{"id":280347,"date":"2024-01-23T10:15:00","date_gmt":"2024-01-23T15:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/is-your-marriage-too-far-gone-jd-veronica-greear\/"},"modified":"2025-04-29T15:19:27","modified_gmt":"2025-04-29T19:19:27","slug":"is-your-marriage-too-far-gone-jd-veronica-greear","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-your-marriage-too-far-gone-jd-veronica-greear\/","title":{"rendered":"Is Your Marriage Too Far Gone? JD &#038; Veronica Greear"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Struggling in marriage? JD and Veronica Greear offer real-life hope. Re-learn the transformative power of the gospel in healing deep wounds.<\/p>\n<p>J.D. and Veronica Greear are two of FamilyLife&#8217;s guest contributors to the all-new Art of Marriage group study! To learn more or order your copy, visit <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/art-of-marriage\/home\/?utm_source=FLTandutm_medium=show+notesandutm_campaign=AOM+Launch\" fetchpriority=\"high\">artofmarriage.com.<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Struggling in marriage? JD and Veronica Greear offer real-life hope. Re-learn the transformative power of the gospel in healing deep wounds. J.D. and Veronica Greear are two of FamilyLife&#8217;s guest contributors to the all-new Art of Marriage group study! To&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280866,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/1168de60-ce31-4ec8-9c00-b154011c80d1\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:39","filesize":"24.43M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-01-23 10:15:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[8725],"cwp_profile":[9391],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-280347","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","podcast_series-the-book-of-romans-in-the-21st-century-jd-veronica-greear","cwp_profile-jd-greear","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/280347\/is-your-marriage-too-far-gone-jd-veronica-greear","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/280347\/is-your-marriage-too-far-gone-jd-veronica-greear","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"AagBsueJAA\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-your-marriage-too-far-gone-jd-veronica-greear\/\">Is Your Marriage Too Far Gone? 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This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["MS-012995"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/1168de60-ce31-4ec8-9c00-b154011c80d1\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:26:39"],"filesize":["24.43M"],"_thumbnail_id":["280866"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li>Connect with JD &amp; Veronica Greear and catch more of their thoughts at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/jdgreear.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">jdgreear.com<\/a>,\u00a0Also find them on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/pastorjdgreear\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Instagram<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Listen to their podcast \"<a href=\"https:\/\/pod.link\/1439220729\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ask Me Anything<\/a>\"<\/li>\n<li>Listen to Summit Life through his radio podcast, a daily, 25-minute program with Pastor J.D. Greear:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/jdgreear.com\/summit-life\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">jdgreear.com\/summit-life<\/a><\/li>\n<li>And grab their book,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/essential-christianity-the-transforming-power-of-the-gospel-in-ten-simple-words\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Essential Christianity<\/a>\u00a0in our shop.<\/li>\n<li>Intrigued by today\u2019s episode? Think deeper about\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/?s=marriage&amp;post_type=wpfc_sermon\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Marriage<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Want to hear more episodes by\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/JD-Greear\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">JD Greear<\/a>, listen here!<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Apple Podcast<\/a>\u00a0or\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-01-23.pdf"],"transcript_content":["<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>Is Your Marriage Too Far Gone?<\/p>\n<p>Guests:J.D. and Veronica Greear<\/p>\n<p>From the series:The Book of Romans in the 21st Century (Day 2 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:January 23, 2024<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: The gospel is going to teach you to think of yourself, first of all, as sinner, and only secondly, as sinned against, which doesn\u2019t mean you don\u2019t have to deal with where they sinned against you, because that\u2019s a conversation you need to have; but it means you do so out of the context of, \u201cI will never have to forgive you of anything close to what God has forgiven me of.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So, if you were talking to some newlyweds, and they said, \u201cWe\u2019re Christians, and we want to live out the gospel in our marriage,\u201d what would you say?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019d say, \u201cYou will live out the gospel in your marriage.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, don\u2019t worry!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, it\u2019s going to happen.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: One way or the other.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No matter what! But you\u2019ll have to be faced with the question, \u201cCan you give grace the way Jesus has given us grace?\u201d That will be the pinnacle. When you can learn to do that, and love lavishly, whew! That\u2019s a powerhouse marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. We\u2019ve got J.D. and Veronica Greear back in the studio. You\u2019ve already heard them laughing over there at our comments. [Laughter] In fact, let me introduce you. You\u2019re the pastor of Summit Church in North Carolina; four kids; married 38 years\u2014no, 23, right? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Something like that, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Twenty-three.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What\u2019s your podcast?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: My podcast?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: So, I have Summit Life. It\u2019s our preaching and teaching podcast, but I have another one called Ask Me Anything.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s the one I wondered about.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes; it\u2019s a series of questions that we just get from listeners. I [thought], \u201cI just need to start turning on the mic when\u2014\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014it\u2019s like 15 minutes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes, Ask Me Anything.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s great! Well, we\u2019re going to ask you this [Laughter]: how would you counsel that newlywed couple who say, \u201cWe really want to live out the gospel?\u201d Ann gave her answer. Do you have another nuance on that? What\u2019s it going to look like?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I would say \u201cyes,\u201d I do think you\u2019re going to live out the gospel.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What does that mean, though?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: What does that mean? Okay.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, let\u2019s take this out of the Christian language, ethereal, realm. I would say there are going to be days where it feels like this person is the problem in your life. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: And if that person was not creating a problem in your life, your life would be great! That\u2019s how it\u2019s going to feel sometimes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: He\u2019s felt like that about me; I\u2019ve felt like this about him.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I have actually said those words: \u201cThe problem in our marriage\u2014\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201c\u2014is you!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201c\u2014is Dave!\u201d And when he would get his act together, we would be great!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, 100%, that\u2019s going to happen. And I don\u2019t think I really thought that was true going into marriage. I\u2019m kind of a\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014I didn\u2019t either.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014I can be a little Pollyanna-ish: \u201cIt\u2019s going to be great! It\u2019s going to be great!\u201d So, I think I would say to that person, \u201cDo you expect that?\u201d And \u201cin that moment, are you willing to say, \u2018No, God is at work in my life, and this is actually His will for my life. This right here! Him being the problem in my life, in my view, right now\u2019?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Your husband, in other words.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, your husband being the problem, to you, is actually designed by God for something that He is trying to do in you. And if you can say that, can you actually take it even a step further, and say, \u201cThank you\u201d for that?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Whew!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It took me a while to get there.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Me, too.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It took me a couple\u2014a few\u2014years to [think], \u201cOh, no; this really is something He\u2019s doing\u201d and, you know, for a while, I was [thinking], \u201cI don\u2019t really want that!\u201d [Laughter] \u201cI don\u2019t actually\u2014I want it to be happy and blissful and rainbows over here. I\u2019m fun! Why aren\u2019t you having fun?!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>And he was saying, \u201cYou are going to burn us down. You really are.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Isn\u2019t it true, though, and you don\u2019t see it coming.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wait! Did you think that? \u201cYou\u2019re going to burn us down?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cBurn us down!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: He thought that about me, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: And I was like, \u201cI\u2019m trying to have a good time! But you don\u2019t seem to be having a good time.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: My biggest thing in all this\u2014this was about three years into our marriage; maybe two or three; it was early\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cIt\u2019s going to burn us down!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: We went in to see a counselor, not because we were on the last leg (yet), but just because we needed to see a counselor. Anyway, after really kind of expressing to this counselor, who was a Christian counselor, some disappointment, anger, and frustration we had with each other, over the course of an hour, he said, \u201cYou know, I think the problem with both of you is\u201d\u2014he said\u2014\u201dboth of you think of yourself as first sinned against, and second, sinner.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He said, \u201cYou know, the tickertape in both of your brains is on the other person\u2019s flaws; and the flaws you\u2019re pointing out are mostly correct. You know, they do have those flaws.\u201d He said, \u201cBut the gospel is going to teach you to think of yourself, first of all, as sinner, and only secondly, as sinned against, which doesn\u2019t mean you don\u2019t have to deal with where they sinned against you, because that\u2019s a conversation you need to have; but it means you do so out of the context of, \u2018I will never have to forgive you of anything close to what God has forgiven me of\u2019.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: And he said, \u201cThat will change how you relate to each other when you think of yourselves as \u2018first sinner.\u2019\u201d Now, I\u2019m the man in Jesus\u2019 parable who was forgiven 10,000 talents, and now, I\u2019m being asked to forgive $1.50.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: And it changed, I think, both of us to say, \u201cI\u2019m going to expect that we have to show grace in this relationship, because that\u2019s the kind of God we serve. He shows grace to us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, that\u2019s so good.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So good!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Because we get married, and our eyes are on them, not us.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: At first, it\u2019s great, because they\u2019re so amazingly wonderful, and then, we see stuff. [Laughter] A year ago, Ann took me to Vegas, and we saw John Legend. He\u2019s got this song we all love, you know? [Singing] \u201cAll of me, loves all of you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, such a good one.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m not going to sing the whole thing. Here\u2019s what happens: you get married, and you\u2019re married, maybe, three years or six months or whatever, and it becomes, \u201cHalf of me, loves none of you.\u201d [Laughter] \u201cAll your quirks and accusations make me want to take a vacation.\u201d I mean, it\u2019s like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It switches! It switches.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It totally switches.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But there\u2019s truth in that. What you said about seeing the sin in me\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014first.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014is where you start; that changes everything!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Did you\u2014were you guys able to start doing that after that counselor\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014some of these things are\u2014you say it one time, and everything\u2019s different.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Boom, done!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, I wish it were.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: But it\u2019s daily\u2014you know, Martin Lloyd-Jones, the old preacher used to talk about the importance of preaching the gospel to yourself every day.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: So, yes, we preach the gospel to ourselves each day. We\u2019re telling ourselves that. And we\u2019ve grown in it. There are still moments when I\u2019m angrier about her sin than I am mine, you know? But I will say that, now, I can say\u201423 years into marriage\u2014I never knew what it was like to love a sinner until I got married. [Laughter] I\u2019m not talking about Veronica.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: I\u2019m talking about God\u2019s love of me, because I\u2019m realizing how much grace there was that God showed. That\u2019s part of what we\u2019ve been talking about. It\u2019s ultimately the gospel that makes you a better spouse.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And we\u2019re talking about your book, Essential Christianity: The Heart of the Gospel in Ten Words.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Now, is this the word \u201crefusal?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: The word \u201crefusal.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Is that sort of what we\u2019re talking about?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Well\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014because I read it, and I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s about sin. The world is broken by sin; but maybe I missed it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: You can get there!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: You can get there from it, but specifically, it raises a question that\u2014to switch gears a little bit here; the question that\u2014a lot of people in deconstruction ask, which is, \u201cIf there really is a God, then why doesn\u2019t everybody believe Him? Why are there so many intelligent, very moral, Atheists in the world?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Or people from different religions. What the Apostle Paul explains is that, ultimately, what our head ends up believing, our heart is conditioned to believe. The problem, he explains, is in the human heart. It\u2019s not better information or better education; it\u2019s a transformation of the heart.<\/p>\n<p>So, what we need as fallen sinners is not better technique or better education. What we need is transformation, and that\u2019s only going to come through the gospel. The way you get there, when you\u2019re talking about marriage, is, I know that we can go to all the wonderful weekends\u2014Weekend to Remember\u00ae\u2014and these incredible (whether they\u2019re FamilyLife or other things), we need the power of the Holy Spirit renewing us in the gospel.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: That\u2019s what Paul says in Romans. I talk about that in this book: the pivotal point in Romans is in Romans 12:1, where he says, \u201cTherefore.\u201d The first eleven chapters of Romans are all about the gospel are all about the gospel.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: The last five chapters of Romans are all about how you should live\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014\u201ctherefore,\u201d yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014and how you should treat your spouse. The hinge between those two sections is the word \u201ctherefore.\u201d In light of what God has done for you, this is how you can begin to come toward one another.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: When you get to a place in your marriage\u2014and maybe you haven\u2019t felt this; I know I\u2019ve felt this\u2014\u201cI can\u2019t. I can\u2019t love her like I know I want to, and I should. I preach this, and I know this from the Word of God; but right now, it\u2019s almost like I\u2019m stuck. I need the power of God. I don\u2019t know if I want it right now, but I need it.\u201d Have you ever been there? And if you are, how do you navigate through that?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I think, one, you should always own that; always own that to God first and say, \u201cI don\u2019t really want this. I know I need it, but I don\u2019t really want it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: To be truthful.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes! \u201cCan you help me want that? Can you change me?\u201d I do that a lot in my life, not just in my marriage. \u201cHelp me want the right things.\u201d So, I think that\u2019s the first thing: to be really honest about your feelings. The second thing is, and this is more like an action\u2014that\u2019s an action, too, but this is more an action on a day-to-day basis: if you do one thing [in a] loving [way], that starts to change, slowly.<\/p>\n<p>This is a long-term thing you\u2019re going to be doing here. This is not going to be fixed in a day or a week when you\u2019re just at a really difficult place. You know, your feelings do follow your actions. This is assuming this is a base-level of conflict. I think it\u2019s important to always say there are some situations this would not be applicable to.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: That are outside the realm of an average sinner married to an average sinner. No one is at risk here.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: You\u2019re not talking about abusive situations.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: No, right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: If you think you could be, you should get help immediately in that situation.<\/p>\n<p>But, you know, I think your actions begin to dictate your feelings.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes; you know, the Law\u2014whenever you think about how you ought to act, that\u2019s what the Bible refers to as \u201cthe Law.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: It\u2019s the standard of righteousness. It has a protective purpose in us, so that, even when I don\u2019t feel like it, I will obey the Law\u2014God\u2019s Law\u2014because that\u2019s just must better for me and for the people I love if I am obeying God\u2019s laws. But the Law is not\u2014in that sense, I call it \u201cthe curb.\u201d It\u2019s to curb your behavior; but it\u2019s also a mirror to reveal what your heart is not.<\/p>\n<p>So, when I find my heart craving selfishness where it should crave generosity, when it\u2019s craving stinginess where it should be feeling feelings of love, I go ahead and do the loving thing. That\u2019s the Law; but my heart is crying out, saying, \u201cGod, I need You to change my heart so that this stuff becomes instinctive to me; where I just do it!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: I mean, Jesus never had to force Himself to obey. His heart always desired that. And what God wants\u2014I explain this in the sense of Christianity: God\u2019s not just after obedience. He\u2019s after a whole new kind of obedience; an obedience that grows out of desire; an obedience where you love your spouse because that\u2019s what you do! You love your spouse because your heart loves it!<\/p>\n<p>Martin Luther talked about the \u201cdilemma of the Great Commandment.\u201d The Great Commandments of \u201clove God with all our heart and love our neighbor as ourselves.\u201d He said the dilemma of that commandment is [that] God is commanding you to do something that, by definition, cannot be commanded. He said, \u201cThink about it. If you love something, you don\u2019t need a command to do it.\u201d You never have to command me to eat a steak, take a nap, watch football, or kiss my wife. I just desire those things.<\/p>\n<p>Luther said, \u201cThe other side of that is, if you don\u2019t love something, then no command can ever make you love it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: So, what you\u2019re doing is, as you\u2019re obeying, you\u2019re crying out to God, saying, \u201cGod, I\u2019m obeying, but I need You to transform me from within so that I become the kind of person who does righteousness because I crave righteousness, and I choose love because I feel love and I am love.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019ve shared here before, but times when I want to treat\u2014or be kind\u2014to Ann, and I\u2019m not being. I have to ask, literally, in that moment, \u201cGod, my heart has been transformed! I am in Christ. So, this isn\u2019t behavior that matches who I am in Christ, but it\u2019s matching who I was before.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>For the listener who says God won\u2019t be in that moment, He will meet you in that moment.\u201d Again, it could look different. I remember\u2014I\u2019ve shared here before\u2014sitting on a park bench in a public [place], and we were in some fight, years ago. I am wrong! [Laughter] She has already told me 18 times, but I am at the point, now, where I realize: \u201cI\u2019ve said things that were hurtful and harsh.\u201d She\u2019s sitting right here [motioning beside himself], and I know, \u201cAll she needs from me is tenderness.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So, I preach the gospel to myself: \u201cGod, you\u2019ve been tender to me. I need to be tender to her.\u201d Everything in me is like, \u201cI can\u2019t do it! I don\u2019t want to do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Been there!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I remember sitting there, watching all these people walk by. We\u2019re in public, so you can\u2019t really\u2014you\u2019re sort of hiding this thing! But all of these people are walking around, and they\u2019re smiling and laughing. Here\u2019s what I\u2019m thinking: \u201cYou bunch of losers!\u201d [Laughter] \u201cYou\u2019re not happy! You\u2019re just faking it,\u201d you know?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Lies!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cEverybody\u2019s feeling what I\u2019m feeling!\u201d But I\u2019ll never forget\u2014I don\u2019t know why it\u2019s so clear in my mind\u2014[thinking], \u201cGod, I can\u2019t muster this up in myself. I know I need to love her like she deserves to be loved. Would you give me that, right here, right now?\u201d And He did!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, He will.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: There are times where God will take a hard heart, and if you really repent and say, \u201cI\u2019m wrong. I need you,\u201d there\u2019s transformation.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It\u2019s already yours, but to experience it in that moment; again, it doesn\u2019t happen every single day\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014but it can.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It can.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And that\u2019s what you\u2019re saying; that\u2019s the gospel!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was going to say, there\u2019s something about the obedience of following what God has called us to do in the gospel. I just got over being sick for about six days, and when you don\u2019t feel well physically, everything\u2019s hard. It\u2019s like your eyes are on yourself and your pain.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: So true!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I thought of that as I was walking last night. I felt dry spiritually, and even when you\u2019re dry, it\u2019s that heart of, \u201cBut I know that I\u2019m going to get in the Word. I\u2019m going to do what God has called me to do and obey\u2014because I\u2019ve had years of doing that\u2014knowing that, even when my heart doesn\u2019t feel like it, because I\u2019ve had something physical going on, I\u2019m still going to spend time with Jesus and read the word, because it is the gospel that is our hope, as we spend time with Him.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: He renews our mind, He renews our heart, and He transforms our thoughts and our hearts instead of conforming to the world.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Absolutely!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, talk about one of your words; it\u2019s \u201cstruggle.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What I wrote down in my notes beside it is, \u201cThere is a new me that needs to be embraced, and an old me that needs to be left behind.\u201d There\u2019s this\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014I like that battle.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014we\u2019re talking about it right now: that struggle! Is that what the gospel looks like?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes. I mean, it\u2019s one of the most encouraging chapters in the book of Romans to me personally.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Essential Christianity is not a commentary on Romans, but it\u2019s just taking these questions that Paul is raising and re-asking them in modern-day terms. One of the things Paul basically says is, \u201cIf Christianity is true, why is it so hard? Why is it that, after I\u2019ve learned the right things and chosen the right things, it still comes as such a struggle?\u201d And what he\u2019s going to explain is that the way that God saves us is, He gives us a new heart, but that new heart is within what He calls the flesh, which is the old body.<\/p>\n<p>The bad news is that this flesh, this sinful flesh, is going to be with you until the day that you die. It\u2019s going to remain every bit as sinful as it ever was. The moment you stop dying to it, it will take you into\u2014it could be all the old sins, or it could be worse than the old sins!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It\u2019s kind of depressing!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It is!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: It is depressing.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It is.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Here\u2019s depressing\/encouraging!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right, at the same time!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: John Newton, who wrote the song, Amazing Grace, when he was 86 years old\u2014there\u2019s a little book of letters that you can read; it\u2019s called The Letters of John Newton, and it\u2019s got one that he wrote to another, younger pastor in his 30s (when he was in his 80s). He said to this other pastor\u2014he said, \u201cYou know, I find it depressing sometimes, because I thought that, by 86, I would no longer struggle with all these different sins.\u201d He said, \u201cSome of those desires in me are stronger and more sinful than ever.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Depressing.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: I\u2019m like, \u201cAt 80?!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, come on.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Come on!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Really? Seriously? I thought at that point, I was going to just sit around and hum\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014praise songs!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Amazing Grace!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014all day; yes. But he said, \u201cWhat I\u2019ve realized is that God allows us to continue to struggle against the flesh because growth in grace is not getting past a point where you need grace. It\u2019s growth in your awareness of how badly you do need it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So, God will let certain temptations stay with you\u2014and certain struggles\u2014because He doesn\u2019t want you, this side of the resurrection, to ever get to a point where you say, \u201cI\u2019m good! I\u2019ve got it!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Paul\u2019s thorn in the flesh.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: He wants you to still be able to sing, \u201cAmazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me.\u201d I even feel like, in the context of marriage, that\u2019s part of what\u2014you know, there\u2019s nothing that reveals my sinfulness and selfishness\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014for sure!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014more than my marriage. God uses it as a crucible to say, \u201cHey, here\u2019s how badly you needed saving, and you continue to need saving.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And at the same time, isn\u2019t it true that\u2014I remember Tim Keller writing this in The Meaning of Marriage\u2014part of the purpose of our marriages is to become like Christ. He uses our spouse as a sharpening brother\/sister, really, who comes alongside and says, \u201cI see things. I love you, I affirm you; but I see something.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cNobody else sees it. The congregation doesn\u2019t see it. They think you\u2019re awesome! But I see it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So, it\u2019s a gift because it\u2019s making us, what Keller says, \u201cour glory-selves.\u201d When we\u2019re in glory, face-to-face, we\u2019re going to finally be like Him. Well, we\u2019re on a journey to then.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Is that what you\u2019ve seen even in your own marriage: this sharpening taking place?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Oh, absolutely! We\u2019re pretty opposite in just how we sort of approach life. Our values are the same, which is what has sustained us, right? [Giggling] But we\u2014our approach to life can be pretty different. So, I can make him crazy; he can make me crazy.<\/p>\n<p>Having to hash those things out in how we\u2019re going to parent, how we\u2019re going to run our household, how we\u2019re going to run our schedule, how we\u2019re going to do trips, how we\u2019re going to\u2014just everything!\u2014relate with people; in the hashing out, I\u2019m also a conflict-avoider, and he [says], \u201cWhy would you ever avoid it? Just get after it!\u201d So, we\u2019ve had to learn. That\u2019s kind of where that \u201cmedium way\u201d is better for us, and better for our kids.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Some of the strengths are complementary, and that\u2019s just how God makes us.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: For sure.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: And then, some of them are [things] where the other spouse reveals your sinfulness and selfishness in it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Because whatever\u2014you know, you\u2019ve heard this before: \u201cWhatever your virtue is, is your vice.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: For sure.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: She loves people immediately, and that\u2019s the most important thing in the world. I mean, that\u2019s a beautiful part of how God made her.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: The details can get lost.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: The vice is, you know, you\u2019re not getting from Point A to Point B. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>My virtue is\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014\u201cWe\u2019re going to get there!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014\u201cWe\u2019re going to get from Point A to Point B.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: That\u2019s right!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: But it is, \u201cWho do we run over? Who do we not think about?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: So, there is both a complementary nature in how God made us, but there\u2019s also a revelation of un-Christlikeness that comes through the other.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s both.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes. So, that has been really good. I mean, he has made me better in all of those things, and I\u2019ve made him better in all those things.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: As we\u2019re talking about Romans, what\u2019s your favorite verse? What do you think, J.D.?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: I love\u2014I\u2019m deeply moved by\u2014Romans 1:14, where Paul says, \u201cI\u2019m a debtor to those who have never heard.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Since college! That\u2019s been since college.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Since college.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Really?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes, because you think about \u201cdebtor.\u201d It means you owe somebody; you\u2019re under obligation; you\u2019re no longer free. When you owe the credit card company tens of thousands of dollars, then you\u2019re not free to do what you want. Your money, in a sense, belongs to them. You know, Paul said, \u201cWhen it comes to the gospel; when I think about the gift that God gave me and how much I didn\u2019t deserve it, I owe it to those who have never heard to have a chance to hear.\u201d [Paraphrased]<\/p>\n<p>I tell college students (we have a lot of them who go to our church), \u201cYour generation\u2014Gen Z, and Millennials, also\u2014is moved by justice issues.\u201d And they should be!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: We need to be involved in justice issues all over the world, of all kinds. But according to Paul, the greatest injustice that has ever taken place is for somebody to know the gospel and to not share it with those who haven\u2019t. So, when Paul goes from verse 14 to saying, \u201cI\u2019m not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, because it is the power of God unto salvation for everybody who believes\u201d [Romans 1:16]\u2014<\/p>\n<p>When I think about what the gospel has done in our marriage, when I think about how it saved our marriage\u2014I think we can say that; I\u2019m not sure where we\u2019d be if it hadn\u2019t been for coming back to the gospel. We might be a statistic, divorced. When I think about the way I\u2019ve seen it work in people\u2019s lives, there\u2019s just nothing greater to give your life to than to knowing the gospel, teaching it to your kids, and making sure everybody in this generation knows and has a chance to believe.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Man, I just love that important truth from J.D. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with J.D. Greear and Veronica Greear on FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>J.D. has written a book called Essential Christianity: The Heart of the Gospel in Ten Words. This book really explores the transformative power of the gospel in addressing life\u2019s really profound questions and rediscovering the joy and depth of the Christian faith for modern individuals. You can go online to get a copy at FamilyLifeToday.com. Click on the \u201cToday\u2019s Resources\u201d link; or you can get the link in the show notes; or you can give us a call to get a copy at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, while you\u2019re on FamilyLifeToday.com, there\u2019s a little button at the top of the page that says, \u201cDonate Now.\u201d When you do that, you become a partner with us. There are different types of partners who give to the ministry of FamilyLife. There are one-time gift partners and then, there are monthly partners. The cool thing about being a monthly partner is, when you do, you become part of a group with some exclusive benefits. You get insider ministry updates about new products and pre-releases, and exclusive viewing opportunities. You get access to our new curated, topical library from some of the most compassionate minds across the ministry. And when you do sign up to become a monthly partner, you get a free Weekend to Remember gift card.<\/p>\n<p>So, I really encourage you to hop online, go to FamilyLifeToday.com, click on the \u201cDonate Now\u201d button at the top of the page, and become a monthly partner to help make this ministry what it is by continuing to reach marriages and families.<\/p>\n<p>Now, coming up tomorrow, J.D. and Veronica Greear are back to talk about building gospel-centered marriages in ministry. What does it look like to embrace vulnerability, intentionality, and community support? The Greears are going to be here with the Wilsons to talk about just that tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs? Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n"],"_edit_lock":["1745954452:47000"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_03c1ba10775963cad8fb109f10c1c7ebd277ef5a":["\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Name\" type=\"name\"  required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Email\" type=\"email\" required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Website\" type=\"url\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Message\" type=\"textarea\" \/]"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_atts_03c1ba10775963cad8fb109f10c1c7ebd277ef5a":["a:17:{s:2:\"to\";s:29:\"margaret.coyle@familylife.com\";s:7:\"subject\";s:81:\"[FamilyLife - A Cru Ministry] Is Your Marriage Too Far Gone? 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in marriage? JD and Veronica Greear offer real-life hope. Re-learn the transformative power of the gospel in healing deep wounds. J.D. and Veronica Greear are two of FamilyLife's guest contributors to the all-new Art of Marriage group study! To...","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Connect with JD &amp; Veronica Greear and catch more of their thoughts at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/jdgreear.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">jdgreear.com<\/a>,\u00a0Also find them on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/pastorjdgreear\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Instagram<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Listen to their podcast \"<a href=\"https:\/\/pod.link\/1439220729\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ask Me Anything<\/a>\"<\/li>\n<li>Listen to Summit Life through his radio podcast, a daily, 25-minute program with Pastor J.D. Greear:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/jdgreear.com\/summit-life\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">jdgreear.com\/summit-life<\/a><\/li>\n<li>And grab their book,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/essential-christianity-the-transforming-power-of-the-gospel-in-ten-simple-words\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Essential Christianity<\/a>\u00a0in our shop.<\/li>\n<li>Intrigued by today\u2019s episode? Think deeper about\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/?s=marriage&amp;post_type=wpfc_sermon\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Marriage<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Want to hear more episodes by\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/JD-Greear\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">JD Greear<\/a>, listen here!<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Apple Podcast<\/a>\u00a0or\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-01-23.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>Is Your Marriage Too Far Gone?<\/p>\n<p>Guests:J.D. and Veronica Greear<\/p>\n<p>From the series:The Book of Romans in the 21st Century (Day 2 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:January 23, 2024<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: The gospel is going to teach you to think of yourself, first of all, as sinner, and only secondly, as sinned against, which doesn\u2019t mean you don\u2019t have to deal with where they sinned against you, because that\u2019s a conversation you need to have; but it means you do so out of the context of, \u201cI will never have to forgive you of anything close to what God has forgiven me of.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So, if you were talking to some newlyweds, and they said, \u201cWe\u2019re Christians, and we want to live out the gospel in our marriage,\u201d what would you say?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019d say, \u201cYou will live out the gospel in your marriage.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, don\u2019t worry!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, it\u2019s going to happen.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: One way or the other.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No matter what! But you\u2019ll have to be faced with the question, \u201cCan you give grace the way Jesus has given us grace?\u201d That will be the pinnacle. When you can learn to do that, and love lavishly, whew! That\u2019s a powerhouse marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. We\u2019ve got J.D. and Veronica Greear back in the studio. You\u2019ve already heard them laughing over there at our comments. [Laughter] In fact, let me introduce you. You\u2019re the pastor of Summit Church in North Carolina; four kids; married 38 years\u2014no, 23, right? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Something like that, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Twenty-three.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What\u2019s your podcast?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: My podcast?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: So, I have Summit Life. It\u2019s our preaching and teaching podcast, but I have another one called Ask Me Anything.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s the one I wondered about.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes; it\u2019s a series of questions that we just get from listeners. I [thought], \u201cI just need to start turning on the mic when\u2014\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014it\u2019s like 15 minutes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes, Ask Me Anything.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s great! Well, we\u2019re going to ask you this [Laughter]: how would you counsel that newlywed couple who say, \u201cWe really want to live out the gospel?\u201d Ann gave her answer. Do you have another nuance on that? What\u2019s it going to look like?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I would say \u201cyes,\u201d I do think you\u2019re going to live out the gospel.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What does that mean, though?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: What does that mean? Okay.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, let\u2019s take this out of the Christian language, ethereal, realm. I would say there are going to be days where it feels like this person is the problem in your life. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: And if that person was not creating a problem in your life, your life would be great! That\u2019s how it\u2019s going to feel sometimes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: He\u2019s felt like that about me; I\u2019ve felt like this about him.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I have actually said those words: \u201cThe problem in our marriage\u2014\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201c\u2014is you!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201c\u2014is Dave!\u201d And when he would get his act together, we would be great!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, 100%, that\u2019s going to happen. And I don\u2019t think I really thought that was true going into marriage. I\u2019m kind of a\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014I didn\u2019t either.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014I can be a little Pollyanna-ish: \u201cIt\u2019s going to be great! It\u2019s going to be great!\u201d So, I think I would say to that person, \u201cDo you expect that?\u201d And \u201cin that moment, are you willing to say, \u2018No, God is at work in my life, and this is actually His will for my life. This right here! Him being the problem in my life, in my view, right now\u2019?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Your husband, in other words.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, your husband being the problem, to you, is actually designed by God for something that He is trying to do in you. And if you can say that, can you actually take it even a step further, and say, \u201cThank you\u201d for that?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Whew!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It took me a while to get there.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Me, too.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It took me a couple\u2014a few\u2014years to [think], \u201cOh, no; this really is something He\u2019s doing\u201d and, you know, for a while, I was [thinking], \u201cI don\u2019t really want that!\u201d [Laughter] \u201cI don\u2019t actually\u2014I want it to be happy and blissful and rainbows over here. I\u2019m fun! Why aren\u2019t you having fun?!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>And he was saying, \u201cYou are going to burn us down. You really are.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Isn\u2019t it true, though, and you don\u2019t see it coming.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wait! Did you think that? \u201cYou\u2019re going to burn us down?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cBurn us down!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: He thought that about me, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: And I was like, \u201cI\u2019m trying to have a good time! But you don\u2019t seem to be having a good time.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: My biggest thing in all this\u2014this was about three years into our marriage; maybe two or three; it was early\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u201cIt\u2019s going to burn us down!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: We went in to see a counselor, not because we were on the last leg (yet), but just because we needed to see a counselor. Anyway, after really kind of expressing to this counselor, who was a Christian counselor, some disappointment, anger, and frustration we had with each other, over the course of an hour, he said, \u201cYou know, I think the problem with both of you is\u201d\u2014he said\u2014\u201dboth of you think of yourself as first sinned against, and second, sinner.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He said, \u201cYou know, the tickertape in both of your brains is on the other person\u2019s flaws; and the flaws you\u2019re pointing out are mostly correct. You know, they do have those flaws.\u201d He said, \u201cBut the gospel is going to teach you to think of yourself, first of all, as sinner, and only secondly, as sinned against, which doesn\u2019t mean you don\u2019t have to deal with where they sinned against you, because that\u2019s a conversation you need to have; but it means you do so out of the context of, \u2018I will never have to forgive you of anything close to what God has forgiven me of\u2019.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: And he said, \u201cThat will change how you relate to each other when you think of yourselves as \u2018first sinner.\u2019\u201d Now, I\u2019m the man in Jesus\u2019 parable who was forgiven 10,000 talents, and now, I\u2019m being asked to forgive $1.50.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: And it changed, I think, both of us to say, \u201cI\u2019m going to expect that we have to show grace in this relationship, because that\u2019s the kind of God we serve. He shows grace to us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, that\u2019s so good.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So good!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Because we get married, and our eyes are on them, not us.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: At first, it\u2019s great, because they\u2019re so amazingly wonderful, and then, we see stuff. [Laughter] A year ago, Ann took me to Vegas, and we saw John Legend. He\u2019s got this song we all love, you know? [Singing] \u201cAll of me, loves all of you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, such a good one.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019m not going to sing the whole thing. Here\u2019s what happens: you get married, and you\u2019re married, maybe, three years or six months or whatever, and it becomes, \u201cHalf of me, loves none of you.\u201d [Laughter] \u201cAll your quirks and accusations make me want to take a vacation.\u201d I mean, it\u2019s like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It switches! It switches.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It totally switches.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But there\u2019s truth in that. What you said about seeing the sin in me\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014first.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014is where you start; that changes everything!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Did you\u2014were you guys able to start doing that after that counselor\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014some of these things are\u2014you say it one time, and everything\u2019s different.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Boom, done!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, I wish it were.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: But it\u2019s daily\u2014you know, Martin Lloyd-Jones, the old preacher used to talk about the importance of preaching the gospel to yourself every day.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: So, yes, we preach the gospel to ourselves each day. We\u2019re telling ourselves that. And we\u2019ve grown in it. There are still moments when I\u2019m angrier about her sin than I am mine, you know? But I will say that, now, I can say\u201423 years into marriage\u2014I never knew what it was like to love a sinner until I got married. [Laughter] I\u2019m not talking about Veronica.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: I\u2019m talking about God\u2019s love of me, because I\u2019m realizing how much grace there was that God showed. That\u2019s part of what we\u2019ve been talking about. It\u2019s ultimately the gospel that makes you a better spouse.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And we\u2019re talking about your book, Essential Christianity: The Heart of the Gospel in Ten Words.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Now, is this the word \u201crefusal?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: The word \u201crefusal.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Is that sort of what we\u2019re talking about?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Well\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014because I read it, and I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s about sin. The world is broken by sin; but maybe I missed it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: You can get there!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: You can get there from it, but specifically, it raises a question that\u2014to switch gears a little bit here; the question that\u2014a lot of people in deconstruction ask, which is, \u201cIf there really is a God, then why doesn\u2019t everybody believe Him? Why are there so many intelligent, very moral, Atheists in the world?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Or people from different religions. What the Apostle Paul explains is that, ultimately, what our head ends up believing, our heart is conditioned to believe. The problem, he explains, is in the human heart. It\u2019s not better information or better education; it\u2019s a transformation of the heart.<\/p>\n<p>So, what we need as fallen sinners is not better technique or better education. What we need is transformation, and that\u2019s only going to come through the gospel. The way you get there, when you\u2019re talking about marriage, is, I know that we can go to all the wonderful weekends\u2014Weekend to Remember\u00ae\u2014and these incredible (whether they\u2019re FamilyLife or other things), we need the power of the Holy Spirit renewing us in the gospel.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: That\u2019s what Paul says in Romans. I talk about that in this book: the pivotal point in Romans is in Romans 12:1, where he says, \u201cTherefore.\u201d The first eleven chapters of Romans are all about the gospel are all about the gospel.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: The last five chapters of Romans are all about how you should live\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014\u201ctherefore,\u201d yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014and how you should treat your spouse. The hinge between those two sections is the word \u201ctherefore.\u201d In light of what God has done for you, this is how you can begin to come toward one another.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: When you get to a place in your marriage\u2014and maybe you haven\u2019t felt this; I know I\u2019ve felt this\u2014\u201cI can\u2019t. I can\u2019t love her like I know I want to, and I should. I preach this, and I know this from the Word of God; but right now, it\u2019s almost like I\u2019m stuck. I need the power of God. I don\u2019t know if I want it right now, but I need it.\u201d Have you ever been there? And if you are, how do you navigate through that?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I think, one, you should always own that; always own that to God first and say, \u201cI don\u2019t really want this. I know I need it, but I don\u2019t really want it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: To be truthful.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes! \u201cCan you help me want that? Can you change me?\u201d I do that a lot in my life, not just in my marriage. \u201cHelp me want the right things.\u201d So, I think that\u2019s the first thing: to be really honest about your feelings. The second thing is, and this is more like an action\u2014that\u2019s an action, too, but this is more an action on a day-to-day basis: if you do one thing [in a] loving [way], that starts to change, slowly.<\/p>\n<p>This is a long-term thing you\u2019re going to be doing here. This is not going to be fixed in a day or a week when you\u2019re just at a really difficult place. You know, your feelings do follow your actions. This is assuming this is a base-level of conflict. I think it\u2019s important to always say there are some situations this would not be applicable to.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: That are outside the realm of an average sinner married to an average sinner. No one is at risk here.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: You\u2019re not talking about abusive situations.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: No, right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: If you think you could be, you should get help immediately in that situation.<\/p>\n<p>But, you know, I think your actions begin to dictate your feelings.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes; you know, the Law\u2014whenever you think about how you ought to act, that\u2019s what the Bible refers to as \u201cthe Law.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: It\u2019s the standard of righteousness. It has a protective purpose in us, so that, even when I don\u2019t feel like it, I will obey the Law\u2014God\u2019s Law\u2014because that\u2019s just must better for me and for the people I love if I am obeying God\u2019s laws. But the Law is not\u2014in that sense, I call it \u201cthe curb.\u201d It\u2019s to curb your behavior; but it\u2019s also a mirror to reveal what your heart is not.<\/p>\n<p>So, when I find my heart craving selfishness where it should crave generosity, when it\u2019s craving stinginess where it should be feeling feelings of love, I go ahead and do the loving thing. That\u2019s the Law; but my heart is crying out, saying, \u201cGod, I need You to change my heart so that this stuff becomes instinctive to me; where I just do it!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: I mean, Jesus never had to force Himself to obey. His heart always desired that. And what God wants\u2014I explain this in the sense of Christianity: God\u2019s not just after obedience. He\u2019s after a whole new kind of obedience; an obedience that grows out of desire; an obedience where you love your spouse because that\u2019s what you do! You love your spouse because your heart loves it!<\/p>\n<p>Martin Luther talked about the \u201cdilemma of the Great Commandment.\u201d The Great Commandments of \u201clove God with all our heart and love our neighbor as ourselves.\u201d He said the dilemma of that commandment is [that] God is commanding you to do something that, by definition, cannot be commanded. He said, \u201cThink about it. If you love something, you don\u2019t need a command to do it.\u201d You never have to command me to eat a steak, take a nap, watch football, or kiss my wife. I just desire those things.<\/p>\n<p>Luther said, \u201cThe other side of that is, if you don\u2019t love something, then no command can ever make you love it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: So, what you\u2019re doing is, as you\u2019re obeying, you\u2019re crying out to God, saying, \u201cGod, I\u2019m obeying, but I need You to transform me from within so that I become the kind of person who does righteousness because I crave righteousness, and I choose love because I feel love and I am love.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019ve shared here before, but times when I want to treat\u2014or be kind\u2014to Ann, and I\u2019m not being. I have to ask, literally, in that moment, \u201cGod, my heart has been transformed! I am in Christ. So, this isn\u2019t behavior that matches who I am in Christ, but it\u2019s matching who I was before.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>For the listener who says God won\u2019t be in that moment, He will meet you in that moment.\u201d Again, it could look different. I remember\u2014I\u2019ve shared here before\u2014sitting on a park bench in a public [place], and we were in some fight, years ago. I am wrong! [Laughter] She has already told me 18 times, but I am at the point, now, where I realize: \u201cI\u2019ve said things that were hurtful and harsh.\u201d She\u2019s sitting right here [motioning beside himself], and I know, \u201cAll she needs from me is tenderness.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So, I preach the gospel to myself: \u201cGod, you\u2019ve been tender to me. I need to be tender to her.\u201d Everything in me is like, \u201cI can\u2019t do it! I don\u2019t want to do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Been there!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I remember sitting there, watching all these people walk by. We\u2019re in public, so you can\u2019t really\u2014you\u2019re sort of hiding this thing! But all of these people are walking around, and they\u2019re smiling and laughing. Here\u2019s what I\u2019m thinking: \u201cYou bunch of losers!\u201d [Laughter] \u201cYou\u2019re not happy! You\u2019re just faking it,\u201d you know?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Lies!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cEverybody\u2019s feeling what I\u2019m feeling!\u201d But I\u2019ll never forget\u2014I don\u2019t know why it\u2019s so clear in my mind\u2014[thinking], \u201cGod, I can\u2019t muster this up in myself. I know I need to love her like she deserves to be loved. Would you give me that, right here, right now?\u201d And He did!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, He will.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: There are times where God will take a hard heart, and if you really repent and say, \u201cI\u2019m wrong. I need you,\u201d there\u2019s transformation.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It\u2019s already yours, but to experience it in that moment; again, it doesn\u2019t happen every single day\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014but it can.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It can.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And that\u2019s what you\u2019re saying; that\u2019s the gospel!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was going to say, there\u2019s something about the obedience of following what God has called us to do in the gospel. I just got over being sick for about six days, and when you don\u2019t feel well physically, everything\u2019s hard. It\u2019s like your eyes are on yourself and your pain.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: So true!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I thought of that as I was walking last night. I felt dry spiritually, and even when you\u2019re dry, it\u2019s that heart of, \u201cBut I know that I\u2019m going to get in the Word. I\u2019m going to do what God has called me to do and obey\u2014because I\u2019ve had years of doing that\u2014knowing that, even when my heart doesn\u2019t feel like it, because I\u2019ve had something physical going on, I\u2019m still going to spend time with Jesus and read the word, because it is the gospel that is our hope, as we spend time with Him.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: He renews our mind, He renews our heart, and He transforms our thoughts and our hearts instead of conforming to the world.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Absolutely!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, talk about one of your words; it\u2019s \u201cstruggle.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What I wrote down in my notes beside it is, \u201cThere is a new me that needs to be embraced, and an old me that needs to be left behind.\u201d There\u2019s this\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014I like that battle.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014we\u2019re talking about it right now: that struggle! Is that what the gospel looks like?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes. I mean, it\u2019s one of the most encouraging chapters in the book of Romans to me personally.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Essential Christianity is not a commentary on Romans, but it\u2019s just taking these questions that Paul is raising and re-asking them in modern-day terms. One of the things Paul basically says is, \u201cIf Christianity is true, why is it so hard? Why is it that, after I\u2019ve learned the right things and chosen the right things, it still comes as such a struggle?\u201d And what he\u2019s going to explain is that the way that God saves us is, He gives us a new heart, but that new heart is within what He calls the flesh, which is the old body.<\/p>\n<p>The bad news is that this flesh, this sinful flesh, is going to be with you until the day that you die. It\u2019s going to remain every bit as sinful as it ever was. The moment you stop dying to it, it will take you into\u2014it could be all the old sins, or it could be worse than the old sins!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It\u2019s kind of depressing!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It is!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: It is depressing.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It is.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Here\u2019s depressing\/encouraging!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right, at the same time!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: John Newton, who wrote the song, Amazing Grace, when he was 86 years old\u2014there\u2019s a little book of letters that you can read; it\u2019s called The Letters of John Newton, and it\u2019s got one that he wrote to another, younger pastor in his 30s (when he was in his 80s). He said to this other pastor\u2014he said, \u201cYou know, I find it depressing sometimes, because I thought that, by 86, I would no longer struggle with all these different sins.\u201d He said, \u201cSome of those desires in me are stronger and more sinful than ever.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Depressing.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: I\u2019m like, \u201cAt 80?!\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, come on.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Come on!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Really? Seriously? I thought at that point, I was going to just sit around and hum\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014praise songs!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Amazing Grace!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014all day; yes. But he said, \u201cWhat I\u2019ve realized is that God allows us to continue to struggle against the flesh because growth in grace is not getting past a point where you need grace. It\u2019s growth in your awareness of how badly you do need it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So, God will let certain temptations stay with you\u2014and certain struggles\u2014because He doesn\u2019t want you, this side of the resurrection, to ever get to a point where you say, \u201cI\u2019m good! I\u2019ve got it!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Paul\u2019s thorn in the flesh.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: He wants you to still be able to sing, \u201cAmazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me.\u201d I even feel like, in the context of marriage, that\u2019s part of what\u2014you know, there\u2019s nothing that reveals my sinfulness and selfishness\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014for sure!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014more than my marriage. God uses it as a crucible to say, \u201cHey, here\u2019s how badly you needed saving, and you continue to need saving.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And at the same time, isn\u2019t it true that\u2014I remember Tim Keller writing this in The Meaning of Marriage\u2014part of the purpose of our marriages is to become like Christ. He uses our spouse as a sharpening brother\/sister, really, who comes alongside and says, \u201cI see things. I love you, I affirm you; but I see something.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cNobody else sees it. The congregation doesn\u2019t see it. They think you\u2019re awesome! But I see it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So, it\u2019s a gift because it\u2019s making us, what Keller says, \u201cour glory-selves.\u201d When we\u2019re in glory, face-to-face, we\u2019re going to finally be like Him. Well, we\u2019re on a journey to then.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Is that what you\u2019ve seen even in your own marriage: this sharpening taking place?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Oh, absolutely! We\u2019re pretty opposite in just how we sort of approach life. Our values are the same, which is what has sustained us, right? [Giggling] But we\u2014our approach to life can be pretty different. So, I can make him crazy; he can make me crazy.<\/p>\n<p>Having to hash those things out in how we\u2019re going to parent, how we\u2019re going to run our household, how we\u2019re going to run our schedule, how we\u2019re going to do trips, how we\u2019re going to\u2014just everything!\u2014relate with people; in the hashing out, I\u2019m also a conflict-avoider, and he [says], \u201cWhy would you ever avoid it? Just get after it!\u201d So, we\u2019ve had to learn. That\u2019s kind of where that \u201cmedium way\u201d is better for us, and better for our kids.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Some of the strengths are complementary, and that\u2019s just how God makes us.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: For sure.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: And then, some of them are [things] where the other spouse reveals your sinfulness and selfishness in it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Because whatever\u2014you know, you\u2019ve heard this before: \u201cWhatever your virtue is, is your vice.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: For sure.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: She loves people immediately, and that\u2019s the most important thing in the world. I mean, that\u2019s a beautiful part of how God made her.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: The details can get lost.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: The vice is, you know, you\u2019re not getting from Point A to Point B. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>My virtue is\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014\u201cWe\u2019re going to get there!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014\u201cWe\u2019re going to get from Point A to Point B.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: That\u2019s right!<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: But it is, \u201cWho do we run over? Who do we not think about?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: So, there is both a complementary nature in how God made us, but there\u2019s also a revelation of un-Christlikeness that comes through the other.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s both.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes. So, that has been really good. I mean, he has made me better in all of those things, and I\u2019ve made him better in all those things.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: As we\u2019re talking about Romans, what\u2019s your favorite verse? What do you think, J.D.?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: I love\u2014I\u2019m deeply moved by\u2014Romans 1:14, where Paul says, \u201cI\u2019m a debtor to those who have never heard.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Since college! That\u2019s been since college.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Since college.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Really?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes, because you think about \u201cdebtor.\u201d It means you owe somebody; you\u2019re under obligation; you\u2019re no longer free. When you owe the credit card company tens of thousands of dollars, then you\u2019re not free to do what you want. Your money, in a sense, belongs to them. You know, Paul said, \u201cWhen it comes to the gospel; when I think about the gift that God gave me and how much I didn\u2019t deserve it, I owe it to those who have never heard to have a chance to hear.\u201d [Paraphrased]<\/p>\n<p>I tell college students (we have a lot of them who go to our church), \u201cYour generation\u2014Gen Z, and Millennials, also\u2014is moved by justice issues.\u201d And they should be!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: We need to be involved in justice issues all over the world, of all kinds. But according to Paul, the greatest injustice that has ever taken place is for somebody to know the gospel and to not share it with those who haven\u2019t. So, when Paul goes from verse 14 to saying, \u201cI\u2019m not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, because it is the power of God unto salvation for everybody who believes\u201d [Romans 1:16]\u2014<\/p>\n<p>When I think about what the gospel has done in our marriage, when I think about how it saved our marriage\u2014I think we can say that; I\u2019m not sure where we\u2019d be if it hadn\u2019t been for coming back to the gospel. We might be a statistic, divorced. When I think about the way I\u2019ve seen it work in people\u2019s lives, there\u2019s just nothing greater to give your life to than to knowing the gospel, teaching it to your kids, and making sure everybody in this generation knows and has a chance to believe.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Man, I just love that important truth from J.D. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with J.D. Greear and Veronica Greear on FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>J.D. has written a book called Essential Christianity: The Heart of the Gospel in Ten Words. This book really explores the transformative power of the gospel in addressing life\u2019s really profound questions and rediscovering the joy and depth of the Christian faith for modern individuals. You can go online to get a copy at FamilyLifeToday.com. Click on the \u201cToday\u2019s Resources\u201d link; or you can get the link in the show notes; or you can give us a call to get a copy at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, while you\u2019re on FamilyLifeToday.com, there\u2019s a little button at the top of the page that says, \u201cDonate Now.\u201d When you do that, you become a partner with us. There are different types of partners who give to the ministry of FamilyLife. There are one-time gift partners and then, there are monthly partners. The cool thing about being a monthly partner is, when you do, you become part of a group with some exclusive benefits. You get insider ministry updates about new products and pre-releases, and exclusive viewing opportunities. You get access to our new curated, topical library from some of the most compassionate minds across the ministry. And when you do sign up to become a monthly partner, you get a free Weekend to Remember gift card.<\/p>\n<p>So, I really encourage you to hop online, go to FamilyLifeToday.com, click on the \u201cDonate Now\u201d button at the top of the page, and become a monthly partner to help make this ministry what it is by continuing to reach marriages and families.<\/p>\n<p>Now, coming up tomorrow, J.D. and Veronica Greear are back to talk about building gospel-centered marriages in ministry. What does it look like to embrace vulnerability, intentionality, and community support? The Greears are going to be here with the Wilsons to talk about just that tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs? Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/280347","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=280347"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280866"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=280347"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=280347"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=280347"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=280347"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=280347"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=280347"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}