{"id":280296,"date":"2024-04-05T09:15:00","date_gmt":"2024-04-05T13:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/if-god-is-good-why-do-bad-things-happen-vaneetha-joel-risner\/"},"modified":"2025-04-16T16:31:23","modified_gmt":"2025-04-16T20:31:23","slug":"if-god-is-good-why-do-bad-things-happen-vaneetha-joel-risner","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/if-god-is-good-why-do-bad-things-happen-vaneetha-joel-risner\/","title":{"rendered":"If God is Good, Why Do Bad Things Happen? Vaneetha &#038; Joel Risner"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Does God care about your darkest feelings? If you&#8217;re wrestling with anger towards God\u2014whether it&#8217;s the loss of a loved one, feelings of betrayal, or a sense of abandonment\u2014Vaneetha and Joel Risner help navigate through pain toward lasting meaning.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Does God care about your darkest feelings? If you&#8217;re wrestling with anger towards God\u2014whether it&#8217;s the loss of a loved one, feelings of betrayal, or a sense of abandonment\u2014Vaneetha and Joel Risner help navigate through pain toward lasting meaning. Sho&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280866,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/8bd598c0-e5e9-432d-b115-b154011bed8e\/audio.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:32:12","filesize":"29.52M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-04-05 09:15:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[],"tags":[2146],"podcast_series":[10980],"cwp_profile":[9903],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-280296","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","tag-why-do-bad-things-happen-if-god-is-good","podcast_series-if-god-is-good-why-do-bad-things-happen-vaneetha-joel-risner-2","cwp_profile-joel-and-vaneetha-risner","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/280296\/if-god-is-good-why-do-bad-things-happen-vaneetha-joel-risner","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/280296\/if-god-is-good-why-do-bad-things-happen-vaneetha-joel-risner","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Tuqj7ToFyc\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/if-god-is-good-why-do-bad-things-happen-vaneetha-joel-risner\/\">If God is Good, Why Do Bad Things Happen? Vaneetha &#038; Joel Risner<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/if-god-is-good-why-do-bad-things-happen-vaneetha-joel-risner\/embed\/#?secret=Tuqj7ToFyc\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;If God is Good, Why Do Bad Things Happen? Vaneetha &#038; Joel Risner&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Tuqj7ToFyc\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Does God care about your darkest feelings? If you're wrestling with anger towards God\u2014whether it's the loss of a loved one, feelings of betrayal, or a sense of abandonment\u2014Vaneetha and Joel Risner help navigate through pain toward lasting meaning. Sho...","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Connect with Vaneetha Risner and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.vaneetha.com\/\">vaneetha.com<\/a>, and on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/vaneetharisner\/\">Instagram<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/vaneetharisner\">Facebook<\/a> @vaneetharisner.<\/li>\n<li>And grab Vaneetha's book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/www.vaneetha.com\/desperate-for-hope\">Desperate for Hope<\/a>\"on her website.<\/li>\n<li>Intrigued by today's episode? Think deeper about Losing a Loved One by listening to \"<a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/losing-the-one-i-loved-ron-deal-davey-kristi-blackburn\/\">Losing the One I Loved<\/a>.\"<\/li>\n<li>Want to hear more episodes by Vaneetha, listen <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/vaneetha-risner\/\">here<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/familylife-today-2\/?cru_source=24EGPCandcru_medium=podcastandcru_campaign=FLToday\">Donate to FamilyLife Today!<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<br \/>\nHelp others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<br \/>\nCheck out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-04-05.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>If God is Good, Why Do Bad Things Happen?<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Joel and Vaneetha Risner<\/p>\n<p>From the series:If God is Good, Why Do Bad Things Happen? (Day 2 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:April 5, 2024<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Pain has a purpose.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Yes, and I feel like that is so important for people to understand. We don\u2019t need to know the purpose. We probably will never see it.<\/p>\n<p>Jesus says to the disciples, when He\u2019s washing their feet, \u201cWhat I am doing now you do not understand, but afterwards you will.\u201d [John 13:7, Paraphrased] So, in the midst of it, we won\u2019t necessarily see the purpose, but knowing there is a purpose is pretty amazing.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I wonder if you\u2019ve ever said these words to God: \u201cGod, I\u2019m mad. I\u2019m really mad at You.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, a lot.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I don\u2019t think you say that much. I have.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What?! No, I totally have.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You\u2019re such a lover of God and others.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I love God. But I love you, and it doesn\u2019t mean I don\u2019t get mad at both of you sometimes. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>What I was thinking, Dave\u2014well, why did you ask that?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Because I do. I\u2019ve felt that from my childhood [and] even present day, there are times I\u2019m thinking, \u201cYou\u2019ve got to be kidding me.\u201d Anybody that\u2019s a chaplain for the Lions\u2014[Laughter]\u2014can get mad at God.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m kidding, I\u2019m kidding.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m thinking of the people and the women I\u2019ve talked to. When you talk to people and [hear] their stories. When you hear a parent that has lost a child, you are thinking, \u201cOh, man.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s my mom.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s one of the big ones. When you talk to a couple that has watched a spouse die or get divorced [you think], \u201cOh, man, that\u2019s a hard one.\u201d When you have your own disability, that\u2019s a big one. Then if you have\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014even a prodigal\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014yes, a prodigal or maybe you have been misdiagnosed, or treated poorly or wrongly, or an accident has happened or a mistake has happened medically. I\u2019m going through that list thinking, \u201cOur guest has gone through all of those\u2014every one, and she still loves Jesus. Who is this woman?\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I want to know why and how. Vaneetha Risner is back with her husband, Joel. Yesterday, we started talking about\u2014well we never even go to your Bible study, [Laughter] called Desperate for Hope: Questions We Ask God in Suffering, Loss, and Longing.<\/p>\n<p>Again, if you missed yesterday, go back and listen, because we heard your story. But let\u2019s talk about some of these questions because you decided, \u201cLet\u2019s write about these.\u201d One of them is: \u201cGod why are You so mad at me?\u201d That was one of your questions.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I took it right from your Bible study. Walk us through that question.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: There\u2019s this question that we have: \u201cIf God loves me, why did this happen? Why are You mad at me? Why is this happening?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s the question we all come to in suffering, in some way or another. I\u2019ve asked that numerous times. So, it\u2019s funny\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014oh, good. Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: \u2014you started, Dave, with this and asked Ann about being mad at God. She mentioned, \u201cI\u2019ve been mad at you, and I\u2019ve been mad at God.\u201d I think that is the key. You\u2019ve in a relationship with Dave, so you are honest enough to say how you feel because you know that\u2019s going to draw you closer.<\/p>\n<p>If he makes you mad and you say, \u201cOkay, Dave, you\u2019re still a wonderful husband,\u201d and you don\u2019t tell him how you feel, that\u2019s going to actually put a wall up in a weird way.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Whereas, when you yell [or] talk it out, there\u2019s a closeness.<\/p>\n<p>That is God. This is a relationship. I think I didn\u2019t totally understand that. God wants us to tell Him how we feel, because He knows. But what we do is, we do what I did; we lean away. We think we have to say, \u201cGod is good all the time. All the time, God is good.\u201d That is true, but if we don\u2019t feel it, we don\u2019t need to be saying it.<\/p>\n<p>We need to tell God how we feel because that\u2019s good in every marriage, being honest and saying, \u201cThis is how I feel.\u201d We get to hear God speak back to us His love and His presence.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Have you heard Him speak back to you His love and His presence?<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: I have, and that\u2019s\u2014to answer your question, Dave\u2014that\u2019s why I feel like I\u2019m a very lucky person, very blessed. I would not trade my life for anybody\u2019s.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wow! That\u2019s pretty powerful.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Because Jesus has been better than I imagined.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You don\u2019t, in a quiet moment, wish you didn\u2019t have polio. You don\u2019t wish the doctor didn\u2019t misdiagnose [you]. You don\u2019t have that.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: I look at people who go running, and I think, \u201cOh, that would be really fun.\u201d But some people say it\u2019s not that much fun. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s not. You\u2019re not missing anything. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: I\u2019m not missing anything.<\/p>\n<p>But the intimacy I have with Jesus, I don\u2019t think I would have other ways. The times when my life has been super good like, I would say, from the time I came to Christ to when I turned 30, my dreams all came true, and my relationship with God was pretty superficial. It was \u201cOkay, I\u2019ve got to have my quiet time. Let me check it off. Let me get that done. Okay, go to church.\u201d I taught Bible study. I did all those things, but the presence and reality of God was not the same as when I was desperate.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, because you became desperate, He became all the more present.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Yes, yes. I feel like desperation and crying out to God. You know, the children of Israel complained about God, but we need to look at God and talk to Him, and not look at our neighbors and our friends and say, \u201cWhy did God do this?\u201d [accusatory tone], but, \u201cGod, why did You do this?\u201d [Inquisitive tone]<\/p>\n<p>There is a radical difference. We see that throughout the Psalms, Job. They\u2019re all talking to God.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: I think that is the big difference. We think, \u201cOh, we can talk to our friends about how we\u2019re mad at God,\u201d but then we go to God just pretending to be holy. God talks about \u201c\u2026the people draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.\u201d [Isaiah 29:13, Paraphrased]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Joel, let me ask you, because you lost your first wife to cancer. Did you experience any of that anger toward God.<\/p>\n<p>Joel: No. I don\u2019t mean to sound like I was perfectly holy, but I did not experience anger. I had loss, grief, sorrow; but we had a really good marriage. I remember thinking, after she had died, \u201cHow can I be mad at God, because in 23 years, she poured more goodness into my life than I imagine most people get in a lifetime.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That was great.<\/p>\n<p>Joel: I wish it hadn\u2019t stopped, but I can\u2019t be mad about something that was so good.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s so sweet.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: He\u2019s really holy! [Laughter] He is a much nicer person than me.<\/p>\n<p>Joel: No, no.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: I think George Mueller, when his wife died, said, \u201cI\u2019m thankful to God for giving me the time I had, and I\u2019m thankful God took her when He did.\u201d But I\u2019m not there yet. But, Joel, it\u2019s true. You\u2019ve never said you\u2014you were just so grateful for the years that you and Barb had.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s really sweet.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: That\u2019s a wonderful testimony.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: As you walk through these questions, early in the Bible study you say one of the things that gets you through is \u201cthe three P\u2019s.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Talk about those, because I know our listeners are thinking, \u201cI want to get through. I have these questions. Help me on that journey.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Yes, yes. As I was praying about this Bible study, I was thinking, \u201cWhat do people need to hold on to? What do they need to remember when life falls apart?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The first one is the presence of God. I\u2019ve talked about how amazing that is in suffering, but it doesn\u2019t have to be this supernatural, \u201cWow! I saw lights from heaven.\u201d But just reading the Bible and asking God to make it real. But knowing that God loves you is the fundamental piece of it, because I think a lot of people don\u2019t feel loved by God.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: If you don\u2019t feel that God loves you, then it all falls apart, because then you think God is against you, and God is punishing you, and life isn\u2019t fair because God doesn\u2019t love you.<\/p>\n<p>I like to say\u2014in the Bible study, I talk about the question [that] people say: \u201cIf God loves me, why did this happen?\u201d We see that Gideon said to the angel of the Lord, \u201cIf God is with us, why did all this happen?\u201d [Judges 6:13, Paraphrased]<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s sort of our question to God. Satan wants us to ask that. Satan wants us to say \u201cif.\u201d He said to Jesus, \u201cIf you are the Son of God\u2026.\u201d [Matthew 4:6] So, he wants us to doubt God\u2019s Word; but the Bible is full of God\u2019s love for us. That\u2019s why Jesus died because God loves us so much. The question really needs to be, \u201cBecause God loves me, why did this happen?\u201d not, \u201cIf God loves me, why did this happen?\u201d And that changes everything.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m sure there are people listening today, though, that don\u2019t feel loved by God.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: And they don\u2019t know how to get there. I would say, just be honest with God. \u201cGod, I don\u2019t feel loved by You. Show me Your love.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Then I would say, open your eyes; because so often, we ask God that and then we don\u2019t look for an answer. The answer may come in reading Scripture. It may be a song on the radio. It may be a conversation that a friend has [with you]. It may be a letter we get in the mail. It may be an email. It may be so many ways that God is saying, \u201cI\u2019m here, I love you, and I\u2019m listening.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I love, even in the Bible study, that you ask a lot of questions that you can journal\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: \u2014yes\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014some of the exact things that you are asking now; you are journalling those thoughts, because we can randomly throw up these trite prayers, and we don\u2019t have a conversation with God. We just say, \u201cWhy didn\u2019t you, God?\u201d and then we go on with our lives.<\/p>\n<p>I think He would like to answer some of our questions. We had one of our friends, Jamie Winship, say, \u201cGod doesn\u2019t often answer the way we would like in the why questions: \u2018Why did You do this?\u2019 But if we ask the question, \u2018God, what do you want me to know in this situation?\u2019 we\u2019ll hear a lot of different things in a lot of different ways.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Right. I think if we don\u2019t connect God\u2019s love with concrete realities in our lives, it will stay sort of theoretical.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay, Joel, where\u2019s yours? Where did you see God this week?<\/p>\n<p>Joel: One place was this procedure Vaneetha had yesterday.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I knew you were going to say that.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I did, too.<\/p>\n<p>Joel: She had this cyst on her spine between L-4 and L-5. It was pressing on a nerve, so for the last seven months, she\u2019d been in various levels of pain and wasn\u2019t able to walk much.<\/p>\n<p>Yesterday morning, [we] went in, and she had a procedure. They drained that cyst, ad she told me, even on the way home from this medical facility, that she felt better than she had in seven months. [Laughter] That was\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Was that yours, too, Vaneetha?<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Yes. It was amazing. But one of the neat things was, I was lying on the table, and they were putting these serious needles in my back to do it. Just the\u2014I just started saying verses, \u201cThough I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, because You are with me.\u201d [Psalm 23:4, Paraphrased]<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s one of the things that I talk about in this Bible study is [to] have these verses that you pray back to God in the moments when you are afraid. You know, Isaiah 41:10 [which says], \u201cFear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Those things bring us comfort. I felt like God was in there with me. All of these things are these opportunities to draw near to God if we would call out to Him.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That answers your second question of your study: \u201cHow can I know God\u2019s presence when He feels so distant?\u201d You are saying [to] call out to Him.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Look, write down, be observant.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Right. In the Bible study, I talk about Hannah and how the words in the actual Scripture are angry tears. She was crying out, in the temple, angry tears. She wasn\u2019t saying, \u201cGod, I\u2019m so thankful that I get to be here.\u201d She was pouring out her heart, and she was different when she left, and nothing had happened. I mean, Samuel wasn\u2019t born.<\/p>\n<p>I think just pouring out our heart toward God and letting Him respond to us in stillness; it changes us.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Let\u2019s talk about your second \u201cP.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Okay, second \u201cP\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You know God\u2019s presence, and then knowing\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: \u2014Purpose.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cPain has a purpose.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Yes, and I feel like that is so important for people to understand. We don\u2019t need to know the purpose. We probably will never.<\/p>\n<p>Jesus says to the disciples when He\u2019s washing their feet, \u201cWhat I am doing now you do not understand, but afterwards you will.\u201d [John 13:7, Paraphrased] So, in the midst of it, we won\u2019t necessarily see the purpose, but knowing there is a purpose is pretty amazing.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: God is doing something in this, and it is for our joy, our eternal joy.<\/p>\n<p>It may not feel great right now; most of the time suffering does not. Yet, we can trust that God is using it, not only in the lives of people we know [as] they see our faith in Jesus, but the angels and demons see it. We are in a much bigger platform than any of us see.<\/p>\n<p>There are people [thinking], \u201cNobody sees my suffering. I\u2019m alone in a nursing home. I\u2019m listening to this on the radio, but nobody is coming in to see what I\u2019m dealing with.\u201d The angels and demons are watching. They are watching us trust Jesus and praise Him in the midst of what feels unspeakably hard.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Somebody could be thinking, \u201cShe doesn\u2019t know. She hasn\u2019t gone through this.\u201d She\u2019s kind of gone through everything. So, it\u2019s sweet that, instead of being bitter toward God, you\u2019ve lifted your eyes up to Him, and you\u2019re using everything you\u2019ve gone through for His glory.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Is it possible to get it? Because everybody is thinking, \u201cI want that joy, but I don\u2019t want the pain.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Nobody really wants to get there, but there is\u2014yes, I don\u2019t know if you can get the depths of joy if you haven\u2019t suffered.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Because you don\u2019t see your depth of need for Jesus until you are broken and in the pit and crying out saying, \u201cIf You don\u2019t do this, God, it\u2019s not going to get done.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It really is when we need Jesus, He shows up; whereas, if we don\u2019t need Him, we don\u2019t ask for Him that same way. Just opening the Bible feels very academic. It\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, I read through the Bible this year, and I learned these things,\u201d whereas, when you\u2019re in the pit, it\u2019s like \u201cJesus met me in the pages of the Bible.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, and it\u2019s like you are dying of thirst in the desert and opening the Word is like a drink of water.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Yes, it was. Like that time after my ex-husband left, that was the best part of my day. The rest of my day was like hell on earth, to the point [which] I would just lie in bed at night saying, \u201cGod where are You?\u201d I screamed at God, \u201cWhy do you hate me?\u201d But I would get up in the morning, and God would say, \u201cI love you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: One of your questions\u2014it\u2019s your last one in the book\u2014is, \u201cWhat if it never gets better?\u201d In some ways we look at you and say, \u201cYou\u2019re better,\u201d but not completely. So, what if it doesn\u2019t?<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Right, and that\u2019s the question, because we\u2019re all going to die of something. Eventually, we will all be in heaven [as believers].<\/p>\n<p>The example I have in the book is Leah. She wanted Jacob\u2019s love her whole life. We\u2019re both in Genesis in our Bible reading plan. Jacob is about to meet Esau, and he puts his people in the order of who he loves. Rachel is in\u2014Leah\u2019s got to go first, because if he\u2019s going to get somebody it\u2019s going to be Leah.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I just read that, too. I thought, \u201cPoor Leah.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: I know! She\u2019s always in that place. So, yes, sometimes it doesn\u2019t get better in this life; but it will be better in heaven. You look at Leah. She had Judah of the line of Christ. What an incredible privilege!<\/p>\n<p>So, recognize: it may not get better. The prosperity theology is, \u201cIt\u2019s going to get better. You just stay faithful to Jesus, and you\u2019re going to get the healing. We prayed for you; it\u2019s going to happen.\u201d And, you know, it doesn\u2019t always happen. People die. Barb died, and everybody was praying for her healing. And yet there is heaven.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: She is healed now.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Yes, exactly. If we see this life as just a passage to the next, it will get better. If it\u2019s not good, it\u2019s not over, because happily ever after is a blood-bought promise. If it doesn\u2019t get better in this life, it will, because God is writing a very good story with each of our lives.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I said that was my last question, but I\u2019ve got another one. [Laughter] This is for Joel. Talk about navigating suffering in marriage, because you two are married. You\u2019ve had to navigate your wife, Barb, dying. Now, you\u2019re with Vaneetha. There is suffering that still happens. Yesterday, she had a surgery. [You] don\u2019t know if there will be others. You don\u2019t know if you will [need surgery], too.<\/p>\n<p>Joel: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But a lot of marriages walk through some kind of physical or emotional suffering. How do you navigate that? How do you walk that journey?<\/p>\n<p>Joel: I think [it\u2019s] by reminding myself of how God has been faithful in the past.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Joel: I sometimes wonder, \u201cTwenty years ago, could I have done this?\u201d I look at all the things that have shaped me; and those last four years with Barb were a huge part of\u2014I remember having friends in Pittsburg tell me, \u201cYou are not the same person you were.\u201d Part of that was viewing things like physical suffering through an entirely different lens, because, as Vaneetha just said, unless the Lord comes first, we are all going to die someday.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve thought, at times, and it may sound a little odd, that it\u2019s a mercy that we grow old the way that we do. We look in the mirror, and we see our hair\u2019s getting gray or it\u2019s falling out. We have wrinkles.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Hair? [Laughter] Did you say hair? [Rubbing his own bald head]<\/p>\n<p>Joel: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I\u2019d take gray hair!<\/p>\n<p>Joel: We think of the things that we could do when we were 20, that we couldn\u2019t even try to do now. I\u2019ve wondered at times, \u201cWhat if it weren\u2019t that way? What if we stayed at our peak health until the day we died?\u201d It would be so easy to not think about eternity.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Joel: So, as we go through these things, part of it is just normal aging, and as we go through loss and various experiences, it should give us a very different perspective on suffering.<\/p>\n<p>I remember the morning after getting the news from the biopsy that Barb had cancer\u2014I don\u2019t want to sound overly dramatic, but\u2014everything changed. It was like getting a new prescription of eyeglasses and saying, \u201cOkay, I never saw that clearly before. Now, I see that that is what\u2019s really important.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The suffering that we put up with, and that I see Vaneetha dealing with each day, makes me sad in some ways, but it also pulls us closer together.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Joel: I can\u2019t imagine going through life any other way.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: We\u2019ll hear more from Dave\u2019s perspective on this and why it makes him feel like a \u201closer.\u201d His words, not mine! But first, what an astounding perspective from Joel. \u201c[I] can\u2019t imagine going through life any other way?\u201d Most people would say the exact opposite of that. They might say, \u201cI can imagine a million different ways that I think would be better than what we\u2019re going through right now.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But Vaneetha and Joel are choosing to allow the suffering to make them more and more into who they truly are as reflections of their Savior. That\u2019s just an incredible perspective to have when you\u2019re going through it.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Joel and Vaneetha Risner on FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha has written a book called Desperate for Hope: Questions We Ask God in Suffering, Loss, and Longing. This book is not only a Bible study, but also gives you video access and helps you gain practical wisdom for growth while going through really difficult times and trying to connect with God in the midst of hopelessness, in the midst of suffering.<\/p>\n<p>You can get your copy right now by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can find it in the show notes as well. Or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329. Again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I feel so\u2014what\u2019s the word\u2014like a loser. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I didn\u2019t think you were going to say that. What?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I tried to find the word, because I\u2019m watching you, and I\u2019m listening to you and thinking, \u201cThere\u2019s such maturity there.\u201d And I think, if she\u2019s three minutes late behind me, I\u2019m saying, \u201cGet up here! What are you doing back there?\u201d I\u2019m just so quick to say, \u201cGet in the car,\u201d because she can walk ably, she can run. And [I] get so annoyed by things that don\u2019t matter.<\/p>\n<p>Joel: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I know\u2014I think what you said, if that all changed for either one of us, physically, it\u2019s like a switch (hopefully) would switch very quickly and say, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s a different reality. I\u2019m not going to be impatient.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019ve got to be kidding. She\u2019s alive, and we are together. She may be in a wheelchair; I may be in a wheelchair, but we have each other.<\/p>\n<p>Joel: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: At this point, I\u2019m saying, \u201cCome on! Hurry up. Why are you being so slow? Are you putting makeup on again?\u201d [Laughter] I don\u2019t need makeup, you know?<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: We never get impatient with each other. [Laughter] Life\u2019s a dream at the Risner household.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think you\u2019re right. With my parents being married over 70 years\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: \u2014oh, wow.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014nothing changed my dad more. I felt like he was very self-centered, he was all about himself. When my mom started getting into the last phases of Alzheimer\u2019s, that\u2019s when he changed for the better.<\/p>\n<p>Joel: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: He served her, he loved her, he encouraged her. I had never seen him treat her or anyone else so well.<\/p>\n<p>Joel: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: He changed because of the suffering. That\u2019s what God can do.<\/p>\n<p>Vaneetha: Amen, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: One of the things that we love to talk about here on FamilyLife Today is the Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage getaway. This is a getaway that helps you to enjoy three days of romance and reconnection with your spouse. Guess what? Right now, it\u2019s 40 percent off, between now and Thursday, April 11th. You don\u2019t need a promo code at all. All you need to do is head over to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the link in the show notes.<\/p>\n<p>We still have 20 Weekend to Remember marriage getaways coming up between now and mid-June. So, don\u2019t let any summer plans keep you from prioritizing your marriage right now. Get ahead of the busyness and make plans for just the two of you.<\/p>\n<p>Again, you can find the link to the Weekend to Remember marriage getaway in the show notes at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Now, coming up next week is illusionist Danny Ray and his wife, Kimberly Thompson. Join us as Dave and Ann talk with them about magic, marriage, mind-reading, and communication tips for couples. That\u2019s next week, and we hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/280296","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=280296"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280866"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=280296"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=280296"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=280296"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=280296"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=280296"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=280296"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}