{"id":280250,"date":"2024-06-11T09:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-06-11T13:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/helping-kids-navigate-intense-emotions-sissy-goff-david-thomas\/"},"modified":"2025-04-17T10:51:06","modified_gmt":"2025-04-17T14:51:06","slug":"helping-kids-navigate-intense-emotions-sissy-goff-david-thomas","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/helping-kids-navigate-intense-emotions-sissy-goff-david-thomas\/","title":{"rendered":"Helping Kids Navigate Intense Emotions: Sissy Goff &#038; David Thomas"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Could your behavior be affecting your children&#8217;s emotions? Sissy Goff and David Thomas explore how parental strategies might contribute to child anxiety.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Could your behavior be affecting your children&#8217;s emotions? Sissy Goff and David Thomas explore how parental strategies might contribute to child anxiety.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280865,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/9ce69943-e997-4257-8b52-b17f0159b8f5\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:13","filesize":"24.04M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-06-11 09:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2837,2873,2838,2835,2836,2806,2855,2870,2881],"tags":[2105],"podcast_series":[8765],"cwp_profile":[9072,9158],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-280250","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-fathers","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","category-mothers","category-raising-boys","category-raising-girls","category-spiritual-development","category-teens","category-tweens","category-young-children","tag-child-anxiety","podcast_series-helping-kids-with-intense-emotions-sissy-goff-david-thomas","cwp_profile-david-thomas","cwp_profile-sissy-goff","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/280250\/helping-kids-navigate-intense-emotions-sissy-goff-david-thomas","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/280250\/helping-kids-navigate-intense-emotions-sissy-goff-david-thomas","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"t66Zm9dU4d\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/helping-kids-navigate-intense-emotions-sissy-goff-david-thomas\/\">Helping Kids Navigate Intense Emotions: Sissy Goff &#038; David Thomas<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/helping-kids-navigate-intense-emotions-sissy-goff-david-thomas\/embed\/#?secret=t66Zm9dU4d\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Helping Kids Navigate Intense Emotions: Sissy Goff &#038; David Thomas&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"t66Zm9dU4d\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["9ce69943-e997-4257-8b52-b17f0159b8f5"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/9ce69943-e997-4257-8b52-b17f0159b8f5\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:26:13"],"filesize":["24.04M"],"_thumbnail_id":["280865"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li>Connect with Sissy Goff &amp; David Thomas and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.raisingboysandgirls.com\/\">raisingboysandgirls.com<\/a> or listen to their <a href=\"https:\/\/www.raisingboysandgirls.com\/podcast\">podcast<\/a>. Follow them on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/pages\/Raising-Boys-and-Girls\/171644749585105?ref=hl\">Facebook<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/raisingboysandgirls\/\">Instagram<\/a> @raisingboysandgirls<\/li>\n<li>And grab Sissy\u2019s book, \"T<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/the-worry-free-parent-living-in-confidence-so-your-kids-can-too\/\">he Worry-Free Parent: Living in Confidence So Your Kids Can Too<\/a>\" in our shop.<\/li>\n<li>Want to hear Sissy Goff &amp; David Thomas in person? Catch them this year in your <a href=\"https:\/\/www.raisingboysandgirls.com\/events\">city<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Intrigued by today\u2019s episode? <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/parenting\">Think deeper about Parenting<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Listen to more episodes by <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/sissy-goff\/\">Sissy Goff<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/david-thomas\/\">David Thomas<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-06-11.pdf"],"transcript_content":["<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>Helping Kids Navigate Intense Emotions<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Sissy Goff and David Thomas<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Helping Kids with Intense Emotions (Day 2 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:June 11, 2024<\/p>\n<p>David: We think about \u201cregulate first, talk second.\u201d It reminds us [that] all discipline should happen last, because that\u2019s part of the talk part, and discipline is designed for teaching, not for punishment. If we think about it as teaching, we want kids to be able to make good connections. Well, they can\u2019t make good connections if their thinking brain is not online.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I had a bad grandparenting moment not too long ago.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You didn\u2019t know it was a bad moment when it happened.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No. I was crushed\u2014crushed. We have quite a few grandchildren. We have [numbers] six and seven on the way.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: By the way, we\u2019re telling the story to two therapists [Laughter] who can counsel us through this.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m actually sitting on their couch.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, literally, we are on their couch. They\u2019re on a couch, too, so maybe we can counsel them.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: David Thomas and Sissy Goff; we are at Daystar Counseling in Nashville, their home office, upstairs. I tell you what, this is really a beautiful space.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It sure is.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Not just for counseling, but for family and home\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014I just want to lie here and pour my guts out, don\u2019t you? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s why you\u2019re telling your little\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014that\u2019s why I\u2019m telling this story!<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Aww.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, we had a grandson, he\u2019s a preschooler\u2014they were going to have their little Christmas play, and they were going to sing. Dave and I were traveling a lot, so when I\u2019m home, I\u2019m with them quite a bit. I told him, \u201cI am so excited about this for you. This is so fun! I can\u2019t wait to see you.\u201d And then, I\u2019d see him again: \u201cAre you excited? I can\u2019t wait to see you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t think I understand the intensity that I carry. You know, every once in a while, I\u2019d see him and say, \u201cHey, it\u2019s only four more days!\u201d It got to the day of the performance, and he said to his dad, \u201cI don\u2019t want Noni to come.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Oh!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was crushed, lying on the floor crying.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Of course you were.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I felt so rejected!<\/p>\n<p>Sissy, you\u2019re such a good therapist.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I said to Dave, \u201cSee? I do this. It\u2019s my intensity. I\u2019m all excited.\u201d My heart means well, but I probably had him feeling so anxious by the time the performance came, wondering, \u201cShould I be happy? Should I be excited like Noni? Am I going to disappoint her? Am I\u2014?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I had never thought of that, actually, David, until I heard you on a podcast\u2014on the Don\u2019t Mom Alone podcast with Heather MacFadyen. When you said some of the things that can create anxiety in kids, I thought, \u201cThere it is. There it is.\u201d It wasn\u2019t necessarily a rejection of me, because I kept thinking, \u201cWhat did I do?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I realized he was feeling the pressure of that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It got built up.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I think you went and hid in the rafters somewhere.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But he wanted his other grandma to come.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Noooo.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I thought, \u201cOooohhhh.\u201d It was awful! But that was helpful for me to listen to some of the things we talked about yesterday, about well-meaning statements\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014yes\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014that we can make as parents, but that can create a little angst and anxiety in our kids or grandkids.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Okay, so counsel us. What happened there?<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Well, of course you wanted to be there, and of course, you\u2019re excited to talk to him about it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes; and I loved your statement of, \u201cI don\u2019t think I realize how much intensity I carry.\u201d The same is true about me, Ann. I don\u2019t think I\u2019m aware of how much intensity I carry.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Dave has told me. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, maybe a few times.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Which is great. I\u2019m so grateful.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: We could talk about, even, the science behind it. It\u2019s funny, because I think, even when it\u2019s positive, sometimes our intensity translates to anxiety.<\/p>\n<p>Excitement can also be that kind of intensity. There are even mirror neurons that are happening in our brains when we learn things; that we aren\u2019t just learning to tie our shoes because of mirror neurons, of watching someone else do it, or learning how to water ski, but we\u2019re also learning to be anxious when someone around us\u2014we absorb the anxiety.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s not what you meant, but\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014no.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014I think that\u2019s a great reminder\u2014Shauna Niequist has a story in her new book where she talks about [how] one of the greatest skills we can learn is to \u201cdial up and dial down\u201d intensity.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, that\u2019s so good.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Because it\u2019s so important. It\u2019s a lot of your giftedness.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: It\u2019s why you make us feel like a million bucks\u2014<\/p>\n<p>David: \u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014every time we\u2019re around you. I\u2019m not joking; I mean that. It\u2019s a beautiful part of who you are.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It was good for our son. He said, \u201cMom, sometimes you need to chill out!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: [Laughter] That\u2019s what he said?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But for you to say, \u201cTurn it down\u201d\u2014it\u2019s good for us, as parents, to know, \u201cWhen do I chill it down, and when do I turn it up?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What do you think, David? How do you do that?<\/p>\n<p>David: It reminds me of the rich conversation we shared about the importance of doing our own work and being open to those things that we may not see as clearly. I want you to hear me say, too, parent to parent, \u201cI\u2019m with you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I had a conversation with my daughter just this Christmas break, who is in her twenties, to say, \u201cI hope to goodness you will talk in counseling about what it was like to deal with my intensity growing up.\u201d I\u2019m a reformer. I\u2019m a perfectionist. I walk in every room, and I see what\u2019s wrong first and not what is right. There is no way that did not spill out onto my children all throughout their growing up.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>David: And that they felt that, experienced that, absorbed that, and the intensity that comes with that. I love your transparency in telling that story. I\u2019m right there with you. It\u2019s that long game of, \u201cHow can I pay more attention to that so that I\u2019m not living out of blind spots?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>David: And I\u2019m aware and figuring out practices. For me, as a reformer, I figured out with my boys, all throughout their adolescence\u2014I have twin boys. They shared a room. Can you even imagine what that room looked like and smelled like with two teenage boys who played a lot of sports? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>I would walk in their room and immediately see dirty clothes over there, beds that aren\u2019t made over there, and it would be, sometimes, the first thing that I would call out. I developed a practice of saying to my wife, \u201cI\u2019m going to stop going in their room so much. It\u2019s not helping me. I think it\u2019s harming the relationship. I don\u2019t want our relationship to be defined so much by [me] saying, \u2018Hey guys, bring the dirty clothes downstairs,\u2019 or \u2018Hey, that stack of clean clothes that your mom brought up is about to touch the ceiling.\u2019 I just don\u2019t want to keep talking about those things, because I love them so much, and I don\u2019t want our relationship to be defined around my intensity, around seeing, noticing, and sometimes calling out those things.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What if you're the parent, and you don\u2019t see it, and your spouse does? You just said that you saw it. I\u2019m not talking about Ann; I\u2019m just talking about any parent that is not able to see it or is unwilling and the spouse does.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, yes. How do you guys coach him along?<\/p>\n<p>David: I will say sometimes to parents, for one\u2014going back to\u2014I loved the story that you all shared, when we talked before, of being in different places with your kids and recognizing those differences and figuring out: \u201cHow could we meet in the middle more?\u201d Between \u201cI\u2019m not going to pay enough attention,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m going to pay too much attention.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: In these moments, they don\u2019t just need to hear from one of us; they need to hear from both of us. When we talked about escape and avoidance last time as it relates to anxiety\u2014I talk sometimes to parents about [how] I think the opposite of that is the equation of support and challenge. I think, as people, we instinctively lean more toward one or the other.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: There are people who think, \u201cI\u2019m really good at challenge. I can help you set some goals. I\u2019m not always so good at support and just sitting in it.\u201d And I think if that\u2019s true for two parents in different places, how could the parent who\u2019s really good at challenge learn to listen more and listen longer?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>David: I had a mom who told me, \u201cI\u2019m so good at challenge that I have to set a timer when I sit on my son\u2019s bed for three minutes that I just don\u2019t talk, I just listen. Otherwise, I\u2019ll immediately\u2014\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s just wise!<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes, it is wise.<\/p>\n<p>David: Isn\u2019t that great? That\u2019s a basic practice. That\u2019s how she's learning to give more support before she jumps into that instinctive challenge.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: I would add: I think I can hear anything from anyone if they believe the best about me.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oooohhh.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: If they see that I\u2019m trying hard, then they can say anything. So, maybe it is even thinking, \u201cHow can I approach my partner in this to say, \u2018Hey, I can see you\u2019re trying and you\u2019ve done such an amazing job with ______, and I was wondering if you had thought about (whatever the other thing is)?\u201d When somebody sees that about us, I think it makes us so much more open to hear and willing to listen.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: In our marriage, I got into a practice, because I\u2019m a verbal processor and words kind of just flow out, and when I talked, I usually just said what I was thinking. And that is not always great. I mean, Scripture says, \u201cThe power of life and death is in the tongue.\u201d [Proverbs 18:21]<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I got in that habit of saying (and asking God), \u201cGod, should I say this? When should I say It?\u201d and \u201cHow should I say this?\u201d if He says, \u201cYes.\u201d I think that practice with kids\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014I need the self-control to do that, because we become so reactive instead of responsive\u2014<\/p>\n<p>David and Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014when we just go there so quickly, and that\u2019s my personality; but it\u2019s hard to do that as parents.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, and I think, again, you\u2019ve said it several times: your spouse can be that buffer to help you support and challenge; both.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But if you don\u2019t have one, it\u2019s a whole different ball game. My mom was all by herself, and no one was really giving her anything, so I got whatever I got. If she hadn\u2019t processed her wounds, guess what? They\u2019re coming on to me. I know, as we said yesterday, as I became a dad, I had so many wounds that I was almost afraid to engage, because that way, I could keep my pain that I hadn\u2019t really dealt with from them; and that caused more pain, right? So, what do you say to that guy?<\/p>\n<p>David: I love the words of Fred Rogers, who once said, \u201cIf it\u2019s mentionable, it\u2019s manageable.\u201d I love those words. I think, if we were to think in the wisdom of that: \u201cIf I can just learn to say it, if I can learn to talk about it, it\u2019s manageable; but whatever I can't talk about, I can\u2019t manage.\u201d It\u2019s not manageable, it\u2019s just out there, and it gets bigger and scarier. I have found that to be incredibly true for a lot of boys, adolescent males, and adult men that I\u2019ve worked with. I think it\u2019s harder, sometimes, to mention that pain, but we can\u2019t tame it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: And can see, again, as we talked about yesterday, God\u2019s redemptive hand. And we can\u2019t see the redemption if we\u2019re not willing to talk about the harder aspects of it. There\u2019s the gospel right there.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Sissy, I just had a young mom reach out to me. She has four kids. She said, \u201cI have a four-year-old that is screaming, having these absolute fits.\u201d She\u2019s lashing out, saying things to the mom. The mom is saying, \u201cI don\u2019t even know where this came from. I don\u2019t know what to do!\u201d She [the daughter] is hiding in the closet saying, \u201cI want to die.\u201d The mom loves Jesus! And she says, \u201cI have no idea what\u2019s going on or what to do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I could feel the anxiety in the mom saying, \u201cI don't even know what\u2019s happening or what to do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You guys are facing that, probably, all the time with the stories that you hear.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I didn\u2019t know what to say to that mom. What should I have said?<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: I feel like we talk to her, probably, every day.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Do you?<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes. We hear that story all the time with young ones who can\u2019t yet verbalize: \u201cHere\u2019s where I am emotionally. Can you help?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes; so, that could be normal for them\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014yes, very normal.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014to not be able to regulate.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes, yes. And I think, in this day and time of anxiety being such an epidemic among kids, it\u2019s even more normal. My hunch would be that that girl has some anxiety; either has some anxiety or has some sensory issues or both.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: If it were a boy would your answer be different?<\/p>\n<p>David and Sissy: Not necessarily.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: What we know to be true is that all behavior from kids is communication. So, everything that\u2019s happening with them in terms of acting out is [them] trying to tell us something that we need from us in those moments. In those moments, that little girl is saying, \u201cI don\u2019t know how to get control of myself.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>What I know to do\u2014I had a girl who said, in my office this week, \u201cIt was so helpful for me when I could explode at my parents, because if I could drag them into the same intensity with me, then I had a release for my emotions.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: For that girl, she doesn\u2019t know what to do in those moments. She feels anxious because she thought she had five more minutes to watch a show, and her mom said, \u201cNo, we\u2019ve got to turn that off now.\u201d Or she thought she had a little bit more time before bed.<\/p>\n<p>I talked to another family this week who said, \u201cWe think our daughter is so entitled, because she wants to go get a treat every day after school.\u201d This mom said, \u201cWe\u2019re not going to do that as a family. We\u2019re not going to Chick-fil-A everyday.\u201d And it wasn\u2019t about Chick-fil-A. It was about how, for this little girl, routine made her feel safe.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Changing up the routine made her anxious. So, my hunch is there is something with that little girl that is moving her to her amygdala, the part of our brain that dictates fight or flight\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014yes\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014which is what happens any time we\u2019re anxious. When our amygdala has hijacked our prefrontal cortex, we can\u2019t think rationally or manage our emotions. She can\u2019t do that in that moment. So, I would encourage that mom if she was in my office:<\/p>\n<p>number one, encourage her to start to try to document when it happens. What are the circumstances around it?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Would you do that with a boy, too, David?<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: If it\u2019s transitions or unpredictability, or if it\u2019s seams in their socks\u2014the amount of girls who will only wear leggings or dresses, and won\u2019t wear jeans. [Laughter] Or if it\u2019s some kind of texture, then, really, where I would start with that child is for them to do Occupational Therapy first.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Really?<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Because they can help them regulate that sensory input; but, if we\u2019re leaning toward anxiety, or really, with any kids, I think what we want to think about is [that] we start with co-regulation: \u201cHoney, I can tell you\u2019re starting to get upset.\u201d Down on her level: \u201cI can tell you are getting frustrated right now. I want you to take three really deep breaths with me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And what if they just yell and say, \u201cNo!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: I think, at that point, you get away from them.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Because they\u2019re using you to be their coping strategy rather than trying to develop them on their own.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: So, get away from them; don\u2019t let them have that emotional release by drawing you into an argument. At four, you\u2019ve got to think about ways to do that that are safe.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right; yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: But with a lot of parents of little ones, I\u2019ll have them start to reward any positive coping strategy. So, any time they take a deep breath, they get a \u201cBrave Bead.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: They can trade the \u201cBrave Beads\u201d in for something else. Or any time they can use grounding techniques, basic things we do with kids who are anxious\u2014\u201cTell me ten things in the room that are the color blue,\u201d anything that is a positive coping strategy; going to squeeze a stress ball or jump up and down or run around the house or something to have an outlet: \u201cYou can earn a Brave Bead, and you can trade ten Brave Beads in for a page of stickers. You can trade twenty-five in for staying up fifteen minutes later. You can trade fifty in for a special date with mom or dad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Or little bitty ones, we probably need sooner tokens. Go to the dollar aisle at Target and get thirty things that they can just come get when they do something like that. But, often, kids don\u2019t have the internal motivation to use the tools we try to give them. Until they do, we need to put external motivators in place.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I like that. Let me ask you\u2014this is very practical, but I\u2019m talking to a lot of young moms these days\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Do you ever go back\u2014once they\u2019ve regulated, and they\u2019re settled down, and things are fine, do you ever go back\u2014to what they said, which was horrible? Do we ever go back to that? You\u2019re both [nodding] your heads, \u201cYes.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What does that look like?<\/p>\n<p>David: Well, I think it\u2019s the wisdom of everything Sissy has been talking about. All the focus and attention in the beginning needs to be on regulation. We talk so much about \u201cregulate first, talk second.\u201d And we tend to reverse the two.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: So, think back to what you shared on the front side of the story. What happens for so many kids\u2014and, honestly, can happen for us as parents, too; we call them dysregulated declarations. For example, \u201cI\u2019m flooded with emotions, and I\u2019m going to say this big, scary thing like, \u2018I hate everyone in this family!\u2019\u201d [Laughter] \u201c\u2018I wish I could just die.\u2019 \u2018I should never have been born!\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That freaks parents out, right there.<\/p>\n<p>David: \u201cI have no friends.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Of course, it does!<\/p>\n<p>David: Absolutely; absolutely. And in those moments, we tend to start talking first and regulating last, and we should reverse it. We say things like, \u201cWhy would you say that? You are loved. Everyone in this family\u2014,\u201d you know? And they are\u2014to everything Sissy just said, they are\u2014acting out of their amygdala. So, their thinking brain is not even online; they can\u2019t make good connections. So, we want all the focus to be on regulation first, whether they are four or fourteen or forty-four.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>David: The mistake we make, the parent version of that is: I\u2019m amped up, my kids do something, and I say, \u201cYou\u2019re grounded for life!\u201d You know? And then, I have to go back. \u201cI\u2019m selling your cell phone at the pawn shop.\u201d [Laughter] And then we have to go back.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019ve made some really good statements like that. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>David: Oh, yes! I had a dad who said recently\u2014he was telling me this story that he had asked his son to do three things, and he said, \u201cTonight, when you go to bed, I\u2019m going to set the Xbox on fire.\u201d He said, \u201cDavid, who threatens pyromania?\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s a dysregulated declaration. We shouldn\u2019t be talking at all. We should be regulating first and then going back.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What does regulation look like for the parent? Is it settle down, take three deep breaths? All the same things?<\/p>\n<p>David: Often, some of the exact same things.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: All the same things.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes, exactly.<\/p>\n<p>David: And the beauty of kids getting to see us do that!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: We talk about kids learning more from observation than information. So, if they can sit front row, and watch the adults they trust the most taking deep breaths\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You\u2019re modeling.<\/p>\n<p>David: Saying things like, \u201cI can\u2019t talk right now, because I feel a lot of big feelings on the inside.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I had a dad who said, \u201cI\u2019m going to run laps around the house, and then I\u2019ll come back, and we\u2019ll check in in five minutes.\u201d [Laughter] And I love that his son got to watch that.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>David: This sense of: \u201cI\u2019m going to regulate myself, and then we\u2019ll talk. Otherwise, I\u2019m more prone to saying things that I would later regret or have to go back and redo.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And I think, to your great question, too, if we think about \u201cregulate first, talk second,\u201d it reminds us [that] \u201call discipline should happen last.\u201d That\u2019s part of the talk part. Discipline is designed for teaching, not for punishment. If we think about it as teaching, we want kids to be able to make good connections. Well, they can\u2019t make good connections if their thinking brain is not online. So, in order for all that to happen, we\u2019ve got to regulate first.<\/p>\n<p>And to Sissy\u2019s wisdom, we\u2019ve got to practice regulation; no different than we have to practice riding a bike, swimming in a pool, shooting hoops. It\u2019s not t something we just get overnight.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, Sissy, should we go back to that daughter in the closet who said all these horrible things? Do we go back and address the things that we said? What does that sound like?<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: I love to come up with a name for the voice they have in their heads, like \u201cthe worry monster,\u201d or I had a little girl one time named Addy, and she called hers \u201cMaddy,\u201d because she would get really mad.<\/p>\n<p>To say, \u201cHey, I think that Maddy was talking instead of you,\u201d or \u201cI think that was the Worry Monster telling you that you were not going to be okay if you didn\u2019t get ten more minutes to play the game before you had to go to bed. And my hunch is you said some things you didn\u2019t mean. Tell me about that. What do you think happened?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>See if she will say, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry. I didn\u2019t mean to do that! I hate it when I do that myself.\u201d I mean, even to say, not just, \u201cYou said mean things,\u201d but \u201cYou said some big things like \u2018I don\u2019t want to be alive\u2019 or \u2018I want to hurt myself\u2019 or something like that, and I\u2019m always going to take that really seriously.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cSo, let\u2019s come up with some things you can say to me when you start to feel upset. Let\u2019s talk about where you feel it in your body first. And when you start to feel that way, I want you to tell me; then we\u2019re going to do something different, because I don\u2019t think you like it when you get to that place either.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Good.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u201cAnd if I try to take a break, and you can\u2019t get there yourself, we might do something to help you get there next time. It might be that you go run a lap around the house, or you go jump on the mini-trampoline for a few minutes, or you do something to help yourself slow down.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Those are good.<\/p>\n<p>I really think, too, that when I pull away, it gives me a chance to take a breath and to pray.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: In James, when it talks about God giving us wisdom generously [James 1:5], He does that.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And to take that breath, to self-regulate as an adult, and to pray for God\u2019s wisdom: \u201cLord, how should I deal with this? What does this look like?\u201d He hears those prayers.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, and I know you\u2019ve already said this, but probably one of the wisest things we learned to do is: \u201cDon\u2019t talk yet.\u201d Like you said, don\u2019t start with talking, because that\u2019s where you go first.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m so good at it, though. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Same thing in conflict: \u201cListen.\u201d I\u2019ve read that one of the biggest complaints of teenagers is, \u201cMy mom and dad\u2014my parents\u2014don\u2019t listen.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And we don\u2019t! I know I don't, right? You see this every single day, I\u2019m sure. Are you counseling parents as much as you are the kids?<\/p>\n<p>David: We do a lot of what we call \u201cparent consultations,\u201d where parents come in even without kids and ask great questions like, \u201cDoes this sound normal? Should I be concerned about this? What are things I could be doing?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, I would have gone to you guys! I would have said, \u201cHey! I\u2019m here again. I was here yesterday.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>David: We love that work with parents\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014we do.<\/p>\n<p>David: \u2014because we sit with so many intentional parents of kids of all ages. And the beauty of technology in this day and age is, we can do those by Zoom with parents all over the country and just have conversations around ways they want to be more intentional with the kids they love.<\/p>\n<p>And, often, to our earlier conversation, it does lead to: \u201cSounds like that might be a little bit more about you than about your kids.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: So, looking at what it might look like to be open to doing some work for themselves.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We\u2019re Dave and Ann Wilson. and you\u2019ve been listening to FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We\u2019ve been talking with Sissy Goff and David Thomas. David\u2019s written a book called Raising Emotionally Strong Boys, and you can get a copy at FamilyLifeToday.com. Sissy\u2019s written a book called The Worry-Free Parent: Living in Confidence So Your Kids Can, Too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: When you partner financially with FamilyLife to help more conversations like today\u2019s get into more homes, we want to send you a copy of her book as our thanks.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You can partner with us at FamilyLifeToday.com or by calling 800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Or you can mail us your donation at:<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife<\/p>\n<p>100 Lake Hart Drive<\/p>\n<p>Orlando, FL 32832<\/p>\n<p>Make sure to let us know you\u2019d like a copy of The Worry-Free Parent by Sissy Goff.<\/p>\n<p>Thanks for partnering with FamilyLife.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And thanks for listening. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. 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your behavior be affecting your children's emotions? Sissy Goff and David Thomas explore how parental strategies might contribute to child anxiety.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Connect with Sissy Goff &amp; David Thomas and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.raisingboysandgirls.com\/\">raisingboysandgirls.com<\/a> or listen to their <a href=\"https:\/\/www.raisingboysandgirls.com\/podcast\">podcast<\/a>. Follow them on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/pages\/Raising-Boys-and-Girls\/171644749585105?ref=hl\">Facebook<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/raisingboysandgirls\/\">Instagram<\/a> @raisingboysandgirls<\/li>\n<li>And grab Sissy\u2019s book, \"T<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/the-worry-free-parent-living-in-confidence-so-your-kids-can-too\/\">he Worry-Free Parent: Living in Confidence So Your Kids Can Too<\/a>\" in our shop.<\/li>\n<li>Want to hear Sissy Goff &amp; David Thomas in person? Catch them this year in your <a href=\"https:\/\/www.raisingboysandgirls.com\/events\">city<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Intrigued by today\u2019s episode? <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/parenting\">Think deeper about Parenting<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Listen to more episodes by <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/sissy-goff\/\">Sissy Goff<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/david-thomas\/\">David Thomas<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-06-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>Helping Kids Navigate Intense Emotions<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Sissy Goff and David Thomas<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Helping Kids with Intense Emotions (Day 2 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:June 11, 2024<\/p>\n<p>David: We think about \u201cregulate first, talk second.\u201d It reminds us [that] all discipline should happen last, because that\u2019s part of the talk part, and discipline is designed for teaching, not for punishment. If we think about it as teaching, we want kids to be able to make good connections. Well, they can\u2019t make good connections if their thinking brain is not online.<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I had a bad grandparenting moment not too long ago.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You didn\u2019t know it was a bad moment when it happened.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No. I was crushed\u2014crushed. We have quite a few grandchildren. We have [numbers] six and seven on the way.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: By the way, we\u2019re telling the story to two therapists [Laughter] who can counsel us through this.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m actually sitting on their couch.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, literally, we are on their couch. They\u2019re on a couch, too, so maybe we can counsel them.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: No.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: David Thomas and Sissy Goff; we are at Daystar Counseling in Nashville, their home office, upstairs. I tell you what, this is really a beautiful space.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It sure is.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Not just for counseling, but for family and home\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014I just want to lie here and pour my guts out, don\u2019t you? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s why you\u2019re telling your little\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014that\u2019s why I\u2019m telling this story!<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Aww.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, we had a grandson, he\u2019s a preschooler\u2014they were going to have their little Christmas play, and they were going to sing. Dave and I were traveling a lot, so when I\u2019m home, I\u2019m with them quite a bit. I told him, \u201cI am so excited about this for you. This is so fun! I can\u2019t wait to see you.\u201d And then, I\u2019d see him again: \u201cAre you excited? I can\u2019t wait to see you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t think I understand the intensity that I carry. You know, every once in a while, I\u2019d see him and say, \u201cHey, it\u2019s only four more days!\u201d It got to the day of the performance, and he said to his dad, \u201cI don\u2019t want Noni to come.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Oh!<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I was crushed, lying on the floor crying.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Of course you were.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I felt so rejected!<\/p>\n<p>Sissy, you\u2019re such a good therapist.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I said to Dave, \u201cSee? I do this. It\u2019s my intensity. I\u2019m all excited.\u201d My heart means well, but I probably had him feeling so anxious by the time the performance came, wondering, \u201cShould I be happy? Should I be excited like Noni? Am I going to disappoint her? Am I\u2014?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I had never thought of that, actually, David, until I heard you on a podcast\u2014on the Don\u2019t Mom Alone podcast with Heather MacFadyen. When you said some of the things that can create anxiety in kids, I thought, \u201cThere it is. There it is.\u201d It wasn\u2019t necessarily a rejection of me, because I kept thinking, \u201cWhat did I do?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I realized he was feeling the pressure of that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It got built up.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I think you went and hid in the rafters somewhere.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But he wanted his other grandma to come.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Noooo.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I thought, \u201cOooohhhh.\u201d It was awful! But that was helpful for me to listen to some of the things we talked about yesterday, about well-meaning statements\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014yes\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014that we can make as parents, but that can create a little angst and anxiety in our kids or grandkids.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Okay, so counsel us. What happened there?<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Well, of course you wanted to be there, and of course, you\u2019re excited to talk to him about it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes; and I loved your statement of, \u201cI don\u2019t think I realize how much intensity I carry.\u201d The same is true about me, Ann. I don\u2019t think I\u2019m aware of how much intensity I carry.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Dave has told me. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Oh, maybe a few times.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Which is great. I\u2019m so grateful.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: We could talk about, even, the science behind it. It\u2019s funny, because I think, even when it\u2019s positive, sometimes our intensity translates to anxiety.<\/p>\n<p>Excitement can also be that kind of intensity. There are even mirror neurons that are happening in our brains when we learn things; that we aren\u2019t just learning to tie our shoes because of mirror neurons, of watching someone else do it, or learning how to water ski, but we\u2019re also learning to be anxious when someone around us\u2014we absorb the anxiety.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s not what you meant, but\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014no.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014I think that\u2019s a great reminder\u2014Shauna Niequist has a story in her new book where she talks about [how] one of the greatest skills we can learn is to \u201cdial up and dial down\u201d intensity.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, that\u2019s so good.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Because it\u2019s so important. It\u2019s a lot of your giftedness.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: It\u2019s why you make us feel like a million bucks\u2014<\/p>\n<p>David: \u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014every time we\u2019re around you. I\u2019m not joking; I mean that. It\u2019s a beautiful part of who you are.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: It was good for our son. He said, \u201cMom, sometimes you need to chill out!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: [Laughter] That\u2019s what he said?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: But for you to say, \u201cTurn it down\u201d\u2014it\u2019s good for us, as parents, to know, \u201cWhen do I chill it down, and when do I turn it up?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What do you think, David? How do you do that?<\/p>\n<p>David: It reminds me of the rich conversation we shared about the importance of doing our own work and being open to those things that we may not see as clearly. I want you to hear me say, too, parent to parent, \u201cI\u2019m with you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I had a conversation with my daughter just this Christmas break, who is in her twenties, to say, \u201cI hope to goodness you will talk in counseling about what it was like to deal with my intensity growing up.\u201d I\u2019m a reformer. I\u2019m a perfectionist. I walk in every room, and I see what\u2019s wrong first and not what is right. There is no way that did not spill out onto my children all throughout their growing up.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>David: And that they felt that, experienced that, absorbed that, and the intensity that comes with that. I love your transparency in telling that story. I\u2019m right there with you. It\u2019s that long game of, \u201cHow can I pay more attention to that so that I\u2019m not living out of blind spots?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>David: And I\u2019m aware and figuring out practices. For me, as a reformer, I figured out with my boys, all throughout their adolescence\u2014I have twin boys. They shared a room. Can you even imagine what that room looked like and smelled like with two teenage boys who played a lot of sports? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>I would walk in their room and immediately see dirty clothes over there, beds that aren\u2019t made over there, and it would be, sometimes, the first thing that I would call out. I developed a practice of saying to my wife, \u201cI\u2019m going to stop going in their room so much. It\u2019s not helping me. I think it\u2019s harming the relationship. I don\u2019t want our relationship to be defined so much by [me] saying, \u2018Hey guys, bring the dirty clothes downstairs,\u2019 or \u2018Hey, that stack of clean clothes that your mom brought up is about to touch the ceiling.\u2019 I just don\u2019t want to keep talking about those things, because I love them so much, and I don\u2019t want our relationship to be defined around my intensity, around seeing, noticing, and sometimes calling out those things.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What if you're the parent, and you don\u2019t see it, and your spouse does? You just said that you saw it. I\u2019m not talking about Ann; I\u2019m just talking about any parent that is not able to see it or is unwilling and the spouse does.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, yes. How do you guys coach him along?<\/p>\n<p>David: I will say sometimes to parents, for one\u2014going back to\u2014I loved the story that you all shared, when we talked before, of being in different places with your kids and recognizing those differences and figuring out: \u201cHow could we meet in the middle more?\u201d Between \u201cI\u2019m not going to pay enough attention,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m going to pay too much attention.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: In these moments, they don\u2019t just need to hear from one of us; they need to hear from both of us. When we talked about escape and avoidance last time as it relates to anxiety\u2014I talk sometimes to parents about [how] I think the opposite of that is the equation of support and challenge. I think, as people, we instinctively lean more toward one or the other.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: There are people who think, \u201cI\u2019m really good at challenge. I can help you set some goals. I\u2019m not always so good at support and just sitting in it.\u201d And I think if that\u2019s true for two parents in different places, how could the parent who\u2019s really good at challenge learn to listen more and listen longer?<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>David: I had a mom who told me, \u201cI\u2019m so good at challenge that I have to set a timer when I sit on my son\u2019s bed for three minutes that I just don\u2019t talk, I just listen. Otherwise, I\u2019ll immediately\u2014\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s just wise!<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes, it is wise.<\/p>\n<p>David: Isn\u2019t that great? That\u2019s a basic practice. That\u2019s how she's learning to give more support before she jumps into that instinctive challenge.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: I would add: I think I can hear anything from anyone if they believe the best about me.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oooohhh.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: If they see that I\u2019m trying hard, then they can say anything. So, maybe it is even thinking, \u201cHow can I approach my partner in this to say, \u2018Hey, I can see you\u2019re trying and you\u2019ve done such an amazing job with ______, and I was wondering if you had thought about (whatever the other thing is)?\u201d When somebody sees that about us, I think it makes us so much more open to hear and willing to listen.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: In our marriage, I got into a practice, because I\u2019m a verbal processor and words kind of just flow out, and when I talked, I usually just said what I was thinking. And that is not always great. I mean, Scripture says, \u201cThe power of life and death is in the tongue.\u201d [Proverbs 18:21]<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I got in that habit of saying (and asking God), \u201cGod, should I say this? When should I say It?\u201d and \u201cHow should I say this?\u201d if He says, \u201cYes.\u201d I think that practice with kids\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014I need the self-control to do that, because we become so reactive instead of responsive\u2014<\/p>\n<p>David and Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014when we just go there so quickly, and that\u2019s my personality; but it\u2019s hard to do that as parents.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, and I think, again, you\u2019ve said it several times: your spouse can be that buffer to help you support and challenge; both.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But if you don\u2019t have one, it\u2019s a whole different ball game. My mom was all by herself, and no one was really giving her anything, so I got whatever I got. If she hadn\u2019t processed her wounds, guess what? They\u2019re coming on to me. I know, as we said yesterday, as I became a dad, I had so many wounds that I was almost afraid to engage, because that way, I could keep my pain that I hadn\u2019t really dealt with from them; and that caused more pain, right? So, what do you say to that guy?<\/p>\n<p>David: I love the words of Fred Rogers, who once said, \u201cIf it\u2019s mentionable, it\u2019s manageable.\u201d I love those words. I think, if we were to think in the wisdom of that: \u201cIf I can just learn to say it, if I can learn to talk about it, it\u2019s manageable; but whatever I can't talk about, I can\u2019t manage.\u201d It\u2019s not manageable, it\u2019s just out there, and it gets bigger and scarier. I have found that to be incredibly true for a lot of boys, adolescent males, and adult men that I\u2019ve worked with. I think it\u2019s harder, sometimes, to mention that pain, but we can\u2019t tame it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: And can see, again, as we talked about yesterday, God\u2019s redemptive hand. And we can\u2019t see the redemption if we\u2019re not willing to talk about the harder aspects of it. There\u2019s the gospel right there.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Sissy, I just had a young mom reach out to me. She has four kids. She said, \u201cI have a four-year-old that is screaming, having these absolute fits.\u201d She\u2019s lashing out, saying things to the mom. The mom is saying, \u201cI don\u2019t even know where this came from. I don\u2019t know what to do!\u201d She [the daughter] is hiding in the closet saying, \u201cI want to die.\u201d The mom loves Jesus! And she says, \u201cI have no idea what\u2019s going on or what to do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I could feel the anxiety in the mom saying, \u201cI don't even know what\u2019s happening or what to do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You guys are facing that, probably, all the time with the stories that you hear.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I didn\u2019t know what to say to that mom. What should I have said?<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: I feel like we talk to her, probably, every day.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Do you?<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes. We hear that story all the time with young ones who can\u2019t yet verbalize: \u201cHere\u2019s where I am emotionally. Can you help?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes; so, that could be normal for them\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014yes, very normal.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014to not be able to regulate.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes, yes. And I think, in this day and time of anxiety being such an epidemic among kids, it\u2019s even more normal. My hunch would be that that girl has some anxiety; either has some anxiety or has some sensory issues or both.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: If it were a boy would your answer be different?<\/p>\n<p>David and Sissy: Not necessarily.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: What we know to be true is that all behavior from kids is communication. So, everything that\u2019s happening with them in terms of acting out is [them] trying to tell us something that we need from us in those moments. In those moments, that little girl is saying, \u201cI don\u2019t know how to get control of myself.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>What I know to do\u2014I had a girl who said, in my office this week, \u201cIt was so helpful for me when I could explode at my parents, because if I could drag them into the same intensity with me, then I had a release for my emotions.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: For that girl, she doesn\u2019t know what to do in those moments. She feels anxious because she thought she had five more minutes to watch a show, and her mom said, \u201cNo, we\u2019ve got to turn that off now.\u201d Or she thought she had a little bit more time before bed.<\/p>\n<p>I talked to another family this week who said, \u201cWe think our daughter is so entitled, because she wants to go get a treat every day after school.\u201d This mom said, \u201cWe\u2019re not going to do that as a family. We\u2019re not going to Chick-fil-A everyday.\u201d And it wasn\u2019t about Chick-fil-A. It was about how, for this little girl, routine made her feel safe.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Changing up the routine made her anxious. So, my hunch is there is something with that little girl that is moving her to her amygdala, the part of our brain that dictates fight or flight\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014yes\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014which is what happens any time we\u2019re anxious. When our amygdala has hijacked our prefrontal cortex, we can\u2019t think rationally or manage our emotions. She can\u2019t do that in that moment. So, I would encourage that mom if she was in my office:<\/p>\n<p>number one, encourage her to start to try to document when it happens. What are the circumstances around it?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Would you do that with a boy, too, David?<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: If it\u2019s transitions or unpredictability, or if it\u2019s seams in their socks\u2014the amount of girls who will only wear leggings or dresses, and won\u2019t wear jeans. [Laughter] Or if it\u2019s some kind of texture, then, really, where I would start with that child is for them to do Occupational Therapy first.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Really?<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Because they can help them regulate that sensory input; but, if we\u2019re leaning toward anxiety, or really, with any kids, I think what we want to think about is [that] we start with co-regulation: \u201cHoney, I can tell you\u2019re starting to get upset.\u201d Down on her level: \u201cI can tell you are getting frustrated right now. I want you to take three really deep breaths with me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And what if they just yell and say, \u201cNo!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: I think, at that point, you get away from them.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Because they\u2019re using you to be their coping strategy rather than trying to develop them on their own.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: So, get away from them; don\u2019t let them have that emotional release by drawing you into an argument. At four, you\u2019ve got to think about ways to do that that are safe.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right; yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: But with a lot of parents of little ones, I\u2019ll have them start to reward any positive coping strategy. So, any time they take a deep breath, they get a \u201cBrave Bead.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: They can trade the \u201cBrave Beads\u201d in for something else. Or any time they can use grounding techniques, basic things we do with kids who are anxious\u2014\u201cTell me ten things in the room that are the color blue,\u201d anything that is a positive coping strategy; going to squeeze a stress ball or jump up and down or run around the house or something to have an outlet: \u201cYou can earn a Brave Bead, and you can trade ten Brave Beads in for a page of stickers. You can trade twenty-five in for staying up fifteen minutes later. You can trade fifty in for a special date with mom or dad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Or little bitty ones, we probably need sooner tokens. Go to the dollar aisle at Target and get thirty things that they can just come get when they do something like that. But, often, kids don\u2019t have the internal motivation to use the tools we try to give them. Until they do, we need to put external motivators in place.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I like that. Let me ask you\u2014this is very practical, but I\u2019m talking to a lot of young moms these days\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Do you ever go back\u2014once they\u2019ve regulated, and they\u2019re settled down, and things are fine, do you ever go back\u2014to what they said, which was horrible? Do we ever go back to that? You\u2019re both [nodding] your heads, \u201cYes.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: What does that look like?<\/p>\n<p>David: Well, I think it\u2019s the wisdom of everything Sissy has been talking about. All the focus and attention in the beginning needs to be on regulation. We talk so much about \u201cregulate first, talk second.\u201d And we tend to reverse the two.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: So, think back to what you shared on the front side of the story. What happens for so many kids\u2014and, honestly, can happen for us as parents, too; we call them dysregulated declarations. For example, \u201cI\u2019m flooded with emotions, and I\u2019m going to say this big, scary thing like, \u2018I hate everyone in this family!\u2019\u201d [Laughter] \u201c\u2018I wish I could just die.\u2019 \u2018I should never have been born!\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That freaks parents out, right there.<\/p>\n<p>David: \u201cI have no friends.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Of course, it does!<\/p>\n<p>David: Absolutely; absolutely. And in those moments, we tend to start talking first and regulating last, and we should reverse it. We say things like, \u201cWhy would you say that? You are loved. Everyone in this family\u2014,\u201d you know? And they are\u2014to everything Sissy just said, they are\u2014acting out of their amygdala. So, their thinking brain is not even online; they can\u2019t make good connections. So, we want all the focus to be on regulation first, whether they are four or fourteen or forty-four.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>David: The mistake we make, the parent version of that is: I\u2019m amped up, my kids do something, and I say, \u201cYou\u2019re grounded for life!\u201d You know? And then, I have to go back. \u201cI\u2019m selling your cell phone at the pawn shop.\u201d [Laughter] And then we have to go back.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019ve made some really good statements like that. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>David: Oh, yes! I had a dad who said recently\u2014he was telling me this story that he had asked his son to do three things, and he said, \u201cTonight, when you go to bed, I\u2019m going to set the Xbox on fire.\u201d He said, \u201cDavid, who threatens pyromania?\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s a dysregulated declaration. We shouldn\u2019t be talking at all. We should be regulating first and then going back.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: What does regulation look like for the parent? Is it settle down, take three deep breaths? All the same things?<\/p>\n<p>David: Often, some of the exact same things.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: All the same things.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes, exactly.<\/p>\n<p>David: And the beauty of kids getting to see us do that!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: We talk about kids learning more from observation than information. So, if they can sit front row, and watch the adults they trust the most taking deep breaths\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You\u2019re modeling.<\/p>\n<p>David: Saying things like, \u201cI can\u2019t talk right now, because I feel a lot of big feelings on the inside.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I had a dad who said, \u201cI\u2019m going to run laps around the house, and then I\u2019ll come back, and we\u2019ll check in in five minutes.\u201d [Laughter] And I love that his son got to watch that.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>David: This sense of: \u201cI\u2019m going to regulate myself, and then we\u2019ll talk. Otherwise, I\u2019m more prone to saying things that I would later regret or have to go back and redo.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And I think, to your great question, too, if we think about \u201cregulate first, talk second,\u201d it reminds us [that] \u201call discipline should happen last.\u201d That\u2019s part of the talk part. Discipline is designed for teaching, not for punishment. If we think about it as teaching, we want kids to be able to make good connections. Well, they can\u2019t make good connections if their thinking brain is not online. So, in order for all that to happen, we\u2019ve got to regulate first.<\/p>\n<p>And to Sissy\u2019s wisdom, we\u2019ve got to practice regulation; no different than we have to practice riding a bike, swimming in a pool, shooting hoops. It\u2019s not t something we just get overnight.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, Sissy, should we go back to that daughter in the closet who said all these horrible things? Do we go back and address the things that we said? What does that sound like?<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: I love to come up with a name for the voice they have in their heads, like \u201cthe worry monster,\u201d or I had a little girl one time named Addy, and she called hers \u201cMaddy,\u201d because she would get really mad.<\/p>\n<p>To say, \u201cHey, I think that Maddy was talking instead of you,\u201d or \u201cI think that was the Worry Monster telling you that you were not going to be okay if you didn\u2019t get ten more minutes to play the game before you had to go to bed. And my hunch is you said some things you didn\u2019t mean. Tell me about that. What do you think happened?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>See if she will say, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry. I didn\u2019t mean to do that! I hate it when I do that myself.\u201d I mean, even to say, not just, \u201cYou said mean things,\u201d but \u201cYou said some big things like \u2018I don\u2019t want to be alive\u2019 or \u2018I want to hurt myself\u2019 or something like that, and I\u2019m always going to take that really seriously.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cSo, let\u2019s come up with some things you can say to me when you start to feel upset. Let\u2019s talk about where you feel it in your body first. And when you start to feel that way, I want you to tell me; then we\u2019re going to do something different, because I don\u2019t think you like it when you get to that place either.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Good.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u201cAnd if I try to take a break, and you can\u2019t get there yourself, we might do something to help you get there next time. It might be that you go run a lap around the house, or you go jump on the mini-trampoline for a few minutes, or you do something to help yourself slow down.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Those are good.<\/p>\n<p>I really think, too, that when I pull away, it gives me a chance to take a breath and to pray.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: In James, when it talks about God giving us wisdom generously [James 1:5], He does that.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And to take that breath, to self-regulate as an adult, and to pray for God\u2019s wisdom: \u201cLord, how should I deal with this? What does this look like?\u201d He hears those prayers.<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, and I know you\u2019ve already said this, but probably one of the wisest things we learned to do is: \u201cDon\u2019t talk yet.\u201d Like you said, don\u2019t start with talking, because that\u2019s where you go first.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: I\u2019m so good at it, though. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Same thing in conflict: \u201cListen.\u201d I\u2019ve read that one of the biggest complaints of teenagers is, \u201cMy mom and dad\u2014my parents\u2014don\u2019t listen.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And we don\u2019t! I know I don't, right? You see this every single day, I\u2019m sure. Are you counseling parents as much as you are the kids?<\/p>\n<p>David: We do a lot of what we call \u201cparent consultations,\u201d where parents come in even without kids and ask great questions like, \u201cDoes this sound normal? Should I be concerned about this? What are things I could be doing?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Oh, I would have gone to you guys! I would have said, \u201cHey! I\u2019m here again. I was here yesterday.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>David: We love that work with parents\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Sissy: \u2014we do.<\/p>\n<p>David: \u2014because we sit with so many intentional parents of kids of all ages. And the beauty of technology in this day and age is, we can do those by Zoom with parents all over the country and just have conversations around ways they want to be more intentional with the kids they love.<\/p>\n<p>And, often, to our earlier conversation, it does lead to: \u201cSounds like that might be a little bit more about you than about your kids.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>David: So, looking at what it might look like to be open to doing some work for themselves.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We\u2019re Dave and Ann Wilson. and you\u2019ve been listening to FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We\u2019ve been talking with Sissy Goff and David Thomas. David\u2019s written a book called Raising Emotionally Strong Boys, and you can get a copy at FamilyLifeToday.com. Sissy\u2019s written a book called The Worry-Free Parent: Living in Confidence So Your Kids Can, Too.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: When you partner financially with FamilyLife to help more conversations like today\u2019s get into more homes, we want to send you a copy of her book as our thanks.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You can partner with us at FamilyLifeToday.com or by calling 800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Or you can mail us your donation at:<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife<\/p>\n<p>100 Lake Hart Drive<\/p>\n<p>Orlando, FL 32832<\/p>\n<p>Make sure to let us know you\u2019d like a copy of The Worry-Free Parent by Sissy Goff.<\/p>\n<p>Thanks for partnering with FamilyLife.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And thanks for listening. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p>www.FamilyLife<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/280250","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=280250"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280865"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=280250"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=280250"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=280250"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=280250"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=280250"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=280250"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}