{"id":280287,"date":"2024-04-18T09:15:00","date_gmt":"2024-04-18T13:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/but-i-dont-want-to-give-that-up-vivian-mabuni\/"},"modified":"2025-04-30T10:59:59","modified_gmt":"2025-04-30T14:59:59","slug":"but-i-dont-want-to-give-that-up-vivian-mabuni","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/but-i-dont-want-to-give-that-up-vivian-mabuni\/","title":{"rendered":"But I Don\u2019t Want to Give That Up: Vivian Mabuni"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Does the idea of giving God your &#8220;100% yes&#8221; freak you out? Vivian Mabuni totally gets it. She talks about how scary surrendering to God can be\u2014and yet maybe it&#8217;s exactly what we need. Could letting go of that &#8220;one thing&#8221; actually save you? Vivian is also one of FamilyLife&#8217;s guest contributors to the all-new Art of Marriage group study! To learn more or order your copy, visit artofmarriage.com.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Does the idea of giving God your &#8220;100% yes&#8221; freak you out? Vivian Mabuni totally gets it. She talks about how scary surrendering to God can be\u2014and yet maybe it&#8217;s exactly what we need. Could letting go of that &#8220;one thing&#8221; actually save you? Vivian is als&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280866,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/f1e8b0bc-1ec7-4029-a82f-b156009ec73f\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:59","filesize":"26.57M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-04-18 09:15:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[],"tags":[2137],"podcast_series":[8750],"cwp_profile":[9930],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-280287","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","tag-surrendering-to-god","podcast_series-im-angry-does-god-care-vivian-darren-mabuni","cwp_profile-darrin-and-viv-mabuni","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/04\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/280287\/but-i-dont-want-to-give-that-up-vivian-mabuni","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/280287\/but-i-dont-want-to-give-that-up-vivian-mabuni","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"YCFBAikAHm\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/but-i-dont-want-to-give-that-up-vivian-mabuni\/\">But I Don\u2019t Want to Give That Up: Vivian Mabuni<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/but-i-dont-want-to-give-that-up-vivian-mabuni\/embed\/#?secret=YCFBAikAHm\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;But I Don\u2019t Want to Give That Up: Vivian Mabuni&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"YCFBAikAHm\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["MS-017631"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/f1e8b0bc-1ec7-4029-a82f-b156009ec73f\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:28:59"],"filesize":["26.57M"],"_thumbnail_id":["280866"],"show_notes":["<p>Connect with Vivian Mabuni and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.vivianmabuni.com\/\">vivianmabuni.com<\/a>, and on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/VivianMabuniWriter\">Facebook<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/vivmabuni\/?hl=en\">Instagram<\/a><br \/>\nAnd grab Vivian's book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/www.vivianmabuni.com\/open-hands-willing-heart\">Open Hands, Willing Heart: Discover the Joy of Saying Yes to God<\/a>\"<br \/>\nWant to hear more episodes by Vivian, listen <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/vivian-mabuni\/\">here<\/a>!<br \/>\nVivian is one of FamilyLife's guest contributors to the all-new Art of Marriage group study! To learn more or order your copy, visit <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/art-of-marriage\/home\/\">artofmarriage.com<\/a>.<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/familylife-today-2\/?cru_source=24EGPCandcru_medium=podcastandcru_campaign=FLToday\">Donate to FamilyLife Today!<\/a><br \/>\nFind resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><br \/>\nFind more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<br \/>\nHelp others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<br \/>\nCheck out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/p>\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-04-18.pdf"],"transcript_content":["<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>But I Don\u2019t Want to Give That Up<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Vivian and Darrin Mabuni<\/p>\n<p>From the series:I\u2019m Angry. Does God Care? (Day 1 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:April 18, 2024<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: It\u2019s all about open hands and being willing. That willingness provides the freedom and the unleashing of the adventure, really. From there, it was miracle after miracle. I tasted it; I tasted what life was like with God in the driver\u2019s seat and not me.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So, I have this observation I have made about people. [Laughter] I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s right or not.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Have I heard this before?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I don\u2019t think you\u2019ve ever heard it. It\u2019s just something I\u2019ve been noticing. There\u2019s a connection between a person\u2019s hands and their face.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I have no idea what you\u2019re\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Here\u2019s what I\u2019m saying: you see people who are tight-fisted. They\u2019re holding on; even when they\u2019re driving, their face is tense. [Laughter] It\u2019s like you\u2019re holding onto something; you don\u2019t want to let go. Your face is like\u2014[sound of pursing lips together]\u2014they\u2019re not happy people. I\u2019m not kidding you. You can drive by somebody, and they\u2019re like this\u2014you look over\u2014and they\u2019re like [tense sounds]. But if you see people like this\u2014their hands are open\u2014it seems like their face is \u201cAhh.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Their heart\u2019s open, maybe?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It just seems like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014is there a correlation, you think?<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Ooohhh.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It seems like they\u2019re relaxed. That\u2019s just my\u2014is that true?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think so.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Have you ever noticed that?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019ve never noticed it, but now I will.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, I bring it up, because we have two open-handed people sitting in the studio today. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Aww, Dave!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And they\u2019re friends of ours. We love them.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And the book\u2019s called Open Hands, Willing Heart. Vivian, when I saw your title, that\u2019s one of the first things I thought, I thought, \u201cOpen-handed people\u201d\u2014again, all analogies break down at some point, but open-handed people\u2014\u201dtend to be happy people, tend to be restful people.\u201d I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m right or not.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I don\u2019t either, but I think it\u2019s true of you two. We have Darrin, and we have Vivian, Mabuni with us today. Guys, welcome to FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Thanks for having us.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You\u2019ve been on Cru\u00ae staff for\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: \u201434\/35 years.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I was going to say, \u201c\u2026three decades.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: For a little while.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, just a blink; just a blink.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes, we were those [who] met, got engaged quickly, and got married quickly.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: We just dated three months and got engaged. We were married by about a year, a little under a year.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: From the time we were engaged until married was what? 7 \u00bd months or<\/p>\n<p>8 months.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: And it was long distance.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And you have three kids.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: We do have three kids; they\u2019re grown now.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And tell our listeners what you do now.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: We are on staff with FamilyLife\u00ae.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes; and we are on the speaker team, too, for Weekend to Remember\u00ae.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: It\u2019s been amazing. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Great people.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You\u2019re going\u2014you\u2019re taking classes in seminary.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Share a little bit, too, about your podcast.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes; I also do speaking and writing, and I have a podcast for Asian American and Pacific Islander American leaders called \u201cSomeday Is Here.\u201d I\u2019m also in seminary for the bajillionth year. [Laughter] One day\u2014one day, I will walk across that stage, but in the meantime, I\u2019ve gathered an amazing group of women\u2014about 17 other authors and speakers; just incredible women who love God\u2014and we\u2019re in a cohort. It\u2019s a closed cohort; we will take all the classes together and graduate together. I think the retention level will be so much higher, because we have each other, and there\u2019s such a generosity in that group. I\u2019m pretty excited about that future.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I feel like your whole lives\u2014Viv, we have just gotten to know each other even more recently\u2014your lives are about living open-handed. I feel like your lives, if you had to give a word to describe you guys, is: \u201csurrendered.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Take us back a little bit and share: \u201cHow did that happen?\u201d Your book, called Open Hands, Willing Heart, that\u2019s coming from somewhere. Have you always been pretty open-handed and willing?<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes and no; not so much until I came to know the Lord. Once I came to know the Lord, it really was such a dramatic change, that I said, \u201cGod, I am willing to go anywhere and do anything, whatever You want.\u201d That\u2019s when I found myself coming on staff with Cru and going to this mission project to Manila, where we met. It really was this process of, \u201cOkay, God. Whatever You want.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I think the topic of surrender, to me, is the secret sauce of the Christian life.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I am with you. [Whispering] And people don\u2019t know!<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, I think that that\u2019s the difference. If I meet another Christian, it\u2019s not a personality thing; but you know when you meet someone, who\u2014at some point in their relationship with God\u2014has surrendered. There\u2019s just a different attitude about theml there\u2019s a familiarity, like a comfortableness of a fellow-surrendered sibling. And there\u2019s something really refreshing [in that]. I found it\u2019s not based on personality; it\u2019s not based on ethnic or social status or anything like that. It really is people who have wrestled, and at some point, can look back at a time where they said, \u201cI\u2019m all in,\u201d\u2014like all the poker chips are in the middle\u2014\u201cI\u2019m putting it all on You.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Describe what you guys were like before that time.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Before that time, I was about me. I had gone through a time, because my mom passed away when I was in high school, [when] I was doing everything to escape. I realized that, even after I became a Christian, escape was still part of how I was formed.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Like what? What kind of escapes?<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Escape would be alcohol, some drugs, sex, pornography. It was anything that would take my mind off of what was going on inside. It was amazing, because I went from having this huge hole in my heart, where it just felt empty\u2014completely empty and dark, and there was no way out\u2014to coming to Jesus. All of a sudden\u2014I can\u2019t even explain it\u2014I was complete; I was whole. Also finding out\u2014it\u2019s kind of the now, and not yet\u2014God has made me whole, and yet, He is still working on me. That\u2019s the part that continues to blow my mind: \u201cFor by grace you have been saved through faithm and this not of yourself, it is the gift of God; not by works, that no one should boast.\u201d [Ephesians 2:8-9] That has stuck with me.<\/p>\n<p>The other thing that has stuck with me is the idea that when Jesus said to them: \u201cIf anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me.\u201d [Matthew 16:24] For the longest time, I would think about that of: \u201c\u2026come after Me\u201d and \u201cdeny myself,\u201d like, \u201cYes, I\u2019m going to go through troubles.\u201d He said, \u201cNo, I\u2019m talking about completely dying to yourself, not having trouble or enduring hardship, but dying to yourself\u2014dying to your will\u2014and taking up God\u2019s will.\u201d And \u201cFollow Me. Put that into your daily practice. This is what you do.\u201d It\u2019s like we\u2019ve continued to do ministry, and God is saying, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s time for you to surrender again.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: We\u2019ve come to that point many times, where God is saying, \u201cI still want it all,\u201d because I\u2019ve been sort of holding on, pulling it back.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, I\u2019d love to hear your journey (for our listeners) with that, because the natural inclination of a person, a human being, is: \u201cHold on.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Open-handed living is not natural; it\u2019s supernatural. I\u2019d love to hear your journey, because we have to go on a journey from the natural\u2014holding on\u2014to the scary: \u201cI\u2019m going to let go, whether it\u2019s my possessions, my money, even my life, or my marriage.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And I want to hear Vivian.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin, thank you. I\u2019m picturing you, as a high school boy, losing your mom\u2014a young man\u2014and just lost, totally lost. And what we try to do is probably hold onto our lives or hold onto something, but you were just escaping into anything that would bring you life, and it wasn\u2019t. That had to be hard.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay, Vivian. What were you like?<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: You know, it\u2019s interesting, because we\u2019ve been in other conversations now, even on this program, talking about how we bring baggage into our marriages; that\u2019s just the nature of things.<\/p>\n<p>For me, I grew up trying to do everything to fit in to my surrounding culture, which was predominately white. I\u2019m an Asian American, and I did not look like everybody else, but I wanted, in my soul, to fit in. So, I was a cheerleader, I did student government, and I was actually elected to be President of clubs that I didn\u2019t even know I had. I just showed up, and they\u2019re like, \u201cYou\u2019re the president of Junior Achievement now.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay!\u201d [Laughter] I just was very\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014so, you\u2019re a leader.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I was a leader and active, and I was also trying to fill an emptiness in my life. I think I recognized that awards, and money, and relationships\u2014there\u2019s still an emptiness that would not get satisfied\u2014even the cutest shoes, or the latest perfume, or music band. There\u2019s just an emptiness that I recognized was a spiritual one.<\/p>\n<p>I sat next to a friend in math class, and she started glowing. She lived the surrendered life. I thought, \u201cOh, did you become a vegetarian?\u201d [Laughter] It\u2019s like, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Did you really ask her that?<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I asked her that, because she just looked different; like there was really a countenance about her and a change. She told me, \u201cOh, I became a Christian.\u201d I asked, \u201cWhat are you\u2014what? You just go to church now?\u201d She said, \u201cNo, I have a personal relationship with Jesus.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, no!\u201d [Laughter] \u201cYou\u2019re smart and funny. How could you believe this mythology in the Bible?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Anyway, it was evident: God was real. Sitting next to her day after day, and hearing more and more of her story, it was like: \u201cThis God is real,\u201d and definitely real in my friend\u2019s life. That set me on a spiritual journey. I ended up putting my faith in Christ the summer between my sophomore and junior year.<\/p>\n<p>And then, I spent the next year really trying to live, externally, what I knew to be Christian. I didn\u2019t have a Bible. I drove myself to the mall and bought a Bible; tried to read it. It was really boring\u2014like there were a lot of kings, and measurements, some temples\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014a lot of blood.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: \u2014blood, wars. I don\u2019t know. \u201cIt\u2019s not applying to my life.\u201d I knew I was supposed to pray. I would try, and I would fall asleep. The Sundays that I would wake up and drive myself to church, I would cry through the worship songs, because there was still something that was like, \u201cThis is real,\u201d but then, I would drive home and life was just normal, like always.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Were you the only one in your family?<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, both Darrin and I are the first Christians in our family.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You\u2019re driving to church by yourself as a high school kid.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: By myself, yes; as a high school kid.<\/p>\n<p>Then my dad goes through a mid-life crisis. He comes home with the news, right before my senior year of high school, that we were moving. We weren\u2019t moving across town, or even to another state; we were moving from Boulder, Colorado, to Hong Kong. That\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014what?! What was that about?<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: \u2014that was the ultimate of the mid-life crisis, I guess. He moved our family.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And you were going into your senior year.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I was going into the senior year, that I had so meticulously built to be the most ultimate year of my life, at that point, as much as I could imagine it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: They had to drag me by my ankles all the way to Hong Kong. That is where I honestly experienced this open hands, willing heart peace in my relationship with God, because I was so mad at Him. All my securities were taken away. I could not understand the language. I spoke Mandarin; the dialect in Hong Kong is Cantonese\u2014it might as well have been Polish! There\u2019s no comprehension. The people drive on the left side of the road. I mean, everything about it was so hugely different than anything I had experienced in Boulder.<\/p>\n<p>I just told God, \u201cI am so mad at You. But in my heart, I really want to know You. If You could just give me a church youth group, Christian friends\u2014if You do that\u2014I\u2019m all in. I will give You everything. I\u2019ll hold nothing back. Otherwise, I\u2019m going to go out and get drunk, and do something I\u2019ll regret, but I\u2019m never talking to You again.\u201d That was my ultimatum prayer in Hong Kong in this little flat. God came through. He provided an amazing church youth group. God is not American. [Laughter] He understands all languages, and all peoples, and all cultures; and He met me in Hong Kong.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think that\u2019s such a good reminder, too, now that you\u2019re parents\u2014and a lot of our listeners are parents. We hate for our kids to experience pain. We hate for them to\u2014I\u2019m imagining, if we were moving, and one of our sons was going into his senior year, I\u2019d probably stay back, because I don\u2019t want him to experience pain.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And yet, sometimes, that pain is the very thing God uses to draw our kids to Him.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: That\u2019s right. I see it over and over again, because you want to protect our kids.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Roots are only formed when your forced to try to get water deeper.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I love what you just said. You said: \u201cI was mad at God, but I want to know God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You told God you were mad at Him.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, that\u2019s rare that you have both sides of that. Usually, it\u2019s, \u201cI\u2019m mad, and I\u2019m out.\u201d You [said]: \u201cI\u2019m mad\u2014I\u2019m honest\u2014but I really want to know You.\u201d Then, He revealed Himself.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, yes. He did. If we had more hours, I\u2019d share the amazing stories, but it\u2019s a long story.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Share one.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: One of the stories was after that prayer\u2014that desperate prayer (and it was a very honest prayer)\u2014I was approached by a random guy. I was at a girls\u2019 school, and we were debating, because that was in English. I could do that. [Laughter] I can argue in English, as my husband can tell you. [Laughter] He came up to me, just completely out of the blue: \u201cAre you a Christian? Would you like to come to our youth group?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It was just like a miracle! Right down the street from my school was a Christian Missionary Alliance Church that taught\u2014that had Cru staff actually there. So, I learned \u201cThe Four Spiritual Laws.\u201d I learned the ministry of the Holy Spirit. That was the very first lesson at that high school youth group in Hong Kong. It was about the ministry of the Holy Spirit\u2014which, again, I did not know that God\u2019s Spirit; that the Christian life is impossible to live; that it requires His Spirit to live out the Christian life.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s all about surrender; it\u2019s all about open hands and being willing. That willingness provides the freedom and the unleashing of the adventure, really. From there, it was like it was so amazing. It was miracle after miracle. I had tasted it; I tasted what life was like with God in the driver\u2019s seat and not me. Boy, there\u2019s so much freedom to just go\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014I mean, if you didn\u2019t move to Hong Kong, and you\u2019re still in Boulder, who knows?!<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I know.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That hardship, and being angry at God because of it, is part of the story of why you\u2019re sitting here in this very\u2014of why you even married this guy.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I know, I know!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It\u2019s amazing how God works.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And one of the things you said earlier, too, Darrin, was that it\u2019s a continual surrender.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m not sure a lot of people understand that part of it. I remember\u2014because Dave and I were on staff for 15 years with Cru\u2014and do you remember Bill Bright, who\u2019s the founder of Cru, saying, \u201cEvery morning I wake up, I fall on my knees, and I re-surrender my life: \u2018God, take it.\u2019\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI want to do that!\u201d But I find myself in situations, as life gets busy\u2014as I became a mom\u2014even in ministry, you\u2019re still going; you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You hold on.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You grip.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: So true.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, what does that look like for you, to stay open-handed and surrendered, Darrin? How do you do that?<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: A couple of things: one is that I think the Holy Spirit continues to remind us and bring us back. But a lot of times, I don\u2019t listen. [Laughter] I think that is where God is so gracious in continuing to woo us to Himself and asking us to continue to surrender. I don\u2019t hear because\u2014you said it\u2014we\u2019re busy; we get busy. The sad thing is we got busy doing ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Dave and Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: But I think the main thing is, God\u2019s continually calling. But it comes back to me trying to practice some disciplines to put myself in a place where I can hear, like having a quiet time and making sure I\u2019m in the Word. Putting those in place helped me to continually hear the Spirit.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes; I think, too, for us, as I look back, there have just been some crossroads where we needed to re-up. I think the Lord will just ask. I remember we were doing a summer mission in Japan. We had brought a group of students. I remember sitting in the back of the room, with my arms crossed. I was just so mad at God. There\u2019s a theme here. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>But I had sensed from Him: \u201cViv, would you be willing to sell the house in California?\u201d and \u201cWould you be willing to move here to learn a language you don\u2019t know and drive on the other side of the street? Would you be willing to pull your kids out of school?\u201d\u2014a school that they love, with their friends. \u201cWould you be willing to come here if I asked you?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I stomped around the streets of Japan. [Laughter] \u201cI\u2019m already a missionary! We brought students. Are You kidding me? We\u2019ve already surrendered!\u201d He was like, \u201cAre you entirely Mine?\u201d and \u201cWill you trust Me?\u201d That\u2019s really the question. \u201cWould you be willing?\u201d Just [being] willing is really the key.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I just stomped around. Finally, I came to a place of surrender again: \u201cLord, the house is Yours. The money is Yours. The kids are Yours. Our lives are Yours. We will go wherever You want us to go.\u201d That\u2019s what it\u2019s about.<\/p>\n<p>Now, the interesting thing is, the Lord never called us to do that. I think He just wanted my heart to be in check.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Surrendered.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Surrendered.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I remember, when our first son was born\u2014and I had gotten into a habit of surrendering everything to Jesus; and after that first son was born\u2014I remember the doctor came in after I was in my room. He was still being cleaned up, the baby, CJ. He said, \u201cWe believe\u201d\u2014as he came in\u2014\u201cthat this baby might have a skull fracture, and there might be some things going on.\u201d He had a pretty traumatic birth. And then he left.<\/p>\n<p>Dave, I can\u2019t remember where you were; maybe, you were looking after CJ. But I remember being in that bed, and I felt like God was saying, \u201cWill you let Me have your son?\u201d Not knowing what the future would hold\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014like Abraham and Isaac on the altar.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes! I was like, \u201cYou have my life!\u201d [Laughter] \u201cNow, You want my son\u2019s life, too?!\u201d I did battle, like, \u201cNo!!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s crazy the things we hold onto. I remember, finally, Scripture started pouring into my mind. I said, \u201cWhat else can I do? You\u2019ve given him to us, and all I can do is give him back.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think it is that check, where God\u2019s like, \u201cWill you give Me everything?\u201d I think it\u2019s a good reminder for us.<\/p>\n<p>For you, as a listener, \u201cHave you given Him everything?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Darrin, you said it earlier\u2014it\u2019s Luke 9 [verse 23]: \u201c\u2019Whoever wants to follow Me must take up his cross and deny himself.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That sounds terrible.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I know! [Laughter] It\u2019s against this\u2014the closed fist; the holding on. It\u2019s like, sometimes, it\u2019s almost like we have to have Him pry it off of our life, and our kids, and our future\u2014you name it\u2014our ministry. We can hold onto anything. God\u2019s like, \u201cThe best way to live\u201d\u2014and it\u2019s also the scariest\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014the best way!<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014because you\u2019re scared to let go, but when you understand who your heavenly Father is, He\u2019s a good Father.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, and that\u2019s where I would think Galatians 2:20 is so wonderful: \u201cI\u2019ve been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. And the life I now live, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014there it is.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: \u2014\"and delivered Himself up for me.\u201d It\u2019s like that\u2019s\u2014the basis isn\u2019t just trying to do hard things because that\u2019s what\u2019s spiritual. It\u2019s really out of trusting that God loves us. He actually delivered Himself up for us. I hope I never lose sight of how phenomenal, and gracious, and merciful God is to give His life in my place. He loves me.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: He loves you.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: He did not withhold His own Son, so I can trust Him.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Are there times when I lose sight of that on a day-to-day basis? If I\u2019m honest, yes! If you\u2019re honest, \u201cYes,\u201d maybe? I don\u2019t want to speak for you, but I\u2019ll go ahead and speak for you in this moment and say, \u201cYes! Sometimes, I lose sight of that. I forget about who I am.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Honestly, I think that is a good place to start. But when we have to move forward from there, we need to go deeper and deeper into the good news of the gospel. That was the perfect reminder that Vivian gave us today at the end of our time here. I\u2019m so grateful for that.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Shelby Abbot, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Vivian and Darrin Mabuni on FamilyLife Today. Vivian has written a book called Open Hands, Willing Heart: Discover the Joy of Saying \u2018Yes\u2019 to God. This is really about yielding ourselves wholly to God, especially in the midst of challenging circumstances. You can get your copy of Vivian\u2019s book by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can find it in the show notes. Or give us a call at 800-358-6329. You can request your copy that way. Again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, I have a question: Do you feel like your marriage might be running on empty? Have you ever told some of your closest friends that? Or maybe even your small group? Have you ever been intentional in developing a community and support system around you and your spouse? If the answer is either \u201cYes\u201d or \u201cNo;\u201d regardless of what it is, we can help.<\/p>\n<p>We know many couples who have been in your shoes, and who struggle with grieving a loved one, reconciliation, anger, a hard diagnosis, and so much more. There are speakers, preachers, and every-day couples that make up the all-new Art of Marriage\u2122, including our guest today, Vivian Mabuni. Now, this marriage study that we have in the Art of Marriage will help you grow deeper together as a couple, but more importantly, grow closer to God.<\/p>\n<p>Throughout six 25-minute sessions, Art of Marriage unpacks six biblical words that describe God\u2019s love for us and how each can be displayed throughout our messy, imperfect marriages. Yes, even your messy, imperfect marriage. If you want to learn more, you can go to the show notes, or you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the Art of Marriage banner that\u2019s up there. You can learn more there and grab your leadership kit today.<\/p>\n<p>Now, tomorrow, Vivian and Darrin Mabuni are back as they reflect on their own surrender to God and His unconditional love for them. That\u2019s tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n"],"_edit_lock":["1746025213:47000"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_c6cb806a378bc8f606821a29911dbc8c34206e64":["\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Name\" type=\"name\"  required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Email\" type=\"email\" required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Website\" type=\"url\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Message\" type=\"textarea\" \/]"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_atts_c6cb806a378bc8f606821a29911dbc8c34206e64":["a:17:{s:2:\"to\";s:29:\"margaret.coyle@familylife.com\";s:7:\"subject\";s:79:\"[FamilyLife - A Cru Ministry] But I Don\u2019t Want to Give That Up: Vivian Mabuni\";s:12:\"show_subject\";s:2:\"no\";s:6:\"widget\";i:0;s:14:\"block_template\";N;s:19:\"block_template_part\";N;s:2:\"id\";i:280287;s:18:\"submit_button_text\";s:6:\"Submit\";s:14:\"customThankyou\";s:0:\"\";s:21:\"customThankyouHeading\";s:26:\"Your message has been sent\";s:21:\"customThankyouMessage\";s:30:\"Thank you for your 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the idea of giving God your \"100% yes\" freak you out? Vivian Mabuni totally gets it. She talks about how scary surrendering to God can be\u2014and yet maybe it's exactly what we need. Could letting go of that \"one thing\" actually save you? Vivian is als...","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<p>Connect with Vivian Mabuni and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.vivianmabuni.com\/\">vivianmabuni.com<\/a>, and on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/VivianMabuniWriter\">Facebook<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/vivmabuni\/?hl=en\">Instagram<\/a><br \/>\nAnd grab Vivian's book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/www.vivianmabuni.com\/open-hands-willing-heart\">Open Hands, Willing Heart: Discover the Joy of Saying Yes to God<\/a>\"<br \/>\nWant to hear more episodes by Vivian, listen <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/vivian-mabuni\/\">here<\/a>!<br \/>\nVivian is one of FamilyLife's guest contributors to the all-new Art of Marriage group study! To learn more or order your copy, visit <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/art-of-marriage\/home\/\">artofmarriage.com<\/a>.<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/familylife-today-2\/?cru_source=24EGPCandcru_medium=podcastandcru_campaign=FLToday\">Donate to FamilyLife Today!<\/a><br \/>\nFind resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><br \/>\nFind more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<br \/>\nHelp others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<br \/>\nCheck out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/p>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-04-18.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>But I Don\u2019t Want to Give That Up<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Vivian and Darrin Mabuni<\/p>\n<p>From the series:I\u2019m Angry. Does God Care? (Day 1 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:April 18, 2024<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: It\u2019s all about open hands and being willing. That willingness provides the freedom and the unleashing of the adventure, really. From there, it was miracle after miracle. I tasted it; I tasted what life was like with God in the driver\u2019s seat and not me.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: So, I have this observation I have made about people. [Laughter] I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s right or not.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Have I heard this before?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I don\u2019t think you\u2019ve ever heard it. It\u2019s just something I\u2019ve been noticing. There\u2019s a connection between a person\u2019s hands and their face.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I have no idea what you\u2019re\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Here\u2019s what I\u2019m saying: you see people who are tight-fisted. They\u2019re holding on; even when they\u2019re driving, their face is tense. [Laughter] It\u2019s like you\u2019re holding onto something; you don\u2019t want to let go. Your face is like\u2014[sound of pursing lips together]\u2014they\u2019re not happy people. I\u2019m not kidding you. You can drive by somebody, and they\u2019re like this\u2014you look over\u2014and they\u2019re like [tense sounds]. But if you see people like this\u2014their hands are open\u2014it seems like their face is \u201cAhh.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Their heart\u2019s open, maybe?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It just seems like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014is there a correlation, you think?<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Ooohhh.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It seems like they\u2019re relaxed. That\u2019s just my\u2014is that true?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think so.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Have you ever noticed that?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019ve never noticed it, but now I will.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Well, I bring it up, because we have two open-handed people sitting in the studio today. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Aww, Dave!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And they\u2019re friends of ours. We love them.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And the book\u2019s called Open Hands, Willing Heart. Vivian, when I saw your title, that\u2019s one of the first things I thought, I thought, \u201cOpen-handed people\u201d\u2014again, all analogies break down at some point, but open-handed people\u2014\u201dtend to be happy people, tend to be restful people.\u201d I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m right or not.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I don\u2019t either, but I think it\u2019s true of you two. We have Darrin, and we have Vivian, Mabuni with us today. Guys, welcome to FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Thanks for having us.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You\u2019ve been on Cru\u00ae staff for\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: \u201434\/35 years.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I was going to say, \u201c\u2026three decades.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: For a little while.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, just a blink; just a blink.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes, we were those [who] met, got engaged quickly, and got married quickly.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: We just dated three months and got engaged. We were married by about a year, a little under a year.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: From the time we were engaged until married was what? 7 \u00bd months or<\/p>\n<p>8 months.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: And it was long distance.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And you have three kids.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: We do have three kids; they\u2019re grown now.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And tell our listeners what you do now.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: We are on staff with FamilyLife\u00ae.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes; and we are on the speaker team, too, for Weekend to Remember\u00ae.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: It\u2019s been amazing. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Great people.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You\u2019re going\u2014you\u2019re taking classes in seminary.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Share a little bit, too, about your podcast.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes; I also do speaking and writing, and I have a podcast for Asian American and Pacific Islander American leaders called \u201cSomeday Is Here.\u201d I\u2019m also in seminary for the bajillionth year. [Laughter] One day\u2014one day, I will walk across that stage, but in the meantime, I\u2019ve gathered an amazing group of women\u2014about 17 other authors and speakers; just incredible women who love God\u2014and we\u2019re in a cohort. It\u2019s a closed cohort; we will take all the classes together and graduate together. I think the retention level will be so much higher, because we have each other, and there\u2019s such a generosity in that group. I\u2019m pretty excited about that future.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I feel like your whole lives\u2014Viv, we have just gotten to know each other even more recently\u2014your lives are about living open-handed. I feel like your lives, if you had to give a word to describe you guys, is: \u201csurrendered.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Take us back a little bit and share: \u201cHow did that happen?\u201d Your book, called Open Hands, Willing Heart, that\u2019s coming from somewhere. Have you always been pretty open-handed and willing?<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes and no; not so much until I came to know the Lord. Once I came to know the Lord, it really was such a dramatic change, that I said, \u201cGod, I am willing to go anywhere and do anything, whatever You want.\u201d That\u2019s when I found myself coming on staff with Cru and going to this mission project to Manila, where we met. It really was this process of, \u201cOkay, God. Whatever You want.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I think the topic of surrender, to me, is the secret sauce of the Christian life.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I am with you. [Whispering] And people don\u2019t know!<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, I think that that\u2019s the difference. If I meet another Christian, it\u2019s not a personality thing; but you know when you meet someone, who\u2014at some point in their relationship with God\u2014has surrendered. There\u2019s just a different attitude about theml there\u2019s a familiarity, like a comfortableness of a fellow-surrendered sibling. And there\u2019s something really refreshing [in that]. I found it\u2019s not based on personality; it\u2019s not based on ethnic or social status or anything like that. It really is people who have wrestled, and at some point, can look back at a time where they said, \u201cI\u2019m all in,\u201d\u2014like all the poker chips are in the middle\u2014\u201cI\u2019m putting it all on You.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Describe what you guys were like before that time.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Before that time, I was about me. I had gone through a time, because my mom passed away when I was in high school, [when] I was doing everything to escape. I realized that, even after I became a Christian, escape was still part of how I was formed.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Like what? What kind of escapes?<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Escape would be alcohol, some drugs, sex, pornography. It was anything that would take my mind off of what was going on inside. It was amazing, because I went from having this huge hole in my heart, where it just felt empty\u2014completely empty and dark, and there was no way out\u2014to coming to Jesus. All of a sudden\u2014I can\u2019t even explain it\u2014I was complete; I was whole. Also finding out\u2014it\u2019s kind of the now, and not yet\u2014God has made me whole, and yet, He is still working on me. That\u2019s the part that continues to blow my mind: \u201cFor by grace you have been saved through faithm and this not of yourself, it is the gift of God; not by works, that no one should boast.\u201d [Ephesians 2:8-9] That has stuck with me.<\/p>\n<p>The other thing that has stuck with me is the idea that when Jesus said to them: \u201cIf anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me.\u201d [Matthew 16:24] For the longest time, I would think about that of: \u201c\u2026come after Me\u201d and \u201cdeny myself,\u201d like, \u201cYes, I\u2019m going to go through troubles.\u201d He said, \u201cNo, I\u2019m talking about completely dying to yourself, not having trouble or enduring hardship, but dying to yourself\u2014dying to your will\u2014and taking up God\u2019s will.\u201d And \u201cFollow Me. Put that into your daily practice. This is what you do.\u201d It\u2019s like we\u2019ve continued to do ministry, and God is saying, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s time for you to surrender again.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: We\u2019ve come to that point many times, where God is saying, \u201cI still want it all,\u201d because I\u2019ve been sort of holding on, pulling it back.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, I\u2019d love to hear your journey (for our listeners) with that, because the natural inclination of a person, a human being, is: \u201cHold on.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Open-handed living is not natural; it\u2019s supernatural. I\u2019d love to hear your journey, because we have to go on a journey from the natural\u2014holding on\u2014to the scary: \u201cI\u2019m going to let go, whether it\u2019s my possessions, my money, even my life, or my marriage.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And I want to hear Vivian.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin, thank you. I\u2019m picturing you, as a high school boy, losing your mom\u2014a young man\u2014and just lost, totally lost. And what we try to do is probably hold onto our lives or hold onto something, but you were just escaping into anything that would bring you life, and it wasn\u2019t. That had to be hard.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay, Vivian. What were you like?<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: You know, it\u2019s interesting, because we\u2019ve been in other conversations now, even on this program, talking about how we bring baggage into our marriages; that\u2019s just the nature of things.<\/p>\n<p>For me, I grew up trying to do everything to fit in to my surrounding culture, which was predominately white. I\u2019m an Asian American, and I did not look like everybody else, but I wanted, in my soul, to fit in. So, I was a cheerleader, I did student government, and I was actually elected to be President of clubs that I didn\u2019t even know I had. I just showed up, and they\u2019re like, \u201cYou\u2019re the president of Junior Achievement now.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay!\u201d [Laughter] I just was very\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014so, you\u2019re a leader.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I was a leader and active, and I was also trying to fill an emptiness in my life. I think I recognized that awards, and money, and relationships\u2014there\u2019s still an emptiness that would not get satisfied\u2014even the cutest shoes, or the latest perfume, or music band. There\u2019s just an emptiness that I recognized was a spiritual one.<\/p>\n<p>I sat next to a friend in math class, and she started glowing. She lived the surrendered life. I thought, \u201cOh, did you become a vegetarian?\u201d [Laughter] It\u2019s like, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Did you really ask her that?<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I asked her that, because she just looked different; like there was really a countenance about her and a change. She told me, \u201cOh, I became a Christian.\u201d I asked, \u201cWhat are you\u2014what? You just go to church now?\u201d She said, \u201cNo, I have a personal relationship with Jesus.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, no!\u201d [Laughter] \u201cYou\u2019re smart and funny. How could you believe this mythology in the Bible?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Anyway, it was evident: God was real. Sitting next to her day after day, and hearing more and more of her story, it was like: \u201cThis God is real,\u201d and definitely real in my friend\u2019s life. That set me on a spiritual journey. I ended up putting my faith in Christ the summer between my sophomore and junior year.<\/p>\n<p>And then, I spent the next year really trying to live, externally, what I knew to be Christian. I didn\u2019t have a Bible. I drove myself to the mall and bought a Bible; tried to read it. It was really boring\u2014like there were a lot of kings, and measurements, some temples\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014a lot of blood.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: \u2014blood, wars. I don\u2019t know. \u201cIt\u2019s not applying to my life.\u201d I knew I was supposed to pray. I would try, and I would fall asleep. The Sundays that I would wake up and drive myself to church, I would cry through the worship songs, because there was still something that was like, \u201cThis is real,\u201d but then, I would drive home and life was just normal, like always.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Were you the only one in your family?<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, both Darrin and I are the first Christians in our family.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You\u2019re driving to church by yourself as a high school kid.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: By myself, yes; as a high school kid.<\/p>\n<p>Then my dad goes through a mid-life crisis. He comes home with the news, right before my senior year of high school, that we were moving. We weren\u2019t moving across town, or even to another state; we were moving from Boulder, Colorado, to Hong Kong. That\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014what?! What was that about?<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: \u2014that was the ultimate of the mid-life crisis, I guess. He moved our family.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And you were going into your senior year.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I was going into the senior year, that I had so meticulously built to be the most ultimate year of my life, at that point, as much as I could imagine it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: They had to drag me by my ankles all the way to Hong Kong. That is where I honestly experienced this open hands, willing heart peace in my relationship with God, because I was so mad at Him. All my securities were taken away. I could not understand the language. I spoke Mandarin; the dialect in Hong Kong is Cantonese\u2014it might as well have been Polish! There\u2019s no comprehension. The people drive on the left side of the road. I mean, everything about it was so hugely different than anything I had experienced in Boulder.<\/p>\n<p>I just told God, \u201cI am so mad at You. But in my heart, I really want to know You. If You could just give me a church youth group, Christian friends\u2014if You do that\u2014I\u2019m all in. I will give You everything. I\u2019ll hold nothing back. Otherwise, I\u2019m going to go out and get drunk, and do something I\u2019ll regret, but I\u2019m never talking to You again.\u201d That was my ultimatum prayer in Hong Kong in this little flat. God came through. He provided an amazing church youth group. God is not American. [Laughter] He understands all languages, and all peoples, and all cultures; and He met me in Hong Kong.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think that\u2019s such a good reminder, too, now that you\u2019re parents\u2014and a lot of our listeners are parents. We hate for our kids to experience pain. We hate for them to\u2014I\u2019m imagining, if we were moving, and one of our sons was going into his senior year, I\u2019d probably stay back, because I don\u2019t want him to experience pain.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And yet, sometimes, that pain is the very thing God uses to draw our kids to Him.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: That\u2019s right. I see it over and over again, because you want to protect our kids.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Roots are only formed when your forced to try to get water deeper.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I love what you just said. You said: \u201cI was mad at God, but I want to know God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You told God you were mad at Him.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, that\u2019s rare that you have both sides of that. Usually, it\u2019s, \u201cI\u2019m mad, and I\u2019m out.\u201d You [said]: \u201cI\u2019m mad\u2014I\u2019m honest\u2014but I really want to know You.\u201d Then, He revealed Himself.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, yes. He did. If we had more hours, I\u2019d share the amazing stories, but it\u2019s a long story.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Share one.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: One of the stories was after that prayer\u2014that desperate prayer (and it was a very honest prayer)\u2014I was approached by a random guy. I was at a girls\u2019 school, and we were debating, because that was in English. I could do that. [Laughter] I can argue in English, as my husband can tell you. [Laughter] He came up to me, just completely out of the blue: \u201cAre you a Christian? Would you like to come to our youth group?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It was just like a miracle! Right down the street from my school was a Christian Missionary Alliance Church that taught\u2014that had Cru staff actually there. So, I learned \u201cThe Four Spiritual Laws.\u201d I learned the ministry of the Holy Spirit. That was the very first lesson at that high school youth group in Hong Kong. It was about the ministry of the Holy Spirit\u2014which, again, I did not know that God\u2019s Spirit; that the Christian life is impossible to live; that it requires His Spirit to live out the Christian life.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s all about surrender; it\u2019s all about open hands and being willing. That willingness provides the freedom and the unleashing of the adventure, really. From there, it was like it was so amazing. It was miracle after miracle. I had tasted it; I tasted what life was like with God in the driver\u2019s seat and not me. Boy, there\u2019s so much freedom to just go\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014I mean, if you didn\u2019t move to Hong Kong, and you\u2019re still in Boulder, who knows?!<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I know.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That hardship, and being angry at God because of it, is part of the story of why you\u2019re sitting here in this very\u2014of why you even married this guy.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I know, I know!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It\u2019s amazing how God works.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And one of the things you said earlier, too, Darrin, was that it\u2019s a continual surrender.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m not sure a lot of people understand that part of it. I remember\u2014because Dave and I were on staff for 15 years with Cru\u2014and do you remember Bill Bright, who\u2019s the founder of Cru, saying, \u201cEvery morning I wake up, I fall on my knees, and I re-surrender my life: \u2018God, take it.\u2019\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI want to do that!\u201d But I find myself in situations, as life gets busy\u2014as I became a mom\u2014even in ministry, you\u2019re still going; you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You hold on.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You grip.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: So true.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, what does that look like for you, to stay open-handed and surrendered, Darrin? How do you do that?<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: A couple of things: one is that I think the Holy Spirit continues to remind us and bring us back. But a lot of times, I don\u2019t listen. [Laughter] I think that is where God is so gracious in continuing to woo us to Himself and asking us to continue to surrender. I don\u2019t hear because\u2014you said it\u2014we\u2019re busy; we get busy. The sad thing is we got busy doing ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Dave and Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: But I think the main thing is, God\u2019s continually calling. But it comes back to me trying to practice some disciplines to put myself in a place where I can hear, like having a quiet time and making sure I\u2019m in the Word. Putting those in place helped me to continually hear the Spirit.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes; I think, too, for us, as I look back, there have just been some crossroads where we needed to re-up. I think the Lord will just ask. I remember we were doing a summer mission in Japan. We had brought a group of students. I remember sitting in the back of the room, with my arms crossed. I was just so mad at God. There\u2019s a theme here. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>But I had sensed from Him: \u201cViv, would you be willing to sell the house in California?\u201d and \u201cWould you be willing to move here to learn a language you don\u2019t know and drive on the other side of the street? Would you be willing to pull your kids out of school?\u201d\u2014a school that they love, with their friends. \u201cWould you be willing to come here if I asked you?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I stomped around the streets of Japan. [Laughter] \u201cI\u2019m already a missionary! We brought students. Are You kidding me? We\u2019ve already surrendered!\u201d He was like, \u201cAre you entirely Mine?\u201d and \u201cWill you trust Me?\u201d That\u2019s really the question. \u201cWould you be willing?\u201d Just [being] willing is really the key.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: I just stomped around. Finally, I came to a place of surrender again: \u201cLord, the house is Yours. The money is Yours. The kids are Yours. Our lives are Yours. We will go wherever You want us to go.\u201d That\u2019s what it\u2019s about.<\/p>\n<p>Now, the interesting thing is, the Lord never called us to do that. I think He just wanted my heart to be in check.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Surrendered.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Surrendered.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I remember, when our first son was born\u2014and I had gotten into a habit of surrendering everything to Jesus; and after that first son was born\u2014I remember the doctor came in after I was in my room. He was still being cleaned up, the baby, CJ. He said, \u201cWe believe\u201d\u2014as he came in\u2014\u201cthat this baby might have a skull fracture, and there might be some things going on.\u201d He had a pretty traumatic birth. And then he left.<\/p>\n<p>Dave, I can\u2019t remember where you were; maybe, you were looking after CJ. But I remember being in that bed, and I felt like God was saying, \u201cWill you let Me have your son?\u201d Not knowing what the future would hold\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014like Abraham and Isaac on the altar.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes! I was like, \u201cYou have my life!\u201d [Laughter] \u201cNow, You want my son\u2019s life, too?!\u201d I did battle, like, \u201cNo!!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It\u2019s crazy the things we hold onto. I remember, finally, Scripture started pouring into my mind. I said, \u201cWhat else can I do? You\u2019ve given him to us, and all I can do is give him back.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Wow!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I think it is that check, where God\u2019s like, \u201cWill you give Me everything?\u201d I think it\u2019s a good reminder for us.<\/p>\n<p>For you, as a listener, \u201cHave you given Him everything?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Darrin, you said it earlier\u2014it\u2019s Luke 9 [verse 23]: \u201c\u2019Whoever wants to follow Me must take up his cross and deny himself.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That sounds terrible.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I know! [Laughter] It\u2019s against this\u2014the closed fist; the holding on. It\u2019s like, sometimes, it\u2019s almost like we have to have Him pry it off of our life, and our kids, and our future\u2014you name it\u2014our ministry. We can hold onto anything. God\u2019s like, \u201cThe best way to live\u201d\u2014and it\u2019s also the scariest\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014the best way!<\/p>\n<p>Darrin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u2014because you\u2019re scared to let go, but when you understand who your heavenly Father is, He\u2019s a good Father.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: Yes, and that\u2019s where I would think Galatians 2:20 is so wonderful: \u201cI\u2019ve been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. And the life I now live, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014there it is.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: \u2014\"and delivered Himself up for me.\u201d It\u2019s like that\u2019s\u2014the basis isn\u2019t just trying to do hard things because that\u2019s what\u2019s spiritual. It\u2019s really out of trusting that God loves us. He actually delivered Himself up for us. I hope I never lose sight of how phenomenal, and gracious, and merciful God is to give His life in my place. He loves me.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: He loves you.<\/p>\n<p>Vivian: He did not withhold His own Son, so I can trust Him.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Are there times when I lose sight of that on a day-to-day basis? If I\u2019m honest, yes! If you\u2019re honest, \u201cYes,\u201d maybe? I don\u2019t want to speak for you, but I\u2019ll go ahead and speak for you in this moment and say, \u201cYes! Sometimes, I lose sight of that. I forget about who I am.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Honestly, I think that is a good place to start. But when we have to move forward from there, we need to go deeper and deeper into the good news of the gospel. That was the perfect reminder that Vivian gave us today at the end of our time here. I\u2019m so grateful for that.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Shelby Abbot, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Vivian and Darrin Mabuni on FamilyLife Today. Vivian has written a book called Open Hands, Willing Heart: Discover the Joy of Saying \u2018Yes\u2019 to God. This is really about yielding ourselves wholly to God, especially in the midst of challenging circumstances. You can get your copy of Vivian\u2019s book by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can find it in the show notes. Or give us a call at 800-358-6329. You can request your copy that way. Again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, I have a question: Do you feel like your marriage might be running on empty? Have you ever told some of your closest friends that? Or maybe even your small group? Have you ever been intentional in developing a community and support system around you and your spouse? If the answer is either \u201cYes\u201d or \u201cNo;\u201d regardless of what it is, we can help.<\/p>\n<p>We know many couples who have been in your shoes, and who struggle with grieving a loved one, reconciliation, anger, a hard diagnosis, and so much more. There are speakers, preachers, and every-day couples that make up the all-new Art of Marriage\u2122, including our guest today, Vivian Mabuni. Now, this marriage study that we have in the Art of Marriage will help you grow deeper together as a couple, but more importantly, grow closer to God.<\/p>\n<p>Throughout six 25-minute sessions, Art of Marriage unpacks six biblical words that describe God\u2019s love for us and how each can be displayed throughout our messy, imperfect marriages. Yes, even your messy, imperfect marriage. If you want to learn more, you can go to the show notes, or you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the Art of Marriage banner that\u2019s up there. You can learn more there and grab your leadership kit today.<\/p>\n<p>Now, tomorrow, Vivian and Darrin Mabuni are back as they reflect on their own surrender to God and His unconditional love for them. That\u2019s tomorrow. We hope you\u2019ll join us.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/280287","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=280287"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280866"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=280287"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=280287"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=280287"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=280287"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=280287"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=280287"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}