{"id":280355,"date":"2024-01-11T10:15:00","date_gmt":"2024-01-11T15:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/the-god-they-see-why-theology-is-unignorable-as-a-parent\/"},"modified":"2024-11-19T04:15:38","modified_gmt":"2024-11-19T09:15:38","slug":"the-god-they-see-why-theology-is-unignorable-as-a-parent","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-god-they-see-why-theology-is-unignorable-as-a-parent\/","title":{"rendered":"The God They See: Why Theology is Unignorable as a Parent"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>As a parent, when you\u2019re disciplining, breaking up fights, or chatting in the car\u2014would you believe you\u2019re doing theology? Theologian Kelly Kapic knows theology isn&#8217;t just a matter of what we think. It affects who we are.<\/p>\n<p>Theology is about life, which means our souls can\u2019t afford to avoid it.<\/p>\n<p>So what version of God are our kids internalizing? How can we respond thoughtfully in talks with our kids about acceptance, injustice, suffering, poverty, and moral absolutes?<\/p>\n<p>Kelly, author of A Little Book for New Theologians: Why and How to Study Theology, offer do-this-now ideas to shape an unshakeable theology that can stand up to whatever life tosses at our kids.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>As a parent, when you\u2019re disciplining, breaking up fights, or chatting in the car\u2014would you believe you\u2019re doing theology? Theologian Kelly Kapic knows theology isn&#8217;t just a matter of what we think. It affects who we are. Theology is about life, whi&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280866,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/3edc91f9-4a13-432a-ae33-b154011ca129\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:25:44","filesize":"23.59M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9867],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-280355","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","cwp_profile-kelly-kapic","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/280355\/the-god-they-see-why-theology-is-unignorable-as-a-parent","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/280355\/the-god-they-see-why-theology-is-unignorable-as-a-parent","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"lLDdnwTWkM\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-god-they-see-why-theology-is-unignorable-as-a-parent\/\">The God They See: Why Theology is Unignorable as a Parent<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-god-they-see-why-theology-is-unignorable-as-a-parent\/embed\/#?secret=lLDdnwTWkM\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The God They See: Why Theology is Unignorable as a Parent&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"lLDdnwTWkM\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"As a parent, when you\u2019re disciplining, breaking up fights, or chatting in the car\u2014would you believe you\u2019re doing theology? Theologian Kelly Kapic knows theology isn't just a matter of what we think. It affects who we are. Theology is about life, whi...","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<p>Grab Kelly Kapic's books, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/a-little-book-for-new-theologians-why-and-how-to-study-theology\">A Little Book for New Theologians<\/a>: Why and How to Study Theology and <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/becoming-whole-why-the-opposite-of-poverty-isnt-the-american-dream\">Becoming Whole: Why the Opposite of Poverty Isn't the American Dream<\/a> in our shop<br \/>Want to hear more episodes by Kelly and Tabitha, listen <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/?s=Kelly+Kapicandpost_type=wpfc_sermon\">here<\/a>!<br \/>Transform your marriage at half the cost! <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/weekend-to-remember\/\">Weekend to Remember Spring Sale,<\/a> Jan 8-22, 2024\u2014your key to lasting love and connection.<br \/><a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/january-2024\/you-can-be-a-source-of-hope\/?cru_source=24EGPCandcru_medium=podcastandcru_campaign=January2024\">Give a gift today to help FamilyLife to give hope to more families<\/a>.<br \/>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<br \/><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><br \/>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<br \/>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<br \/>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/p>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-01-11.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript\r\n\r\nReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.\r\n\r\nThe American Dream . . . is a Lie?\r\n\r\nGuest:Kelly Kapic\r\n\r\nFrom the series:The American Dream is a Lie (Day 1 of 2)\r\n\r\nAir date:January 11, 2024\r\n\r\nKelly: When we say theology matters and it\u2019s practical, we\u2019re not saying you actually need to be perfect. The good theology is showing your kids, \u201cI need to ask for forgiveness.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Yes.\r\n\r\nKelly: To say, \u201cI don\u2019t know.\u201d To let the kids see you begging God for things, and you wrestling with God for things. That\u2019s actually good theology. Theology is not about giving all the right answers, because we don\u2019t always have them.\r\n\r\nShelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nDave: This is FamilyLife Today!\r\n\r\nDave: Do you know what my favorite seminary class was?\r\n\r\nAnn: Um, Communication?\r\n\r\nDave: That\u2019s sort of what we do now.\r\n\r\nAnn: My favorite, probably, was Old Testament\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014Old Testament Survey\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014with Walter Kaiser.\r\n\r\nKelly: Wow.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes, he was good!\r\n\r\nAnn: What was yours?\r\n\r\nDave: Theology.\r\n\r\nAnn: Ohhhh!\r\n\r\nDave: I had J.P. Moreland. He taught Theology in a way that expanded my mind! I remember thinking, \u201cI do not even know how to think about God.\u201d [Laughter] Until taking that class, then [I thought], \u201cThis is really critical!: how you view and understand the attributes and who God is.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Okay, let me ask you this: before you went to seminary, would you have considered yourself a theologian?\r\n\r\nDave: No! \r\n\r\nAnn: Me neither.\r\n\r\nDave: No! Those were the brainiacs!\r\n\r\nAnn: I would still say\u2014I went to seminary, and I would still say\u2014I\u2019m not. But\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014well, we have\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014we\u2019re going to talk about something today!\r\n\r\nKelly: Nice transition! Well done! [Laughter] You guys have been doing this for a while? [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: Kelly Kapic is sitting here. That\u2019s the voice you\u2019re hearing. He is\u2014you are\u2014a theologian.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes, officially!\r\n\r\nDave: You teach at a school, Covenant\u2014\r\n\r\nKelly: \u2014I make a living at it; yes.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes. \r\n\r\nKelly: If that\u2019s what you mean.\r\n\r\nDave: That\u2019s what I would have thought a theologian is.\r\n\r\nKelly: Sure, sure.\r\n\r\nDave: It\u2019s somebody who spent their life studying, and now is teaching others.\r\n\r\nKelly: Right, right.\r\n\r\nDave: But we have a little book you wrote. And when I say \u201clittle,\u201d I mean little. \r\n\r\nKelly: Yes, it\u2019s legitimate.\r\n\r\nDave: I mean, it\u2019s about the size of my hand\u2014A Little Book for New Theologians: Why and How to Study Theology. It\u2019s been out for a while!\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: So, the question that Ann even asked me\u2014would I consider myself a theologian; you would say what?\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes! You guys are theologians. \r\n\r\nDave: And you don\u2019t just mean Dave and Ann. You mean everybody?\r\n\r\nKelly: No, just you guys. \r\n\r\nDave: No kidding; that\u2019s what I thought. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nKelly: No, no; at risk of sounding cheesy, what we\u2019ll see as we talk about it is, we really are all theologians. The question isn\u2019t, \u201cAre you a theologian?\u201d It\u2019s, \u201cAre you a good one?\u201d That\u2019s worth exploring. \r\n\r\nTheology is just theos, \u201cfrom God,\u201d right? (It means \u201cGod.\u201d) And -ology is related to\u2014people know the word logos, \u201cword.\u201d Theology is a word about God. Those could even be unspoken words. That\u2019s why we\u2019re all theologians. When we\u2019re going through difficulty\u2014if we\u2019re going through infertility, whether we speak them or not, we\u2019re having thoughts about God. \r\n\r\nWhen we\u2019re having aches in this world and we\u2019re struggling, when we\u2019re having hopes and delights, there\u2019s a lot of theology that\u2019s going on. Part of it is just recognizing we are theologians. So, how do we make sure that the God we\u2019re responding to and worshiping is the true and living God and not a figment of our imagination?\r\n\r\nAnn: Kelly, why did you want to write this book?\r\n\r\nKelly: Because I get to do this for a living! I love what I do. I teach college students at Covenant College. These are 18- to 22-year-olds. They\u2019re studying history, law, chemistry\u2014but everyone takes two classes in Theology. I love when they walk in and think, \u201cI can\u2019t believe I have to take a stupid class like this!\u201d [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: Yes.\r\n\r\nKelly: And then, within weeks, I just watch their eyes light up, and they start to see: \u201cThis is meaning and purpose!\u201d \r\n\r\nIt\u2019s fascinating to me\u2014I was having a conversation with someone recently: at Yale right now, at Harvard right now, [at] Notre Dame, there is a class on happiness. These institutions will call it different things, and they\u2019re exploding!\r\n\r\nAnn: On happiness\u2014that\u2019s the subject?\r\n\r\nKelly: On happiness, right\u2014or on human flourishing, because there\u2019s so much longing. You\u2019re obviously going to get good jobs; you\u2019re going to make a lot of money; but what is it all about? As Christians, we [say], \u201cPurpose and meaning are central to what we\u2019re doing. So, it is\u2014the students really respond well. They do want to know how their faith matters.\r\n\r\nAnn: Is there something that you do at the beginning of class? You\u2019re thinking to yourself, as a professor, \u201cThey\u2019re just going to be thinking, [Moaning] \u2018I have to get through this class\u2019?\u201d \r\n\r\nKelly: Right; yes, yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: What do you do\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014what hooks them?\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014yes, what do you do that grabs their attention?\r\n\r\nKelly: One thing I often do on the very first day of class is, I bring, literally, a three-feet high stack of thick theology books. It\u2019s Systematic Theology, Reformed Dogmatics, and all these intimidating [books]. Then I say, \u201cTell me about these books. Why won\u2019t you read them?\u201d They say all of these nice things, like, \u201cOh, it might be a little complicated.\u201d But eventually, they\u2019ll say, \u201cBecause it\u2019s boring,\u201d right? Because that\u2019s what they\u2019re really\u2014\r\n\r\nSo, I say, \u201cWell, why is that a problem?\u201d Because if God is actually boring\u201d\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014there it is!\r\n\r\nKelly: \u2014now we\u2019re\u2014you know, this is the living God! \r\n\r\nPart of it is you will work really hard in your Physics class, and you\u2019re willing to stretch your brain for that. You think it\u2019s important (or for History or whatever). But to think carefully about God, we [say], \u201cOh, that\u2019s inappropriate!\u201d That shows some problems for us. You don\u2019t have to have a high IQ to be a worshiper of God, but God is also not intimidated by our questions, by our wrestling, [or] by carefully wrestling through things. Theology matters because worship does, and we\u2019ve got to make sure we\u2019re \r\n\r\nworshipping the God Who is.\r\n\r\nDave: Okay, go there! We\u2019re all worshipers\u2014\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014whether you\u2019re a Christian or not.\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: I say that, and you say, \u201cYes!\u201d But you\u2019re the prof. [Laughter] Help us understand\u2014connect those two dots.\r\n\r\nKelly: I teach a whole semester for Upper Division students called Christology. It\u2019s all on the person and work of Jesus. Part of what we do at the beginning of the course, for a couple weeks, is \u201cJesus and History.\u201d It ends with me going over Jesus in movies over the last hundred years. It shows, visually, what we\u2019ve been talking about, and that is, if you watch Jesus in movies for the last one hundred years, you can clearly see how we\u2019re projecting Jesus exactly how we want Him to be.\r\n\r\nHe is this very white, pale, stoic figure early on. You have Jesus Christ, Superstar, right? And all of the sudden, He\u2019s this \u201870s figure!\r\n\r\nDave: [Singing] \u201cJesus. . . Superstar\u201d\r\n\r\nKelly: You can actually\u2014it\u2019s pretty powerful, and it\u2019s an example of, you know, students who often come in, and maybe their youth minister made Jesus seem like He\u2019s just wearing Levis\u00ae or whatever. It\u2019s not all bad, but we all make Jesus in our image, and we do that with God.\r\n\r\nSo, we want to think through ways in which we\u2019re being affected culturally. But it also could be (very commonly) that maybe you think of God the Father as angry and full of wrath all the time. The reality is\u2014one of the tests is\u2014\u201cIs prayer something that you\u2019re comfortable with?\u201d Because if you\u2019re in the presence of someone who\u2019s angry but is willing to put up with you because \u201cHis Son loves you,\u201d that\u2019s an example! \u201cJesus loves me, and He has died for me, so that convinced the Father to love me.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes, but the Father\u2019s still mad.\r\n\r\nKelly: Right, He\u2019s really mad. The Father\u2019s ticked, but He\u2019s just like, \u201cWell, I love my Son, so as long as my Son likes you, I\u2019m going to put up with you.\u201d Most people wouldn\u2019t put it that way, but that is surprisingly common. \r\n\r\nAnn: That would be their theology.\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes! That is your theology, which is deeply affecting your ability to pray, your ability to love your kids, your spouse; how you think about life; whether you constantly live under guilt and shame. So, what does God think about you? To answer that question, you\u2019ve got to talk about: \u201cWhat is this God actually like?\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Wouldn\u2019t that be a great dinner discussion, with kids at the table?\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: \u201cWhat do you think God thinks about you?\u201d\r\n\r\nKelly: That\u2019s a great question.\r\n\r\nAnn: Especially with teenagers, because, maybe, they haven\u2019t always made the best decisions. What would you have said, growing up, Dave?\r\n\r\nDave: Well, I mean, when you were saying that, Kelly, I was thinking, \u201cHe\u2019s absent. He doesn\u2019t care.\u201d\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: And it was somewhat a projection of my father, who walked out on our family when I was a little boy. But I know, as a preacher, I would often make grand statements from the Word of God about God, and these are attributes of God.\r\n\r\nKelly: Right.\r\n\r\nDave: He is present; He is holy; He is righteous.\r\n\r\nI remember a guy came up to me 35 years ago\u2014and I\u2019m glad he did!\u2014and he said, \u201cYes, I hear you said God\u2019s there, and He sees me, but does He care?\u201d I didn\u2019t get to that part of His heart that\u2019s revealed in Christ.\r\n\r\nKelly: Right, right.\r\n\r\nDave: It\u2019s like every second of that man\u2019s life and my life and your life, I\u2019m making decisions based on, \u201cOkay, He\u2019s up there. Does He see me? Does He care? Is He involved?\u201d\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cIs He a loving, tender Father?\u201d\r\n\r\nKelly: Exactly.\r\n\r\nDave: \u201cOr is He just a mean, cosmic killjoy?\u201d That\u2019s theology, right?\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: And what Ann just said\u2014boy, oh boy! How important it is for us as parents!\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: We\u2019re passing down what we believe about God, at the dinner table or wherever, right?\r\n\r\nKelly: Absolutely!\r\n\r\nAnn: So, Kelly, let\u2019s say we\u2019re at the dinner table, and one of our kids says, \u201cI feel like He\u2019s absent. I feel like He\u2019s disappointed.\u201d As parents, maybe, we\u2019re feeling the same way. What do you say to people who are struggling with wrong theology about who God is based on Scripture?\r\n\r\nKelly: For me, one of the pastoral approaches I would have is to ask more questions rather than to make statements.\r\n\r\nAnn: That\u2019s good!\r\n\r\nKelly: I think one of the things we get confused about with theology\u2014and as pastors and theologians, we totally fall into this all of the time; we think: \u201cWell, as long as you say the thing, then we\u2019re good,\u201d right? [Laughter] It\u2019s kind of like dealing with someone who\u2019s dealing with gossip. It\u2019s like, \u201cYou know what? I don\u2019t know if you know this, but God doesn\u2019t actually want you to dwell one that.\u201d And they say, \u201cOh! That\u2019s all I needed!\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Yes. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nKelly: \u201cI just needed to be reminded, \u2018God doesn\u2019t want you to slander someone behind their back.\u2019 Oh! Now that I know that. . .\u201d Right?\r\n\r\nAnn: So, you\u2019re not saying at the dinner table: \u201cWell, that\u2019s not who God is! This is who God is.\u201d\r\n\r\nKelly: Well, it\u2019s one of those examples of, we have to realize that sometimes you have to make the verses believable to the people you\u2019re talking to.\r\n\r\nAnn: What do you mean?\r\n\r\nKelly: It\u2019s not just quoting the verse, it\u2019s trying to help them imagine\u2014 When we, as parents, as imperfectly as we do, try to love the kids in the midst of their mess\u2014not acting as if the mess has no consequences, but loving them in this radical kind of way\u2014that starts to make it more believable, that that is true about God.\r\n\r\nBut I do find that\u2019s where the questions come in. I really like how you framed it: \u201cTell me, what do you think God thinks about you right now?\u201d Then you can actually speak to what\u2019s going on in the heart rather than presuming we know; because sometimes the kid\u2014maybe it\u2019s not that God is absent; maybe it\u2019s that God is overly concerned, [as if] God is this nit-picky God or something like that. So, you really have to ask in order to know what you even need to deal with.\r\n\r\nBut then, theologically for me, the big thing is always going back to Jesus. The way you prove that God actually does care is constantly going back to the very coming of the eternal Son of God, becoming one with us; really, in flesh, entering in and suffering and dying. That is God\u2019s great display of His \u201cforness\u201d for us; for His love for us.\r\n\r\nAnn: The gospel.\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes, that He is near; He is present. And now, He has poured out His Spirit on us. Getting back to Jesus constantly\u2014it sounds clich\u00e9, but that\u2019s really key. \r\n\r\nDave: Would that be your answer to how to build a good theology as opposed to\u2014there\u2019s bad theology! \r\n\r\nKelly: Oh, yes, for sure.\r\n\r\nDave: There\u2019s right and wrong theology.\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes, yes.\r\n\r\nDave: Is that how we get to building a theology proper; a good, solid, biblical, correct theology?\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes, I mean, from a Christian perspective, the fancy word is \u201cTrinitarian,\u201d because the God we worship\u2014you say, \u201cOkay, we worship God,\u201d but the God of the Bible\u2014is actually the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Interestingly enough, that God we worship, Who is Father, Son, and Spirit, biblically, the worship is directed toward Christ. The way you know the Father is to look to the Son, and the Spirit is often described as the Spirit of Christ.\r\n\r\nThat\u2019s not minimizing the Father or the Spirit by looking to the Son; that\u2019s actually who this God and how He\u2019s revealed Himself, Who He is. It is good and right to constantly get our gaze on Christ, and if it\u2019s not on Christ, then we tend to have\u2014that\u2019s the first sign of\u2014a problem.\r\n\r\nAnn: You\u2019re working with kids all the time, in college, who are experiencing and seeing the injustice and suffering in the world. I feel like this generation\u2014all generations, but Gen Z\u2014is feeling the pain and the angst of the world, oftentimes.\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: How, theologically, are you dealing with that? I\u2019m guessing that comes up in the classroom?\r\n\r\nKelly: It does; and it\u2019s an example of where it can go to extremes. The Bible has always cared about injustice, about suffering, and about poverty; and it does relate to theology. Sometimes, I\u2019ll ask students: \u201cExplain to me what it means to know God, but you have to\u2014I\u2019m a new Christian, and it has to be a Bible verse.\u201d They\u2019ll say all these good things, like, \u201cWell, it\u2019s about a relationship.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnd I\u2019ll say, \u201cNo, no, no. I just want the Bible.\u201d They say, \u201cOh, just give me a\u2014\u201d I say, \u201cWell, there is actually a verse that says, \u2018This is what it means to know Me, says the Lord.\u2019\u201d They\u2019re like, \u201cWhat?\u201d And it\u2019s in Jeremiah, and it\u2019s about Josiah. It says he cared about the poor, and he saw that injustice was dealt with. And it\u2019s the same kind of thing in James, where James says, \u201cThis is true religion.\u201d We\u2019re like, \u201cWhat\u2019s true religion?\u201d \u201cTo care for the widow, the orphaned, the distressed, and to keep yourself unstained by the world.\u201d\r\n\r\nSo, wait a minute! What does it mean to know God? We make it all this philosophical thing. Well, there\u2019s something about knowing God that\u2019s tied to caring for those who are hurting. It\u2019s Isaiah 1, where God is upset, because Israel thinks they know God, but by neglecting the orphan, the widow, the hurting, the marginalized, they\u2019ve distorted their understanding of who God is and of themselves.\r\n\r\nAll of that is a long way of saying, our actions shape our theology. And the Bible is pretty clear: when we neglect injustice, and we turn a blind eye to poverty and pain, it hurts our theology, because it starts to make us misunderstand God. We think, \u201cThat\u2019s those people.\u201d It\u2019s kind of like that question: \u201cThose people are excluded, but we\u2019re a bit better, and that\u2019s why God\u2014\u201d We would never say it, but that\u2019s what gets exposed.\r\n\r\nAnn: And I\u2019m always convicted when those verses come into play. You\u2019re also saying to these kids: \u201cAll those questions you\u2019re asking, God deeply cares about those things.\u201d\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes, exactly!\r\n\r\nAnn: Deeply! And maybe He\u2019s wanting to use us.\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes. And you\u2019ll learn about God by being involved in those things. That\u2019s part of the point. It seems to be, when James is saying, \u201cHere\u2019s true religion. . . because faith without works is dead. . . because if you say you have faith and do no works, the question is, What are you having faith in?\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nKelly: \u201cWho is this?\u201d I\u2019m a Protestant, and I believe in justification by faith alone, but the Bbile warns about distorting that faith. Interestingly enough, it\u2019s not because you\u2019re doing these things to earn God\u2019s favor, but in response to God\u2019s favor. If we\u2019re not involved in some meaningful way, then it can be a sign that we\u2019ve misunderstood His favor.\r\n\r\nAnn: Okay, I have one other question I\u2019d love to ask. Don\u2019t you love having a Professor in the studio? [Laughter] \r\n\r\nWe\u2019re living in a day where absolutes\u2014moral absolutes\u2014a lot of people would say, \u201cWell, that\u2019s your truth.\u201d\r\n\r\nKelly: Right.\r\n\r\nAnn: And I\u2019m guessing students, especially (though we\u2019ve done it for generations)\u2014are you getting any pushback: \u201cWell, that\u2019s your truth.\u201d The theology is your truth; the way you\u2019re viewing theology, I should say. But they\u2019re saying, \u201cThat\u2019s not my truth.\u201d\r\n\r\nKelly: Right.\r\n\r\nAnn: I have a whole different view of God, of being moral. That\u2019s happening more and more where they\u2019re saying there are no morals absolutes, or there are no absolutes. And Scripture! \u201cHa! There are no absolutes.\u201d \r\n\r\nKelly: Right.\r\n\r\nAnn: Are there absolutes?\r\n\r\nKelly: It\u2019s a very tricky question. It\u2019s trickier than people want to admit. \r\n\r\nAnn: Yes, and our kids\u2014don\u2019t you think our kids are asking these questions?\r\n\r\nKelly: Oh, they are asking! And I would encourage parents: rather than panicking, which is all of our first instinct\u2014\r\n\r\nAnn: \u2014oh, man! I was good at panicking. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nKelly: \u2014actually ask what they\u2019re asking. It doesn\u2019t mean they\u2019re right, but you\u2019re trying to understand, because God is absolute. His Word is trustworthy, authoritative, binding, etc. But we have lots of evidence in the history of the church of ways that we have taken the Bible in inappropriate ways. By being na\u00efve or ignorant of that fact, it hurts us. Sometimes, people are legitimately asking questions because the Church has confused some kind of cultural thing with an absolute, right?\r\n\r\nFor example, the history of missions\u2014missiology\u2014is a great field of this, where it really exposed this. We have letters of a missionary in Japan (and it was like the middle of the 19th Century), and he was talking about what God was doing. He said, \u201cBut so far from godly, because the men are still wearing skirts, and they\u2019re sitting on the floor despite our\u2014\u201d It's so offensive, but you realize, it\u2019s so clear to us: you confused a cultural thing with godliness! \r\n\r\nThe hard part for us is to figure out how we are doing it! What are ways\u2014yet, what are the things that are not? So, we just have to think through that carefully, right? What does that mean? Because we can\u2019t play fast and loose with Scripture, but we\u2019ve just got to make sure it\u2019s Scripture that\u2019s saying it, not something else.\r\n\r\nAnn: That\u2019s why we need theologians.\r\n\r\nKelly: That\u2019s right!\r\n\r\nAnn: Good theologians!\r\n\r\nKelly: That\u2019s right.\r\n\r\nDave: You are theologians.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes, but good theologians.\r\n\r\nDave: I would, you know, almost end here. You tell me your perspective. We need to be practical theologians. In other words, especially as we\u2019re thinking [about] marriage and family, as we sit at a dinner table or wherever (a family room), having a conversation with our teenaged or college-aged kids, and we don\u2019t live it\u2014\u201cGod is this,\u201d and we don\u2019t live it\u2014\r\n\r\nKelly: \u2014yes.\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014\u201cGod cares, God provides,\u201d and we are freaking out every day, and they\u2019re watching us. \u201cGod cares about the poor; He cares for justice,\u201d and they just don\u2019t see it lived out in their home, it\u2019s like theology, if it isn\u2019t lived, doesn\u2019t seem like it\u2019s even true. Is that true?\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes, I mean, you know it\u2019s true; but it\u2019s interesting to remind myself and others, when we say theology matters, and it\u2019s practical, we\u2019re not saying you actually need to be perfect. The good theology is showing your kids, \u201cI need to ask for forgiveness.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Yes.\r\n\r\nKelly: To say, \u201cI don\u2019t know.\u201d Whether it\u2019s about theology or something else, you are to let the kids see you begging God for things, and you wrestling with God for things. That\u2019s actually good theology. Theology is not about giving all the right answers, because we don\u2019t always have them.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes.\r\n\r\nKelly: It\u2019s to apologize when we have done something wrong to them, or maybe we realize, as life goes on, \u201cI\u2019ve misrepresented God to you. Here\u2019s a way that I presented Him, and it wasn\u2019t faithful.\u201d That helps your children!\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nKelly: You don\u2019t have to be perfect! You have to be honest with God and them. That\u2019s what you have to be.\r\n\r\nDave: That\u2019s being a real theologian.\r\n\r\nAnn: A real one.\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: It\u2019s interesting; our four-year-old grandson woke his dad up the other day. Cody reads his Bible in the mornings, and Bryce sees him doing that. He said the other day, he woke up and Bryce was standing right by his head. It was super early, like 5:30! But Bryce had his Bible in his hand, and he said, \u201cAre we getting up to spend time in the Bible this morning?\u201d [Laughter] \r\n\r\nYou know, Cody was like, \u201cYes, maybe not this early!\u201d \r\n\r\nKelly: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: But they did; they got up. I thought, \u201cMan, that\u2019s the start of it!\u201d Isn\u2019t it?\r\n\r\nKelly: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: When our kids see that we\u2019re in the Bible, we\u2019re trusting it, we need it; we\u2019re not perfect. That\u2019s theology: knowing who God is in a healthy way.\r\n\r\nShelby: I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Kelly Kapic on FamilyLife Today. You know, I really want to hear how Kelly responds to what Ann just said in her story, but first, he\u2019s written a book called A Little Book for New Theologians: Why and How to Study Theology. You know, this book offers a concise introduction to the study of theology for newcomers to the field; people who, maybe, think theology is boring or they\u2019ll never be someone who studies it.\r\n\r\nIn the book, he highlights the value and importance of theological study and explains its unique nature as a serious discipline for us as followers of Jesus. You can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the \u201cToday\u2019s Resources\u201d link to get a copy or get the link in the show notes. Or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Or you could feel free to drop us something in the mail, too. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832.\r\n\r\nI know that some of you have actually already been to a Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage getaway, but we just wanted to make sure that you\u2019ve heard that there\u2019s a lot that has changed recently. We have a new speaker line-up, and entirely different guidebook, and so much of the getaway has been changed and intentionally curated for you and your spouse to grow together like never before. Right now would be a great time to head back to a Weekend to Remember, and now through January 22nd, all getaways are 50% off. You can find a date and location that works for you at WeekendtoRemember.com.\r\n\r\nOkay, kids don\u2019t want to go to bed when they\u2019re young. They just don\u2019t! You know this, right? But they often ask thoughtful questions right before bedtime that we should pay attention to. Kelly Kapic had that happen to him. \r\n\r\nKelly: I would often, at bedtime, take the kids upstairs, read them a Bible story, and pray for them, and then I was like, \u201cYay! I get to go watch ESPN!\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes!\r\n\r\nKelly: \u201cThe day is finally done!\u201d But as you know, when they\u2019re little, that\u2019s often when they want to talk, because they don\u2019t want to go to bed.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nKelly: Which is great and terrible, right? [Laughter] I\u2019ll never forget one night\u2014my son and daughter, for a long time when they were young, were in the same room\u2014I was leaving, and I heard my son say, \u201cPapa, I have a question.\u201d I thought, \u201cNot tonight.\u201d [Laughter] I was already turned toward the door, and I was leaving. But I could tell something in his voice. I turned around, and he said, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I love God.\u201d I thought, \u201cOkay, here we go!\u201d You know, \u201cI\u2019m coming back. Forget ESPN!\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nKelly: And he said, \u201cI know I love you and Mama, but I don\u2019t even know what it means to love God. I don\u2019t know what it means for God to love me.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Wow.\r\n\r\nKelly: All of the sudden, I was thinking, \u201cThat\u2019s such an amazing theological question!\u201d We all think we know what the answer is, but you don\u2019t know what the answer is until you have to work and explain it to a little kid, right? \r\n\r\nThere is something very beautiful about that, where he could say that and not have panic, and start to talk about what God\u2019s love looks like and how he can experience it.\r\n\r\nAnn: We\u2019re all thinking, \u201cWhat did you say?!\u201d\r\n\r\nKelly: Well, it was interesting; I had to think, and I said, \u201cYou know, when you\u2019re playing with Ruby [our dog], or you and I are wrestling on the couch and we\u2019re giggling, or you\u2019re doing this with Mama, the love you\u2019re experiencing is an extension of God\u2019s love. That\u2019s not something different; that is a taste of God\u2019s love. And it\u2019s even bigger and greater than that. That cold orange you\u2019re eating on a hot summer day is a taste of God\u2019s love.\u201d \r\n\r\nIn all of that, it\u2019s training him to see God present throughout the world, and to lift his gaze to start to see God\u2019s love.\r\n\r\nShelby: What does it look like to explore the transformative concept of being whole, challenging stereotypes about poverty and generosity? Well, Kelly Kapic is going to be back tomorrow with Dave and Ann Wilson, along with his wife Tabitha, to talk about just that. We hope you\u2019ll join us.\r\n\r\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?  Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\r\n\r\nwww.FamilyLife                                 \r\n\r\n\n","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/280355","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=280355"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280866"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=280355"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=280355"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=280355"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=280355"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=280355"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=280355"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}