How to Love Your Spouse When It’s Hard—and You’re Both Over It: Jon and Quina Aragon

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson – Web Version Transcript

This content has been generated by an artificial intelligence language model. While we strive for accuracy and quality, please note that the information provided will most likely not be entirely error-free or up-to-date. We recommend independently verifying the content with the originally-released audio. This transcript is provided for your personal use and general information purposes only. References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the use or interpretation of this content.

How to Love Your Spouse When It’s Hard—and You’re Both Over It

Guests:Cheryl Shumake, Jon and Quina Aragon

From the series:Does God Love Me? When Life Makes You Wonder (Day 2 of 2)

Air date:September 15, 2026

Jon (00:04):

I’m often thinking about the privilege I have to participate in the parts of Quina’s story that God’s redeeming. Okay, God, what role are you calling me to play today? Now the whole, did I take out the trash? It’s old, right? But it’s true in that I’m able to do something practical that shows that I love and care for my lovely bride. And I’m being entrusted with one of God’s daughters.

Dave (00:42):

Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Dave Wilson.

Ann (00:48):

And I’m Ann Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave (00:59):

So as we’ve shared before, we’re out this week, but our good friend Cheryl Shumake is currently sitting in and bringing great conversations that inspire you to act.

Ann (01:09):

She sure is. So check out this discussion with Jon and Quina Aragon, and I’m sure it’s going to be good.

Cheryl (01:20):

I want to talk about your understanding of God’s love. And can you tell us about your favorite meditation from your book?

Quina (01:31):

We know the plot. The more familiar we get with the Scripture’s overarching story from Genesis to Revelation, which my book covers. It’s to get you familiar. It’s a biblical theology of love. So it’s to get you familiar with the story of Scripture and to get you to start asking questions about your life story. So there’s this sort of marriage of story work that is seeing your life as a story, and particularly the places of great brokenness and woundedness as the areas where God’s glory wants to particularly shine. And so being willing to engage those chapters that you don’t want to engage—the ones that are embarrassing, the ones that are filled with shame, the ones that are filled with sorrow and great pain—and trusting that because I’m getting more familiar with the story, the scripture story, that my story is in some way going to become an echo of that great story.

(02:30):

Or in some way, the story of scripture is embedded into mine. So then you’re looking for clues of redemption. So my favorite meditation is somewhere in the book, but it’s at the part in the scripture story where Jerusalem has been destroyed by Babylon.

(02:48):

And the prophet Jeremiah has been prophesying way ahead of time, letting them know, “Hey—”

Cheryl (02:54):

All of these other prophets are lying to you. This is what’s going to happen.

Quina (02:55):

Yeah, “you need to repent.” And he has the displeasure of having to see the destruction of all of these, I don’t want to say symbols, but all of these places of God’s presence. The temple is destroyed and so on. And so when you’re reading the Book of Lamentations—that’s the meditation is on the Book of Lamentations—

(03:23):

—it’s this prophet Jeremiah, the weeping prophet, circling around the city of Jerusalem and saying, almost sounding like a broken record, saying everything he’s seeing and lamenting over it. Man, the children are starving. The women have gone through this and so on. And he’s repeating himself. And I think in real life, when we’re doing community with each other, sometimes we get really uncomfortable with someone who feels the need to repeat. And it really hurt how my husband left or how it really hurt when my parents did da, da, da, da. And you’re like, “Man, shouldn’t you be over that? Shouldn’t you get over that?” And yet we see in scripture, Jeremiah circling around this Jerusalem destroyed and repeating himself like a broken record. And in the middle is the famous verse that we all know that the steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His faithfulness is new every morning and so on.

(04:14):

And it’s this belief that there are subplots in our lives or the mini novellas within our grand epic of our lives that sometimes remain unresolved even to the point of when we die.

(04:29):

There are prayers that we don’t see answered. There are conversations that we’re going to wish we still had and then we pass away. And so there are subplots—relationships that dissolve and so on that remain unresolved—but because we know that what the big plot is—that God is redeeming the world to Himself through His Son, Jesus Christ, and that all will be made new again, that resurrection is coming because I trust in that greater story and the character of God, which is that his love never ceases—then that means that if God’s love hasn’t ended, then neither has my story.

Cheryl (05:08):

Yeah. I love that. I always say, if God isn’t finished, then I’m not done. And He says He’s perfecting us until the day of Jesus Christ. So we are always in the process. One part of my story is that I have a affiliation with crushed roses because that is what God said He was going to do with my life. He said, “I am going to make your rose before my throne, but roses smell good best when they’re crushed.”

Quina:

Wow.

Jon (05:36):

It’s often through the crushing. It’s often through the dark night of the soul where God is deeply, deeply interested in bringing redemption and glory because it’s the very place where the kingdom of darkness and all those who participate with that try to stifle the glory in which He intends to reveal in all of us. So yeah, I think that’s well said.

Cheryl (06:02):

How does that work to reveal His love?

Quina (06:06):

Yeah. I think of our daughter’s in karate, so we think she’s quite good, but we are obviously biased. But she’s quite good. But she doesn’t love the sparring aspect. She loves the forms. There’s things that she really thrives. And that’s pretty normal. You like some parts of whatever sport you’re playing. But the sparring, having to fight these girls that are taller than her, bigger than, not fun, but she was willing to fight this past weekend. And she got a pretty bad knock on one of the fights and just came running to me crying and I just held her. And I think in that I see this image of when you ask about how do we experience the love of God though in that, it’s like, why did you make me go through this fight? Why are you making me spar? Why are you encouraging me to have to do hard things or have to endure blows that,

(07:06):

I’m not asking for this. I like to stay at home and watch cartoons.

Cheryl (07:11):

I’ll show up on game day and win, but I want to go, right?

Quina (07:15):

I want to do things I’m good at. So why are you making me do things that I’m not the best at? And we have our reasons as parents that we understand and things that we, maybe explained to her in bits and pieces, but there’s a degree to which she’s just not going to understand that until she’s older and perhaps has her own kids or just until she’s older and sees the benefit of the suffering and the training that she’s enduring right now. But where she’s experiencing the love is, well, various ways, but for sure in that when she got that bad knock, it was just the withness, the being held by mom or Papi, being held by her parents and saying, “I’m so proud of you. Way to get in there. It’s okay. Let’s breathe. I’m with you. I’m with you. That’s all right. Let it out.

(08:03):

Let it cry.”

(08:05):

That type of thing that I think God does for me. So for me, it was having a disease and going through various surgeries and all of this. But for me, one of the more painful things has been the loss of friendship. And you mentioned earlier, what do you do when you lose your community? And we’ve experienced degrees of that. And so where I can struggle with that sense of abandonment and like, man, is there something wrong with me or what’s going on? I remember my friend Ruth, I called her one day. I was grieving the loss of a friendship that had happened years before, but for whatever reason that morning, I just really felt it. And I called her and I just asked, “Can you pray for me?” And she of course prayed for me. And then she just gave space of silence of, “Lord, is there anything you are saying to Quina in this moment?” And almost as clear as day in my heart, I just heard, “But I will never leave you or forsake you.” And how many times have we read that verse?

(09:09):

I will never leave you or forsake you. But it was this tonality of God that, “But I, me though, I would never do that to you.” And that’s when, for me, it’s so important to be in God’s Word

(09:27):

Every single day, as much as you possibly can, to abide in His Word and His Word in you. Because when things get rough like that and when you’re just desperate and you just feel like you’re at the end of yourself, it’s that those scriptures, as the Scripture says, that it’s living and active. God’s Word is living and active. That it becomes so specifically applied to you and your story that you’re like, “Now I’ll never forget that promise.”

Cheryl (09:56):

But how does that work in a relationship with your spouse, especially when you are struggling? How have you found your story being anchored in God’s story helping you love this person, especially when you might be having a difficult challenge with them?

Quina (10:14):

Jon’s better at answering this one. I look up to him in this one.

Cheryl:

Okay.

Jon (10:22):

I mean, I think you mentioned it before when you mentioned Ephesians. And you see this throughout Paul’s letters, but he lays out the indicatives and then the imperatives.

(10:34):

And I think it’s the incredible responsibility and privilege that those of us who are married have to participate in the story that God is writing for our spouses and reframing it in that way so that I’m invited as a conduit of God’s grace in my spouse’s life. Now, that sounds nice and pretty, but to your point, when we start getting into the day-to-day real life, in the moment, it’s so, so crucial to ask for the Spirit’s help when the emotions are high, when our nervous systems feel what they’re feeling and being reminded of the call that I have and the call that Quina has to love one another. So I think in practice, I’m often thinking about the privilege I have to participate in the parts of Quina’s story that God’s redeeming. Okay, God, what role are you calling me to play today in that?

(11:45):

In a very practical way. Now the whole, did I take out the trash? It’s old, right? But it’s true in that I’m able to do something practical that shows that I love and care for my lovely bride. And I’m being entrusted with one of God’s daughters. Oh my goodness. And as parents, we get this too. God help the man who will marry our daughter one day, which is why she’s in karate. But I think about if I have this holy protection over my daughter, how much more does God have for my bride?

(12:26):

And to be entrusted to participate in how God is weaving the stories together. And as life happens and in the many crucibles of life that we’ve gone through and the many contours of our hearts that have been impacted and affected by circumstance and trials, okay, Lord, I get to participate in something that you’ve called me to redeem. And in the ways that will have generational impact for our daughter and the generations to come or those who are in our proximity. But yeah, I think practically asking for the Spirit’s help, spending time in God’s Word, how it says in Proverbs, be like the ant O, you sluggard. And being able to pull from passages and beautiful truths because there’ll be seasons will be hard and difficult. So storing up God’s Word in our heart is so, so crucial. But I think that’s a way to approach it.

Dave (13:34):

If it’s not on the calendar, it doesn’t happen.

Ann (13:38):

For sure.

Dave (13:39):

And that includes your marriage. Between work and family, your relationship can quietly end up last on the list. It’s happened to us many times. So Weekend to Remember® is a chance to put your marriage first, a getaway built to help you slow down, reconnect and focus on each other.

Ann (13:59):

And now through the 21st, registrations are half off. All you have to do is visit FamilyLifeToday.com, click on the banner to schedule your time before the sale ends. And all you have to do is use promo code Save50. That’s save five zero.

Cheryl (14:21):

How do we grow to the point where we can embody the love of God? Not just embrace but embody it.

Quina (14:29):

Yeah. I think of it as just this brick-by-brick, day-to-day interactions. I think sometimes we think, man, if I go to this big conference, then my marriage will be. And God can work in the big for sure. If we just get this vacation, then we’ll be good. But I think it’s just the little by little, little day by day interactions that you have with each other of what is a way that I can show kindness to my spouse right now? How do I live? I was thinking of 1 Peter 3, husbands dwell with your wives in an understanding way so that your prayers aren’t hindered. So God very much cares about our horizontal relationships and how we’re treating each other because that impacts our vertical relationship with him. And so I just think it’s those day-to-day interactions. And if you’re living in a way that you’re hoping that this big mountaintop experience is going to be the thing that causes lasting transformation, then you’re missing out on the beauty and the glory of the mundane of the changing of diapers and the taking out of the trash and showing kindness in those moments.

(15:46):

When that is the regular current or flow of the relationship, when, not if, but when conflicts and disagreements and wounding happens, you are able, I think, by the spirit’s power to take a step back and go, “Wait, wait, wait. We’re on the same team. You love me and I love you. And let’s just remind ourselves that for a moment. Let’s look at those day-to-day, brick-by-brick interactions and remind ourselves we have been for each other and we are for each other. We are experiencing something difficult right now, but can we agree on that first?” And kind of moving on from there. And so every marriage is different, but I really do think it’s just those little-by-little interactions.

Cheryl (16:32):

Yeah. Jon, would you like to add something to that?

Jon (16:34):

Yeah. I was thinking there’s two things come to mind, just practical things for those who are listening. Things we’ve done in our marriage where there’s been moments of disagreement or heightened emotions. We’ll often think who will die first in the conversation.

(16:56):

And it’s this dying to self, dying to preference, dying to winning the argument for the sake of. So just some practical things there. And then as we’ve both done, I’ve gotten incredible amount of guidance and wisdom from older couples. We’ve developed language around when there has been great injury or harm because we will and have harmed each other using language like, “I’m inviting you to see me in this moment.” And especially in moments of great contention, that’s for us and I’m sure for each marriage, there’s different language that’s used, but it’s a reminder for us to say, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. There’s incredible vulnerability happening right here.” So that in speaking to husbands, when our brides come to us and raise a concern, that can often feel like an attack to our manhood or whatever it may be. But I would invite us to be reminded that the incredible courage that’s being exercised in that moment and the vulnerability and the image I often use is as if our brides speaking to husbands, they have their heart out.

(18:22):

It’s shaky. It’s bloody and it needs repair. And they’re just saying whatever they’re saying, but they’re just saying, “I’m inviting you to see me.”

(18:34):

And often our overcorrection or our language can cause more injury than good.

Cheryl (18:43):

And all of this language is very much so couched in God’s love. But there are people out there who don’t know God’s love. God’s love is available to all, but it’s only accessible through the blood of Jesus Christ. So can you talk to the person who is like, “I want to know His love first for me, and then maybe I can extend it to someone else, but I don’t know that.”

Quina (19:09):

Yeah. I would just share part of my story. So I think of the woman at the well in, was it John 4?

Cheryl (19:16):

Yes.

Quina (19:17):

It’s this experience of come see a man who told me all about myself, who knew everything about me. And she’s able to do it not from this place of shame, but from this place of excitement, this place of healing. And so for me, I would say, come see for yourself, come read the Scriptures. Feel free to use my book but come see what God’s Word has to say and how it has great bearing. I think for me, first of all, I thought the Bible was all in King James English when I was a teenager. So I thought I wasn’t going to understand it anyway. I’m not going to understand that, so I’m not going to read it. So one, there are wonderful translations available that are English that we can understand. And it’s much more relevant than we think.

(20:09):

I remember for me as a teenager, all I knew was that I now have reference to the Book of Ecclesiastes that everything is meaningless. It doesn’t matter if you live or you’re wise. If you’re rich or poor, you die anyway. And I was wrestling with that thought as a teenager and going, “Well, what’s the point then?” And I didn’t know anything about Old Testament, New Testament, chapter, verse. I couldn’t tell you anything about that. All I knew is that my aunt and uncle would send me a Bible all the time. And so I’ve opened one of my dusty Bibles in the middle and it was Psalm 69. Again, didn’t know the context, who wrote it, how it pointed to Jesus. Didn’t know any of that. All I knew was that the language, I can relate to that. Save me. I’m drowning. There’s more enemies than hair on my head.

(21:04):

Answer me with your sure salvation. Basically this lament. I’m like, “That’s how I feel.” I didn’t know that one, we could talk to God like that, that there’s language like that, that there’s words for this. And that this is a point of access for me to go, “I’m curious now. I want to know more. Tell me more about this God who apparently allows us to be messy with Him and welcomes us.” And that was just the beginning. So start wherever you’re at. Call out to God, call out to Jesus, ask Him to reveal Himself and then crack open the nearest Bible you have and begin reading.

Cheryl (21:46):

Yeah. Thank you for saying the part about we can be messy with Him. We’re afraid of our messes, but God isn’t. He steps right in the middle of them, and He makes beauty from ashes. So invite Him into those places. Jon, would you pray for the person who’s like, “Okay, I am listening to you. I want to take a leap of faith and trust my life over to this love that you’re talking to me about.” Would you pray for them, just a prayer of salvation? And then also pray for the person who may be struggling as well.

Jon (22:18):

Lord, we just left up to you the son or daughter right now who has been searching for so long in all the wrong places for their value, their identity, their worth, Lord. Lord, wherever they may find themselves and however they have been wounded by others in this world, Father, I pray that your Spirit would just cover them even now. Lord, we just pray for their salvation, that they would be reminded that in You they can experience the fullness of life. That they’re reminded that through Your Son and through His sacrifice on the cross that we now have communion with You. Would you remind that person that is without hope or living in despair that You specialize in resurrections, lowercase r resurrections and the hope that we have that we will be resurrected with You when You come back. So would You bring salvation and would You bring comfort and hope for those who need it?

(23:27):

In Jesus’ name. Amen.

Cheryl (23:29):

Amen. Well, thank you, Jon and Quina. I’m going to take my glasses off because Marcus had said to me, “Oh, you might cry.”

(23:40):

Any prayer that touches the heart of my Daddy, I’m like, “Yes.” Thank you so much for being here with me and being my first guest. I so appreciate this conversation. I know we talked about your book before. I’m going to be buying a few and giving them away to at least our children who are married and getting married. So at the very least, I think if they can be anchored in the love of God, like we said before, then they will find themselves being able to love their spouses and their children in such a revolutionary way as to set their family free in ways they can only imagine.

Jon and Quina (24:18):

Yeah.

Cheryl (24:19):

So thank you so very much.

Ann (24:23):

I don’t know about you, but I really enjoy listening to Jon and Quina and I’m super grateful for the encouragement that was shared today.

Dave (24:30):

Hey, for those listening, if you’re interested in getting their book, Love Has a Story, head over to FamilyLifeToday.com, click on the link in the show notes, and it takes you right to that resource.

Ann (24:45):

FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife®, a Cru® ministry; 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most. I

If you’ve benefited from the FamilyLife Today transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs of producing them and making them available online?

Copyright © 2026 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.

www.FamilyLife.com