{"id":280346,"date":"2024-01-24T10:15:00","date_gmt":"2024-01-24T15:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/my-marriage-needs-help-jd-veronica-greear\/"},"modified":"2025-04-29T15:20:38","modified_gmt":"2025-04-29T19:20:38","slug":"my-marriage-needs-help-jd-veronica-greear","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/my-marriage-needs-help-jd-veronica-greear\/","title":{"rendered":"My Marriage Needs Help: JD &#038; Veronica Greear"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Feel like work is disconnecting you from your spouse? JD and Veronica Greear share 10 tips to feed healthy relationships and genuine community in your marriage. <\/p>\n<p>Along with co-creator Brian Goins, J.D. and Veronica Greear are two of FamilyLife&#8217;s guest contributors to the all-new Art of Marriage group study! To learn more or order your copy, visit <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/art-of-marriage\/home\/?utm_source=FLTandutm_medium=show+notesandutm_campaign=AOM+Launch\" fetchpriority=\"high\">artofmarriage.com<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Feel like work is disconnecting you from your spouse? JD and Veronica Greear share 10 tips to feed healthy relationships and genuine community in your marriage. Along with co-creator Brian Goins, J.D. and Veronica Greear are two of FamilyLife&#8217;s guest cont&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280866,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/58487002-8f57-4c73-82ee-b154011c7fb3\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:31:11","filesize":"28.59M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-01-24 10:15:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"podcast_series":[8725],"cwp_profile":[9391],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-280346","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","podcast_series-the-book-of-romans-in-the-21st-century-jd-veronica-greear","cwp_profile-jd-greear","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/280346\/my-marriage-needs-help-jd-veronica-greear","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/280346\/my-marriage-needs-help-jd-veronica-greear","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"gZ7Y6XhwmH\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/my-marriage-needs-help-jd-veronica-greear\/\">My Marriage Needs Help: JD &#038; Veronica Greear<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/my-marriage-needs-help-jd-veronica-greear\/embed\/#?secret=gZ7Y6XhwmH\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;My Marriage Needs Help: JD &#038; Veronica Greear&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"gZ7Y6XhwmH\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["MS-012996"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/58487002-8f57-4c73-82ee-b154011c7fb3\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:31:11"],"filesize":["28.59M"],"_thumbnail_id":["280866"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li>Connect with JD &amp; Veronica Greear and catch more of their thoughts at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/jdgreear.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">jdgreear.com<\/a>,\u00a0Also find them on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/pastorjdgreear\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Instagram<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Listen to their podcast \"<a href=\"https:\/\/pod.link\/1439220729\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ask Me Anything<\/a>\"<\/li>\n<li>Listen to Summit Life through his radio podcast, a daily, 25-minute program with Pastor J.D. Greear:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/jdgreear.com\/summit-life\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">jdgreear.com\/summit-life<\/a><\/li>\n<li>And grab their book,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/essential-christianity-the-transforming-power-of-the-gospel-in-ten-simple-words\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Essential Christianity<\/a>\u00a0in our shop.<\/li>\n<li>Intrigued by today\u2019s episode? Think deeper about\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/?s=marriage&amp;post_type=wpfc_sermon\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Marriage<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Want to hear more episodes by\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/JD-Greear\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">JD Greear<\/a>, listen here!<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Apple Podcast<\/a>\u00a0or\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-01-24.pdf"],"transcript_content":["<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>My Marriage Needs Help<\/p>\n<p>Guests:J.D. &amp;amp; Veronica Greear and Brian Goins<\/p>\n<p>From the series:The Book of Romans for the 21st Century (Day 3 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:January 24, 2024<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Just in the New Testament, whether you\u2019re a single, or whether you\u2019re married with kids, or whether you\u2019re a retired couple, the Christian life is to be done in community. In all the \u201cone another\u201d passages, it\u2019s not like an optional benefit that comes along with the Christian life. It is an essential part of what it means to be healthy.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave and Ann: \u2014Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So, we have a full studio today.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I like it when we have a full studio.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You do? You like that? Yes, we have\u2014how many of us? Five. We have the Greears back. J.D. and Veronica are back for day three; and we have Brian Goins in the house. He does so many things, including the Art of Marriage \u00ae.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: The new Art of Marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Reimagined?<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Reimagined. That\u2019s a better way\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014there it is.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: We said, \u201cYou\u2019re not going to replace a classic,\u201d you know?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: The Greears are in the new Art of Marriage, and we\u2019re in it.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Yes. It\u2019s been super fun. My job for the last two years has been to invade people\u2019s homes and ask them super-invasive questions about their marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And you\u2019re really good at that. You have a gift; it\u2019s a spiritual gift. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Brian: I don\u2019t know that they would say that, but it was great being able to have couples like you guys; like the Wilsons, the Greears. You guys were some of the first people that we got to interview in this, and that\u2019s when we developed this whole thing about these six words that describe the characteristics of how God loves us. If we love one another like God loves us, then not only is He revealed, but our marriages actually move toward oneness. We actually get what we wanted when we got married, and that is to experience oneness and to experience unity with God.<\/p>\n<p>Even in the last couple episodes, just hearing you guys talk about that transformation, when we recognize that we\u2019re sinners first, rather than being sinned against. That\u2019s powerful. In fact, we should have gotten that line in the Art of Marriage, which we didn\u2019t. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Too late?<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Yes, it\u2019s too late. It was really good.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: As you said, Brian, the last couple of days, we\u2019ve been talking, really, about J.D.\u2019s book, Essential Christianity, which is applying the gospel. You\u2019ve been listening. What do you want to talk about or ask about?<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Oh, man. All kinds of stuff.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I bet.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: One thing I really want you guys to break down, because we do talk about this in the Art of Marriage\u2014you have to tell the Wilsons the honeymoon story, [Laughter] this whole thing about realizing that, \u201cI\u2019m going to be living with somebody.\u201d You said it yesterday, Veronica. It\u2019s usually a change project that I\u2019m signing up for when it comes to marriage, and you wanted to change J.D. right away.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, right off the bat.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Do you know the honeymoon story?<\/p>\n<p>Ann and Dave: No.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Oh, it\u2019s great.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I\u2019m not telling it. You\u2019re telling it [J.D.].<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Do we want to know about their honeymoon?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: There are two infamous stories from our honeymoon, and I\u2019m going to tell the book one. It\u2019s basically that I took 14 books on our honeymoon.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: He also had to do his dissertation\u2014what, oral exam?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Three-hour oral exam three days after we got back.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: One of us thought this was bad timing. [Laughter] One of us thought it was\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014she\u2019s pointing at herself right now.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014why wait? Why warm up for a game that you\u2019re never going to play? Someone said that. I don\u2019t remember which of us.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes. Well, I feel like that was true at the time.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: He took 14 and read 9. We were gone for six days.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, are you serious?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, are you serious?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I had a lot of guacamole in the hot tub by myself. It was fine.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You\u2019re sitting on the beach, probably, or something, reading a book?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes, and she\u2019d go to sleep, and I\u2019d pull out the book and read it. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Do you tell this story? Is this a story in Art of Marriage?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes, it\u2019s in the Art of Marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I was a bit flabbergasted; a bit.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: [Laughter] I guess.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: This is not what I had known I was signing up for. I should have known I was signing up for it, but I didn\u2019t, so I was a little\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014it also points to change, because now you talk about how you like \u201coverseas J.D.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I do. My favorite. It\u2019s my favorite J.D.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Who\u2019s \u201coverseas J.D.\u201d?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I get it once a year maybe.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It\u2019s a totally different vibe.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: There you go.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u201cI don\u2019t know what we\u2019re doing today. Where do you want to go?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u201cWhat do you guys want to do today? I\u2019m good! Whatever you want to do.\u201d That\u2019s how he wakes up every day overseas.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And you get that once a year. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Once a year.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: That\u2019s so funny. You guys were talking about how you realized, J.D., you love things scheduled out, and you even thought vacations\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: In 15-minute increments, preferably. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes, of course.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Play that out, because you\u2019re recognizing, \u201cNow I\u2019m married to this person.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, forever and ever, amen.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Forever and ever, and now I\u2019m going to cling to this person. So, how do I now then adjust or demand change, because you either go one or the other way. You kind of give in\u2014I think that\u2019s where most couples are, like \u201cI\u2019m seeing this and now do I just give in? Or do I try to change them?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: How do we go from there?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It was a two- to three-year journey of both of us stuck. You were pretty mad that I was this way\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Right. I\u2019m going to do it this way, and you\u2019re going to\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014and I was pretty mad that you were that way.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, you both saw the other person as wrong?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, for sure.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes, right. And then so after that, probably the heathier version of it is, there was some mutual influence, because there is a value of schedule. We understand that. You have one today, right? But there\u2019s also a freedom that allows you to enjoy the moment, allows you to respond to things, and that creates space for relationships.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Jesus said He came not to be served but to serve, and that should affect the follower of Jesus, even when they\u2019re going on vacation with their spouse, that there\u2019s a \u201cI\u2019m really here to serve her, and how can I do that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Brian: I like Romans 12:10, that we should outdo\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014outdo one another\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Brian: \u2014in showing honor. I just think, \u201cMan, how many more of our marriages would bring life if it were, instead of, \u2018In order for me to be happy in this marriage, you actually need to show honor to me,\u2019 versus just waking up in the day and thinking, \u2018How do I outdo my wife today in showing honor,\u2019\u201d which isn\u2019t easy, right?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes. And it\u2019s easier to do it some days than others.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: And when you are in a really sort of a spot where you\u2019re really mad or really angry, I think that\u2019s when you go back\u2014this is true, not just in marriage; this is true in other relationships as well. Quite often, I\u2019ll have to remember that it\u2019s going to make me really sad to stand before God one day and recognize how unforgiving I was towards that person, whether it\u2019s my husband or another relationship.<\/p>\n<p>So, if you just think about standing there before God and standing there proud of how you\u2019re feeling towards that person, I just know I\u2019m never going to be proud of any of that. So then, I pray, \u201cLord, help me here. I don\u2019t really want to be forgiving, but I know that it\u2019s an embarrassment to what I know and understand that You\u2019ve done for me that I feel that way. Can You help me?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: One of the challenges that I\u2019ve given our church\u2014I do periodically\u2014is, I will say, \u201cFor an entire week, here, if you have a spouse, I want you just to ask them the question at least once a day, and in every dimension of your relationship, \u2018How can I serve you?\u2019 Just \u2018how can I serve you?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>By the way, some of those dimensions are more fun than others, if both spouses are actually\u2014But just if you get in this mindset of \u201cHow could I serve her tonight when I come home?\u201d as opposed to coming home, being like, \u201cI\u2019ve been working all day. It\u2019s time for you to serve me.\u201d But just \u201chow can I serve you?\u201d It\u2019s a discipline. Do it for a week and just watch the differences it makes in your relationship.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: It occurs to me as I\u2019m sitting here\u2014I\u2019m sitting at a table with two pastor couples that have been over significant churches. You guys up in Michigan; you guys now at Summit. I would be remiss if I didn\u2019t ask you guys both a question: what are some of the most difficult things of being married in positions of high visibility?<\/p>\n<p>Because even though most people can\u2019t relate to that, we can\u2019t relate to that, but there have been plenty of people who would say that it\u2019s like, \u201cYes, but maybe I\u2019m married to someone who has a high, significant business; significant influence to others.\u201d What have been the challenges for you guys that you have been dealing with in being a highly visible couple?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: The first thing that comes to mind\u2014I\u2019d be curious what you\u2019d say\u2014is how there are two temptations, or one is just something that you suffer through, and that is there\u2019s nothing that\u2019s really private that everybody doesn\u2019t have opinions on. It\u2019s kind of clich\u00e9, but our kids are always dealing with what it means to be in the shadow, and the expectations there. You really say, \u201cI am trying to present to you that I\u2019m a normal person, but you keep treating me like I\u2019m not a normal person.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Trying to say that we\u2019re the same, and \u201cI\u2019m the shepherd, yes, but I\u2019m still a sheep.\u201d But there are people that just whether it\u2019s the words you say\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014the nature of being up on the stage or something\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: How you interact\u2014just everything is amplified, and we\u2019ve had to really create relationships that are like, \u201cI can\u2019t be pastor first to you. I just have to be friend,\u201d because the pastor\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014and you have to articulate that in those circles, in those couple of relationships, like, \u201cI need you to understand that in this situation that\u2019s not the first hat I\u2019m wearing here.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Right. Yes, that would be the one that we feel like we suffer through. I say \u201csuffer\u201d in air quotes, because I know that on the scale of suffering, that\u2019s not a bad one. But the other one is one that I see a lot of pastors, and I feel myself even pulled to make this mistake, is that you get so focused in your ambition, because, you know, if you\u2019re going to pastor or plant a large church, there\u2019s a little bit of drive there.<\/p>\n<p>You get so focused on building the congregation and the high, the adrenaline rush that comes from success, whether it\u2019s the success of a great sermon or an attendance high or something like that, that you think that happiness is found by the size of the stage or the scope of the influence. One of the things that Veronica has been a gift to me through our marriage is she loves and thrives on the small.<\/p>\n<p>She has often said to me, \u201cFame is making yourself accessible to a bunch of people you don\u2019t really care about, at the expense of those that you do.\u201d The quality of our life is not going to be determined by the size of the stage you\u2019re on. It\u2019s going to be determined by the depth and the quality of the relationships that we have, so why would we ever sacrifice those in order to get to this bigger stage? God didn\u2019t create anybody, even extroverts like me and Dave and you, that enjoy standing up in front of lots of people \u2014<\/p>\n<p>God created us for the community, the small. Many pastors will ignore that community for the sake of the large, and they\u2019ll justify it like, \u201cOh, I have to focus on this,\u201d and it ends up leading to their destruction. It\u2019s like David Powell, the Christian counselor, used to say: \u201cThings that grow in a secret garden always grow mutant.\u201d And when pastors begin to live secret lives, just because nobody really knows them anymore, that\u2019s when things grow mutant in their marriages and in their hearts.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: I think that\u2019s true whether you\u2019re a pastor of a large church, or whether you\u2019re just a couple working every day, doing what you\u2019re doing, being mom\u2014if we don\u2019t allow somebody to know what\u2019s really happening inside, we\u2019ll always move towards distortion.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Isolation always moves us toward distortion. I actually think Crawford Loritts said that on Art of Marriage. What about you guys, Wilsons? What have you learned about high visibility and making sure that you can still move towards each other and feel like you have that oneness?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I don\u2019t know what you thought first [Ann]. My first thought is captured in a story that I won\u2019t go into because we\u2019ve shared here many times, but it\u2019s when Ann said to me, late at night on Sunday night, when I\u2019m exhausted after five sermons or whatever, but she literally just made a comment as we\u2019re crawling into bed, \u201cI wish the man that led our church lived here.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I just said, \u201cMan, I watch you on stage. You pray, you lead, you cast vision. Everybody in the room wants to follow where Jesus is taking us. And then you come home and you\u2019re like, 'Yeah, you just pray,\u2019 because you\u2019re tired. So, it feels like we get the leftovers.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Exhausted!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think people in ministry (or not in ministry) can feel like that, of just getting the leftovers, and you can become really resentful of that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So, again, I\u2019m not saying everybody has experienced that. I experienced that. I felt like I\u2019d be driving home, and I was exhausted, and I knew inside, \u201cI have to bring my best,\u201d and I\u2019d be like, \u201cAhhhh, come on.\u201d [Laughter] And she\u2019s a great leader, so she most of the time would go, \u201cI\u2019ve got it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I heard a guy say not too long ago, \u201cYou want to be loved by the people that know you the best, not those that don\u2019t know you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s easy for the congregation to love you, and your own family or close friends are like, \u201cEhhh.\u201d We want the opposite, but in the public arena, it\u2019s great. J.D. said it. You\u2019re looking at numbers, like \u201cWe just hit 10,000. Wow!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I have a buddy who\u2019s in ministry now. He\u2019s younger, and almost every time he talks to me, he throws a number at me, like \u201cHey, man. We had this many this week,\u201d and I say, \u201cDude, it\u2019s not about that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cOh, yeah it is. You did it.\u201d I say, \u201cI know, and I\u2019m telling you, those are great, and they\u2019re adrenaline rushes. It\u2019s deeper than that. This is what matters.\u201d So, I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s an answer, but it is for me.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: I think just even hearing that, and we talk about this a little bit with the Art of Marriage, just the idea of not giving your spouse the leftovers. How have you guys looked to do that, whether you\u2019re the minister of a great church, whether you have a great business, or whether you\u2019re just working every day and you\u2019re spending 10, 12 hours a day working?<\/p>\n<p>Couples here want to move towards oneness, but yet, you feel tired. So, in our culture, where busyness is the currency, how have you guys worked, or maybe mistakes that you\u2019ve made, to not give your spouse the leftovers? What rhythms have you created?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Everybody kind of makes fun of the cliche of date night, but \u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014they shouldn\u2019t. They shouldn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014but there is a purpose in setting aside, like a calendar, and say, \u201cWe\u2019re going to put attention toward this.\u201d There are two things that come to my mind: this is about to get really serious really quick. My mother passed away last year, and I had the privilege of being with my dad, sitting beside her as she went into eternity, and watching the tenderness and the genuine affection between the two of them.<\/p>\n<p>The realization I had there is that\u2019s not something that you just manufacture on the last day. That\u2019s a lifetime of patience and tenderness, and, \u201cYou\u2019re the person that I want to be with me in pain, you\u2019re the one that understands, you\u2019re the one who believes in me most. This is who I want to be with in that last hour.\u201d I thought, \u201cAm I living right now in a way that makes that moment natural, if God gives us that, where it\u2019s like I\u2019m not here because I have to be.\u201d That was one; the other one is the realization that I have good buddy friends, and we go out and we hang out and we talk, but there\u2019s one person, I realized, that I will process most things with for the rest of my life. Friends, as close as they are, seasons of life change, but most likely there\u2019ll be one person that I\u2019m processing this with, and that\u2019s a relationship that I have to foster and build.<\/p>\n<p>So, we\u2019re intentional about reading a lot of the same books together. Why? We need to be able to discuss this. If appropriate, I will blind copy her on a lot of emails, just because I want her to know what\u2019s happening in these relationships, because when I get home, she says, \u201cWow, that was a tough situation you were in. Here\u2019s where you handled it well; here\u2019s where you didn\u2019t.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m constantly trying to populate our conversations with things we have in common. What you hear is that people, after their kids leave, end up getting divorced because they have nothing in common.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: So, I think, \u201cWhat do we have, outside of our kids, that I am fostering, so that we have this lifelong best friendship that ultimately ends, if God sees fit, with one of us sitting by the bedside of the other one, and just saying, \u2018I\u2019ve been your best friend for 50 years, and I\u2019ll be your best friend in this last hour\u2019?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oof, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: That will preach.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes. I\u2019d say we\u2019ve done a lot of those same things. I think Dave and I are best friends, for sure.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We\u2019re always interacting, and when our kids were little, we would just, even if it was ten minutes, \u201cGive me everything.\u201d I\u2019m interested in what he\u2019s doing, what he\u2019s thinking; and it\u2019s vice versa, so that was big. I think a couple things also helped. One, we prayed. We still pray together. Whew, you talk about intimacy. We\u2019re locking arms, we\u2019re partners. We\u2019re doing this journey following Jesus together.<\/p>\n<p>And then, here\u2019s just a little tidbit that I think is helpful: have a good vacation on your calendar, something to look forward to with each other.<\/p>\n<p>J.D. and Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Not\u2014you\u2019re going to have your kids\u2019 trip, but this is just the two of you, where, \u201cOh, I can\u2019t wait, because it\u2019s us.\u201d You have your kids, but there\u2019s something\u2014we want to be together because we enjoy each other\u2019s company.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. Sometimes, it\u2019s not very long. Could be three days.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Could be a couple days, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Those are all great. Those are all really good suggestions. The prayer one for me \u2014I know that 23 out of our 27 years, Jen would say the number one thing on her prayer list would have been that her husband would pray with her. I hate that it took me so many years to get over my own insecurity before that became more of a rhythm in our life. Still probably don\u2019t do it perfectly. I don\u2019t think any of these things do.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: You\u2019re attempting.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: You\u2019re always taking a few steps forward and some back, but I think for many of us, our problem isn\u2019t that we\u2019re stupid or we don\u2019t know what to do. We\u2019re just stubborn.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: We let everything else get in the way. As you guys, both of you being on Art of Marriage, why is it so crucial\u2014whether it\u2019s Art of Marriage or any kind of a resource\u2014why do you believe so wholeheartedly in community being something to help your marriages grow?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: The Christian life, just in the New Testament, whether you\u2019re a single or married with kids, or whether you\u2019re a retired couple, the Christian life is to be done in community. In all of the \u201cone another\u201d passages, it\u2019s not like an optional benefit that comes along with the Christian life, it is an essential part of what it means to be healthy.<\/p>\n<p>In our very atomized world, where technology and even the way we build our houses and the way we live our lives, it\u2019s designed with this polar kind of life. If you have anything, it\u2019s just the nuclear family, and really not even that. Within the nuclear family, everybody is going their opposite ways. It takes a counter-cultural decision that \u201cWe are going to foster and build community.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s one of the reasons that, even for all the things the evangelical church does wrong, there are a lot of beautiful things about it. The emphasis on small groups and fellowship; multi-generational stuff. Those things take investment and time. One of the things our kids kind of understand; maybe they do, maybe they don\u2019t\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014ish\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014is kind of this commitment we have. We are going to everything the church does, not because I\u2019m the pastor, but we\u2019re going because this is our community, and I want you to be family here and a visitor in all these other places, as opposed to being family on your soccer team, or family even at your school, and a visitor at church.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good!4<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: And you show up and you put time into it so that it is. Yes, that\u2019s why we\u2019re doing this. That\u2019s why we\u2019re going to this. We\u2019d do it if he worked at a law firm or something.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But you\u2019re saying it doesn\u2019t just happen. You put time, and energy, and priority into that.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We all know this, but that has to be on the calendar. You have to be intentional.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We have two of our best friends; they lived a block from us in Michigan. They keep talking, now that their kids are grown, \u201cYou know, we\u2019re going to move south. I can do my job anywhere. I think we\u2019re going to go to Atlanta or something.\u201d That\u2019s where two of his daughters are.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cNo, you\u2019re not. You\u2019re not leaving Michigan.\u201d We\u2019ve told them this before. We love them, but it was hard to lose such great friends, because we\u2019ve done life together. All I\u2019m saying is, every couple\u2014if you're listening, and you don\u2019t have that couple\u2014you have to find them.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: You have to find them.Dave: They\u2019re there. God has them around. You probably know their names. Take it to the next level and say, \u201cLet\u2019s make this something that sharpens both of us,\u201d because you\u2019re not going to make it to 43 years of marriage without people in your life.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: You have to invite them in, too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was going to say, too: we just started by having dinner together as a family once a week.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: That\u2019s exactly, actually, how our same situation kind of started that way. It was actually started at once a month, and then went from there. I also think, and you have to make it clear, like \u201cI\u2019m inviting you to speak into this,\u201d and you might have to remind them sometimes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: And yourself.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: And yourself.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: You have a narrative you believe about yourself that\u2019s very light and bright\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014rosy\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014and positive, rosy; and you can dismiss what God has actually given your spouse to do in your life, because \u201cWell, they don\u2019t know what they\u2019re talking about. Whatever. They\u2019re always like that, or he\u2019s always that, or his expectation, or this, or that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But other people, you\u2019re sometimes, hopefully often, a little more likely to hear. Maybe not initially, but I think your mind is a little quicker to hear it from those people you\u2019ve invited in and told them, as opposed to your spouse sometimes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right. I mean, some of the best moments of my life were when these guys spoke hard things.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You\u2019ve heard the adage, \u201cIf someone says you\u2019re a\u201d\u2014I'll say \u201cdonkey\u201d\u2014 \u201cdisregard it. If your wife says you\u2019re a donkey, consider it. If three or four guys say you\u2019re a donkey, get a saddle.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: That\u2019s funny.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s true. When they\u2019re speaking that, it\u2019s like \u201cGuess what?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I can deny it all I want. These are my brothers. They love me. She\u2019s already told me. This is going to make me better if I accept it and say, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s go.\u201d That\u2019s the gospel. God still loves me, but we have to change.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, go get the saddle.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Well, if the essence of Christianity is truly the grace of the gospel, it should not surprise us that we\u2019re going to irritate each other, we\u2019re going to cause each other pain, and we\u2019re going to see our sin. And if everything has been smooth sailing with every relationship you\u2019ve had, you probably aren\u2019t being real with them.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: So, if you\u2019re not uncomfortable in community, then you\u2019re probably not experiencing community.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And I\u2019ll add this, Brian. I would really encourage you, if you don\u2019t have that couple in your lives right now, pray. Start asking God, and start looking and asking God, \u201cWho is my couple?\u201d Because they\u2019re there.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Here\u2019s an idea: get the Art of Marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: There you go. There\u2019s the placement.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Invite a few couples over. I\u2019m not kidding.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This could be like a promotion \u2014<\/p>\n<p>Brian: \u2014because it gives you something. You have that third thing. It gives you something. You don\u2019t have to think about the discussion, because that\u2019s part of the problem: \u201cI don\u2019t even know what to talk about. I don\u2019t know what questions to ask. I don\u2019t even know\u2014\u201d So, give yourself\u2014take all of that pressure off.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, these could end up being life-long friends.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with J.D. and Veronica Greear along with Brian Goins on FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>As Dave and Brian were talking about, head over to ArtofMarriage.com or find the link in the show notes to pick up a leader kit. It\u2019s all reimagined, and we\u2019re excited to see how God is going to use the brand-new Art of Marriage.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve been really excited to have J.D. and Veronica Greear with us for the last three days. J.D. has written a book called Essential Christianity: The Heart of the Gospel in Ten Words. It\u2019s basically, \u201cWhat is Christianity?\u201d and it kind of gives an introduction to the Christian beliefs and Christian meaning, to help bridge the gap between biblical context and the challenges faced by modern individuals today.<\/p>\n<p>You can go online to pick up a copy at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329 to pick up a copy; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Now, when you\u2019re on FamilyLifeToday.com, we\u2019d love it if you\u2019d go to the top of the page and click on that \u201cDonate Now\u201d button. When that happens, you can give a gift to help the ministry of FamilyLife.<\/p>\n<p>You can either give a one-time gift, or you can become a monthly partner with us. The benefit of being a partner is not only that you get to give to this ministry and see God work through the ministry of FamilyLife, but you also get insider ministry updates about new products, pre-releases, and exclusive viewing opportunities. You get invitation-only events with unique opportunities to hear insider information about what God is doing through your partnership, and special communications from FamilyLife leadership, plus a lot more, including you get a free Weekend to Remember\u00ae gift card whenever you become a monthly partner with this ministry.<\/p>\n<p>So again, head over to FamilyLifeToday.com, and click on the \u201cDonate Now\u201d button at the top of the page to become a monthly partner.<\/p>\n<p>Coming up tomorrow, the President of FamilyLife, David Robbins, is going to be joining Dave and Ann along with Meg Robbins to talk about the profound purpose of marriage on mission. That\u2019s tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs? Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n"],"_edit_lock":["1745954440:47000"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_3b08c419d4df54fc3743b9accea1737458d40f00":["\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Name\" type=\"name\"  required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Email\" type=\"email\" required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Website\" type=\"url\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Message\" type=\"textarea\" \/]"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_atts_3b08c419d4df54fc3743b9accea1737458d40f00":["a:17:{s:2:\"to\";s:29:\"margaret.coyle@familylife.com\";s:7:\"subject\";s:74:\"[FamilyLife - A Cru Ministry] My Marriage Needs Help: JD & Veronica Greear\";s:12:\"show_subject\";s:2:\"no\";s:6:\"widget\";i:0;s:14:\"block_template\";N;s:19:\"block_template_part\";N;s:2:\"id\";i:280346;s:18:\"submit_button_text\";s:6:\"Submit\";s:14:\"customThankyou\";s:0:\"\";s:21:\"customThankyouHeading\";s:26:\"Your message has been sent\";s:21:\"customThankyouMessage\";s:30:\"Thank you for your 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like work is disconnecting you from your spouse? JD and Veronica Greear share 10 tips to feed healthy relationships and genuine community in your marriage. Along with co-creator Brian Goins, J.D. and Veronica Greear are two of FamilyLife's guest cont...","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Connect with JD &amp; Veronica Greear and catch more of their thoughts at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/jdgreear.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">jdgreear.com<\/a>,\u00a0Also find them on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/pastorjdgreear\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Instagram<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Listen to their podcast \"<a href=\"https:\/\/pod.link\/1439220729\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ask Me Anything<\/a>\"<\/li>\n<li>Listen to Summit Life through his radio podcast, a daily, 25-minute program with Pastor J.D. Greear:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/jdgreear.com\/summit-life\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">jdgreear.com\/summit-life<\/a><\/li>\n<li>And grab their book,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/essential-christianity-the-transforming-power-of-the-gospel-in-ten-simple-words\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Essential Christianity<\/a>\u00a0in our shop.<\/li>\n<li>Intrigued by today\u2019s episode? Think deeper about\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/?s=marriage&amp;post_type=wpfc_sermon\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Marriage<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Want to hear more episodes by\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/JD-Greear\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">JD Greear<\/a>, listen here!<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Apple Podcast<\/a>\u00a0or\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-01-24.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>My Marriage Needs Help<\/p>\n<p>Guests:J.D. &amp;amp; Veronica Greear and Brian Goins<\/p>\n<p>From the series:The Book of Romans for the 21st Century (Day 3 of 3)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:January 24, 2024<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Just in the New Testament, whether you\u2019re a single, or whether you\u2019re married with kids, or whether you\u2019re a retired couple, the Christian life is to be done in community. In all the \u201cone another\u201d passages, it\u2019s not like an optional benefit that comes along with the Christian life. It is an essential part of what it means to be healthy.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave and Ann: \u2014Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So, we have a full studio today.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I like it when we have a full studio.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You do? You like that? Yes, we have\u2014how many of us? Five. We have the Greears back. J.D. and Veronica are back for day three; and we have Brian Goins in the house. He does so many things, including the Art of Marriage \u00ae.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: The new Art of Marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Reimagined?<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Reimagined. That\u2019s a better way\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014there it is.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: We said, \u201cYou\u2019re not going to replace a classic,\u201d you know?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: The Greears are in the new Art of Marriage, and we\u2019re in it.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Yes. It\u2019s been super fun. My job for the last two years has been to invade people\u2019s homes and ask them super-invasive questions about their marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And you\u2019re really good at that. You have a gift; it\u2019s a spiritual gift. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Brian: I don\u2019t know that they would say that, but it was great being able to have couples like you guys; like the Wilsons, the Greears. You guys were some of the first people that we got to interview in this, and that\u2019s when we developed this whole thing about these six words that describe the characteristics of how God loves us. If we love one another like God loves us, then not only is He revealed, but our marriages actually move toward oneness. We actually get what we wanted when we got married, and that is to experience oneness and to experience unity with God.<\/p>\n<p>Even in the last couple episodes, just hearing you guys talk about that transformation, when we recognize that we\u2019re sinners first, rather than being sinned against. That\u2019s powerful. In fact, we should have gotten that line in the Art of Marriage, which we didn\u2019t. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Too late?<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Yes, it\u2019s too late. It was really good.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: As you said, Brian, the last couple of days, we\u2019ve been talking, really, about J.D.\u2019s book, Essential Christianity, which is applying the gospel. You\u2019ve been listening. What do you want to talk about or ask about?<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Oh, man. All kinds of stuff.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I bet.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: One thing I really want you guys to break down, because we do talk about this in the Art of Marriage\u2014you have to tell the Wilsons the honeymoon story, [Laughter] this whole thing about realizing that, \u201cI\u2019m going to be living with somebody.\u201d You said it yesterday, Veronica. It\u2019s usually a change project that I\u2019m signing up for when it comes to marriage, and you wanted to change J.D. right away.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, right off the bat.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Do you know the honeymoon story?<\/p>\n<p>Ann and Dave: No.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Oh, it\u2019s great.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I\u2019m not telling it. You\u2019re telling it [J.D.].<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Do we want to know about their honeymoon?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: There are two infamous stories from our honeymoon, and I\u2019m going to tell the book one. It\u2019s basically that I took 14 books on our honeymoon.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: He also had to do his dissertation\u2014what, oral exam?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Three-hour oral exam three days after we got back.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: One of us thought this was bad timing. [Laughter] One of us thought it was\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014she\u2019s pointing at herself right now.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014why wait? Why warm up for a game that you\u2019re never going to play? Someone said that. I don\u2019t remember which of us.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes. Well, I feel like that was true at the time.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: He took 14 and read 9. We were gone for six days.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, are you serious?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, are you serious?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I had a lot of guacamole in the hot tub by myself. It was fine.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You\u2019re sitting on the beach, probably, or something, reading a book?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes, and she\u2019d go to sleep, and I\u2019d pull out the book and read it. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Do you tell this story? Is this a story in Art of Marriage?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes, it\u2019s in the Art of Marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I was a bit flabbergasted; a bit.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: [Laughter] I guess.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: This is not what I had known I was signing up for. I should have known I was signing up for it, but I didn\u2019t, so I was a little\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014it also points to change, because now you talk about how you like \u201coverseas J.D.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I do. My favorite. It\u2019s my favorite J.D.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Who\u2019s \u201coverseas J.D.\u201d?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: I get it once a year maybe.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It\u2019s a totally different vibe.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: There you go.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u201cI don\u2019t know what we\u2019re doing today. Where do you want to go?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u201cWhat do you guys want to do today? I\u2019m good! Whatever you want to do.\u201d That\u2019s how he wakes up every day overseas.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And you get that once a year. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Once a year.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: That\u2019s so funny. You guys were talking about how you realized, J.D., you love things scheduled out, and you even thought vacations\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: In 15-minute increments, preferably. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes, of course.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Play that out, because you\u2019re recognizing, \u201cNow I\u2019m married to this person.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, forever and ever, amen.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Forever and ever, and now I\u2019m going to cling to this person. So, how do I now then adjust or demand change, because you either go one or the other way. You kind of give in\u2014I think that\u2019s where most couples are, like \u201cI\u2019m seeing this and now do I just give in? Or do I try to change them?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: How do we go from there?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: It was a two- to three-year journey of both of us stuck. You were pretty mad that I was this way\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Right. I\u2019m going to do it this way, and you\u2019re going to\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014and I was pretty mad that you were that way.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, you both saw the other person as wrong?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes, for sure.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes, right. And then so after that, probably the heathier version of it is, there was some mutual influence, because there is a value of schedule. We understand that. You have one today, right? But there\u2019s also a freedom that allows you to enjoy the moment, allows you to respond to things, and that creates space for relationships.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Jesus said He came not to be served but to serve, and that should affect the follower of Jesus, even when they\u2019re going on vacation with their spouse, that there\u2019s a \u201cI\u2019m really here to serve her, and how can I do that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Brian: I like Romans 12:10, that we should outdo\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014outdo one another\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Brian: \u2014in showing honor. I just think, \u201cMan, how many more of our marriages would bring life if it were, instead of, \u2018In order for me to be happy in this marriage, you actually need to show honor to me,\u2019 versus just waking up in the day and thinking, \u2018How do I outdo my wife today in showing honor,\u2019\u201d which isn\u2019t easy, right?<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes. And it\u2019s easier to do it some days than others.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: And when you are in a really sort of a spot where you\u2019re really mad or really angry, I think that\u2019s when you go back\u2014this is true, not just in marriage; this is true in other relationships as well. Quite often, I\u2019ll have to remember that it\u2019s going to make me really sad to stand before God one day and recognize how unforgiving I was towards that person, whether it\u2019s my husband or another relationship.<\/p>\n<p>So, if you just think about standing there before God and standing there proud of how you\u2019re feeling towards that person, I just know I\u2019m never going to be proud of any of that. So then, I pray, \u201cLord, help me here. I don\u2019t really want to be forgiving, but I know that it\u2019s an embarrassment to what I know and understand that You\u2019ve done for me that I feel that way. Can You help me?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: One of the challenges that I\u2019ve given our church\u2014I do periodically\u2014is, I will say, \u201cFor an entire week, here, if you have a spouse, I want you just to ask them the question at least once a day, and in every dimension of your relationship, \u2018How can I serve you?\u2019 Just \u2018how can I serve you?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>By the way, some of those dimensions are more fun than others, if both spouses are actually\u2014But just if you get in this mindset of \u201cHow could I serve her tonight when I come home?\u201d as opposed to coming home, being like, \u201cI\u2019ve been working all day. It\u2019s time for you to serve me.\u201d But just \u201chow can I serve you?\u201d It\u2019s a discipline. Do it for a week and just watch the differences it makes in your relationship.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: It occurs to me as I\u2019m sitting here\u2014I\u2019m sitting at a table with two pastor couples that have been over significant churches. You guys up in Michigan; you guys now at Summit. I would be remiss if I didn\u2019t ask you guys both a question: what are some of the most difficult things of being married in positions of high visibility?<\/p>\n<p>Because even though most people can\u2019t relate to that, we can\u2019t relate to that, but there have been plenty of people who would say that it\u2019s like, \u201cYes, but maybe I\u2019m married to someone who has a high, significant business; significant influence to others.\u201d What have been the challenges for you guys that you have been dealing with in being a highly visible couple?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: The first thing that comes to mind\u2014I\u2019d be curious what you\u2019d say\u2014is how there are two temptations, or one is just something that you suffer through, and that is there\u2019s nothing that\u2019s really private that everybody doesn\u2019t have opinions on. It\u2019s kind of clich\u00e9, but our kids are always dealing with what it means to be in the shadow, and the expectations there. You really say, \u201cI am trying to present to you that I\u2019m a normal person, but you keep treating me like I\u2019m not a normal person.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Trying to say that we\u2019re the same, and \u201cI\u2019m the shepherd, yes, but I\u2019m still a sheep.\u201d But there are people that just whether it\u2019s the words you say\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014the nature of being up on the stage or something\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: How you interact\u2014just everything is amplified, and we\u2019ve had to really create relationships that are like, \u201cI can\u2019t be pastor first to you. I just have to be friend,\u201d because the pastor\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014and you have to articulate that in those circles, in those couple of relationships, like, \u201cI need you to understand that in this situation that\u2019s not the first hat I\u2019m wearing here.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Right. Yes, that would be the one that we feel like we suffer through. I say \u201csuffer\u201d in air quotes, because I know that on the scale of suffering, that\u2019s not a bad one. But the other one is one that I see a lot of pastors, and I feel myself even pulled to make this mistake, is that you get so focused in your ambition, because, you know, if you\u2019re going to pastor or plant a large church, there\u2019s a little bit of drive there.<\/p>\n<p>You get so focused on building the congregation and the high, the adrenaline rush that comes from success, whether it\u2019s the success of a great sermon or an attendance high or something like that, that you think that happiness is found by the size of the stage or the scope of the influence. One of the things that Veronica has been a gift to me through our marriage is she loves and thrives on the small.<\/p>\n<p>She has often said to me, \u201cFame is making yourself accessible to a bunch of people you don\u2019t really care about, at the expense of those that you do.\u201d The quality of our life is not going to be determined by the size of the stage you\u2019re on. It\u2019s going to be determined by the depth and the quality of the relationships that we have, so why would we ever sacrifice those in order to get to this bigger stage? God didn\u2019t create anybody, even extroverts like me and Dave and you, that enjoy standing up in front of lots of people \u2014<\/p>\n<p>God created us for the community, the small. Many pastors will ignore that community for the sake of the large, and they\u2019ll justify it like, \u201cOh, I have to focus on this,\u201d and it ends up leading to their destruction. It\u2019s like David Powell, the Christian counselor, used to say: \u201cThings that grow in a secret garden always grow mutant.\u201d And when pastors begin to live secret lives, just because nobody really knows them anymore, that\u2019s when things grow mutant in their marriages and in their hearts.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: I think that\u2019s true whether you\u2019re a pastor of a large church, or whether you\u2019re just a couple working every day, doing what you\u2019re doing, being mom\u2014if we don\u2019t allow somebody to know what\u2019s really happening inside, we\u2019ll always move towards distortion.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Isolation always moves us toward distortion. I actually think Crawford Loritts said that on Art of Marriage. What about you guys, Wilsons? What have you learned about high visibility and making sure that you can still move towards each other and feel like you have that oneness?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I don\u2019t know what you thought first [Ann]. My first thought is captured in a story that I won\u2019t go into because we\u2019ve shared here many times, but it\u2019s when Ann said to me, late at night on Sunday night, when I\u2019m exhausted after five sermons or whatever, but she literally just made a comment as we\u2019re crawling into bed, \u201cI wish the man that led our church lived here.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I just said, \u201cMan, I watch you on stage. You pray, you lead, you cast vision. Everybody in the room wants to follow where Jesus is taking us. And then you come home and you\u2019re like, 'Yeah, you just pray,\u2019 because you\u2019re tired. So, it feels like we get the leftovers.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Exhausted!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think people in ministry (or not in ministry) can feel like that, of just getting the leftovers, and you can become really resentful of that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So, again, I\u2019m not saying everybody has experienced that. I experienced that. I felt like I\u2019d be driving home, and I was exhausted, and I knew inside, \u201cI have to bring my best,\u201d and I\u2019d be like, \u201cAhhhh, come on.\u201d [Laughter] And she\u2019s a great leader, so she most of the time would go, \u201cI\u2019ve got it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I heard a guy say not too long ago, \u201cYou want to be loved by the people that know you the best, not those that don\u2019t know you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s easy for the congregation to love you, and your own family or close friends are like, \u201cEhhh.\u201d We want the opposite, but in the public arena, it\u2019s great. J.D. said it. You\u2019re looking at numbers, like \u201cWe just hit 10,000. Wow!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I have a buddy who\u2019s in ministry now. He\u2019s younger, and almost every time he talks to me, he throws a number at me, like \u201cHey, man. We had this many this week,\u201d and I say, \u201cDude, it\u2019s not about that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cOh, yeah it is. You did it.\u201d I say, \u201cI know, and I\u2019m telling you, those are great, and they\u2019re adrenaline rushes. It\u2019s deeper than that. This is what matters.\u201d So, I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s an answer, but it is for me.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: I think just even hearing that, and we talk about this a little bit with the Art of Marriage, just the idea of not giving your spouse the leftovers. How have you guys looked to do that, whether you\u2019re the minister of a great church, whether you have a great business, or whether you\u2019re just working every day and you\u2019re spending 10, 12 hours a day working?<\/p>\n<p>Couples here want to move towards oneness, but yet, you feel tired. So, in our culture, where busyness is the currency, how have you guys worked, or maybe mistakes that you\u2019ve made, to not give your spouse the leftovers? What rhythms have you created?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Everybody kind of makes fun of the cliche of date night, but \u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014they shouldn\u2019t. They shouldn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014but there is a purpose in setting aside, like a calendar, and say, \u201cWe\u2019re going to put attention toward this.\u201d There are two things that come to my mind: this is about to get really serious really quick. My mother passed away last year, and I had the privilege of being with my dad, sitting beside her as she went into eternity, and watching the tenderness and the genuine affection between the two of them.<\/p>\n<p>The realization I had there is that\u2019s not something that you just manufacture on the last day. That\u2019s a lifetime of patience and tenderness, and, \u201cYou\u2019re the person that I want to be with me in pain, you\u2019re the one that understands, you\u2019re the one who believes in me most. This is who I want to be with in that last hour.\u201d I thought, \u201cAm I living right now in a way that makes that moment natural, if God gives us that, where it\u2019s like I\u2019m not here because I have to be.\u201d That was one; the other one is the realization that I have good buddy friends, and we go out and we hang out and we talk, but there\u2019s one person, I realized, that I will process most things with for the rest of my life. Friends, as close as they are, seasons of life change, but most likely there\u2019ll be one person that I\u2019m processing this with, and that\u2019s a relationship that I have to foster and build.<\/p>\n<p>So, we\u2019re intentional about reading a lot of the same books together. Why? We need to be able to discuss this. If appropriate, I will blind copy her on a lot of emails, just because I want her to know what\u2019s happening in these relationships, because when I get home, she says, \u201cWow, that was a tough situation you were in. Here\u2019s where you handled it well; here\u2019s where you didn\u2019t.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m constantly trying to populate our conversations with things we have in common. What you hear is that people, after their kids leave, end up getting divorced because they have nothing in common.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: So, I think, \u201cWhat do we have, outside of our kids, that I am fostering, so that we have this lifelong best friendship that ultimately ends, if God sees fit, with one of us sitting by the bedside of the other one, and just saying, \u2018I\u2019ve been your best friend for 50 years, and I\u2019ll be your best friend in this last hour\u2019?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oof, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: That will preach.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes. I\u2019d say we\u2019ve done a lot of those same things. I think Dave and I are best friends, for sure.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We\u2019re always interacting, and when our kids were little, we would just, even if it was ten minutes, \u201cGive me everything.\u201d I\u2019m interested in what he\u2019s doing, what he\u2019s thinking; and it\u2019s vice versa, so that was big. I think a couple things also helped. One, we prayed. We still pray together. Whew, you talk about intimacy. We\u2019re locking arms, we\u2019re partners. We\u2019re doing this journey following Jesus together.<\/p>\n<p>And then, here\u2019s just a little tidbit that I think is helpful: have a good vacation on your calendar, something to look forward to with each other.<\/p>\n<p>J.D. and Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Not\u2014you\u2019re going to have your kids\u2019 trip, but this is just the two of you, where, \u201cOh, I can\u2019t wait, because it\u2019s us.\u201d You have your kids, but there\u2019s something\u2014we want to be together because we enjoy each other\u2019s company.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. Sometimes, it\u2019s not very long. Could be three days.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Could be a couple days, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Those are all great. Those are all really good suggestions. The prayer one for me \u2014I know that 23 out of our 27 years, Jen would say the number one thing on her prayer list would have been that her husband would pray with her. I hate that it took me so many years to get over my own insecurity before that became more of a rhythm in our life. Still probably don\u2019t do it perfectly. I don\u2019t think any of these things do.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: You\u2019re attempting.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: You\u2019re always taking a few steps forward and some back, but I think for many of us, our problem isn\u2019t that we\u2019re stupid or we don\u2019t know what to do. We\u2019re just stubborn.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: We let everything else get in the way. As you guys, both of you being on Art of Marriage, why is it so crucial\u2014whether it\u2019s Art of Marriage or any kind of a resource\u2014why do you believe so wholeheartedly in community being something to help your marriages grow?<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: The Christian life, just in the New Testament, whether you\u2019re a single or married with kids, or whether you\u2019re a retired couple, the Christian life is to be done in community. In all of the \u201cone another\u201d passages, it\u2019s not like an optional benefit that comes along with the Christian life, it is an essential part of what it means to be healthy.<\/p>\n<p>In our very atomized world, where technology and even the way we build our houses and the way we live our lives, it\u2019s designed with this polar kind of life. If you have anything, it\u2019s just the nuclear family, and really not even that. Within the nuclear family, everybody is going their opposite ways. It takes a counter-cultural decision that \u201cWe are going to foster and build community.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s one of the reasons that, even for all the things the evangelical church does wrong, there are a lot of beautiful things about it. The emphasis on small groups and fellowship; multi-generational stuff. Those things take investment and time. One of the things our kids kind of understand; maybe they do, maybe they don\u2019t\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014ish\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014is kind of this commitment we have. We are going to everything the church does, not because I\u2019m the pastor, but we\u2019re going because this is our community, and I want you to be family here and a visitor in all these other places, as opposed to being family on your soccer team, or family even at your school, and a visitor at church.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good!4<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: And you show up and you put time into it so that it is. Yes, that\u2019s why we\u2019re doing this. That\u2019s why we\u2019re going to this. We\u2019d do it if he worked at a law firm or something.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But you\u2019re saying it doesn\u2019t just happen. You put time, and energy, and priority into that.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We all know this, but that has to be on the calendar. You have to be intentional.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We have two of our best friends; they lived a block from us in Michigan. They keep talking, now that their kids are grown, \u201cYou know, we\u2019re going to move south. I can do my job anywhere. I think we\u2019re going to go to Atlanta or something.\u201d That\u2019s where two of his daughters are.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cNo, you\u2019re not. You\u2019re not leaving Michigan.\u201d We\u2019ve told them this before. We love them, but it was hard to lose such great friends, because we\u2019ve done life together. All I\u2019m saying is, every couple\u2014if you're listening, and you don\u2019t have that couple\u2014you have to find them.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: You have to find them.Dave: They\u2019re there. God has them around. You probably know their names. Take it to the next level and say, \u201cLet\u2019s make this something that sharpens both of us,\u201d because you\u2019re not going to make it to 43 years of marriage without people in your life.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: You have to invite them in, too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was going to say, too: we just started by having dinner together as a family once a week.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: That\u2019s exactly, actually, how our same situation kind of started that way. It was actually started at once a month, and then went from there. I also think, and you have to make it clear, like \u201cI\u2019m inviting you to speak into this,\u201d and you might have to remind them sometimes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: And yourself.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: And yourself.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: You have a narrative you believe about yourself that\u2019s very light and bright\u2014<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: \u2014rosy\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: \u2014and positive, rosy; and you can dismiss what God has actually given your spouse to do in your life, because \u201cWell, they don\u2019t know what they\u2019re talking about. Whatever. They\u2019re always like that, or he\u2019s always that, or his expectation, or this, or that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But other people, you\u2019re sometimes, hopefully often, a little more likely to hear. Maybe not initially, but I think your mind is a little quicker to hear it from those people you\u2019ve invited in and told them, as opposed to your spouse sometimes.<\/p>\n<p>J.D.: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right. I mean, some of the best moments of my life were when these guys spoke hard things.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You\u2019ve heard the adage, \u201cIf someone says you\u2019re a\u201d\u2014I'll say \u201cdonkey\u201d\u2014 \u201cdisregard it. If your wife says you\u2019re a donkey, consider it. If three or four guys say you\u2019re a donkey, get a saddle.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: That\u2019s funny.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s true. When they\u2019re speaking that, it\u2019s like \u201cGuess what?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Veronica: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I can deny it all I want. These are my brothers. They love me. She\u2019s already told me. This is going to make me better if I accept it and say, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s go.\u201d That\u2019s the gospel. God still loves me, but we have to change.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, go get the saddle.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Well, if the essence of Christianity is truly the grace of the gospel, it should not surprise us that we\u2019re going to irritate each other, we\u2019re going to cause each other pain, and we\u2019re going to see our sin. And if everything has been smooth sailing with every relationship you\u2019ve had, you probably aren\u2019t being real with them.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: So, if you\u2019re not uncomfortable in community, then you\u2019re probably not experiencing community.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And I\u2019ll add this, Brian. I would really encourage you, if you don\u2019t have that couple in your lives right now, pray. Start asking God, and start looking and asking God, \u201cWho is my couple?\u201d Because they\u2019re there.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Here\u2019s an idea: get the Art of Marriage.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: There you go. There\u2019s the placement.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Invite a few couples over. I\u2019m not kidding.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This could be like a promotion \u2014<\/p>\n<p>Brian: \u2014because it gives you something. You have that third thing. It gives you something. You don\u2019t have to think about the discussion, because that\u2019s part of the problem: \u201cI don\u2019t even know what to talk about. I don\u2019t know what questions to ask. I don\u2019t even know\u2014\u201d So, give yourself\u2014take all of that pressure off.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, these could end up being life-long friends.<\/p>\n<p>Brian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with J.D. and Veronica Greear along with Brian Goins on FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>As Dave and Brian were talking about, head over to ArtofMarriage.com or find the link in the show notes to pick up a leader kit. It\u2019s all reimagined, and we\u2019re excited to see how God is going to use the brand-new Art of Marriage.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve been really excited to have J.D. and Veronica Greear with us for the last three days. J.D. has written a book called Essential Christianity: The Heart of the Gospel in Ten Words. It\u2019s basically, \u201cWhat is Christianity?\u201d and it kind of gives an introduction to the Christian beliefs and Christian meaning, to help bridge the gap between biblical context and the challenges faced by modern individuals today.<\/p>\n<p>You can go online to pick up a copy at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329 to pick up a copy; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Now, when you\u2019re on FamilyLifeToday.com, we\u2019d love it if you\u2019d go to the top of the page and click on that \u201cDonate Now\u201d button. When that happens, you can give a gift to help the ministry of FamilyLife.<\/p>\n<p>You can either give a one-time gift, or you can become a monthly partner with us. The benefit of being a partner is not only that you get to give to this ministry and see God work through the ministry of FamilyLife, but you also get insider ministry updates about new products, pre-releases, and exclusive viewing opportunities. You get invitation-only events with unique opportunities to hear insider information about what God is doing through your partnership, and special communications from FamilyLife leadership, plus a lot more, including you get a free Weekend to Remember\u00ae gift card whenever you become a monthly partner with this ministry.<\/p>\n<p>So again, head over to FamilyLifeToday.com, and click on the \u201cDonate Now\u201d button at the top of the page to become a monthly partner.<\/p>\n<p>Coming up tomorrow, the President of FamilyLife, David Robbins, is going to be joining Dave and Ann along with Meg Robbins to talk about the profound purpose of marriage on mission. That\u2019s tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs? Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/280346","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=280346"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280866"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=280346"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=280346"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=280346"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=280346"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=280346"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=280346"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}