{"id":280248,"date":"2024-06-13T09:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-06-13T13:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/redefining-masculinity-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson\/"},"modified":"2025-04-30T11:57:05","modified_gmt":"2025-04-30T15:57:05","slug":"redefining-masculinity-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/redefining-masculinity-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson\/","title":{"rendered":"Redefining Masculinity: Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess &#038; Ameen Hudson"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Rapper Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess and Ameen Hudson examine the critical causes and effects of the crisis of masculinity&#8211;and the kind of manhood that changes the world.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Rapper Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess and Ameen Hudson examine the critical causes and effects of the masculinity crisis&#8211;and the kind of manhood that changes the world.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":47000,"featured_media":280865,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/cf12a04f-339c-4e5f-89c6-b17f0159b8fd\/audio.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:31:40","filesize":"29.03M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-06-13 09:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[],"tags":[2103],"podcast_series":[8766],"cwp_profile":[9943,9942],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-280248","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","tag-crisis-of-masculinity","podcast_series-jesus-on-the-south-side-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson","cwp_profile-ameen-hudson","cwp_profile-kevin-kb-burgess","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/06\/image-scaled.jpg?w=1024","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/280248\/redefining-masculinity-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/280248\/redefining-masculinity-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"oJEcbGWhcD\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/redefining-masculinity-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson\/\">Redefining Masculinity: Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess &#038; Ameen Hudson<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/redefining-masculinity-kevin-kb-burgess-ameen-hudson\/embed\/#?secret=oJEcbGWhcD\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Redefining Masculinity: Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess &#038; Ameen Hudson&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"oJEcbGWhcD\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"secondline_imported_guid":["cf12a04f-339c-4e5f-89c6-b17f0159b8fd"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/traffic.omny.fm\/d\/clips\/cbd16f10-ac60-4f09-b4df-b15400ce35aa\/33aaac7e-3581-4e21-a3df-b154011ba58c\/cf12a04f-339c-4e5f-89c6-b17f0159b8fd\/audio.mp3"],"duration":["00:31:40"],"filesize":["29.03M"],"_thumbnail_id":["280865"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li>Connect with Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess &amp; Ameen Hudson and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/whoiskb.com\/\">whoiskb.com<\/a>, and on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/KB116\/\">Facebook<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/kb_hga\/\">Instagram<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/artist\/77IKXFvO7SpWrq8hflrUXc?autoplay=true&amp;v=A\">Spotify<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/kb.lnk.to\/HGAII\">Apple Music<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/kb_hga\">Twitter<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UCLmpl4oo00sMvNv9N3H7Vew\">Youtube<\/a> @kb_hga.<\/li>\n<li>And grab KB\u2019s book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/dangerous-jesus-why-the-only-thing-more-risky-than-getting-jesus-right-is-getting-jesus-wrong\">Dangerous Jesus: Why the Only Thing More Risky than Getting Jesus Right Is Getting Jesus Wrong<\/a> \" in our shop.<\/li>\n<li>Want to hear KB in concert? Look at his tour dates <a href=\"https:\/\/whoiskb.com\/tour\/\">here<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Intrigued by today\u2019s episode? Think deeper about <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/?s=racial+injustice\">racial injustice<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-06-13.pdf"],"transcript_content":["<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>Redefining Masculinity<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess and Ameen Hudson<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Jesus on the South Side (Day 2 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:June 13, 2024<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Your boys need to know not only that you love them, which is important; they need to know that you think that they\u2019re strong. I remember there was one time in particular, I pushed him to do something he didn\u2019t think he could do, and he did it. He walked up to me afterwards, and he said, \u201cDaddy, you make me feel powerful.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Seven or eight years ago, we were doing a marriage conference in Dallas. My buddy, Jon Kitna, who played for the Lions is now a coach for the Cowboys. He finds out we\u2019re in Dallas for the weekend. They\u2019re playing the Vikings on Sunday night, and [he] says, \u201cWill you come over and do chapel for the Cowboys Saturday night?\u201d \u201cYes, I\u2019ll do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I get a message together. I\u2019m driving to the facility. Chapel\u2019s in 20 minutes, and Jon calls me and says, \u201cHey, here\u2019s what you need to talk about!\u201d I say, \u201cDude, it\u2019s 20 minutes from now.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Right, right!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cI\u2019ve already got my thoughts together.\u201d Then he said, \u201cI\u2019m a coach on this team. I know what this team needs. I\u2019m telling you what to talk about.\u201d I said, \u201cSorry, Jon. I\u2019m not switching it. I can\u2019t even write anything down. I\u2019m driving.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He said, \u201cI\u2019m telling you what to talk about. Your stuff on manhood is what this team needs. Talk about that.\u201d I said, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ll figure something out.\u201d So, I get there, and I get up, and my opening line was this: \u201cI\u2019ve been in an NFL locker room for 30 plus seasons. NFL locker rooms are full of boys and few men. Men win championships, and boys don\u2019t. Let\u2019s talk about what a man is.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Oooooohhhhh!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I could tell\u2014everybody\u2019s there. Dak\u2019s there, Zeke\u2019s there, everybody\u2019s there, Jason Garrett\u2019s the coach. And I can tell when I said, \u201cLocker rooms are full of boys, not men\u2014\u201d Now, the world outside of that locker room thinks, \u201cOh, NFL players are men.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But all of the guys in that room were looking at me like, \u201cThis dude knows. He knows we\u2019re a bunch of boys. We don\u2019t really know what manhood is.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Anyway, we have Ameen and KB Burgess.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Ameen, what\u2019s your last name?<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Hudson.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Hudson, that\u2019s easy. So, let\u2019s talk a little bit about manhood. [There are] a lot of listeners, a lot of parents, raising boys, [and] a lot of women that are interested in this whole thing. Where would you start?<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Man, that is a very hard question: \u201cWhere do you start?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I think, if I had to take a stab at it, one, I think it\u2019s important, like the sons of Issachar, to understand the times. Before you know what to do, you need to understand the times.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I think it\u2019s important to recognize that there is a boy crisis\/a man crisis in this country right now, that actually spans across every western space on this planet.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Last year, I preached a sermon on June 19th. I preached the sermon, and in the first six months of that year, there had been over 200 school shootings, and all of them were done by men or boys. All of them.<\/p>\n<p>A brilliant author talked about how our response to that is, \u201cWell, it\u2019s the video games; it\u2019s the family values; it\u2019s the culture, issues at home.\u201d But the author of The Boy Crisis [Warren Farrell] pointed out that our daughters are growing up in those exact same homes with those exact same video games, with those exact same family values, and they are not killing us. Our boys are.<\/p>\n<p>In addition to that, our boys are taking their own lives.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: It has outpaced any pandemic you can think of. We are leading the world, particularly young men, in taking our own lives. Put all of the wars together: World War II, Vietnam, the Civil War. We are outpacing them all in self-inflicted mortality.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s a pandemic in itself.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: It is.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: It is a pandemic.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Awful.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: And because all of life is politicized in ways that, perhaps, we\u2019ve never seen before. I\u2019m about to pass it to you; I know you speak\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes, even you speaking to what is going on with men and our ability to be able to talk to it, or not being able to really say anything about it, because of the political discourse.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: I think that a big part of that is because the political discourse has become so polarized around several issues, gender in general, but then manhood being one of them. We\u2019ve addressed things in culture like toxic masculinity, misogyny, sexism; all of those things are things that need to be addressed.<\/p>\n<p>But you can\u2019t really address the issue that is happening with men without it making men seem like victims, and then a certain political side will say, \u201cWell, you all are just painting men to be victims,\u201d so there\u2019s no sympathy for men\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: \u2014right, right. There\u2019s no compassion.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014because they run everything, and they\u2019re ruining everything.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: But I think that, if we cannot have a public discourse where we can admit to and actually recognize the reality of the trouble that men and boys are in, then we cannot do anything about the actual problem that men and boys are facing. As you said, the self-mortality rate is high. Men have fallen very far behind women when it comes to college degrees.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Fatherhood is also\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014fatherhood is being impacted. So, all of those things. It\u2019s awesome that we want to see women empowered, and we fight for that; but there\u2019s also at the same time\u2014both\/and\u2014there is a problem with men, and that problem is only going to get worse if we don\u2019t address it.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: If you try to approximate a version of manhood that literally leaves Jesus out\u2014we talk about this. There is a great book called The Warrior Poet Way [John Lovell], where there is this dynamic that God has called you to a level of strength. You have muscles in certain areas on purpose, okay? And the idea is that you would use that for the protection of the group.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: There\u2019s value in that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Valor is important.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Hard work is important. Lifting heavy things\u2014I\u2019m not talking about the gym, I\u2019m just talking about what The Boy Crisis talks about. It\u2019s typically dudes on roofs, putting together houses in these dangerous jobs. Those things are important for our society, but if you think that just acting as a warrior and, oftentimes, it\u2019s just a warrior in men\u2019s minds\u2014\"I\u2019m a warrior on Call of Duty when I\u2019m playing PlayStation,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m a warrior in the gym because I can drink a lot of protein.\u201d \u201cI am a fighter.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Believe me when I tell you, you are not more dangerous because you have big muscles. Sometimes you\u2019re less dangerous, actually; but the idea is that, if you try to center masculinity on just being this strong, warrior presence, you miss that there\u2019s another side of what it means to be a man that is personified perfectly in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was the 100 percent man. In that, I am strong, but I am also meek.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I am generous, but I\u2019m also faithful to my bride. I am wise, but I\u2019m also able to be humble when told that I\u2019m wrong. I feel emotions of righteous indignation. I\u2019m ready and willing to march and to stand, but I also am ready and willing to listen. It\u2019s a warrior\/poet balance that, if it is not present in our men, we\u2019re not solving our rank depression.<\/p>\n<p>Studies are showing that men are not even talking to women anymore, so if I\u2019m a young man trying to pursue a marriage, men aren\u2019t doing it the regular ways in which men would normally do it, like, \u201cHey! My name is\u2014.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes, right!<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Even that is being shut down.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Is that how you did it? \u201cHey.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And they don\u2019t even know how to do it.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: They don\u2019t, for sure. That\u2019s true. That\u2019s very true.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: They\u2019re shooting a text or\u2014it\u2019s crazy.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay, so you have an eight- and nine-year-old boy, is that right, KB?<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I do. That is correct.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, they\u2019re being bombarded. Our world is bombarding these boys with these false images of what a true man is, a biblical, godly man.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You\u2019ve got the world pushing in on them. I\u2019m thinking of all of our listeners with teenage boys.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: How do we go against that? We don\u2019t want to be the parent\u2014\u201cJust take them to church,\u201d like you guys grew up. What are you doing as a father?<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Absolutely, and it is perhaps my favorite thing to do in my life: to father my children. The biggest advice that I would give, at least what comes to mind right now\u2014probably driving home, I\u2019ll think of something better\u2014[Laughter] but you can\u2019t just simply say, \u201cDon\u2019t listen to these guys.\u201d Right?<\/p>\n<p>Dave and Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: That is a part of it. You have to say some, \u201cNo! Certain voices will never be allowed in my home.\u201d But one of my favorite preachers said that rules without relationship equals rebellion.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: So, if I am being given a set of fences, and I have no idea what these fences are for\u2014you see, a fence exists to keep something out and to protect what\u2019s in. What\u2019s in? An actual home that we\u2019ve built, that we\u2019ve worked hard for to pay these bills and property taxes, and we have great lives and families here. There\u2019s actually something beautiful inside the gate.<\/p>\n<p>What I would say for my parents is that we want to be able to swipe away the foolishness of some of the things that are arising on these alternative views of what it means to be a man, but in our homes, we have to work hard to present a more beautiful, more glorious, more convincing, more perfect imagination of what it means to be a man in the way that I treat Michelle, in the way I care for her, the way I love her, the way I listen to her, the way in which I organize when I\u2019m given tasks at my house.<\/p>\n<p>I have a job there. I have a duty there. The way I carry that out [matters], in the way that I show that my manhood isn\u2019t merely victories.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: This is what you see online. It\u2019s private jets. It\u2019s a harem of women\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014a luxurious car.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: \u2014which I would not call victory, but I\u2019m just saying, you\u2019ve been able to have these moments of success and opulence. One of the things that my family here at FamilyLife has been very gracious to me in [is] allowing us to leave a little bit early because my son has a performance tonight at school, and it\u2019s really important for him that I am there, and I want to be there.<\/p>\n<p>Last night, my son had a little breakdown, and he said simply, \u201cI\u2019m going to fail tomorrow.\u201d I was reminded of a conversation I had with a brother a few months ago, when I was talking to him about how he wrestles with his children not wanting to attempt things unless they\u2019re good at it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: This is what I\u2019m saying. One of my boys in particular is like, \u201cI\u2019ll do it if I know I can kill it. If I\u2019m not going to kill it, I\u2019m not going through that process where I look silly for six months,\u201d right?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: And I said to my friend, \u201cI want them to know that they can fail.\u201d My friend said to me, \u201cHave they ever seen you fail?\u201d I stepped back, and I thought, \u201cMan, what they see from Daddy is awards and albums dropping.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Concerts.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Concerts. They see victory, victory, victory, victory. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve sat down with them and said, \u201cYou know, Daddy gets nervous every day; every day! You know Daddy sometimes is not sure if he knows what he\u2019s doing, and sometimes he knows he doesn\u2019t know what he\u2019s doing.\u201d Right?<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: \u201cYou know that Daddy has moments where he weeps. Do you know that Daddy is not perfect?\u201d And I had that convo with my son last night.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: How did that go?<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I saw his little eyes open up. \u201cHold on. Hold on. So, you are like me?\u201d \u201cYes, in some ways, I am you.\u201d I definitely want to be a picture of where you need to go, but make no mistake, we are humans and that is what, I would argue, the prerequisite of the presence of God really being something that is honored as it should in your life when you realize your dependency on it.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You need your humanity. And if your children don\u2019t see it\u2014if they see you as a ruler, they see you as an authority, and they see you as someone who doesn\u2019t make any mistakes, then they will continue to see you not like Jesus, Who was the High Priest, but don\u2019t get it twisted. \u201cI was made like you, so I can sympathize with your weaknesses. Yes, that\u2019s the kind of High Priest I am.\u201d You know?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: I think that that vulnerability is important, and I think that, even as a man myself, another thing that I think is important is affirming your sons, saying, \u201cI am proud of you. You are doing a good job.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: You see what the Father does to Jesus, right? He affirms Him in front of people. \u201cThis is my beloved Son, with Whom I am well pleased.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Vocal, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: In front of everybody. That\u2019s what a Father does, right?<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Right. I\u2019m getting goosebumps, man.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: I think that your son may only see you also\u2014you have to think about yourself: does my son only see me as an authority? I think that one of the things is, \u201cI need to let my son know, \u2018I love you, I\u2019m proud of you, I\u2019m here for you, you\u2019re doing a great job, and thank you for being my son,\u2019 or \u2018thank you for being courageous here,\u2019 or \u2018thank you for doing this for your mother\u2019.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>They need to know that you are not just an authority, but that they are loved [and] cared for, and that they are seen. I think that, if you are affirming your son, then that takes a lot of the need for these other men, who are not real men, to affirm them.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And your daughters.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: And daughters as well.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: And exactly, your daughters; right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Same thing, because they\u2019re going to go looking for it from another man.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes, they\u2019re going to look for it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I was thinking, KB, tonight\u2014here\u2019s what I know now, as a dad now of adult sons and grandkids\u2014your son is going to look out in that audience and you\u2019re going to be his strength.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: The strength of his father being there, not only that he knows your weaknesses and your failures, but just sitting there. I thought, when that happens, he\u2019s getting strength from his father. The same thing happens for us!<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It hit me, \u201cWell, that\u2019s how we get our strength, too, as our Heavenly Father applauds us. We think, \u201cI can\u2019t do this. I can\u2019t do this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: He says, \u201cYes, you can, and I will give you strength in that moment to do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I watched my youngest son play college football, and then a little bit in the NFL, and he played, not for my college, but against my college.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Ok, got you, got you.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And I remember the first time he scored three or four times in the stadium that I used to score multiple times. [Loud Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: You had to throw that in there.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. I was a quarterback, but he was a receiver. But I remember the first time at Ball State, which is where I played, he scored; and I remember, as he was handing the ball to the refs, he just threw a glance right up [to] where we\u2019re sitting.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes,yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I knew it was sort of, \u201cHey, Dad! I\u2019m better than you,\u201d but better than that, it was like, \u201cI think I\u2019m here because something you\u2014\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Oh, I love it!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It was just one of those five seconds where, \u201cYour strength is helping me do what I\u2019m doing right now as a college athlete.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes, I love it. I love it, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s going to happen in an eight-year-old boy tonight.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Tonight.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes, absolutely. Amen, amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Pretty cool.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: If I could add to that, I\u2019d also say [that] what you just said is a great example of even what some of the research is showing. For boys in particular, from their fathers, the effects [of] a father\u2019s presence in his son\u2019s life has unique benefits that you don\u2019t even see in your daughter\u2019s life. One study in The Boy Crisis pointed out that boys that are born prematurely, whose father is at the hospital regularly while the baby is growing to a place where they can leave\u2014if the father is present, the baby leaves the hospital faster.<\/p>\n<p>There are things that happen when you are wrestling your boys, that their levels of testosterone and different reactions and emotions are leveling out and maturing and strengthening through you just wrestling with them regularly.<\/p>\n<p>One of the most powerful moments\u2014I got a little emotional as you were talking, because my son, Keanu [is] a quiet boy, introverted, cool by himself. We went and celebrated his sister\u2019s birthday (my daughter\u2019s birthday) yesterday, and we would look up and say, \u201cWhere\u2019s Keanu?\u201d He\u2019s just around by himself having a great time.<\/p>\n<p>One day, he told me, after there was something hard that needed to be done, and I pushed him\u2014I said, \u201cYou can do it, and I\u2019m here for you to catch you if you don\u2019t. But it\u2019s in the attempt.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: That\u2019s what I told him last night. \u201cSon, you can\u2019t control how the audience is going to respond to you, or what your classmates are going to control, but what men do is they give their all, regardless. I give my all when I\u2019m scared, I give my all when I\u2019m unsure, I give my all when I don\u2019t know what the outcome is going to be. I give my all.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I remember there was one time in particular, probably like six months ago, [when] I pushed him to do something he didn\u2019t think he could do, and he did it. He walked to me afterwards and said, \u201cDaddy, you make me feel powerful.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I later read some research was done on what boys need to hear from their fathers, and they talked about how there\u2019s a good argument to be made that your boys need to know not only that you love them, which is important; they need to know that you think that they\u2019re strong. You want them to feel strong and respected. Powerful.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cYou have what it takes.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: They need to hear those words.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: \u201cYou have what it takes.\u201d Ameen alluded to it. In Jesus\u2019 life, there are two massive moments, once before He goes to the cross, and the other at the beginning of His ministry. Those are the only two times we saw God step down and speak audibly. Men, fathers, He didn\u2019t nod it, He didn\u2019t say, \u201cHey, I see you,\u201d or \u201cGood job, champ,\u201d or \u201cI might get you ice cream after this.\u201d No, it was very specific. \u201cThis is My Son.\u201d He hasn\u2019t done anything\u2014He has not yet saved the world\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And He was well-pleased.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: \u2014in time, but He\u2019s \u201cMy Son!\u201d \u201cMy love for Him is not only in what He does or will do, but Who He is. He is My Son.\u201d I try to tell my boys often, \u201cI am honored to be your father,\u201d and \u201cThis is my son, in whom I am well-pleased.\u201d He makes me smile. \u201cYou make me smile, son.\u201d That kind of affirmation is what boys need, particularly from their fathers, when they are about to go do hard things.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Scripture gives us that as a blueprint. Before He starts His ministry, before He goes to the cross, the Father steps in and says, \u201cBehold, I love this guy.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is a sermon, man. This is so good!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes; and as you were saying that, I was thinking, when a son\u2014and this is true for a daughter as well, but we\u2019re talking about boys right now.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: When a son understands his identity from his father in that sense, it breeds a confidence, even in the middle of a valley or fear.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: True!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: When he\u2019s standing on the stage tonight, there\u2019s a confidence down in there because his dad said it and gave it to him.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Guys, I know we\u2019re out of time, but I\u2019m just thinking of all the single moms that don\u2019t have a dad or a husband in their home, and they have these sons. They ask, \u201cWhat do we do?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Please [take] a minute to give them encouragement.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Absolutely. First of all, let\u2019s make no mistake that this was designed to be a tag-team effort for the building up of whole men and women in this world.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I think, for one, one of the beautiful things about the grace of God is that the grace of God is a gap-filler. In the book, The Boy Crisis, that was written by an author who\u2014it wasn\u2019t a Christian book. I don\u2019t know if the guy is a Christian, but he certainly doesn\u2019t talk about his faith publicly if he is. But this gentleman had done research on this issue for years, and in the book, The Boy Crisis, there\u2019s a little chapter called: \u201cCan God the Father Heal a Wounded Son?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>In this little chapter, he talks about this research that he found, largely coming out of inner cities\u2014not to say that fatherless is just an issue in inner cities; it\u2019s a national [and] international issue.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: But he found that boys were finding God the Father in churches, Christian churches, and finding healing and wholeness that was matching what you would get from having a father in the home.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s encouraging.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: This is secular research.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. Wow!<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: And I think that there\u2019s something to that. This is why we need healthy churches that are filled with men who love God\u2019s people, that love the fatherless. I have no ears for anybody coming from\u2014I won\u2019t name any names, but you\u2019re coming from a perspective where you are talking about fatherlessness, particularly in the inner city, yet you do not have any plan of addressing that fatherlessness outside of talking about it as a political point to score points against the liberals that you don\u2019t like.<\/p>\n<p>Because the fact of the matter is, what is the phrase that is attributed to God more than almost any other phrase in the Old Testament? It is that He is a Father to whom? The fatherless.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: The fatherless.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: The target of God\u2019s love throughout the O.T. is fatherless individuals. Job said that, \u201cIf I have not cared for the fatherless with the food of my own house, then I should be judged by God.\u201d It is important for the people of God to be fathers, and mothers for that matter, to the fatherless.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Amen!<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I think there is much hope in that\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014me, too.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: \u2014where there\u2019s grace in the church. And if there is not that in your church or in your family, then maybe there\u2019s more of a communal kind of family like the one that I grew in, where my uncles would approximate fatherhood in my life, or my grandfather. If that\u2019s not there, know that the power of prayer\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: That\u2019s what I saw in my life.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Did either of you have fathers in your home growing up?<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Not really. I didn\u2019t. I saw my dad once a year, so that\u2019s\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014see, I\u2019m looking at both of you. You didn\u2019t have your dads, and neither did Dave. And I look at you godly men who are impacting and changing the world for Jesus. There is hope.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Amen, Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: There is.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Amen, absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: And Ann, you said that much better than I could have. And that\u2019s what I would tell: \u201cWhat she said!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Exactly. That\u2019s exactly right.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: That\u2019s what I would tell my single mothers.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We\u2019re Dave and Ann Wilson, and you\u2019ve been listening to FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We\u2019ve been talking with KB [Burgess] and Ameen Hudson. KB has written a book called Dangerous Jesus: Why the Only Thing More Risky Than Getting Jesus Right is Getting Jesus Wrong. You can get a copy at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>You might not know this about FamilyLife, but we\u2019re donor-supported. That means that conversations like today\u2019s get into people\u2019s homes and cars because of financial partners who believe in reaching others with God\u2019s plan for families.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And right now, when you partner financially with FamilyLife to help more conversations like today\u2019s get into more homes, we want to send you as our thanks a copy of Sissy Goff\u2019s book, The Worry-Free Parent. That sounds like a good book, doesn\u2019t it? The Worry-Free Parent: Living in Confidence So Your Kids Can, Too.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You can partner with us at FamilyLifeToday.com or by calling 800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Or you can mail your donation to FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832. Make sure to let us know you\u2019d like a copy of The Worry-Free Parent by Sissy Goff. And let me say, \u201cThanks for partnering with FamilyLife.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And if you know anyone who needs to hear today\u2019s conversation, would you share it with them from wherever you get your podcasts? We\u2019re Ann and Dave Wilson, and we\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n"],"_edit_lock":["1746028647:47000"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_043e7aa2333231e40e97ceccbde77f5e88d4d64d":["\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Name\" type=\"name\"  required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Email\" type=\"email\" required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Website\" type=\"url\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Message\" type=\"textarea\" \/]"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_atts_043e7aa2333231e40e97ceccbde77f5e88d4d64d":["a:17:{s:2:\"to\";s:29:\"margaret.coyle@familylife.com\";s:7:\"subject\";s:91:\"[FamilyLife - A Cru Ministry] Redefining Masculinity: Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess & Ameen Hudson\";s:12:\"show_subject\";s:2:\"no\";s:6:\"widget\";i:0;s:14:\"block_template\";N;s:19:\"block_template_part\";N;s:2:\"id\";i:280248;s:18:\"submit_button_text\";s:6:\"Submit\";s:14:\"customThankyou\";s:0:\"\";s:21:\"customThankyouHeading\";s:26:\"Your message has been sent\";s:21:\"customThankyouMessage\";s:30:\"Thank you for your 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Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess and Ameen Hudson examine the critical causes and effects of the masculinity crisis--and the kind of manhood that changes the world.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Connect with Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess &amp; Ameen Hudson and catch more of their thoughts at <a href=\"https:\/\/whoiskb.com\/\">whoiskb.com<\/a>, and on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/KB116\/\">Facebook<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/kb_hga\/\">Instagram<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/artist\/77IKXFvO7SpWrq8hflrUXc?autoplay=true&amp;v=A\">Spotify<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/kb.lnk.to\/HGAII\">Apple Music<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/kb_hga\">Twitter<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UCLmpl4oo00sMvNv9N3H7Vew\">Youtube<\/a> @kb_hga.<\/li>\n<li>And grab KB\u2019s book, \"<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product\/dangerous-jesus-why-the-only-thing-more-risky-than-getting-jesus-right-is-getting-jesus-wrong\">Dangerous Jesus: Why the Only Thing More Risky than Getting Jesus Right Is Getting Jesus Wrong<\/a> \" in our shop.<\/li>\n<li>Want to hear KB in concert? Look at his tour dates <a href=\"https:\/\/whoiskb.com\/tour\/\">here<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Intrigued by today\u2019s episode? Think deeper about <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/?s=racial+injustice\">racial injustice<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2024-06-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>FamilyLife Today\u00ae National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript<\/p>\n<p>References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.<\/p>\n<p>Redefining Masculinity<\/p>\n<p>Guests:Kevin \u201cKB\u201d Burgess and Ameen Hudson<\/p>\n<p>From the series:Jesus on the South Side (Day 2 of 2)<\/p>\n<p>Air date:June 13, 2024<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Your boys need to know not only that you love them, which is important; they need to know that you think that they\u2019re strong. I remember there was one time in particular, I pushed him to do something he didn\u2019t think he could do, and he did it. He walked up to me afterwards, and he said, \u201cDaddy, you make me feel powerful.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: This is FamilyLife Today!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Seven or eight years ago, we were doing a marriage conference in Dallas. My buddy, Jon Kitna, who played for the Lions is now a coach for the Cowboys. He finds out we\u2019re in Dallas for the weekend. They\u2019re playing the Vikings on Sunday night, and [he] says, \u201cWill you come over and do chapel for the Cowboys Saturday night?\u201d \u201cYes, I\u2019ll do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I get a message together. I\u2019m driving to the facility. Chapel\u2019s in 20 minutes, and Jon calls me and says, \u201cHey, here\u2019s what you need to talk about!\u201d I say, \u201cDude, it\u2019s 20 minutes from now.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Right, right!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cI\u2019ve already got my thoughts together.\u201d Then he said, \u201cI\u2019m a coach on this team. I know what this team needs. I\u2019m telling you what to talk about.\u201d I said, \u201cSorry, Jon. I\u2019m not switching it. I can\u2019t even write anything down. I\u2019m driving.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He said, \u201cI\u2019m telling you what to talk about. Your stuff on manhood is what this team needs. Talk about that.\u201d I said, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ll figure something out.\u201d So, I get there, and I get up, and my opening line was this: \u201cI\u2019ve been in an NFL locker room for 30 plus seasons. NFL locker rooms are full of boys and few men. Men win championships, and boys don\u2019t. Let\u2019s talk about what a man is.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Oooooohhhhh!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I could tell\u2014everybody\u2019s there. Dak\u2019s there, Zeke\u2019s there, everybody\u2019s there, Jason Garrett\u2019s the coach. And I can tell when I said, \u201cLocker rooms are full of boys, not men\u2014\u201d Now, the world outside of that locker room thinks, \u201cOh, NFL players are men.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: But all of the guys in that room were looking at me like, \u201cThis dude knows. He knows we\u2019re a bunch of boys. We don\u2019t really know what manhood is.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Anyway, we have Ameen and KB Burgess.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Ameen, what\u2019s your last name?<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Hudson.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Hudson, that\u2019s easy. So, let\u2019s talk a little bit about manhood. [There are] a lot of listeners, a lot of parents, raising boys, [and] a lot of women that are interested in this whole thing. Where would you start?<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Man, that is a very hard question: \u201cWhere do you start?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I think, if I had to take a stab at it, one, I think it\u2019s important, like the sons of Issachar, to understand the times. Before you know what to do, you need to understand the times.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I think it\u2019s important to recognize that there is a boy crisis\/a man crisis in this country right now, that actually spans across every western space on this planet.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Last year, I preached a sermon on June 19th. I preached the sermon, and in the first six months of that year, there had been over 200 school shootings, and all of them were done by men or boys. All of them.<\/p>\n<p>A brilliant author talked about how our response to that is, \u201cWell, it\u2019s the video games; it\u2019s the family values; it\u2019s the culture, issues at home.\u201d But the author of The Boy Crisis [Warren Farrell] pointed out that our daughters are growing up in those exact same homes with those exact same video games, with those exact same family values, and they are not killing us. Our boys are.<\/p>\n<p>In addition to that, our boys are taking their own lives.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: It has outpaced any pandemic you can think of. We are leading the world, particularly young men, in taking our own lives. Put all of the wars together: World War II, Vietnam, the Civil War. We are outpacing them all in self-inflicted mortality.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s a pandemic in itself.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: It is.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: It is a pandemic.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Awful.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: And because all of life is politicized in ways that, perhaps, we\u2019ve never seen before. I\u2019m about to pass it to you; I know you speak\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes, even you speaking to what is going on with men and our ability to be able to talk to it, or not being able to really say anything about it, because of the political discourse.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: I think that a big part of that is because the political discourse has become so polarized around several issues, gender in general, but then manhood being one of them. We\u2019ve addressed things in culture like toxic masculinity, misogyny, sexism; all of those things are things that need to be addressed.<\/p>\n<p>But you can\u2019t really address the issue that is happening with men without it making men seem like victims, and then a certain political side will say, \u201cWell, you all are just painting men to be victims,\u201d so there\u2019s no sympathy for men\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: \u2014right, right. There\u2019s no compassion.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014because they run everything, and they\u2019re ruining everything.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: But I think that, if we cannot have a public discourse where we can admit to and actually recognize the reality of the trouble that men and boys are in, then we cannot do anything about the actual problem that men and boys are facing. As you said, the self-mortality rate is high. Men have fallen very far behind women when it comes to college degrees.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Fatherhood is also\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014fatherhood is being impacted. So, all of those things. It\u2019s awesome that we want to see women empowered, and we fight for that; but there\u2019s also at the same time\u2014both\/and\u2014there is a problem with men, and that problem is only going to get worse if we don\u2019t address it.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: If you try to approximate a version of manhood that literally leaves Jesus out\u2014we talk about this. There is a great book called The Warrior Poet Way [John Lovell], where there is this dynamic that God has called you to a level of strength. You have muscles in certain areas on purpose, okay? And the idea is that you would use that for the protection of the group.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: There\u2019s value in that.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Valor is important.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Hard work is important. Lifting heavy things\u2014I\u2019m not talking about the gym, I\u2019m just talking about what The Boy Crisis talks about. It\u2019s typically dudes on roofs, putting together houses in these dangerous jobs. Those things are important for our society, but if you think that just acting as a warrior and, oftentimes, it\u2019s just a warrior in men\u2019s minds\u2014\"I\u2019m a warrior on Call of Duty when I\u2019m playing PlayStation,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m a warrior in the gym because I can drink a lot of protein.\u201d \u201cI am a fighter.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Believe me when I tell you, you are not more dangerous because you have big muscles. Sometimes you\u2019re less dangerous, actually; but the idea is that, if you try to center masculinity on just being this strong, warrior presence, you miss that there\u2019s another side of what it means to be a man that is personified perfectly in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was the 100 percent man. In that, I am strong, but I am also meek.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I am generous, but I\u2019m also faithful to my bride. I am wise, but I\u2019m also able to be humble when told that I\u2019m wrong. I feel emotions of righteous indignation. I\u2019m ready and willing to march and to stand, but I also am ready and willing to listen. It\u2019s a warrior\/poet balance that, if it is not present in our men, we\u2019re not solving our rank depression.<\/p>\n<p>Studies are showing that men are not even talking to women anymore, so if I\u2019m a young man trying to pursue a marriage, men aren\u2019t doing it the regular ways in which men would normally do it, like, \u201cHey! My name is\u2014.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes, right!<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Even that is being shut down.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Is that how you did it? \u201cHey.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And they don\u2019t even know how to do it.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: They don\u2019t, for sure. That\u2019s true. That\u2019s very true.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: They\u2019re shooting a text or\u2014it\u2019s crazy.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Okay, so you have an eight- and nine-year-old boy, is that right, KB?<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I do. That is correct.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: So, they\u2019re being bombarded. Our world is bombarding these boys with these false images of what a true man is, a biblical, godly man.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You\u2019ve got the world pushing in on them. I\u2019m thinking of all of our listeners with teenage boys.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: How do we go against that? We don\u2019t want to be the parent\u2014\u201cJust take them to church,\u201d like you guys grew up. What are you doing as a father?<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Absolutely, and it is perhaps my favorite thing to do in my life: to father my children. The biggest advice that I would give, at least what comes to mind right now\u2014probably driving home, I\u2019ll think of something better\u2014[Laughter] but you can\u2019t just simply say, \u201cDon\u2019t listen to these guys.\u201d Right?<\/p>\n<p>Dave and Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: That is a part of it. You have to say some, \u201cNo! Certain voices will never be allowed in my home.\u201d But one of my favorite preachers said that rules without relationship equals rebellion.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: So, if I am being given a set of fences, and I have no idea what these fences are for\u2014you see, a fence exists to keep something out and to protect what\u2019s in. What\u2019s in? An actual home that we\u2019ve built, that we\u2019ve worked hard for to pay these bills and property taxes, and we have great lives and families here. There\u2019s actually something beautiful inside the gate.<\/p>\n<p>What I would say for my parents is that we want to be able to swipe away the foolishness of some of the things that are arising on these alternative views of what it means to be a man, but in our homes, we have to work hard to present a more beautiful, more glorious, more convincing, more perfect imagination of what it means to be a man in the way that I treat Michelle, in the way I care for her, the way I love her, the way I listen to her, the way in which I organize when I\u2019m given tasks at my house.<\/p>\n<p>I have a job there. I have a duty there. The way I carry that out [matters], in the way that I show that my manhood isn\u2019t merely victories.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: This is what you see online. It\u2019s private jets. It\u2019s a harem of women\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: \u2014a luxurious car.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: \u2014which I would not call victory, but I\u2019m just saying, you\u2019ve been able to have these moments of success and opulence. One of the things that my family here at FamilyLife has been very gracious to me in [is] allowing us to leave a little bit early because my son has a performance tonight at school, and it\u2019s really important for him that I am there, and I want to be there.<\/p>\n<p>Last night, my son had a little breakdown, and he said simply, \u201cI\u2019m going to fail tomorrow.\u201d I was reminded of a conversation I had with a brother a few months ago, when I was talking to him about how he wrestles with his children not wanting to attempt things unless they\u2019re good at it.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: This is what I\u2019m saying. One of my boys in particular is like, \u201cI\u2019ll do it if I know I can kill it. If I\u2019m not going to kill it, I\u2019m not going through that process where I look silly for six months,\u201d right?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: And I said to my friend, \u201cI want them to know that they can fail.\u201d My friend said to me, \u201cHave they ever seen you fail?\u201d I stepped back, and I thought, \u201cMan, what they see from Daddy is awards and albums dropping.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Concerts.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Concerts. They see victory, victory, victory, victory. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve sat down with them and said, \u201cYou know, Daddy gets nervous every day; every day! You know Daddy sometimes is not sure if he knows what he\u2019s doing, and sometimes he knows he doesn\u2019t know what he\u2019s doing.\u201d Right?<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: \u201cYou know that Daddy has moments where he weeps. Do you know that Daddy is not perfect?\u201d And I had that convo with my son last night.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: How did that go?<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I saw his little eyes open up. \u201cHold on. Hold on. So, you are like me?\u201d \u201cYes, in some ways, I am you.\u201d I definitely want to be a picture of where you need to go, but make no mistake, we are humans and that is what, I would argue, the prerequisite of the presence of God really being something that is honored as it should in your life when you realize your dependency on it.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: You need your humanity. And if your children don\u2019t see it\u2014if they see you as a ruler, they see you as an authority, and they see you as someone who doesn\u2019t make any mistakes, then they will continue to see you not like Jesus, Who was the High Priest, but don\u2019t get it twisted. \u201cI was made like you, so I can sympathize with your weaknesses. Yes, that\u2019s the kind of High Priest I am.\u201d You know?<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: I think that that vulnerability is important, and I think that, even as a man myself, another thing that I think is important is affirming your sons, saying, \u201cI am proud of you. You are doing a good job.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: You see what the Father does to Jesus, right? He affirms Him in front of people. \u201cThis is my beloved Son, with Whom I am well pleased.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Vocal, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: In front of everybody. That\u2019s what a Father does, right?<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Right. I\u2019m getting goosebumps, man.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: I think that your son may only see you also\u2014you have to think about yourself: does my son only see me as an authority? I think that one of the things is, \u201cI need to let my son know, \u2018I love you, I\u2019m proud of you, I\u2019m here for you, you\u2019re doing a great job, and thank you for being my son,\u2019 or \u2018thank you for being courageous here,\u2019 or \u2018thank you for doing this for your mother\u2019.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>They need to know that you are not just an authority, but that they are loved [and] cared for, and that they are seen. I think that, if you are affirming your son, then that takes a lot of the need for these other men, who are not real men, to affirm them.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And your daughters.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: And daughters as well.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: And exactly, your daughters; right.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Same thing, because they\u2019re going to go looking for it from another man.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes, they\u2019re going to look for it.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I was thinking, KB, tonight\u2014here\u2019s what I know now, as a dad now of adult sons and grandkids\u2014your son is going to look out in that audience and you\u2019re going to be his strength.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: The strength of his father being there, not only that he knows your weaknesses and your failures, but just sitting there. I thought, when that happens, he\u2019s getting strength from his father. The same thing happens for us!<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It hit me, \u201cWell, that\u2019s how we get our strength, too, as our Heavenly Father applauds us. We think, \u201cI can\u2019t do this. I can\u2019t do this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: He says, \u201cYes, you can, and I will give you strength in that moment to do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I watched my youngest son play college football, and then a little bit in the NFL, and he played, not for my college, but against my college.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Ok, got you, got you.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And I remember the first time he scored three or four times in the stadium that I used to score multiple times. [Loud Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: You had to throw that in there.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. I was a quarterback, but he was a receiver. But I remember the first time at Ball State, which is where I played, he scored; and I remember, as he was handing the ball to the refs, he just threw a glance right up [to] where we\u2019re sitting.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes,yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I knew it was sort of, \u201cHey, Dad! I\u2019m better than you,\u201d but better than that, it was like, \u201cI think I\u2019m here because something you\u2014\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Oh, I love it!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: It was just one of those five seconds where, \u201cYour strength is helping me do what I\u2019m doing right now as a college athlete.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes, I love it. I love it, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s going to happen in an eight-year-old boy tonight.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Tonight.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes, absolutely. Amen, amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Pretty cool.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: If I could add to that, I\u2019d also say [that] what you just said is a great example of even what some of the research is showing. For boys in particular, from their fathers, the effects [of] a father\u2019s presence in his son\u2019s life has unique benefits that you don\u2019t even see in your daughter\u2019s life. One study in The Boy Crisis pointed out that boys that are born prematurely, whose father is at the hospital regularly while the baby is growing to a place where they can leave\u2014if the father is present, the baby leaves the hospital faster.<\/p>\n<p>There are things that happen when you are wrestling your boys, that their levels of testosterone and different reactions and emotions are leveling out and maturing and strengthening through you just wrestling with them regularly.<\/p>\n<p>One of the most powerful moments\u2014I got a little emotional as you were talking, because my son, Keanu [is] a quiet boy, introverted, cool by himself. We went and celebrated his sister\u2019s birthday (my daughter\u2019s birthday) yesterday, and we would look up and say, \u201cWhere\u2019s Keanu?\u201d He\u2019s just around by himself having a great time.<\/p>\n<p>One day, he told me, after there was something hard that needed to be done, and I pushed him\u2014I said, \u201cYou can do it, and I\u2019m here for you to catch you if you don\u2019t. But it\u2019s in the attempt.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: That\u2019s what I told him last night. \u201cSon, you can\u2019t control how the audience is going to respond to you, or what your classmates are going to control, but what men do is they give their all, regardless. I give my all when I\u2019m scared, I give my all when I\u2019m unsure, I give my all when I don\u2019t know what the outcome is going to be. I give my all.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I remember there was one time in particular, probably like six months ago, [when] I pushed him to do something he didn\u2019t think he could do, and he did it. He walked to me afterwards and said, \u201cDaddy, you make me feel powerful.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I later read some research was done on what boys need to hear from their fathers, and they talked about how there\u2019s a good argument to be made that your boys need to know not only that you love them, which is important; they need to know that you think that they\u2019re strong. You want them to feel strong and respected. Powerful.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: \u201cYou have what it takes.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: They need to hear those words.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: \u201cYou have what it takes.\u201d Ameen alluded to it. In Jesus\u2019 life, there are two massive moments, once before He goes to the cross, and the other at the beginning of His ministry. Those are the only two times we saw God step down and speak audibly. Men, fathers, He didn\u2019t nod it, He didn\u2019t say, \u201cHey, I see you,\u201d or \u201cGood job, champ,\u201d or \u201cI might get you ice cream after this.\u201d No, it was very specific. \u201cThis is My Son.\u201d He hasn\u2019t done anything\u2014He has not yet saved the world\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And He was well-pleased.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: \u2014in time, but He\u2019s \u201cMy Son!\u201d \u201cMy love for Him is not only in what He does or will do, but Who He is. He is My Son.\u201d I try to tell my boys often, \u201cI am honored to be your father,\u201d and \u201cThis is my son, in whom I am well-pleased.\u201d He makes me smile. \u201cYou make me smile, son.\u201d That kind of affirmation is what boys need, particularly from their fathers, when they are about to go do hard things.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Scripture gives us that as a blueprint. Before He starts His ministry, before He goes to the cross, the Father steps in and says, \u201cBehold, I love this guy.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: This is a sermon, man. This is so good!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes; and as you were saying that, I was thinking, when a son\u2014and this is true for a daughter as well, but we\u2019re talking about boys right now.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: When a son understands his identity from his father in that sense, it breeds a confidence, even in the middle of a valley or fear.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: True!<\/p>\n<p>Dave: When he\u2019s standing on the stage tonight, there\u2019s a confidence down in there because his dad said it and gave it to him.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Guys, I know we\u2019re out of time, but I\u2019m just thinking of all the single moms that don\u2019t have a dad or a husband in their home, and they have these sons. They ask, \u201cWhat do we do?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Please [take] a minute to give them encouragement.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: Absolutely. First of all, let\u2019s make no mistake that this was designed to be a tag-team effort for the building up of whole men and women in this world.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I think, for one, one of the beautiful things about the grace of God is that the grace of God is a gap-filler. In the book, The Boy Crisis, that was written by an author who\u2014it wasn\u2019t a Christian book. I don\u2019t know if the guy is a Christian, but he certainly doesn\u2019t talk about his faith publicly if he is. But this gentleman had done research on this issue for years, and in the book, The Boy Crisis, there\u2019s a little chapter called: \u201cCan God the Father Heal a Wounded Son?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>In this little chapter, he talks about this research that he found, largely coming out of inner cities\u2014not to say that fatherless is just an issue in inner cities; it\u2019s a national [and] international issue.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: But he found that boys were finding God the Father in churches, Christian churches, and finding healing and wholeness that was matching what you would get from having a father in the home.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s encouraging.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: This is secular research.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Yes. Wow!<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: And I think that there\u2019s something to that. This is why we need healthy churches that are filled with men who love God\u2019s people, that love the fatherless. I have no ears for anybody coming from\u2014I won\u2019t name any names, but you\u2019re coming from a perspective where you are talking about fatherlessness, particularly in the inner city, yet you do not have any plan of addressing that fatherlessness outside of talking about it as a political point to score points against the liberals that you don\u2019t like.<\/p>\n<p>Because the fact of the matter is, what is the phrase that is attributed to God more than almost any other phrase in the Old Testament? It is that He is a Father to whom? The fatherless.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: The fatherless.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: The target of God\u2019s love throughout the O.T. is fatherless individuals. Job said that, \u201cIf I have not cared for the fatherless with the food of my own house, then I should be judged by God.\u201d It is important for the people of God to be fathers, and mothers for that matter, to the fatherless.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Amen!<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: I think there is much hope in that\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014me, too.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: \u2014where there\u2019s grace in the church. And if there is not that in your church or in your family, then maybe there\u2019s more of a communal kind of family like the one that I grew in, where my uncles would approximate fatherhood in my life, or my grandfather. If that\u2019s not there, know that the power of prayer\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: That\u2019s what I saw in my life.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Did either of you have fathers in your home growing up?<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Not really. I didn\u2019t. I saw my dad once a year, so that\u2019s\u2014<\/p>\n<p>Ann: \u2014see, I\u2019m looking at both of you. You didn\u2019t have your dads, and neither did Dave. And I look at you godly men who are impacting and changing the world for Jesus. There is hope.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Amen, Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: There is.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Amen, absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: And Ann, you said that much better than I could have. And that\u2019s what I would tell: \u201cWhat she said!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Exactly. That\u2019s exactly right.<\/p>\n<p>Kevin: That\u2019s what I would tell my single mothers.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Wow.<\/p>\n<p>Ameen: Amen.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: We\u2019re Dave and Ann Wilson, and you\u2019ve been listening to FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: We\u2019ve been talking with KB [Burgess] and Ameen Hudson. KB has written a book called Dangerous Jesus: Why the Only Thing More Risky Than Getting Jesus Right is Getting Jesus Wrong. You can get a copy at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>You might not know this about FamilyLife, but we\u2019re donor-supported. That means that conversations like today\u2019s get into people\u2019s homes and cars because of financial partners who believe in reaching others with God\u2019s plan for families.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: And right now, when you partner financially with FamilyLife to help more conversations like today\u2019s get into more homes, we want to send you as our thanks a copy of Sissy Goff\u2019s book, The Worry-Free Parent. That sounds like a good book, doesn\u2019t it? The Worry-Free Parent: Living in Confidence So Your Kids Can, Too.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: You can partner with us at FamilyLifeToday.com or by calling 800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dave: Or you can mail your donation to FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832. Make sure to let us know you\u2019d like a copy of The Worry-Free Parent by Sissy Goff. And let me say, \u201cThanks for partnering with FamilyLife.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Ann: And if you know anyone who needs to hear today\u2019s conversation, would you share it with them from wherever you get your podcasts? We\u2019re Ann and Dave Wilson, and we\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n<p>Dave: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife\u00ae, a Cru\u00ae Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Ann: Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright \u00a9 2024 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/280248","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/47000"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=280248"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/280865"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=280248"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=280248"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=280248"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=280248"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=280248"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=280248"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}