{"id":280268,"date":"2024-05-17T09:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-05-17T13:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/can-past-trauma-mess-up-my-marriage-mary-demuth\/"},"modified":"2024-11-19T04:15:10","modified_gmt":"2024-11-19T09:15:10","slug":"can-past-trauma-mess-up-my-marriage-mary-demuth","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/can-past-trauma-mess-up-my-marriage-mary-demuth\/","title":{"rendered":"Can Past Trauma Mess up My Marriage? Mary DeMuth"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Could your past trauma be affecting your marriage? Maybe you glimpse it in your struggles to be open, lack of emotions, or low self-image. But what if instead of burying it, you could confront it to heal? Mary DeMuth shares survivor stories, offering hope for marriages to overcome past wounds.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Is past trauma affecting your marriage? Mary DeMuth shares survivor stories to bring hope for overcoming past wounds.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280865,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/06ccd9de-211c-40f2-bf5c-b16a014d61ca\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:32:02","filesize":"29.37M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-05-17 09:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[],"tags":[2119],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9065],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-280268","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","tag-how-to-heal-from-past-trauma","cwp_profile-mary-demuth","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/280268\/can-past-trauma-mess-up-my-marriage-mary-demuth","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/280268\/can-past-trauma-mess-up-my-marriage-mary-demuth","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"4Y8e8R82O0\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/can-past-trauma-mess-up-my-marriage-mary-demuth\/\">Can Past Trauma Mess up My Marriage? Mary DeMuth<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/can-past-trauma-mess-up-my-marriage-mary-demuth\/embed\/#?secret=4Y8e8R82O0\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Can Past Trauma Mess up My Marriage? Mary DeMuth&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"4Y8e8R82O0\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["06ccd9de-211c-40f2-bf5c-b16a014d61ca"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/06ccd9de-211c-40f2-bf5c-b16a014d61ca\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:32:02"],"filesize":["29.37M"],"_thumbnail_id":["280865"],"show_notes":["\n<p>Learn mor eabout Mary's ministry:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Connect with Mary Demuth and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.marydemuth.com\/\">marydemuth.com<\/a>, and on <a href=\"http:\/\/instagram.com\/marydemuth\">Instagram,<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/AuthorMaryDeMuth\/\">Facebook<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/twitter.com\/marydemuth\">X<\/a> @marydemuth<\/li>\n<li>And grab Mary Demuth\u2019s book, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.marydemuth.com\/books\/not-marked-finding-hope-healing-sexual-abuse\/\">Not Marked: Finding Hope and Healing After Sexual Abuse<\/a> on her site.<\/li>\n<li>Intrigued by today\u2019s episode? Think deeper about Overcoming Abuse by listening to <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-god-turned-my-mess-into-his-message-noe-garcia\/\">How God Turned my Mess into His Message<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Want to <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/mary-demuth\/\">hear more episodes by Mary DeMuth, listen here<\/a>!\u00a0<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr>\n<p>FamilyLIfe Resources<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/may-2024\/?cru_source=D0002405RB&cru_medium=RadioBanner&cru_premium=PRE21802&cru_campaign=May2024&utm_source=web&utm_medium=radiobanner&utm_campaign=may2024\">Double your gift this month<\/a> when you give to FamilyLife!<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n\n"],"_edit_lock":["1729040493:47000"],"_edit_last":["47000"],"theme_header_position":["Sticky"],"post_header_is_sticky":["default"],"is_header_overlay":["0"],"episode_type":["audio"],"date_recorded":["2024-05-17 09:00:00"],"enclosure":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/06ccd9de-211c-40f2-bf5c-b16a014d61ca\/audio.mp3"],"_seopress_redirections_type":["301"],"_seopress_redirections_logged_status":["both"],"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":[""],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-05-17.pdf"],"transcript_content":["\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript\r\n\r\nReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.\r\n\r\nCan Past Trauma Mess up My Marriage?\r\n\r\nGuest:Mary DeMuth\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Healing from Sexual Abuse: My Story (Day 2 of 2)\r\n\r\nAir date:May 17, 2024\r\n\r\nShelby: Hey, Shelby Abbott here. I just want to give a heads up before you listen to this next program. Today\u2019s conversation on FamilyLife Today covers some sensitive, but important, subjects that might not be suitable for younger ears. Please use discretion when listening to this next broadcast. Alright. Now, let\u2019s jump into it.\r\n\r\nMary: He had to get to a place and work through his own anger about it\u2014not only against what did those boys did to me and those other men\u2014but against me, because I wasn\u2019t what people promised him I would be. He also got that promise: \u201cIt\u2019s all going to be great once you say, \u2018I do,\u2019\u201d and here he gets this damaged girl. For a while, what made it hard, was just that anger that made everything difficult. But once he dealt with that, [he] realized, \u201cThis is what I have. This is who I have in front of me. How do I love her? How do I serve her?\u201d\r\n\r\nShelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nAnn: This is FamilyLife\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014Today.\r\n\r\nDave: If you had an hour with a pre-married couple, what would you tell them? Something they don\u2019t know, that\u2019s going to hit them when they get married?Ann: There are so many things I could say; but one of the things I would probably say is: \u201cYour past\u2014the baggage that you carry\u2014will have a great affect on your future and on your present marriage.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Is that the first thing you thought, or did you think that because of where we\u2019re headed?\r\n\r\nAnn: Well, because we\u2019re talking about this today! We\u2019ve already had one episode. \r\n\r\nDave: We were so na\u00efve! I think most are, but we were! \r\n\r\nAnn: We were.\r\n\r\nDave: All our junk from the past: \u201cIt\u2019s in the past; it\u2019s buried\u2019 and it will not come into our marriage.\u201d [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: And I was 19! We were kids! And we\u2019re like, \u201cJesus has healed everything.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Everybody brings some luggage in, but we had like a truckload. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: I was going to say, especially, most people do have a truckload. \r\n\r\nDave: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: And they might have a really good family background, but most of us have things that we carry in.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes; we\u2019ve got Mary DeMuth back. You brought sort of a truckload into your marriage. [Laughter] \r\n\r\nMary: Sort of! A semi-truck; a couple of barges.\r\n\r\nAnn: And if you didn\u2019t listen to yesterday\u2019s episode, go back and listen to Mary\u2019s story. It\u2019s a hard one to listen to; but as you\u2019ll see, we\u2019re going to get into\u2014and we already did\u2014God\u2019s saving grace.\r\n\r\nDave: That story was something\u2014\r\n\r\nYou probably thought the same thing; and Patrick, right? As you get married, both of you\u2014did you have the same thought? \u201cIt\u2019s sort of done. I\u2019m not going to bring the sexual abuse [into my marriage]; my thoughts about sex; my visions of how that all works?\u201d Did you think, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s in the past; God heals.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: And you shared it with Patrick before you got married.\r\n\r\nMary: Yes, I wasn\u2019t deceptive or anything like that, but I think 100 percent of the listeners can relate to this: not only did I feel like I was healed, like you felt like you\u2019re healed from all your things, but I had this promise that was given to me during the \u201890s or the \u201880s, at this point, before I got married: \u201cIf you save yourself for marriage, then on that marriage night, there\u2019s this switch that happens. Suddenly, it\u2019s easy, and you\u2019re going to enjoy it.\u201d \r\n\r\nNobody prepared me for the fact that it\u2019s not easy, and it needed to involve a lot of communication. But I, through my trauma, had completely shut down and disassociated. I was just shoving things down that kept coming up. It was very hard exercise.\r\n\r\nAnn: Oh, Mary! That was pervasive in the \u201890s, that\u2019s it\u2019s just going to be that magical switch [so] that, on your honeymoon, it\u2019s going to be amazing. And it\u2019s not always amazing. \r\n\r\nMary: That gets back to theology, and that\u2019s a health and wealth gospel right there: \u201cIf you do these things\u2014if you pull these levers\u2014then God is obligated to bless you.\u201d What happens if that doesn\u2019t happen? Then you feel, either, disillusioned with God or you have to re-work your theology to move away from that kind of health and wealth thought.\r\n\r\nAnn: What did you do?\r\n\r\nMary: I don\u2019t know that I even\u2014because I was so young, like you guys were so young\u2014you don\u2019t even have the capability of thinking, \u201cOh, my theology is wrong.\u201d I just heaped shame upon myself and told myself to try to do better. That\u2019s kind of my coping mechanism of all the abuse and neglect: \u201cWell, by golly, I don\u2019t know why I\u2019m on this earth, but I\u2019m going to achieve.\u201d You can see I\u2019ve written 50 books. [Laughter] I\u2019m still working on this. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: Still achieving!\r\n\r\nMary: Exactly! [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: Is that why you went to this conference with women?\r\n\r\nMary: Yes! I was so broken there, and wanted to be so much better, that I went to this, basically, \u201cSexy Wives Women\u2019s Retreat.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: That\u2019s not what it was called! [Laughter]\r\n\r\nMary: No, I don\u2019t want to give the name, but I\u2019m just saying that\u2019s basically what\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014it wasn\u2019t the FamilyLife\u00ae Weekend to Remember\u00ae, okay? \r\n\r\nMary: No, it was not; no. \r\n\r\nDave: Alright, great.\r\n\r\nMary: It was this other retreat; it was a conference. \r\n\r\nDave: Just for women?\r\n\r\nMary: Just for women. It was about how to be all that and a bag of chips for your husband. I was like [making a gasping sound]. I looked around the room, and I thought, \u201cThere are 60 percent of us in this room [for whom] what they\u2019re saying is impossible, because we are so broken. I almost\u2014this is the only time this has ever happened to me\u2014there was this holy gumption in me that almost rose up (but I didn\u2019t)\u2014but I almost rose up in the middle of that conference [to] say, \u201cYou need to change, because there are so many of us who are broken by sexual abuse that what you\u2019re asking us to do is impossible.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: You know what? I was just thinking, \u201cYou\u2019re doing it now.\u201d [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes!\r\n\r\nMary: Yes, now, I\u2019m doing it. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: In a sense, I wish you would have too; but I\u2019m thinking, \u201cYou are now.\u201d This book, Not Marked, is helping people realize they aren\u2019t marked. This isn\u2019t their identity.\r\n\r\nAnn: So, Mary, thank you for addressing it, because you\u2019ve given us hope.\r\n\r\nMary: And this, as I mentioned before, was a joint effort on the part of my husband and me. He had to get to the place\u2014just to be super frank\u2014he had to get to the place and work through his own anger about it, not only against what those boys did to me and those other men, but against me, because I wasn\u2019t what people promised him I would be. He also got that promise that: \u201cIt\u2019s all going to be great once you say, \u2018I do\u2019.\u201d Here he gets this damaged girl. \r\n\r\nFor a while\u2014and what made it hard\u2014was just that anger that made everything difficult. But once he dealt with that, he realized, \u201cOkay; yes, it\u2019s not fair, but a lot of women are damaged in that way.\u201d So, he had to say, \u201cOkay, this is what I have. This is who I have in front of me. How do I love her? How do I serve her?\u201d\r\n\r\nThe best thing he did for me was to read Dan Allender\u2019s book, The Wounded Heart.\r\n\r\nAnn: Dave did, too!\r\n\r\nMary: And he was shocked afterwards. He came and apologized; he repented. And he said, \u201cI had, literally, no idea how pervasive that trauma was. It affects every area of your life, and I am so sorry.\u201d Thus began us finally having frank conversations about our sex life and how we can make it a mutually-enjoyable experience. \r\n\r\nI finally was brave enough to say, \u201cThis, but not that.\u201d You know, those kinds of things that are just excruciating to talk about. I could do that because he had worked through his anger of: \u201cI didn\u2019t get what I wanted.\u201d I [thought], \u201cI didn\u2019t get what I wanted either. We\u2019re both broken, so let\u2019s acknowledge.\u201d That, to me, is a huge encouragement to all couples. You might think that one\u2014and this is not necessarily related to sex; you might think: \u201cWell, he is the problem,\u201d or \u201cShe\u2019s the problem.\u201d But the camaraderie returned in our marriage when both of us said, \u201cWe\u2019re the problem.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: Whoo!\r\n\r\nDave: Hearing you say that, it\u2019s so our journey! I [read] the exact same book! I just didn\u2019t know. And I was disappointed in Ann.\r\n\r\nMary: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: I was like, \u201cYou have to be kidding me. I don\u2019t want to go on this journey. That\u2019s your journey.\u201d \u201cBut, no; that\u2019s our journey.\u201d [Laughter] \r\n\r\nBut at first, I was so angry; but reading that, saying, \u201cThat isn\u2019t what your wife needs. She doesn\u2019t need an angry husband. She needs a compassionate, empathetic partner, who can be gentle and sensitive, and say, \u201cI want to hear your heart,\u201d right? I had never said that to you. And then, laying on the spiritual part of it, it was like, \u201cJesus heals. You\u2019re not receiving; you\u2019re not understanding who you are in Christ.\u201d All that was so wrong from me, as a husband. I think a lot of us do that. \r\n\r\nTo hear both of you say, \u201cThis is what you need,\u201d in a sense, it means for us, as men\u2014Patrick wrote about it\u2014to say, \u201cOkay, we\u2019ve got to go before God and say, \u2018God, soften my heart so I can be what she deserves and needs.\u2019\u201d How does a husband talk to his wife about this? Or even, how does a wife talk to her husband? Because I think some of our listeners are: \u201cI want to go there. It\u2019s scary; I\u2019m afraid. I also don\u2019t want to share anything.\u201d But how do we start this conversation?\r\n\r\nAnn: And you also talk about [how] telling your story brings freedom. Is that the first place that you tell your story?\r\n\r\nMary: I think it can be. The main thing is that it\u2019s a safe person. But again, as I mentioned before, maybe, if it\u2019s so scary for you, write it down and push the letter across to your spouse. \r\n\r\nI don\u2019t want to forget that there are men in the audience out there who have been sexually abused; and they don\u2019t talk about it, because there\u2019s further shame. Especially, no matter what it was, whether it was from a man or from a woman, there\u2019s just this heavy shame; maybe he needs to write that letter and push it across the table to his wife. That will mess with you so much, just as much as it messes with a woman; because again, it attacks that image of God: \u201cYou are an object, not a human being.\u201d That\u2019s such a big lie of the enemy.\r\n\r\nDave: You and Patrick have done that\u2014\r\n\r\nMary: \u2014we have, but I was\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014now, for decades. \r\n\r\nMary: I was terrified! But I will tell the audience this: the first time is terrifying. After that, it gets so much easier. Once you\u2019ve let the cat out of the bag, the cat\u2019s roaming around your house; and now, you have to feed it. [Laughter] You begin to have a level of intimacy in your marriage that you\u2019ve never had before. There\u2019s a huge cost-benefit analysis\u2014an ROI [return on investment], if you will\u2014of sharing once, because it begins to open up some of those closets that you have shut to your partner. \r\n\r\nPatrick gave me this illustration once\u2014and I believe it\u2019s in the book\u2014of [how] sexual abuse causes you to disconnect from human beings, and not just in your marriage. He said, \u201cIt\u2019s like you\u2019re on a high dive, and the kids and I are in the pool. You\u2019re pacing back and forth on the high dive, and you cannot jump into the pool. We\u2019re splashing; we\u2019re having fun. And what you do instead is, you walk back down because you\u2019re afraid. You get back down, you come to the side of the pool, and you put your toe in; but that\u2019s it.\u201d \r\n\r\nThat pictured, for me, disassociation. I realized, \u201cI need counseling, because I cannot join them. I can\u2019t play with my kids; I have a hard time being a little kid with them. I\u2019m disconnected from people I love the most. I need to reconnect with who I am and with who they are, and I need help.\u201d Besides talking with him, I also had to get some help.\r\n\r\nAnn: What do you mean [when] you talk about having more counselors than you realize; there\u2019s more help than you realize? What do you mean by that?\r\n\r\nMary: Well, yes, I know there are people out there who cannot afford counseling; because that was me for so many years\/for a decade. I would do is I would read a lot of books; I would read some of those Allender books. There are a lot more out there now; a lot of great resources in the Christian space. But also The Body Keeps the Score, which is a general market book. That book changed everything.\r\n\r\nAnn: I haven\u2019t read that. Who\u2019s it by?\r\n\r\nMary: Bessel [van der] Kolk. He talks about [how] we hold trauma in our bodies. I read it, and I had a sense to it; I intellectually assented to it. \r\n\r\nAnd then, I found who that guy was, who had abused me; and I don\u2019t advise this to anybody, but on our anniversary, we went on a trauma tour. Don\u2019t ever do this on your anniversary! [Laughter] We went back to all of those places that it had happened, and I remembered everything. There\u2019s pictures of me smiling in front of the hemlock tree: \u201cJesus is so good.\u201d Patrick did it with me; it was like this awesome tour of God\u2019s awesomeness. We get to the Airbnb\u00ae, and then, I start vomiting. \r\n\r\nAnn: This is your body keeping score.\r\n\r\nMary: My body kept the score of that trauma.\r\n\r\nAnn: What do you mean when you talk about: \u201cHow God made you is how He heals you?\u201d \r\n\r\nMary: Yes, one of the ways that God has healed me is through being a writer. God uses every book to heal me. The way in which you are bent is the way in which God heals you. I paint pictures; I write books. All of those creative ways that God has made me have been part of my healing journey. \r\n\r\nExamine your life: how has God created you? He\u2019s going to probably use those pathways and your strengths to be a part of that healing journey.\r\n\r\nAnn: I think that\u2019s fascinating. Dave, I think about you, because your upbringing was traumatic. And I think about music. \r\n\r\nDave: Yes, that\u2019s what I thought.\r\n\r\nAnn: You started playing guitar when you were eight. You\u2019ve played so many things.\r\n\r\nDave: I wonder if it was an escape.\r\n\r\nAnn: But also, that God has healed you through it, in a way, too. It was a release.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes, who would think God heals through The Beatles\u2014[Laughter]\r\n\r\nMary: \u2014but He does! \r\n\r\nDave: He sort of did, you know?\r\n\r\nAnn: But I think it\u2019s because you\u2019re an artist as well. \r\n\r\nFor listeners to think through: \u201cWhat are your gifts? What are your passions? What are the things that you do, that when you do it, you feel, \u2018Aww! That fills me up\u2019?\u201d That\u2019s part of the way God is healing you.\r\n\r\nDave: In some ways, I think God\u2014you\u2019ve already said it\u2014heals you through talking about it.\r\n\r\nAnn: Me, too.\r\n\r\nDave: As public speakers, as communicators, doing what we\u2019re doing right now, talking about it\u2014I think this conversation is going to help some men and women have conversations they\u2019ve never had. \r\n\r\nMary: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: As I sit here, thinking of two women who walked into their marriage with sexual abuse, whether your husband at the time knew it or even understood the depth of it, what would you change? Is there anything, if you look back and if you could do that again, you would do differently? Especially thinking of a woman who\u2019s walking into a marriage right now, who\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019ve got their story. Help me!\u201d\r\n\r\nMary: I would think, if we could have had the economics to do it\u2014and again, we didn\u2019t; so I can\u2019t change it\u2014but to go to counseling together and have a trauma-informed counselor be able to educate both of us about trauma and how it\u2019s going to manifest in our marriage and to help my husband understand that this is a deep wound and help me understand\u2014because I was like you: \u201cOh, it\u2019s all healed!\u201d A heads up would have been so helpful.\r\n\r\nThat\u2019s what we\u2019re doing today. We\u2019re giving you a heads up of: \u201cIt does matter. It doesn\u2019t work to stuff it. It\u2019s like a beach ball\u2014you can hold it down for a long period of time under water, but it will, eventually, pop up; because there\u2019s air in it. The air is the story. You have to let the story out (let the air out). But in other capacities, you asked: \u201cHow else can I heal?\u201d They can read books; they can talk to friends; they can explore their gifts; they can go to counseling. There are a lot of different ways. God is super creative, and He can use really creative ways to heal us.\r\n\r\nAnn: I would have said the same thing, and I would have said to myself\u2014I say this, now, to younger women: \r\n\r\nJust know that God is gracious in His timing of healing. He could have healed me all at once. Wouldn\u2019t that be great?! if all of it was healed: \u201cOh, you\u2019re done! You\u2019re healed. You\u2019re great.\u201d \r\n\r\nBut He\u2019s gracious; and sometimes, it takes time. It\u2019s like I always refer it to as an infection going on in your body. He\u2019s so gracious to remove the scab; and then, some of the infection will come out. I\u2019m always mad, like, \u201cWait a minute! I thought that was all healed,\u201d and then, something else will come up where I\u2019m triggered or a response will happen, and I realize, \u201cOh, He\u2019s so gracious! I couldn\u2019t receive all the healing at once; it was too traumatic. So now, I\u2019m going to go back into it again and allow Him to heal some more.\u201d \r\n\r\nI wish it were all at once\u2014and for some people, I\u2019m sure it could be; but I think He\u2019s gracious for even us, Dave, in our marriage. We\u2019ve had to be really intimate and know each other so well, and that doesn\u2019t come all at once either. It takes time; it takes Jesus.\r\n\r\nMary, one of the things I have appreciated about you is your love for God\u2019s Word and how that\u2014His Word\u2014has healed you. That\u2019s a passion for you. Will you just talk about that the last few minutes? Why is that important? \r\n\r\nMary: Well, what I love about the Bible is, first of all, we have to remember when it is prescriptive versus descriptive. You do see sexual assault in the Bible, but it is not prescriptive: \u201cYou should go sexually assault people.\u201d It\u2019s descriptive. Every time in the Bible, when you see sexual assault, violence follows or war follows, [thus giving] that understanding of: \u201cGod really hates this!\u201d and \u201cReally bad things are a result of sexual violence; it begets physical violence.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: I\u2019ve never thought of that, like Dinah [Genesis 34].\r\n\r\nMary: Yes! If you think back to all those\u2014Bathsheba is the same, it\u2019s amazing how\u2014Tamar, too [2 Samuel 13]\u2014So, reading the Bible, and finding myself in it, and realizing that God is for the quartet of the vulnerable in the Old Testament, and I felt so much like part of that. \r\n\r\nThe other thing that I found in the Bible was this idea of what you said: \u201cI am broken; I am wounded; I am weak; but those are the places where Jesus shines the best.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nMary: When we have it all together, we\u2019re doing this [arm out]. We\u2019re stiff-arming God. But when we know we\u2019re a mess, we have this dance floor for Jesus to dance His best steps.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nMary: You know, it\u2019s so amazing.\r\n\r\nDave: What would you two say to the husbands? I\u2019ve sort of said it, but coming from one of you or both of you to a husband who is married to a woman, and he\u2019s just realized\u2014maybe, he knew it, but now, he\u2019s realizing: \u201cOh, this is a real deal in our marriage. She has been abused.\u201d Maybe, he has, but I\u2019m thinking he\u2019s discovered she has [been affected by abuse], like when I realized. Again, he thinks, \u201cOkay,\u201d\u2014probably like me\u2014\u201cit\u2019s not a big deal.\u201d \r\n\r\nNo, it\u2019s a really big deal. It\u2019s bigger than you have any idea of. I\u2019ve already said that. What would you, as a wife and as a woman, say to this man? What does he need to know or do?\r\n\r\nMary: I would just go back to: \u201cLove her as Christ loves the church.\u201d [Ephesians 5:25] That means he sacrifices for her, which means he sacrifices sex, he sacrifices convenience, he sacrifices needs, and he sacrifices his own way of understanding it and thinking that he\u2019s got it all figured out. That means you ask questions, and you find out: \u201cWhy does this hurt you? Why are you struggling?\u201d And not in an accusatory way, but: \u201cI want to understand you, because if I\u2019m Christ to the church\u2014if I\u2019m serving and loving\u2014I have to understand who I am serving and loving.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnd then, also, stop comparing yourself to ideal other couples.\r\n\r\nAnn: That\u2019s good.\r\n\r\nMary: Because nobody knows what is going on behind closed doors; but I think we think we do: \u201cOh, I\u2019m not as cool as them.\u201d And we feel bad. No! This is your marriage. These are two people God has brought together. You need to both, wife and husband, know each other in order to sacrifice and serve the other.\r\n\r\nAnn: I would say that same thing. The Scripture that came to my mind was\u2014in Scripture, when it refers to sexual intimacy, many times it\u2019ll say, \u201cAnd he knew her.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Yada. \r\n\r\nAnn: That\u2019s what I would say to the husband: \u201cKnow her.\u201d It\u2019s not just an act when you know all of her. It\u2019s the intimacy of every part of us. Take your time; know all parts of your wife, because the outcome will be better than you ever expected, because it\u2019s more than just a physical act. \r\n\r\nWill you pray? There are so many people who are being affected by this. Will you pray for them?\r\n\r\nMary: Yes.\r\n\r\nJesus, we thank You for those listening today, who may have a fractured story. We know that You are the Mender of all those stories. And Lord, I pray that You would place a safe person in their life to be able to share that story with. I pray that You will use their bent to heal them. I pray that You would send healers into their lives. \r\n\r\nAnd I pray for marriages. I pray, Lord, that there would be enough safety in marriages that people wouldn\u2019t feel afraid to share. And I pray for a revolution, Lord, and a revelation; a revolution of sacrifice and love for each other and a revelation of who You are and how You heal. \r\n\r\nI know it\u2019s a huge conundrum, Lord. I know that people, who have been abused, ask the question: \u201cWhere were You?\u201d So, Lord, sometimes we can\u2019t honestly answer that, this side of heaven; but You tenderly hold our stories. I thank You for doing that. \r\n\r\nAnd I pray supernatural healing over those listening today. I know it starts with one step, but I pray it will be ten steps, and twenty steps, and a hundred steps; that this journey would be beautiful, and that they would experience You like no other way that they\u2019ve ever experienced You. We experience You when we\u2019re broken. Instead of stiff-arming You, Lord, and blaming You, we ask that You would come into those tender spaces in our marriage and in our lives to heal us.\r\n\r\nI pray this in the beautiful Name of Jesus. Amen.\r\n\r\nAnn: Amen.\r\n\r\nShelby: I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Mary DeMuth on FamilyLife Today. I have certainly asked that question: \u201cGod, where were You?\u201d I\u2019m a sexual-abuse survivor myself, and I was just a little kid when it happened to me. I really appreciate her insight today (that Mary gave), and honestly, just her willingness to be vulnerable and honest, because it truly does help with the healing process as we listen to all of that. \r\n\r\nMary has written a book called Not Marked: Finding Hope &amp;amp; Healing After Sexual Abuse. This book is, obviously, deeply personal for her, but it also gives some added insight from her husband, Patrick, about how a spouse can really support their wife or husband who has gone through something traumatic like this. You can get your copy of Mary\u2019s book, Not Marked, by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, and you can find it in the show notes. Or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\r\n\r\nYou know, one of the things I love about FamilyLife\u00ae, and being a part of this ministry, is that we\u2019re not afraid to talk about topics like we heard today. We want to help and be part of healing in people\u2019s lives. We want to offer hope; we want to reach out to them and help marriages and families move toward Jesus and become a part of the solution in other people\u2019s lives to help them see Jesus. \r\n\r\nAnd that\u2019s why I\u2019m excited for the month of May, because any donation given will be matched, dollar-for-dollar, up to $550,000. That means when you give a monthly gift of $100, it actually becomes $200 a month. That\u2019s the uniqueness of the month of May. So, I encourage you to head online to FamilyLifeToday.com; click on the \u201cDonate Now\u201d button at the top of the page, and it will walk you through how to become a partner with us to help reach more marriages and families. Or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \r\n\r\nNow, coming up next week, join us as award-winning musician, Jamie Grace, sits down with the Wilsons to talk about mental health and the struggles she\u2019s been through with Tourette\u2019s [Syndrome], ADHD, and anxiety. That\u2019s coming up next week. We hope you\u2019ll join us. \r\n\r\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?  Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776535419;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg",1024,1024,true]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"Margaret","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/margaret-coylefamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Is past trauma affecting your marriage? Mary DeMuth shares survivor stories to bring hope for overcoming past wounds.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"\n<p>Learn mor eabout Mary's ministry:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Connect with Mary Demuth and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.marydemuth.com\/\">marydemuth.com<\/a>, and on <a href=\"http:\/\/instagram.com\/marydemuth\">Instagram,<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/AuthorMaryDeMuth\/\">Facebook<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/twitter.com\/marydemuth\">X<\/a> @marydemuth<\/li>\n<li>And grab Mary Demuth\u2019s book, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.marydemuth.com\/books\/not-marked-finding-hope-healing-sexual-abuse\/\">Not Marked: Finding Hope and Healing After Sexual Abuse<\/a> on her site.<\/li>\n<li>Intrigued by today\u2019s episode? Think deeper about Overcoming Abuse by listening to <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-god-turned-my-mess-into-his-message-noe-garcia\/\">How God Turned my Mess into His Message<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Want to <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/mary-demuth\/\">hear more episodes by Mary DeMuth, listen here<\/a>!\u00a0<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr>\n<p>FamilyLIfe Resources<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/may-2024\/?cru_source=D0002405RB&cru_medium=RadioBanner&cru_premium=PRE21802&cru_campaign=May2024&utm_source=web&utm_medium=radiobanner&utm_campaign=may2024\">Double your gift this month<\/a> when you give to FamilyLife!<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-05-17.pdf","transcript_content":"\nFamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript\r\n\r\nReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.\r\n\r\nCan Past Trauma Mess up My Marriage?\r\n\r\nGuest:Mary DeMuth\r\n\r\nFrom the series:Healing from Sexual Abuse: My Story (Day 2 of 2)\r\n\r\nAir date:May 17, 2024\r\n\r\nShelby: Hey, Shelby Abbott here. I just want to give a heads up before you listen to this next program. Today\u2019s conversation on FamilyLife Today covers some sensitive, but important, subjects that might not be suitable for younger ears. Please use discretion when listening to this next broadcast. Alright. Now, let\u2019s jump into it.\r\n\r\nMary: He had to get to a place and work through his own anger about it\u2014not only against what did those boys did to me and those other men\u2014but against me, because I wasn\u2019t what people promised him I would be. He also got that promise: \u201cIt\u2019s all going to be great once you say, \u2018I do,\u2019\u201d and here he gets this damaged girl. For a while, what made it hard, was just that anger that made everything difficult. But once he dealt with that, [he] realized, \u201cThis is what I have. This is who I have in front of me. How do I love her? How do I serve her?\u201d\r\n\r\nShelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.\r\n\r\nAnn: This is FamilyLife\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014Today.\r\n\r\nDave: If you had an hour with a pre-married couple, what would you tell them? Something they don\u2019t know, that\u2019s going to hit them when they get married?Ann: There are so many things I could say; but one of the things I would probably say is: \u201cYour past\u2014the baggage that you carry\u2014will have a great affect on your future and on your present marriage.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Is that the first thing you thought, or did you think that because of where we\u2019re headed?\r\n\r\nAnn: Well, because we\u2019re talking about this today! We\u2019ve already had one episode. \r\n\r\nDave: We were so na\u00efve! I think most are, but we were! \r\n\r\nAnn: We were.\r\n\r\nDave: All our junk from the past: \u201cIt\u2019s in the past; it\u2019s buried\u2019 and it will not come into our marriage.\u201d [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: And I was 19! We were kids! And we\u2019re like, \u201cJesus has healed everything.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Everybody brings some luggage in, but we had like a truckload. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: I was going to say, especially, most people do have a truckload. \r\n\r\nDave: Yes.\r\n\r\nAnn: And they might have a really good family background, but most of us have things that we carry in.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes; we\u2019ve got Mary DeMuth back. You brought sort of a truckload into your marriage. [Laughter] \r\n\r\nMary: Sort of! A semi-truck; a couple of barges.\r\n\r\nAnn: And if you didn\u2019t listen to yesterday\u2019s episode, go back and listen to Mary\u2019s story. It\u2019s a hard one to listen to; but as you\u2019ll see, we\u2019re going to get into\u2014and we already did\u2014God\u2019s saving grace.\r\n\r\nDave: That story was something\u2014\r\n\r\nYou probably thought the same thing; and Patrick, right? As you get married, both of you\u2014did you have the same thought? \u201cIt\u2019s sort of done. I\u2019m not going to bring the sexual abuse [into my marriage]; my thoughts about sex; my visions of how that all works?\u201d Did you think, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s in the past; God heals.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: And you shared it with Patrick before you got married.\r\n\r\nMary: Yes, I wasn\u2019t deceptive or anything like that, but I think 100 percent of the listeners can relate to this: not only did I feel like I was healed, like you felt like you\u2019re healed from all your things, but I had this promise that was given to me during the \u201890s or the \u201880s, at this point, before I got married: \u201cIf you save yourself for marriage, then on that marriage night, there\u2019s this switch that happens. Suddenly, it\u2019s easy, and you\u2019re going to enjoy it.\u201d \r\n\r\nNobody prepared me for the fact that it\u2019s not easy, and it needed to involve a lot of communication. But I, through my trauma, had completely shut down and disassociated. I was just shoving things down that kept coming up. It was very hard exercise.\r\n\r\nAnn: Oh, Mary! That was pervasive in the \u201890s, that\u2019s it\u2019s just going to be that magical switch [so] that, on your honeymoon, it\u2019s going to be amazing. And it\u2019s not always amazing. \r\n\r\nMary: That gets back to theology, and that\u2019s a health and wealth gospel right there: \u201cIf you do these things\u2014if you pull these levers\u2014then God is obligated to bless you.\u201d What happens if that doesn\u2019t happen? Then you feel, either, disillusioned with God or you have to re-work your theology to move away from that kind of health and wealth thought.\r\n\r\nAnn: What did you do?\r\n\r\nMary: I don\u2019t know that I even\u2014because I was so young, like you guys were so young\u2014you don\u2019t even have the capability of thinking, \u201cOh, my theology is wrong.\u201d I just heaped shame upon myself and told myself to try to do better. That\u2019s kind of my coping mechanism of all the abuse and neglect: \u201cWell, by golly, I don\u2019t know why I\u2019m on this earth, but I\u2019m going to achieve.\u201d You can see I\u2019ve written 50 books. [Laughter] I\u2019m still working on this. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: Still achieving!\r\n\r\nMary: Exactly! [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: Is that why you went to this conference with women?\r\n\r\nMary: Yes! I was so broken there, and wanted to be so much better, that I went to this, basically, \u201cSexy Wives Women\u2019s Retreat.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: That\u2019s not what it was called! [Laughter]\r\n\r\nMary: No, I don\u2019t want to give the name, but I\u2019m just saying that\u2019s basically what\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014it wasn\u2019t the FamilyLife\u00ae Weekend to Remember\u00ae, okay? \r\n\r\nMary: No, it was not; no. \r\n\r\nDave: Alright, great.\r\n\r\nMary: It was this other retreat; it was a conference. \r\n\r\nDave: Just for women?\r\n\r\nMary: Just for women. It was about how to be all that and a bag of chips for your husband. I was like [making a gasping sound]. I looked around the room, and I thought, \u201cThere are 60 percent of us in this room [for whom] what they\u2019re saying is impossible, because we are so broken. I almost\u2014this is the only time this has ever happened to me\u2014there was this holy gumption in me that almost rose up (but I didn\u2019t)\u2014but I almost rose up in the middle of that conference [to] say, \u201cYou need to change, because there are so many of us who are broken by sexual abuse that what you\u2019re asking us to do is impossible.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: You know what? I was just thinking, \u201cYou\u2019re doing it now.\u201d [Laughter]\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes!\r\n\r\nMary: Yes, now, I\u2019m doing it. [Laughter]\r\n\r\nDave: In a sense, I wish you would have too; but I\u2019m thinking, \u201cYou are now.\u201d This book, Not Marked, is helping people realize they aren\u2019t marked. This isn\u2019t their identity.\r\n\r\nAnn: So, Mary, thank you for addressing it, because you\u2019ve given us hope.\r\n\r\nMary: And this, as I mentioned before, was a joint effort on the part of my husband and me. He had to get to the place\u2014just to be super frank\u2014he had to get to the place and work through his own anger about it, not only against what those boys did to me and those other men, but against me, because I wasn\u2019t what people promised him I would be. He also got that promise that: \u201cIt\u2019s all going to be great once you say, \u2018I do\u2019.\u201d Here he gets this damaged girl. \r\n\r\nFor a while\u2014and what made it hard\u2014was just that anger that made everything difficult. But once he dealt with that, he realized, \u201cOkay; yes, it\u2019s not fair, but a lot of women are damaged in that way.\u201d So, he had to say, \u201cOkay, this is what I have. This is who I have in front of me. How do I love her? How do I serve her?\u201d\r\n\r\nThe best thing he did for me was to read Dan Allender\u2019s book, The Wounded Heart.\r\n\r\nAnn: Dave did, too!\r\n\r\nMary: And he was shocked afterwards. He came and apologized; he repented. And he said, \u201cI had, literally, no idea how pervasive that trauma was. It affects every area of your life, and I am so sorry.\u201d Thus began us finally having frank conversations about our sex life and how we can make it a mutually-enjoyable experience. \r\n\r\nI finally was brave enough to say, \u201cThis, but not that.\u201d You know, those kinds of things that are just excruciating to talk about. I could do that because he had worked through his anger of: \u201cI didn\u2019t get what I wanted.\u201d I [thought], \u201cI didn\u2019t get what I wanted either. We\u2019re both broken, so let\u2019s acknowledge.\u201d That, to me, is a huge encouragement to all couples. You might think that one\u2014and this is not necessarily related to sex; you might think: \u201cWell, he is the problem,\u201d or \u201cShe\u2019s the problem.\u201d But the camaraderie returned in our marriage when both of us said, \u201cWe\u2019re the problem.\u201d \r\n\r\nAnn: Whoo!\r\n\r\nDave: Hearing you say that, it\u2019s so our journey! I [read] the exact same book! I just didn\u2019t know. And I was disappointed in Ann.\r\n\r\nMary: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: I was like, \u201cYou have to be kidding me. I don\u2019t want to go on this journey. That\u2019s your journey.\u201d \u201cBut, no; that\u2019s our journey.\u201d [Laughter] \r\n\r\nBut at first, I was so angry; but reading that, saying, \u201cThat isn\u2019t what your wife needs. She doesn\u2019t need an angry husband. She needs a compassionate, empathetic partner, who can be gentle and sensitive, and say, \u201cI want to hear your heart,\u201d right? I had never said that to you. And then, laying on the spiritual part of it, it was like, \u201cJesus heals. You\u2019re not receiving; you\u2019re not understanding who you are in Christ.\u201d All that was so wrong from me, as a husband. I think a lot of us do that. \r\n\r\nTo hear both of you say, \u201cThis is what you need,\u201d in a sense, it means for us, as men\u2014Patrick wrote about it\u2014to say, \u201cOkay, we\u2019ve got to go before God and say, \u2018God, soften my heart so I can be what she deserves and needs.\u2019\u201d How does a husband talk to his wife about this? Or even, how does a wife talk to her husband? Because I think some of our listeners are: \u201cI want to go there. It\u2019s scary; I\u2019m afraid. I also don\u2019t want to share anything.\u201d But how do we start this conversation?\r\n\r\nAnn: And you also talk about [how] telling your story brings freedom. Is that the first place that you tell your story?\r\n\r\nMary: I think it can be. The main thing is that it\u2019s a safe person. But again, as I mentioned before, maybe, if it\u2019s so scary for you, write it down and push the letter across to your spouse. \r\n\r\nI don\u2019t want to forget that there are men in the audience out there who have been sexually abused; and they don\u2019t talk about it, because there\u2019s further shame. Especially, no matter what it was, whether it was from a man or from a woman, there\u2019s just this heavy shame; maybe he needs to write that letter and push it across the table to his wife. That will mess with you so much, just as much as it messes with a woman; because again, it attacks that image of God: \u201cYou are an object, not a human being.\u201d That\u2019s such a big lie of the enemy.\r\n\r\nDave: You and Patrick have done that\u2014\r\n\r\nMary: \u2014we have, but I was\u2014\r\n\r\nDave: \u2014now, for decades. \r\n\r\nMary: I was terrified! But I will tell the audience this: the first time is terrifying. After that, it gets so much easier. Once you\u2019ve let the cat out of the bag, the cat\u2019s roaming around your house; and now, you have to feed it. [Laughter] You begin to have a level of intimacy in your marriage that you\u2019ve never had before. There\u2019s a huge cost-benefit analysis\u2014an ROI [return on investment], if you will\u2014of sharing once, because it begins to open up some of those closets that you have shut to your partner. \r\n\r\nPatrick gave me this illustration once\u2014and I believe it\u2019s in the book\u2014of [how] sexual abuse causes you to disconnect from human beings, and not just in your marriage. He said, \u201cIt\u2019s like you\u2019re on a high dive, and the kids and I are in the pool. You\u2019re pacing back and forth on the high dive, and you cannot jump into the pool. We\u2019re splashing; we\u2019re having fun. And what you do instead is, you walk back down because you\u2019re afraid. You get back down, you come to the side of the pool, and you put your toe in; but that\u2019s it.\u201d \r\n\r\nThat pictured, for me, disassociation. I realized, \u201cI need counseling, because I cannot join them. I can\u2019t play with my kids; I have a hard time being a little kid with them. I\u2019m disconnected from people I love the most. I need to reconnect with who I am and with who they are, and I need help.\u201d Besides talking with him, I also had to get some help.\r\n\r\nAnn: What do you mean [when] you talk about having more counselors than you realize; there\u2019s more help than you realize? What do you mean by that?\r\n\r\nMary: Well, yes, I know there are people out there who cannot afford counseling; because that was me for so many years\/for a decade. I would do is I would read a lot of books; I would read some of those Allender books. There are a lot more out there now; a lot of great resources in the Christian space. But also The Body Keeps the Score, which is a general market book. That book changed everything.\r\n\r\nAnn: I haven\u2019t read that. Who\u2019s it by?\r\n\r\nMary: Bessel [van der] Kolk. He talks about [how] we hold trauma in our bodies. I read it, and I had a sense to it; I intellectually assented to it. \r\n\r\nAnd then, I found who that guy was, who had abused me; and I don\u2019t advise this to anybody, but on our anniversary, we went on a trauma tour. Don\u2019t ever do this on your anniversary! [Laughter] We went back to all of those places that it had happened, and I remembered everything. There\u2019s pictures of me smiling in front of the hemlock tree: \u201cJesus is so good.\u201d Patrick did it with me; it was like this awesome tour of God\u2019s awesomeness. We get to the Airbnb\u00ae, and then, I start vomiting. \r\n\r\nAnn: This is your body keeping score.\r\n\r\nMary: My body kept the score of that trauma.\r\n\r\nAnn: What do you mean when you talk about: \u201cHow God made you is how He heals you?\u201d \r\n\r\nMary: Yes, one of the ways that God has healed me is through being a writer. God uses every book to heal me. The way in which you are bent is the way in which God heals you. I paint pictures; I write books. All of those creative ways that God has made me have been part of my healing journey. \r\n\r\nExamine your life: how has God created you? He\u2019s going to probably use those pathways and your strengths to be a part of that healing journey.\r\n\r\nAnn: I think that\u2019s fascinating. Dave, I think about you, because your upbringing was traumatic. And I think about music. \r\n\r\nDave: Yes, that\u2019s what I thought.\r\n\r\nAnn: You started playing guitar when you were eight. You\u2019ve played so many things.\r\n\r\nDave: I wonder if it was an escape.\r\n\r\nAnn: But also, that God has healed you through it, in a way, too. It was a release.\r\n\r\nDave: Yes, who would think God heals through The Beatles\u2014[Laughter]\r\n\r\nMary: \u2014but He does! \r\n\r\nDave: He sort of did, you know?\r\n\r\nAnn: But I think it\u2019s because you\u2019re an artist as well. \r\n\r\nFor listeners to think through: \u201cWhat are your gifts? What are your passions? What are the things that you do, that when you do it, you feel, \u2018Aww! That fills me up\u2019?\u201d That\u2019s part of the way God is healing you.\r\n\r\nDave: In some ways, I think God\u2014you\u2019ve already said it\u2014heals you through talking about it.\r\n\r\nAnn: Me, too.\r\n\r\nDave: As public speakers, as communicators, doing what we\u2019re doing right now, talking about it\u2014I think this conversation is going to help some men and women have conversations they\u2019ve never had. \r\n\r\nMary: Yes.\r\n\r\nDave: As I sit here, thinking of two women who walked into their marriage with sexual abuse, whether your husband at the time knew it or even understood the depth of it, what would you change? Is there anything, if you look back and if you could do that again, you would do differently? Especially thinking of a woman who\u2019s walking into a marriage right now, who\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019ve got their story. Help me!\u201d\r\n\r\nMary: I would think, if we could have had the economics to do it\u2014and again, we didn\u2019t; so I can\u2019t change it\u2014but to go to counseling together and have a trauma-informed counselor be able to educate both of us about trauma and how it\u2019s going to manifest in our marriage and to help my husband understand that this is a deep wound and help me understand\u2014because I was like you: \u201cOh, it\u2019s all healed!\u201d A heads up would have been so helpful.\r\n\r\nThat\u2019s what we\u2019re doing today. We\u2019re giving you a heads up of: \u201cIt does matter. It doesn\u2019t work to stuff it. It\u2019s like a beach ball\u2014you can hold it down for a long period of time under water, but it will, eventually, pop up; because there\u2019s air in it. The air is the story. You have to let the story out (let the air out). But in other capacities, you asked: \u201cHow else can I heal?\u201d They can read books; they can talk to friends; they can explore their gifts; they can go to counseling. There are a lot of different ways. God is super creative, and He can use really creative ways to heal us.\r\n\r\nAnn: I would have said the same thing, and I would have said to myself\u2014I say this, now, to younger women: \r\n\r\nJust know that God is gracious in His timing of healing. He could have healed me all at once. Wouldn\u2019t that be great?! if all of it was healed: \u201cOh, you\u2019re done! You\u2019re healed. You\u2019re great.\u201d \r\n\r\nBut He\u2019s gracious; and sometimes, it takes time. It\u2019s like I always refer it to as an infection going on in your body. He\u2019s so gracious to remove the scab; and then, some of the infection will come out. I\u2019m always mad, like, \u201cWait a minute! I thought that was all healed,\u201d and then, something else will come up where I\u2019m triggered or a response will happen, and I realize, \u201cOh, He\u2019s so gracious! I couldn\u2019t receive all the healing at once; it was too traumatic. So now, I\u2019m going to go back into it again and allow Him to heal some more.\u201d \r\n\r\nI wish it were all at once\u2014and for some people, I\u2019m sure it could be; but I think He\u2019s gracious for even us, Dave, in our marriage. We\u2019ve had to be really intimate and know each other so well, and that doesn\u2019t come all at once either. It takes time; it takes Jesus.\r\n\r\nMary, one of the things I have appreciated about you is your love for God\u2019s Word and how that\u2014His Word\u2014has healed you. That\u2019s a passion for you. Will you just talk about that the last few minutes? Why is that important? \r\n\r\nMary: Well, what I love about the Bible is, first of all, we have to remember when it is prescriptive versus descriptive. You do see sexual assault in the Bible, but it is not prescriptive: \u201cYou should go sexually assault people.\u201d It\u2019s descriptive. Every time in the Bible, when you see sexual assault, violence follows or war follows, [thus giving] that understanding of: \u201cGod really hates this!\u201d and \u201cReally bad things are a result of sexual violence; it begets physical violence.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: I\u2019ve never thought of that, like Dinah [Genesis 34].\r\n\r\nMary: Yes! If you think back to all those\u2014Bathsheba is the same, it\u2019s amazing how\u2014Tamar, too [2 Samuel 13]\u2014So, reading the Bible, and finding myself in it, and realizing that God is for the quartet of the vulnerable in the Old Testament, and I felt so much like part of that. \r\n\r\nThe other thing that I found in the Bible was this idea of what you said: \u201cI am broken; I am wounded; I am weak; but those are the places where Jesus shines the best.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nMary: When we have it all together, we\u2019re doing this [arm out]. We\u2019re stiff-arming God. But when we know we\u2019re a mess, we have this dance floor for Jesus to dance His best steps.\r\n\r\nAnn: Yes.\r\n\r\nMary: You know, it\u2019s so amazing.\r\n\r\nDave: What would you two say to the husbands? I\u2019ve sort of said it, but coming from one of you or both of you to a husband who is married to a woman, and he\u2019s just realized\u2014maybe, he knew it, but now, he\u2019s realizing: \u201cOh, this is a real deal in our marriage. She has been abused.\u201d Maybe, he has, but I\u2019m thinking he\u2019s discovered she has [been affected by abuse], like when I realized. Again, he thinks, \u201cOkay,\u201d\u2014probably like me\u2014\u201cit\u2019s not a big deal.\u201d \r\n\r\nNo, it\u2019s a really big deal. It\u2019s bigger than you have any idea of. I\u2019ve already said that. What would you, as a wife and as a woman, say to this man? What does he need to know or do?\r\n\r\nMary: I would just go back to: \u201cLove her as Christ loves the church.\u201d [Ephesians 5:25] That means he sacrifices for her, which means he sacrifices sex, he sacrifices convenience, he sacrifices needs, and he sacrifices his own way of understanding it and thinking that he\u2019s got it all figured out. That means you ask questions, and you find out: \u201cWhy does this hurt you? Why are you struggling?\u201d And not in an accusatory way, but: \u201cI want to understand you, because if I\u2019m Christ to the church\u2014if I\u2019m serving and loving\u2014I have to understand who I am serving and loving.\u201d\r\n\r\nAnd then, also, stop comparing yourself to ideal other couples.\r\n\r\nAnn: That\u2019s good.\r\n\r\nMary: Because nobody knows what is going on behind closed doors; but I think we think we do: \u201cOh, I\u2019m not as cool as them.\u201d And we feel bad. No! This is your marriage. These are two people God has brought together. You need to both, wife and husband, know each other in order to sacrifice and serve the other.\r\n\r\nAnn: I would say that same thing. The Scripture that came to my mind was\u2014in Scripture, when it refers to sexual intimacy, many times it\u2019ll say, \u201cAnd he knew her.\u201d\r\n\r\nDave: Yada. \r\n\r\nAnn: That\u2019s what I would say to the husband: \u201cKnow her.\u201d It\u2019s not just an act when you know all of her. It\u2019s the intimacy of every part of us. Take your time; know all parts of your wife, because the outcome will be better than you ever expected, because it\u2019s more than just a physical act. \r\n\r\nWill you pray? There are so many people who are being affected by this. Will you pray for them?\r\n\r\nMary: Yes.\r\n\r\nJesus, we thank You for those listening today, who may have a fractured story. We know that You are the Mender of all those stories. And Lord, I pray that You would place a safe person in their life to be able to share that story with. I pray that You will use their bent to heal them. I pray that You would send healers into their lives. \r\n\r\nAnd I pray for marriages. I pray, Lord, that there would be enough safety in marriages that people wouldn\u2019t feel afraid to share. And I pray for a revolution, Lord, and a revelation; a revolution of sacrifice and love for each other and a revelation of who You are and how You heal. \r\n\r\nI know it\u2019s a huge conundrum, Lord. I know that people, who have been abused, ask the question: \u201cWhere were You?\u201d So, Lord, sometimes we can\u2019t honestly answer that, this side of heaven; but You tenderly hold our stories. I thank You for doing that. \r\n\r\nAnd I pray supernatural healing over those listening today. I know it starts with one step, but I pray it will be ten steps, and twenty steps, and a hundred steps; that this journey would be beautiful, and that they would experience You like no other way that they\u2019ve ever experienced You. We experience You when we\u2019re broken. Instead of stiff-arming You, Lord, and blaming You, we ask that You would come into those tender spaces in our marriage and in our lives to heal us.\r\n\r\nI pray this in the beautiful Name of Jesus. Amen.\r\n\r\nAnn: Amen.\r\n\r\nShelby: I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and you\u2019ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Mary DeMuth on FamilyLife Today. I have certainly asked that question: \u201cGod, where were You?\u201d I\u2019m a sexual-abuse survivor myself, and I was just a little kid when it happened to me. I really appreciate her insight today (that Mary gave), and honestly, just her willingness to be vulnerable and honest, because it truly does help with the healing process as we listen to all of that. \r\n\r\nMary has written a book called Not Marked: Finding Hope &amp;amp; Healing After Sexual Abuse. This book is, obviously, deeply personal for her, but it also gives some added insight from her husband, Patrick, about how a spouse can really support their wife or husband who has gone through something traumatic like this. You can get your copy of Mary\u2019s book, Not Marked, by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, and you can find it in the show notes. Or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\r\n\r\nYou know, one of the things I love about FamilyLife\u00ae, and being a part of this ministry, is that we\u2019re not afraid to talk about topics like we heard today. We want to help and be part of healing in people\u2019s lives. We want to offer hope; we want to reach out to them and help marriages and families move toward Jesus and become a part of the solution in other people\u2019s lives to help them see Jesus. \r\n\r\nAnd that\u2019s why I\u2019m excited for the month of May, because any donation given will be matched, dollar-for-dollar, up to $550,000. That means when you give a monthly gift of $100, it actually becomes $200 a month. That\u2019s the uniqueness of the month of May. So, I encourage you to head online to FamilyLifeToday.com; click on the \u201cDonate Now\u201d button at the top of the page, and it will walk you through how to become a partner with us to help reach more marriages and families. Or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \r\n\r\nNow, coming up next week, join us as award-winning musician, Jamie Grace, sits down with the Wilsons to talk about mental health and the struggles she\u2019s been through with Tourette\u2019s [Syndrome], ADHD, and anxiety. That\u2019s coming up next week. We hope you\u2019ll join us. \r\n\r\nOn behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \r\n\r\nFamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru\u00ae Ministry. \r\n\r\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\r\n\r\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?  Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. 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