Submission in Marriage: The Freedom and Relief (Not Silence!) No One Told You About – Brittany Gray and Ari Todd

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Submission in Marriage: The Freedom and Relief (Not Silence!) No One Told You About

Guests:Brittany Gray and Ari Todd

From the series:Submission (Day 2 of 2)

Air date:January 16, 2026

Arianysis (00:04):

Even though it makes absolutely no sense to me, we obey what the Lord says and it’s nothing like what I thought. A plus B is C, it ends up being Z. And I didn’t even know that that was part of the equation because God is the one in control.

Dave (00:26):

Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Dave Wilson.

Ann (00:31):

And I’m Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

We’re back with my friends, Brittany and Arianysis, and we’re going to be talking about submission so buckle your seatbelt, ladies. Here we go.

Control Room:

And gentlemen.

Ann:

That’s true. And gentlemen. I remember seeing my friend Andrea Griffith use this illustration on stage as she was teaching. She had an umbrella in her hand. And I use this now for myself.

(01:07):

And I’ll put the umbrella and I’ll open it and I’ll say to the women in the audience “What part is most important? Is it the canvas that covers us as the umbrella or is it the handle that holds up and supports the canvas? Which one is the most important?” And there some will say one or the other and it’s like you really can’t have one apart from the other. Because if you only have the canvas, it’s not really covering all of you. But if you only have the handle, it’s more like a lightning rod. You don’t have the covering to protect you. And I said I think that’s a good picture of submission and our roles as husbands and wives. Is one more important than the other? God says we’re equal. And so if we’re living out, if we as women are supporting, cheering on, if we’re seeing who our husbands are, if we’re caring for our families the way God has called us to do, and then our husbands are this protective covering.

(02:05):

Which is also incredibly important, and who are we both submitting to? The Father—as to Him. And I remember one pastor saying, “I want you to give your lives to Jesus, and Jesus has so much for you.” And as especially a new believer, you’re like, “Yes, yes, I will do anything for you Jesus. I will serve you. I will do anything. Put me back in the kids. I’ll go to Africa to be a missionary.” And he goes, “You know what the thing I want you to do, I want you to go home and love your husbands.” And then the wife is like, “Wait, what?” “I want you to love him. And I want him to know how much God loves him by the way you love him.” Now we’re getting into it. Now that’s real because as you said earlier, Brittany, but what if he doesn’t deserve it? Did we deserve God’s death on the cross and his bloodshed for us? No. So I think it’s convicting and it’s beautiful, but the thing that you’re both saying is you feel freedom in it.

Arianysis:

Absolutely.

Ann:

Why that word?

Arianysis (03:11):

Because to me, submission is my participation in the life, death and resurrection of Christ. One of my biggest pet peeves that I have when I hear pastors talk about submission, and it’s the Sunday that they’re going to talk about Ephesians 5 or they’re going to talk about 1 Peter or whatever other passage that has to, or they’re going into Genesis, they’re going to talk about submission, and they talk to the women. And I’ve seen this. “I know ladies, I’m so sorry.”

(03:42):

I know. It’s almost like we’ve drawn the short end of the stick. I know it’s submission. I know you don’t want to hear about this, and they talk about it like it’s this bad deal that we got. We got the short end of the stick in God’s purpose, but in reality, it is our participation in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself submitted not just to the Father when He was here on earth, but I believe it’s in John where it says that He submitted to His mother and His father—

Brittany:

Absolutely.

Arianysis:

—fallen people, undeserving people.

Ann (04:17):

He’s God.

Arianysis (04:18):

God Almighty, seated at the right hand of the Father.

(04:20):

Colossians 1 people is submitting to Mary and Joseph, who are they?

Ann:

Born in sin.

Arianysis:

Exactly. And yet He submits to them. And so I get to participate in that. I get to walk that path of Christ. The death that Christ did on the cross for us, I get to participate in that. There is death in submitting to my husband. I have to put to death. But in that death, the same way that in Jesus obeying the Father, obeying Him even to the point of death on the cross, what caused Him to be fully dependent on His father? My death in submitting to my husband causes me to be fully dependent on Christ. Nobody in this world, nobody else in this world gets to experience the level of dependency that I have on the Lord in order to submit to Isaac Blake Todd. And it’s like—I was telling Ike about this last night—it’s kind of like how we are here in this world and we yearn for the coming of Christ. It’s like obviously nobody wants to die, nobody wants to, but we yearn for the coming of Christ because we just want to be with our Savior. It’s the same way every time that it is difficult for me to submit to Ike, I get to run to my Savior. I get to have one-on-one time with the Lord. I get to have Him speak to me. I get to have Him mold me. I get to have Him shape me. I get to have this moment with my Lord and Savior that is unique to me.

(05:57):

This is a way that Christ has provided a unique opportunity for me to run to Him.

Ann (06:01):

Give us an example where you’ve had to run to Him, maybe it’s been hard. What does that prayer sound like?

Arianysis (06:06):

All of the women that I know that are believing Christians that are willing to say, “Lord, you are Lord over my life and therefore I’m willing to submit,” are smarter, more capable, more wise, more discerning than the husbands that God has given them. I’m just going to be—

Ann:

That’s a big statement.

Arianysis:

I’m just going to be like, “I’m sorry.”

Ann:

Wait, are we including you two in this?

Arianysis:

Yes, very much so. I love you so much, Ike. You have the spirit of God in you. And I know that the Lord uses you and speaks to you. I know that.

Ann (06:43):

I can’t wait for them and him to hear this.

Arianysis (06:47):

Yes. But honestly, I don’t think that either one of our husbands would argue this to a certain extent, and this isn’t—

Ann (06:55):

I think that they would agree with you for sure.

Arianysis (06:57):

Yeah, and this isn’t a knock to them. This is just saying God has given women a particular way of discerning things, and we can sometimes see things before they happen in a sense. We can discern A plus B equal C and dah, dah, dah, dah, and that equals that. And so therefore we can’t do this, dah, dah, dah. And so there’s been times in our marriage where we’re making decisions and I’m like, “That doesn’t make any sense.”

Ann:

Will you say that?

Arianysis (07:20):

Yes. I will say—oh, very honest like—

Ann (07:23):

When you’re saying—and I think this is important—to be submissive does not mean you lose your voice of saying what you feel. Because some were like, “I can’t even say it.” No, you can say it.

Arianysis:

No, you can very much say—

Ann:

So you said this is a bad decision.

Arianysis (07:35):

This is a bad decision. This is not good.

Ann (07:38):

And he’s not threatened by it?

Arianysis (07:39):

At all. In those moments, I have seen Ike say, “You know what, I think you’re right. Let’s pray about it and then let’s see what the Lord tells us to do.” And sometimes it ends up being what I say. And sometimes, even though it makes absolutely no sense to me, we obey what the Lord says. And it’s nothing like what I thought. A plus B is C, it ends up being Z. And I didn’t even know that that was part of the equation because God is the one in control.

Ann (08:08):

Yes.

Brittany (08:09):

Absolutely.

Arianysis:

And so in those moments when that’s hard and I am gnashing my teeth and just like, “Why would this man even think that this is”— Now I’m like, “God”—and I tell it like, “Lord, what? What is this? Why this man?”

Ann:

That’s what your prayer sounds like.

Arianysis:

Yes, that’s what my prayers sound like. “Lord, this makes absolutely no sense. I don’t get it. Why would you give me this foresight to see this and dah, dah, dah? How is he not seeing this? How is he not able to put two and two together? How is he not able to see that? If the Tupperware is in the dishwasher, then that means that the lid is also there because it was used so therefore put them together and put them in the drawer. How is that even possible? How does he not see that? Lord, why? Why?” And in those moments, the Lord reminds me, “I am God. I am in control.”

Brittany (08:54):

Yeah.

Arianysis (08:55):

“Not you. You cannot see all things.”

Ann (08:59):

And “You can trust me.”

Arianysis (09:00):

“You can trust me.” And so then my prayer turns into “Lord, shape my perspective based on your purpose. Help me to see this from your framework, not mine. God, I submit this. I don’t know how this makes sense, but I’m trusting you. So help me to have peace in this. Sustain me, help me, help me.” And that’s just like a dependence. And I get this isn’t the short end of the stick. There is joy in that because it’s driving me to my Savior.

Ann (09:34):

And it’s off our shoulders. There’s a relief to me when it’s not on me.

Arianysis:

Listen, listen.

Ann:

Let’s say that you did rebel of be like, “No, I am right in this and we’re going to do it my way.” What would happen is now you have a marriage that you’re on two separate pages. Your husband feels disrespected. He feels like, “Well, I don’t even have a voice. She’s going to do whatever she wants anyway.” And now you have a marriage that’s like teetering, like where are we? But because of your submission to him and to God, now you’re like, “Well, alright.”

What about you guys, Brittany, have you ever faced a hard decision?

Brittany (10:18):

Yeah, we really have. I mean through many, many years of, and this is what’s interesting as well as our lives have changed, our personalities have changed.

Ann (10:29):

Yeah.

Brittany (10:30):

I’ve learned more about him. He’s learned more about me. So what this looks like has changed over the years. And I guess you would say our roles have been solid, but everything around it has been molded and shaped by our season of life.

Ann (10:44):

Sure.

Brittany (10:45):

So the Lord is he’s always challenging us to do hard things. And I think the Lord speaks through those hard things. He’ll whisper it in my ear, and he’ll shout it to Rechab. And so I’m going to be like, “I can’t hear that whisper. I don’t hear that.” And then Rechab’s like, “I heard the shout. This is what the Lord is saying.”

Ann (11:05):

Yeah.

Brittany (11:06):

I think an amazing thing that Rechab does is—I mean he’s a very chill person. He’s not super uptight, but when it comes to things of the Lord, he does not budge. And if he knows the Lord has told him this, he’s like, “I’m standing firm. Are you with me?” And often I think in the beginning of our marriage, I would take it as obedience. Yes, I’m with you. I will do what you say.

Ann (11:32):

Yeah, you’re the robot.

Brittany (11:33):

Yeah. And I would just be in the back of my mind, I’m like kind of what you’re saying, “I know this isn’t going to work out. I know things are going to go bad but let him see his failure.” And now as I’ve matured in my marriage, it’s more of a posture of, it’s more a submissive posture of—

Ann:

It’s more we.

Brittany:

We and my heart is yearning for God to be glorified with everything. So it’s not about, okay, I’m going to be the robot and do what Rechab has pushed us to go towards. It’s more of my heart yearns for God to be glorified in this. So how can I support and move forward with Rechab so we can be a unit, and we can see God’s flourishing? Because I’ve seen so many times over and over and over again where I thought I was right. And so I would sit in the corner and mull over, “Okay, this is wrong. Okay, this is wrong and this is wrong.” And then present it to him like, “I followed your orders, but this is what was all wrong.” And it’s like, “Oh, why did you follow my orders if you really, your heart wasn’t really in it.” And so now that I feel that more, that tug of like, “Okay, Lord, you’re pushing for something here and I might not be able to see it clearly.” Like you said, there might be A plus B might equal Z. And I’ve never seen that happen before. I don’t even know the miracles of God that He can perform in this. And so I’ve seen time and time again where the Lord just used those moments of just like, “If your heart is with me, I will cover you and protect you. Your husband is guiding you and leading you, follow him.” And I’ve seen things flourish.

Ann (13:04):

And we’re a team. I feel like when we’re not a team, God has made us as one and so we should function as a team, and I want to be a good teammate. So if I’m on a sports team and I don’t agree with what the coach says or a player is doing, and I’m like, “Well, I’m going to do what I want,” you are going to lose as a team. But as a team, and we’re battling the enemy.

Arianysis:

Absolutely.

Ann:

We’re taking territory as a family together as a teammate. But man the enemy, he wants to divide us. He wants us to be in our heads as women like, “Well, that’s a dumb decision.” And there have been times of giving in money where Dave has come in and said, “I feel like we’re supposed to give,” to me at this time was a ridiculous amount for this capital campaign and tithing. And I remember saying, “That sounds just dumb and irresponsible.” And I would say that, but then I said, “But let me pray about it.” And so I would go to the Lord, same thing, “Lord, this feels irresponsible like we’re not good stewards. This is not wise.”

(14:13):

“Father, what do you think?” And I think that step for us as women, “Father, what do you think?” And to listen to our husbands, “What do you think?” And I felt like God was saying “Yes, Dave, he has exactly that number that I gave him. And you can trust me in this, and Dave.”

Hey guys, we just wanted to take a quick minute to jump in and say whatever you’re going through today—I think this is important to remember—you aren’t alone. And did you know that Dave and I have a team at FamilyLife Today ready to pray for you. And it’s this incredible honor and a privilege to lift your name up to God. So if you need prayer, please don’t hesitate to reach out to us. I really mean that. Head on over to FamilyLife.com/Prayforme. Again, that’s FamilyLife.com/Prayforme and tell us how we can pray. And again, we are not kidding, Dave and I have a prayer team specifically dedicated to praying for our listeners, and I pray for some of these while I’m on my walks with God, I just pray. I will pray for you. And Dave, you always fast on Fridays and that’s when you pray.

Dave (15:31):

Yeah, I take the whole day and instead of eating food, I’m praying and I’m praying for my family, but I’m also praying for you and your family. And isn’t that a great thing to know that someone’s praying for you?

Ann (15:42):

Yes.

Dave (15:42):

And if it’s not, Ann and I praying for you, someone from our small prayer team will pray for you by name. We love to do it. So go to FamilyLife.com/Prayforme and submit your requests. And I mean do it right now. We would love to pray for you today.

Ann (16:02):

Before we end, I want to hit what submission is not. Because I had a woman in her fifties just two weeks ago come up and say to me, I got this submission thing all wrong. I grew up in the church, and I didn’t think I should ever go against anything my husband said. And so I just stuffed everything inside—a little bit what you were saying, Brittany—and I would just go off to the side and think, “That’s dumb. That’s ridiculous. But I would do it in a rebellious spirit.” So what would you say is not biblical submission?

Arianysis (16:37):

When you’re talking about that it made me think of the 1 Peter passage—

Ann (16:42):

Yes.

Arianysis (16:43):

—when it’s talking about wives and husbands and it says, “Likewise, wives, be subject to,” again, “your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external” and all of it goes into the adoring and all of that. But most specifically down in verse six, well five and six, “by submitting to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening.”

Ann (17:20):

Oh, I haven’t really picked up on that last part.

Arianysis (17:22):

Yeah. So I think that what submission is not, is not abuse. And I think we need to be very clear on that. I think that unfortunately this word of submission has been used as a weapon against women to oppress or to bring down or to bring shame or to shut up and be quiet, and you don’t have a say. That’s not at all what the Lord is saying. First of all, if you are in an abusive relationship, you need to tell somebody. And that’s—

Ann (17:54):

And get safe.

Arianysis (17:54):

And get safe. Tell somebody, get safe. That is not what God is telling you in terms of being submissive. That is not. Because as we read in Ephesians 5, the word that God has for the husband of presenting her clean and pure without a blemish to love her as his own body, all of that is the husband creating an environment where the woman feels safe and secure to be able to submit. And so if that is not there, it is a frightening thing. And what I hope that you hear in that is the mercy and grace of God in that because he’s acknowledging that where my perfect plan and how I have ordained, how I have constructed and ordained what the role of men and wife is supposed to be, wherever that is perverted, it is a frightening thing. And God acknowledges that. Right? And so even in this passage where it says where Sarah referred to Abraham as lord, that goes back to Genesis 18. And that is first of all, which is just a whole nother sermon. It’s a whole nother topic, she says. So Sarah laughed to herself saying, “After I am worn out and my lord is old, shall I have pleasure?” It says that she said this to herself, meaning that she referred to her husband as lord in her heart. So wife, how are you referring to your husband in your heart when you’re silent and you’re on your own? So there’s that part, but also—

Ann (19:21):

which right there, just that alone.

Arianysis (19:22):

Yes.

Ann (19:23):

What are your thoughts and what are you thinking about your husband?

Arianysis (19:27):

Because when they’re leading, all we’re doing is thinking “You did this wrong. You did this wrong. You did this wrong.” And we’re just there to point out what they did wrong.

Ann (19:33):

And you might not even say it, but they can tell by your way of being.

Arianysis:

Exactly.

Brittany:

Absolutely.

Ann:

They feel it.

Arianysis:

Yeah. And so with submission, there’s honor.

Ann:

Do you know what changes a husband?

Arianysis:

So much.

Ann:

This!

Arianysis (19:45):

Yes.

Ann (19:45):

When we honor them, bless them, we speak kindly to them and lift them up, they want to be a good man.

Arianysis (19:55):

So here’s the kicker, you know when she says this? Just a couple of chapters before he gave her to the Egyptian King, to the Pharaoh, right before this. He also right before this in chapter 16, slept with Hagar. And not only that, but the next chapters he gives her to another king. He does it again, putting her in danger. That is fearful. That is frightening. That is there. But yet he says, “Don’t fear what is frightening.” And that’s where the submitting, it’s unto the Lord. And so it is frightening. It is scary. It is scary to submit to a fallen, broken, undeserving man. It is because sin entered this world. But like Ephesians says, we are submitting unto the Lord and so we serve a greater God. And if there’s anybody who is jealous of us, protecting of us, who loves us it is God. And so what’s submission is not, it’s not abuse.

Ann (20:58):

And it’s not following your husband into sin.

Arianysis:

That’s abuse.

Ann:

Any kind of sin, yes, that’s abusive. God doesn’t want us to follow into that, but what a great way to end. It reminds me too of the power we have as women; that God has given us. What an incredible role that He has given us. It’s this beautiful gift that He’s given us as well.

Arianysis (21:26):

You asked why there’s joy in this for me. Now, this is my experience. I can say because I have a husband who has created that space for me and all of that and submits himself to the Lord. Again, there’s mutual submission. There’s submission here, submits himself to the Lord. I have seen so much of my life be restored.

(21:49):

And be redeemed through—the Lord does it through Ike. There’s so many things about my past, my traumatic experiences, things that I have gone through in my life that the Lord has then redeemed and rewritten, and I have been able to see beauty in just even the most minuscule of details that the Lord has decided, you know what? I’m going to redeem this detail for you. And it’s through Ike that God has done that. So that’s where a lot of my joy comes from because I am literally seeing the Lord rewrite my history in my obedience and submission to my husband and his submission to the Lord.

Ann (22:29):

I would add that on as well as Dave has done that for me. Nobody believes in me, speaks more highly of me, pushes me into things that I don’t think that I can do, and I want to be on his team. I want to be with him. He has brought out the very best in me. And so there’s that beauty of wanting to be the woman that God made me to be. And it all starts there. It begins with our walk with Jesus and Brittany, you’re shaking your head. What are you thinking as we close?

Brittany (22:59):

Absolutely. I think that’s the perfect ending as you’re saying, that Rechab is the one. He is the one who sees me the most and who’s pushing me and challenging me and following him in the things that everyone else might say it’s crazy, but I’m like, “I know the Lord told you to do that, so we’re walking in it. Let’s go. Here we go.” We’ve had so many of those moments where it’s like everyone else is thinking we’re crazy. This seems crazy, but we heard from the Lord and I’m following him.

Ann:

Yeah, so good.

Dave (23:31):

Okay, guys, we’ve got a quick question. How would you honestly rate your marriage on a scale of one to ten? That’s a scary thing. I don’t even want to ask you to do it because it doesn’t always go well but—

Ann (23:44):

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Dave (23:55):

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Ann (24:16):

Wow! That’s really cool, isn’t it? We’ve been doing this for the last 40 years and we’ve seen so many marriages impacted for the glory of God and the health of relationships, and we want to see that for you too.

Dave (24:29):

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Ann (24:47):

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