I can\u2019t trust anything.\u201d So, as much as you feel like, \u201cThis is going to hurt my spouse to speak it out loud,\u201d you\u2019ve already hurt your spouse. It\u2019s there. It\u2019s in the bedroom with you. It\u2019s interfering with intimacy. Bring it into the light. That first conversation may not go well but bring God into the conversation. Reach out for help!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Juli, what about as a parent? Are these discussions a mom has with her daughter?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That a dad has with his son. And what if you\u2019re a blended family, or you\u2019re a single mom or dad? Is that important?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: It is vitally important, and you can have conversations mother to son, father to daughter, if that\u2019s where the strongest relationship is. In my family, we have three sons, so my husband did some of that father work with our sons, but because I was way more comfortable with this topic, I\u2019ve also had honest conversations with my sons. It doesn\u2019t have to be graphic. There\u2019s no need for it to be graphic to talk about what pornography is, to disciple them through that journey. That\u2019s not just mom and dad, but it\u2019s also the other people that God brings into a young person\u2019s life to mentor and disciple them.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You could start with that stat: 90 percent of men; 40 to 50 percent of women.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes. This is, again, not an isolated event. It is an epidemic.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I would just say to the man that\u2019s listening who\u2019s struggling with pornography. I mean the stats are real, and almost every guy I talk to, if they\u2019re really honest, says, \u201cYes, I\u2019ve struggled.\u201d And the scariest thing in your life is to think about telling somebody, especially your wife. I\u2019m just saying, from one man to another: tell her. I know you\u2019ll be in fear and trepidation. I've been there. You\u2019ll get every excuse not to do it today or tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>Juli, you can agree or not. I would say, \u201cMan, this is a conversation that you\u2019ve got to have, and trust will be built. It sounds like the opposite is going to happen but over time as you journey together as a couple, trust will be built.\u201d Faithfulness is that key pillar, and I\u2019m guessing you started with faithfulness because it starts there.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It\u2019s going to be built as you navigate through honesty. It starts with honesty.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: So true. Dave, one thing that I say is, the most important ingredient of your sex life is your character. If you don\u2019t have that, it doesn\u2019t matter how many books you read. It doesn\u2019t matter how good you think you are in bed. You\u2019ve got nothing. God wants to refine our character and that\u2019s, for many of us, the first step.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, you wrote\u2014I\u2019m reading right from your book: \u201cYou might get physically naked without trust, but true intimacy is impossible without it\u201d (that trust). And if you sense that your spouse has a secret, whether it\u2019s porn or emotional affair or a real affair, there\u2019s no trust, so there\u2019s really no intimacy.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It\u2019s fake intimacy.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019ll add this, too, Dave. When you were battling that, I could sense something was up.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And I would say to Dave, \u201cSomething\u2019s going on. I don\u2019t feel like we\u2019re connecting. I feel like there\u2019s something happening.\u201d And I would ask him, \u201cIs there something going on?\u201d I wish I had gone to Dave with love and grace [with], \u201cHon, I just want you to know I\u2019m your teammate. If you are battling\u2014I heard the stats today and if this is a battle for you\u2014as a wife, I\u2019m going to confess if I\u2019ve battled. I want you to know I will help you and be your teammate in it. I can\u2019t imagine how scary it would be to tell me, but I want to know. I want to be in this together with you.\u201d Would that be a wise thing to do?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Boy, that\u2019s so beautifully put.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s what I thought.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I thought, \u201cWow!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Thanks, you guys.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Why didn\u2019t you do that 35 years ago? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was going to say, I would give yourself time to respond if your spouse tells you. I wish I had said, \u201cI need a night just to take this before God,\u201d because I did not do that, and I just reacted. I blew up. I was angry. I probably called you names.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: That\u2019s the normal response.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It is?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Oh, 100 percent, yes! The wife feels betrayed. She feels like, \u201cYou\u2019ve kept this secret from me!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Maybe, \u201cYou\u2019ve lied to me over and over.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Juli: And \u201cHow could you do this? Does this mean you don\u2019t love me? I feel rejected.\u201d It brings up all of her insecurities. The conversation that you just kind of role played\u2014We\u2019re old [Laughter], and you and I\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014we\u2019ve learned\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2014we\u2019ve had time to grow in our relationship with the Lord, to grow in trust in our marriage. We\u2019re at a place now where we can have that kind of approach. [Laughter] But maybe 25 years ago, those words could not have come out of my mouth.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Me neither,<\/p>\n<p>Juli: So, for those younger wives who are listening (and husbands), there\u2019s grace in this journey; and that\u2019s why it\u2019s so important to have older couples that can mentor you through this, because there\u2019s a very good chance they\u2019ve been through it as well.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Before we keep going, there\u2019s a new thing FamilyLife is launching soon that you\u2019re apart of\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014yes, a special project\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013a video-based series. We\u2019ve been in it; you\u2019re in it. Tell us what you\u2019re excited about for this thing.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes, I\u2019m excited for couples to have a resource where they can just learn some of the very basics of navigating marriage issues. I think sometimes, we take for granted that we know how to communicate, we know how to address conflict, we know how to approach sexual issues in our marriage or issues around finances. There\u2019s such a need. Even in my own marriage, my husband and I have been married for 28 years, but to come back to the basics and to view them through God\u2019s perspective and to be able to do that kind of processing in a group. FamilyLife has done an outstanding job of creating this kind of resource, and I\u2019m just blessed to be a part of it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And the resource we\u2019re talking about is the new Art of Marriage\u00ae.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Let me tell you, it is awesome!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s going to be great.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, the original Art of Marriage, which has been out for a couple decades, was fabulous. You know, obviously, we ended up in it, but we\u2019re in the new one. What has been created, I think, is just going to blow people away. It is one of the best video marriage curriculums you will ever get a chance to see. Any by the way, you\u2019re going to get a preview if you want. On November 1st, you can get a preview of the new Art of Marriage. You can sign up in the show notes, or you can go to FamilyLife.com\/coming soon, and you\u2019ll get a chance to see what this new Art of Marriage is going to be about.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Juli, I\u2019m really glad that you can be a part of this with us.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, we\u2019ll do another program to do the other three pillars. We only got one of four. And we thought it would be fun to bring your husband Mike in to\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2014that would be\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013hear the real story.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Keeping me honest here.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I like it.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: That sounds good.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Juli Slattery on FamilyLife Today. We have been working a ton to bring you all the new Art of Marriage. You\u2019ve been asking, and we heard you. So, if you\u2019re not familiar with the Art of Marriage, it\u2019s our cornerstone small group marriage study. Since its release in 2011, it has impacted well over a million couples globally.<\/p>\n<p>On November 1st, we will be hosting a live event to give you an inside look at the new content and hear from the teachers of the study why marriages are so important and the impact we think this study will have. To sign up for the live event and to be the first to preorder, go to the show notes and find the link there. We cannot wait to share the all-new Art of Marriage with you.<\/p>\n<p>You know, Juli Slattery has written a book called God, Sex, and Your Marriage. It challenges the common assumptions couples have about sexuality and presents, really, the richer biblical narratives of sex as a metaphor of God\u2019s covenant love. You can get a copy of Dr. Slattery\u2019s book of God, Sex, and Your Marriage at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, tomorrow, as Dave and Ann Wilson were talking about earlier, Juli Slattery is going to be joined by her husband, Mike. They\u2019re going to be talking about the parallels between God\u2019s love and marriage. You won\u2019t want to miss it.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n"],"_edit_lock":["1745433081:47000"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_f35d441c362d91cb27d852a3dbe0e201f75567e5":["\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Name\" type=\"name\"  required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Email\" type=\"email\" required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Website\" type=\"url\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Message\" type=\"textarea\" \/]"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_atts_f35d441c362d91cb27d852a3dbe0e201f75567e5":["a:17:{s:2:\"to\";s:29:\"margaret.coyle@familylife.com\";s:7:\"subject\";s:85:\"[FamilyLife - A Cru Ministry] God, Sex, and Your Marriage: Dr. Juli and Mike Slattery\";s:12:\"show_subject\";s:2:\"no\";s:6:\"widget\";i:0;s:14:\"block_template\";N;s:19:\"block_template_part\";N;s:2:\"id\";i:280420;s:18:\"submit_button_text\";s:6:\"Submit\";s:14:\"customThankyou\";s:0:\"\";s:21:\"customThankyouHeading\";s:26:\"Your message has been sent\";s:21:\"customThankyouMessage\";s:30:\"Thank you for your submission!\";s:22:\"customThankyouRedirect\";s:0:\"\";s:10:\"jetpackCRM\";b:1;s:9:\"className\";N;s:9:\"postToUrl\";N;s:14:\"salesforceData\";N;s:12:\"hiddenFields\";N;}"],"_edit_last":["47000"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li>Connect with Dr. Juli Slattery at <a href=\"http:\/\/www.authenticintimacy.com\/\">http:\/\/www.authenticintimacy.com<\/a> and learn more about her ministry at <a href=\"https:\/\/sexualdiscipleship.com\/\">sexualdiscipleship.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li>and get a copy of her book, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/god-sex-and-your-marriage\/\">God, Sex, and Your Marriage<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Check out more episodes from <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/Juli-slattery\/\">Juli Slattery<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"theme_header_position":["Sticky"],"post_header_is_sticky":["default"],"is_header_overlay":["0"],"episode_type":["audio"],"date_recorded":["2023-10-12 09:15:00"],"enclosure":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/7a351184-81ef-42c0-acd7-b154011d8935\/audio.mp3"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-280420.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-280420.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px 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Coyle","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coyle-a9eb952f\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"What if God gave us married sex as a picture of Himself? And how could your understanding of this picture revolutionize your sex life? Dr. Juli Slattery and her husband Mike explore mind-boggling truths of how, in an over-sexualized world, God's ideas abo...","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Connect with Dr. Juli Slattery at <a href=\"http:\/\/www.authenticintimacy.com\/\">http:\/\/www.authenticintimacy.com<\/a> and learn more about her ministry at <a href=\"https:\/\/sexualdiscipleship.com\/\">sexualdiscipleship.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li>and get a copy of her book, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/god-sex-and-your-marriage\/\">God, Sex, and Your Marriage<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Check out more episodes from <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/Juli-slattery\/\">Juli Slattery<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2023-10-12.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>God, Sex, and Your Marriage<\/p>\n<p>Guest:Dr. Juli and Mike Slattery<\/p>\n<p>From the series:God, Sex, and Your Marriage (Day 1 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:October 12, 2023<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Hey, Shelby Abbott here. Just want to give a heads up before you listen to this next program. Today\u2019s conversation on FamilyLife Today covers some sensitive but important subjects that might not be suitable for younger ears. So, please use discretion when listening to this next broadcast. Alright, now let\u2019s jump into it.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Covenant is a unique relationship that\u2019s based on a promise. It\u2019s not based on how you feel. It\u2019s not based on if you\u2019re attracted to someone. It\u2019s not based on if you\u2019re meeting each other\u2019s needs. That\u2019s a contract. A covenant is, \u201cI am promising to love you. I am promising to not leave you or forsake you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: As we travel around the country and do marriage conferences, it\u2019s changed.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, I would say it\u2019s changed.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, the audiences are the same, but there\u2019s something different. We used to talk about sex and couples would come up and smile and say, \u201cThank you.\u201d Now, they line up. They are hurt. They have wounds. They have trauma. They want to\u2013it feels like a long line of a lot of pain.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What\u2019s encouraging, Dave, is I feel like that trauma has probably always been there, but now they\u2019re starting to be willing to talk about it. And I think because of my own past with sexual abuse and not thinking that would even affect my marriage. Then, we get married (so many of us) where there\u2019s been some sort of trauma, and we don\u2019t even know what to do with it after we get married.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, and we need help. We\u2019ve got help in the studio today. Dr. Juli Slattery is back. You are someone that can help us. Welcome back.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Thanks so much for having me. It\u2019s always a joy to be here talking to friends.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Don\u2019t you feel like when Juli\u2019s with us, I come up with this list of things I want to talk to her about [Laughter] individually. Like, \u201cLet\u2019s talk to Juli about this!\u201d There are so many things, because she\u2019s wise; she\u2019s biblical. She has a lot of help, and she has a new book, too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, and you\u2019ve been talking and writing about sexuality for a long time. This new one is called, God, Sex, and Your Marriage. But before we even dig into it, you have four pillars in here of great sex, now who doesn\u2019t want to know what those are, right?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: They\u2019re saying, \u201cWait, wait, wait, wait. Don\u2019t skip that.\u201d We\u2019ll get to it; [Laughter] but talk about what we just mentioned: trauma. Is that something you\u2019re seeing as well compared to 30 years ago, or has that always been there?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: I think, Ann, what you said is true.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It\u2019s always\u2014?<\/p>\n<p>Juil: No, you just set her up so well.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s because Juli just told me about it on the walk back to the studio. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Is that true?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: No, she knew, she knew\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013it\u2019s always been there. Is that what you\u2019re\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2013it\u2019s always been there, yes.<\/p>\n<p>When you look at the stats, what is reported right now is about one in four women will say they\u2019ve experienced some form of sexual trauma before the age of 18. And it would be about one in five or one in six men. But most experts will say (in the field) that\u2019s way underestimated, because\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2013really?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013yes, they\u2019re not saying it.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2013people aren\u2019t reporting it. And a lot of people don\u2019t even identify what they\u2019ve experienced as sexual trauma until they\u2019re with a counselor, and they describe it, and somebody says, \u201cThat was sexual abuse.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s what happened to me.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m even wondering now, Juli, you would know better than anybody\u2014a woman that\u2019s married to a guy who\u2019s looking at porn (or dating)\u2014and again, I know women look at porn as well, but there\u2019s a trauma in that, isn\u2019t there?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Well, first of all there\u2019s definitely dysfunction, and the trauma comes in depending on how that\u2019s played out in their marriage. But there\u2019s definitely something called \u201cbetrayal trauma,\u201d and I don\u2019t know if you all have talked about this on your show\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013no.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2013but for somebody who\u2019s married to somebody who has had affairs or even repeatedly is looking at pornography, that feeling and that experience of finding something on your husband\u2019s phone or computer or your wife\u2019s, or finding out that your spouse has had an emotional affair or been unfaithful\u2014that is a trauma. All trust is now broken, and the individual who has experienced that begins to look back on their whole marriage or relationship and say, \u201cWas anything real?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u201cWas the past 20 years a lie?\u201d And now, what we\u2019ve begun to discover is that, particularly if it\u2019s happened more than once, the person can develop post-traumatic stress symptoms about even hearing a ping of an iPhone. \u201cWow, is that another text my husband\u2019s getting from a coworker?\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m afraid to look at my son\u2019s computer because I\u2019m going to see it again.\u201d That form of betrayal trauma is a real thing that\u2019s being documented in literature today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Man, what do you do?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Well, fortunately, there\u2019s a lot of help out there, and there are ministries and resources that are really helping spouses navigate that. It\u2019s very helpful to be in groups of other people that have experienced similar things so that you [know], \u201cI\u2019m not going crazy. You feel this, too.\u201d But then, also ,to work with a therapist or a counselor who understands the dynamics of betrayal and of sexual addiction to help you know, \u201cWhere do you set boundaries?\u201d And that\u2019s one of the most difficult things to navigate: \u201cHow do I set boundaries and address the issue without being paranoid?\u201d So, you really do need some specialized care if that\u2019s your situation.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And Juli, your ministry is called Authentic Intimacy, and you are helping people. You do have groups. Your podcast Java with Juli is great, too, because people are now hearing other experts in this field helping them. Thanks for all the things that you\u2019re helping all of us with.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, your first pillar, you tell us; I\u2019m not telling you. You wrote it, [Laughter] but it has something to do with the other side of betrayal.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: It really does.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You call it faithfulness.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes, let me set up the pillars really quickly\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013good\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2013for you. A lot of people listening are married; even those who are single, you care about marriage. Let me ask you to consider a question: what do you think makes a great sex life? Now, you guys have read the book.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I know! [Laughter] I\u2019m thinking [of] what I would have answered years ago even compared to what I would answer now.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: What do you think people would say?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What makes a great sex life? Creativity, spontaneity, you know?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Dave, in the past\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013fun.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014you would have said frequency.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cShe wants me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And as a woman, I would say a relationship is what matters; him being open with me and honest.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Relationship; really?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: See, I\u2019m all about, \u201cI want to know you.\u201d [Laughter] \u201cI want to feel good about our relationship. I want there to be affection.\u201d Those things make a great sex life.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Are we \u2018ding, ding, ding\u2019 or \u2018wrong, wrong, wrong\u2019?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: No, you\u2019re great. The big question is, \u201cHow would God define a great sex life?\u201d That\u2019s really what I was wrestling with in God, Sex, and Your Marriage, because I think most of us don\u2019t know the answer to that question. Based on our experience and how we\u2019re wired, we might pick aspects of, \u201cThis is what I think makes a great sex life,\u201d but if we step back and we say, \u201cWhy did God create sex as a gift of marriage, and what does He say a great sex life [is]?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What do most people say? Why did God create sex? What do you think most people\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2013to make babies?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What would you say?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: I would say He created sex as a way of revealing to us the nature of His covenant love. We have to understand that everything God has created in the natural world, He created intentionally to reveal Himself. If you read the scriptures, you\u2019re not going to find a page in the Bible that doesn\u2019t refer to natural creation in order for us to understand the nature of God.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, it\u2019s called general revelation.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: There you go. Yes, the concept of family and father, relationship\u2014all this teaches us about God. What did God create sex to reveal? If we read the scriptures, we see in the Old Testament and New Testament that He created sex to reveal this aspect of covenant, of His love for His covenant people, His chosen people. In the Old Testament, it was the nation of Israel. If you read the Old Testament, you see all this metaphorical language that\u2019s sexual to describe God\u2019s relationship with His people. In the New Testament, God\u2019s covenant is with the Church and again, you see this bridal and sexual language as a metaphor to describe Christ\u2019s relationship with the Church. If that\u2019s the purpose of sex, then what does a great sex life look like? And the answer is, it looks like God\u2019s love for His covenant people; and that\u2019s where I came up with these four pillars.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, that was a mini-course in theology right there, that most believers have never even heard. Regardless of if you\u2019re talking about sex, it\u2019s just\u2013but I guess you\u2019re going to get into it under the first pillar. This covenant, what does it mean?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Covenant is a unique relationship that\u2019s based on a promise. It\u2019s not based on how you feel. It\u2019s not based on if you\u2019re attracted to someone. It\u2019s not based on if you\u2019re meeting each other\u2019s needs. That\u2019s a contract. A covenant is, \u201cI am promising to love you. I am promising not to leave you or forsake you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Again, we hear echoes of that all throughout scripture, but it\u2019s what we\u2019re intended to say in our wedding vows, \u2018til death do us part. \u201cNo matter what comes, I\u2019m going to be faithful.\u201d When we look at the way God loves us, there\u2019s a very practical application to what marriage looks like and what sex looks like. That first pillar, which is the first aspect of understanding God\u2019s love for us, is this idea of faithfulness; that God\u2019s love for us is a promise; that He is not going to change. He\u2019s the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. His Word can be trusted. His character is faithful, and even when He doesn\u2019t make sense, we can trust Him.<\/p>\n<p>So, when we say, \u201cWhat\u2019s a great sex life look like?\u201d you know, this idea of being sexually faithful\u2014you can tell me if this has been your experience, but I always feel like the topic of faithfulness in sex is sort of like the special issue that only certain people want to know about. If you have experienced a betrayal, now you want a book on faithfulness. But what we don\u2019t realize is, nothing else good from sex can happen if you don\u2019t have a foundation of faithfulness.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Well, okay, Juli.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I agree 1,000 percent!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, me, too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It is the foundation.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m thinking of the listener thinking, \u201cI married\u2014he\u2019s not faithful, and he\u2019s addicted to porn.\u201d This could go either way. And \u201cwe don\u2019t even have a relationship. He\u2019s not even a believer. Am I supposed to fulfill that covenant?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes; boy, that\u2019s a deep question, and there are a lot of nuances to each individual\u2019s situation, but here\u2019s what I will say: you can\u2019t build anything else until the faithfulness aspect is addressed.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: His faithfulness or your faithfulness?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: His, because any form of sexual infidelity, including habitual use of pornography, is a violation of trust. God created sex to be so vulnerable and so intimate that we can\u2019t trust and we can\u2019t be vulnerable if there\u2019s continually breaking of that trust. You have to address the faithfulness issue. If there\u2019s a lack of trust, if there\u2019s a lack of fidelity, nothing else can be built.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: How do we address that? You know, if a listener is resonating, \u201cI don\u2019t even know what that would look like to address it.\u201d How do we address that with a spouse?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes, well, first let me level set for a minute. I would say, based on the research that\u2019s coming out now, probably about 90 percent of men and about 40 to 50 percent of women have some history with pornography. Many of them are continuing to struggle with it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: 90 percent of men?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: 50 percent of women?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Particularly in these younger generations.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And that\u2019s in the church as well?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes, because we\u2019re raised on it ,and those images get stuck in your brain. For many people, they\u2019re very addictive. This is not just saying, you know, for that random couple out there. You\u2019re not a random couple. Unfortunately, this is the norm. How do we address it? The first thing we need to do is to be honest about it. I think this is a conversation we avoid in the church and we avoid [in] marriage, because we\u2019re afraid of what the answer is. We\u2019re afraid of the conflict that will come up if we talk about it.<\/p>\n<p>When we look at scripture, it says, \u201cIf we say we have no sin,\u201d first of all, \u201cwe\u2019re a liar, and we have no fellowship with God or with one another.\u201d That\u2019s what\u2019s happening in a lot of marriages, because they\u2019re avoiding the sin. They\u2019re saying, \u201cThere\u2019s nothing wrong. We\u2019re fine.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You can\u2019t have deep fellowship with each other, and you can\u2019t have fellowship with God. John tells us what to do in that situation: confess your sin; bring it out into the light. Let\u2019s have the hard conversation, and then God is faithful and just to forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. It has to begin by bringing it into the light, and not just with one another, but bringing it into the light with God. Praying, seeking help, seeking mentoring. There are a lot of ministries and groups where it now has become a safe place to have these kinds of conversations. Men with men, women with other women, and also for married couples.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Should a married man tell his wife, or should he keep it between him and God?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And a woman?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013tell a bunch of guys?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes, you have to share it with your spouse.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: There\u2019s no intimacy when there are secrets.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, I\u2019ve heard others say, \u201cJust tell a buddy.\u201d I shared, 35 years ago, [that] I struggled with pornography with Ann. It didn\u2019t go well in that first conversation.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, we laugh about it now, but she was just irate. This was before there was digital\u2014and nobody in the church, especially in the church leadership, would ever say they struggled, and I did. I actually said it from the pulpit, too.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m really grateful though, because\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013it was a much-needed conversation, but it was a scary moment.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014I want to know all of him.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think that\u2019s the gospel. Jesus knows [us], wants all of us, sees it all; and He continues to pursue and love us. I think that\u2019s the picture of marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And is that even a move toward faithfulness?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: 100 percent.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Because when you bring it out of the secret area and bring it alive: \u201cI am committed to being faithful, and I can\u2019t\u2014\"<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2013yes\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013\u201cif I have a lie or a secret.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Juli: I think there is a big difference between finding out that your spouse is looking at pornography and them confessing; because a confession is, \u201cI\u2019m heartbroken about this. I\u2019m wanting to be vulnerable with you. I\u2019m wanting to get help. I\u2019m bringing it into the light,\u201d versus what often happens is, I find it once, then I find it again, and I think we\u2019re okay. A year later, I find it once again. Now, we\u2019re into, again, that betrayal trauma.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWhat is true? I can\u2019t trust anything.\u201d So, as much as you feel like, \u201cThis is going to hurt my spouse to speak it out loud,\u201d you\u2019ve already hurt your spouse. It\u2019s there. It\u2019s in the bedroom with you. It\u2019s interfering with intimacy. Bring it into the light. That first conversation may not go well but bring God into the conversation. Reach out for help!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Juli, what about as a parent? Are these discussions a mom has with her daughter?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That a dad has with his son. And what if you\u2019re a blended family, or you\u2019re a single mom or dad? Is that important?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: It is vitally important, and you can have conversations mother to son, father to daughter, if that\u2019s where the strongest relationship is. In my family, we have three sons, so my husband did some of that father work with our sons, but because I was way more comfortable with this topic, I\u2019ve also had honest conversations with my sons. It doesn\u2019t have to be graphic. There\u2019s no need for it to be graphic to talk about what pornography is, to disciple them through that journey. That\u2019s not just mom and dad, but it\u2019s also the other people that God brings into a young person\u2019s life to mentor and disciple them.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You could start with that stat: 90 percent of men; 40 to 50 percent of women.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes. This is, again, not an isolated event. It is an epidemic.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I would just say to the man that\u2019s listening who\u2019s struggling with pornography. I mean the stats are real, and almost every guy I talk to, if they\u2019re really honest, says, \u201cYes, I\u2019ve struggled.\u201d And the scariest thing in your life is to think about telling somebody, especially your wife. I\u2019m just saying, from one man to another: tell her. I know you\u2019ll be in fear and trepidation. I've been there. You\u2019ll get every excuse not to do it today or tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>Juli, you can agree or not. I would say, \u201cMan, this is a conversation that you\u2019ve got to have, and trust will be built. It sounds like the opposite is going to happen but over time as you journey together as a couple, trust will be built.\u201d Faithfulness is that key pillar, and I\u2019m guessing you started with faithfulness because it starts there.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It\u2019s going to be built as you navigate through honesty. It starts with honesty.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: So true. Dave, one thing that I say is, the most important ingredient of your sex life is your character. If you don\u2019t have that, it doesn\u2019t matter how many books you read. It doesn\u2019t matter how good you think you are in bed. You\u2019ve got nothing. God wants to refine our character and that\u2019s, for many of us, the first step.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, you wrote\u2014I\u2019m reading right from your book: \u201cYou might get physically naked without trust, but true intimacy is impossible without it\u201d (that trust). And if you sense that your spouse has a secret, whether it\u2019s porn or emotional affair or a real affair, there\u2019s no trust, so there\u2019s really no intimacy.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It\u2019s fake intimacy.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019ll add this, too, Dave. When you were battling that, I could sense something was up.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And I would say to Dave, \u201cSomething\u2019s going on. I don\u2019t feel like we\u2019re connecting. I feel like there\u2019s something happening.\u201d And I would ask him, \u201cIs there something going on?\u201d I wish I had gone to Dave with love and grace [with], \u201cHon, I just want you to know I\u2019m your teammate. If you are battling\u2014I heard the stats today and if this is a battle for you\u2014as a wife, I\u2019m going to confess if I\u2019ve battled. I want you to know I will help you and be your teammate in it. I can\u2019t imagine how scary it would be to tell me, but I want to know. I want to be in this together with you.\u201d Would that be a wise thing to do?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Boy, that\u2019s so beautifully put.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s what I thought.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I thought, \u201cWow!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Thanks, you guys.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Why didn\u2019t you do that 35 years ago? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was going to say, I would give yourself time to respond if your spouse tells you. I wish I had said, \u201cI need a night just to take this before God,\u201d because I did not do that, and I just reacted. I blew up. I was angry. I probably called you names.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: That\u2019s the normal response.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It is?<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Oh, 100 percent, yes! The wife feels betrayed. She feels like, \u201cYou\u2019ve kept this secret from me!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Maybe, \u201cYou\u2019ve lied to me over and over.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Juli: And \u201cHow could you do this? Does this mean you don\u2019t love me? I feel rejected.\u201d It brings up all of her insecurities. The conversation that you just kind of role played\u2014We\u2019re old [Laughter], and you and I\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014we\u2019ve learned\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2014we\u2019ve had time to grow in our relationship with the Lord, to grow in trust in our marriage. We\u2019re at a place now where we can have that kind of approach. [Laughter] But maybe 25 years ago, those words could not have come out of my mouth.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Me neither,<\/p>\n<p>Juli: So, for those younger wives who are listening (and husbands), there\u2019s grace in this journey; and that\u2019s why it\u2019s so important to have older couples that can mentor you through this, because there\u2019s a very good chance they\u2019ve been through it as well.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Before we keep going, there\u2019s a new thing FamilyLife is launching soon that you\u2019re apart of\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014yes, a special project\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013a video-based series. We\u2019ve been in it; you\u2019re in it. Tell us what you\u2019re excited about for this thing.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Yes, I\u2019m excited for couples to have a resource where they can just learn some of the very basics of navigating marriage issues. I think sometimes, we take for granted that we know how to communicate, we know how to address conflict, we know how to approach sexual issues in our marriage or issues around finances. There\u2019s such a need. Even in my own marriage, my husband and I have been married for 28 years, but to come back to the basics and to view them through God\u2019s perspective and to be able to do that kind of processing in a group. FamilyLife has done an outstanding job of creating this kind of resource, and I\u2019m just blessed to be a part of it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And the resource we\u2019re talking about is the new Art of Marriage\u00ae.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Let me tell you, it is awesome!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s going to be great.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I mean, the original Art of Marriage, which has been out for a couple decades, was fabulous. You know, obviously, we ended up in it, but we\u2019re in the new one. What has been created, I think, is just going to blow people away. It is one of the best video marriage curriculums you will ever get a chance to see. Any by the way, you\u2019re going to get a preview if you want. On November 1st, you can get a preview of the new Art of Marriage. You can sign up in the show notes, or you can go to FamilyLife.com\/coming soon, and you\u2019ll get a chance to see what this new Art of Marriage is going to be about.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Juli, I\u2019m really glad that you can be a part of this with us.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, we\u2019ll do another program to do the other three pillars. We only got one of four. And we thought it would be fun to bring your husband Mike in to\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Juli: \u2014that would be\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2013hear the real story.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: Keeping me honest here.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I like it.<\/p>\n<p>Juli: That sounds good.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Juli Slattery on FamilyLife Today. We have been working a ton to bring you all the new Art of Marriage. You\u2019ve been asking, and we heard you. So, if you\u2019re not familiar with the Art of Marriage, it\u2019s our cornerstone small group marriage study. Since its release in 2011, it has impacted well over a million couples globally.<\/p>\n<p>On November 1st, we will be hosting a live event to give you an inside look at the new content and hear from the teachers of the study why marriages are so important and the impact we think this study will have. To sign up for the live event and to be the first to preorder, go to the show notes and find the link there. We cannot wait to share the all-new Art of Marriage with you.<\/p>\n<p>You know, Juli Slattery has written a book called God, Sex, and Your Marriage. It challenges the common assumptions couples have about sexuality and presents, really, the richer biblical narratives of sex as a metaphor of God\u2019s covenant love. You can get a copy of Dr. Slattery\u2019s book of God, Sex, and Your Marriage at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, tomorrow, as Dave and Ann Wilson were talking about earlier, Juli Slattery is going to be joined by her husband, Mike. They\u2019re going to be talking about the parallels between God\u2019s love and marriage. You won\u2019t want to miss it.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2023 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/280420","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=280420"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280866"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=280420"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=280420"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=280420"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=280420"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=280420"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=280420"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}