Parent Guilt–When Adult Kids Stray: Jim Burns

Episode Transcript

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Parent Guilt—When Adult Kids Stray

Guest:Jim Burns

From the series:Child Walks Away (Day 1 of 3)

Air date:November 9, 2026

Jim (00:04):

A lot of our adult kids who are straying, what they don’t want us is blabbing at every place. Exactly. I don’t think we put it on the social media feed. Please pray for Cindy. She just moved in with her boyfriend. I don’t think you do that. I think we have to make sure, is this going to help my relationship with my adult child? But at the same time, the adult child needs to know that I’m building my own circle of support that’s going to have to help me through this process because I want to be a better parent.

Ann (00:29):

Exactly.

Jim (00:29):

And you can be a good parent with a child who’s violating values and straying from faith and not agree with them. This is the thing. People think, well, should I shun my child because they’re doing this ungodly thing? And I’m saying, no, stay in the story. But for us to stay in the story, we need the help.

Ann (00:52):

Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave (00:58):

And I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

We’ve got Jim Burns in the studio talking. Look at this title, When Your Adult Child Strays: Trading Heartache for Hope. Boom; sounds like a fun day.

Ann (01:20):

Every listener just said, wait, wait, wait, say it again. We’re talking about adult children that stray. This is a huge topic. When we’re talking to friends, this is something that people are like, tell me, help me, give me answers and hope. So we’ve got the expert.

Dave (01:37):

Yeah. Jim Burns, it’s been decades—

Jim (01:40):

It’s been a long time.

Dave (01:40):

—since you’ve been on here.

Jim (01:41):

Yeah. Great to be with you though.

Dave (01:42):

Yeah. Well, the topic we’re talking about, you’re going to be on the Love Like You Mean It® cruise this year.

Ann:

—talking about this.

Jim (01:46):

Yeah, excited to be there.

Dave (01:47):

Yeah, and years ago, Bob Lepine and Ann and I did a workshop for adult parents of adult kids. Wow. And it wasn’t really when they stray. It was just like, let’s talk about how do you, which is obviously a big topic.

Ann (01:59):

You’ve written about that too.

Jim:

Yes.

Dave (02:00):

You’ve written about everything. I mean, you got so many books about everything. But let me tell you this. First of all, we got there and they were like, we need a bigger room because there’s so many people. So we got a bigger room.

Ann:

That have signed up.

Dave:

And then we did an open mic at the end, Q&A, and you know what we heard. It was, well, you said right here, heartache. And so why’d you decide to write about that?

Jim (02:21):

Well, I actually wrote only out of the need because I wrote a book called When Your Adult Child Strays this time, but the time before I was just talking about Doing Life With Your Adult Children: Keep Your Mouth Shut & The Welcome Mat Out. That pretty much tells you the whole story.

Dave (02:33):

You know how many times I’ve used that line? Thousands of times.

Ann (02:36):

We have given that book to so many people.

Jim (02:38):

Well, what happened was there was only six pages on When Your Adult Child Strays, but all the questions, I didn’t realize I would spend the rest of my life answering questions with deep heartache, deep confusion, estrangement, deconstruction of their faith, violating values, disagreements on politics. I mean, anything. So when you do the open mic, people are just willing to talk about it too. And then some whisper because they feel so much shame and pain. But the pain is deep and they wear it everywhere and it affects their marriages, it affects their life, it affects their spiritual life. It’s the topic that they can’t get past. And so I finally said, “You know what? It is time to face this.” And I didn’t really want to because I like to write fun books and this isn’t a fun book. This is maybe one of the harder books because it has a connection to the soul.

(03:28):

And Kathy and I, we don’t think we did it all right. We have three daughters, so of course we’ve had no hormones or drama in our life, of course.

Dave:

Yeah, none. Zero.

Jim:

But our kids bumped. They came back. They’re great kids now. So we don’t have that deep pain, but we also, we cancel each other’s votes out. One goes to a church that we wouldn’t go to, those kind of things. So we get frustrated, but we’ve had to learn how to deal with it. And when they started violating some of our values straying from our faith, that became very disturbing to us.

Dave (03:58):

Yeah. And do you think it’s more prevalent today than it was 20 years ago or has it always been?

Jim (04:03):

I think it is because when you look at statistics, you see more kids are walking away. For example, Gen Z, two amazing tracks. One is Gen Z’s coming back to church. I mean, I’m so excited.

Ann:

Which is cool. Me too.

Jim:

That’s amazing. Same time, there’s twice as many atheists with Gen Z as even the millennials, which would be the next crowd. So you’re seeing both things happening at the same time, which a lot of times when there’s renewal and revival, that does happen to be honest with you. But in this case, I focused on the ones who were kind of walking away, straying. Some of them do it very strong and very deliberate and they’re very angry or they’re angry at the church, they’re angry at their parents and others just sort of drift away.

Ann (04:41):

Yeah. I think especially after COVID, people just got out of the habit of going to church and that just became a habit. And I’ve talked to so many parents, even adults that aren’t going back.

Jim (04:54):

No, I know. There’s a very close person in my life. He goes, “It’s just so much more comfortable. Remember we could sit and watch and we’d drink coffee and I have my little slippers and I’m doing that.” I said, “Well, don’t you miss the community?” He said, “That’s what I miss.” And we see kids who are straying from their faith, adult kids, they’re coming back because of community. Dave, no offense, it’s not the preaching all the time. It’s the community.

Dave (05:16):

No, it’s the preaching, Jim. It’s always the preaching.

Jim (05:19):

I’m there for preaching, but I’m an old guy. But they come back for that community. But no, COVID hurt us and many churches have not bounced back somehow.

Ann (05:29):

And Jim, you talk to all these parents. If you go deeper, what are they saying about themselves?

Jim (05:34):

Yeah. Well, I think they feel a lot of shame. They say, “If only we would’ve prayed more as a family, if only we would’ve let the kids go to that mission trip instead of the vacation, if only.” And they play the if only game, and a lot of it is blaming themselves. And parents are not defined by their adult kids’ poor choices.

Ann (05:53):

It’s so hard not to do that though.

Jim (05:54):

Oh, I know. I know. And Kathy and I did that. When our kids did this little bump, we were like, “Oh wow, we should have prayed more.”

Ann (06:01):

What did we do wrong?

Jim (06:02):

We actually prayed and it still didn’t. There was still this moment, right? But they feel so much guilt upon themselves, and they lay it on themselves. And some people don’t feel comfortable talking. We’re talking about open mic. Well, they will. They’re at an event, but some suffer in silence and think they’re the only people in the church who have kids who have strayed when in fact it’s frankly almost a majority have a kid who has somehow violated their values.

Ann (06:27):

Wow, that’s a lot.

Dave (06:28):

I mean, so those parents that are wrestling with it maybe in silence, what do you encourage them to do? Do they need to talk?

Jim (06:36):

They do. And in the book, I talk about their circle of support. So circle of support, that doesn’t just happen. You have to lean into that.

Dave:

You got to be intentional.

Jim:

Like for Kathy and I, we weren’t raised in the church, so we didn’t have the whole Christian background stuff going. And so we knew pretty immediately we needed mentors. We needed mentors for our marriage. We needed mentors for parenting. We need mentors for our spiritual life, whatever. So we still have those. And I was thinking about Terry and Sharon the other day who are some mentors of us, and they have taught us how to be parents of adult children, and they’ve taught us how to be really good grandparents. And you know what? They don’t even say, “Oh, we’re Jim and Kathy’s mentors.” We just needed that, but we need peer support. So I’ve been in a small group for 25 years, same small group.

Dave (07:19):

Yeah, I read it in the book and I’m like, “We’re clones. I have a group—

Jim (07:22):

Do you?

Dave (07:22):

—it’s been that many years too, and they are my life.”

Jim (07:25):

No, they are. I’m a better husband, better father. I’m sure you are too. But that’s the point. We need counsel. The Bible says very clearly, where there is no counsel, the people fall. In the multitude of counselors, there is safety. And for us, we have found that the church is a part of our circle of support. So our church service last week, it was just awesome. And I hadn’t seen my daughter there, and we usually go to the same service. We have five services. And I called her and said, “Hey, you got to go. It’s just amazing.” She goes, “I was there.” “I didn’t see you.” But the point being is that’s a place for us to have community. Kathy walked out and she said, “I just love the people we talked to today. We love the service. We love the message. We love the worship.” So that is a part of our circle of support.

(08:05):

What we did was we kind of had to point out we need the circle of support if we’re going to get through it. So when our daughter, who’s now amazing, but during a rougher spot, was I going to go tell my small group of guys, wow, she’s messing up because I’m their kind of mentor when it comes to parenting. They’ve read my books. And no, I did. Guess what I got? I got grace and love and understanding and that happened to my son and hang in there and what can we pray for you for?

(08:35):

Most people don’t have that. 12.5% of the population—this just came out—say that they don’t have one best friend. So we need people around us.

Dave (08:44):

Especially men.

Ann (08:45):

Dave, I remember you going to a pheasant hunt and you came back home, you had all these men who a lot of them had adult kids, adult sons, but I remember you saying, “Wow, that was the most rich time.”

Dave (09:00):

And by the way, these were men I didn’t know. I’ve got my guys in Detroit. We’ve sort of raised our kids together, but these are guys that were donors to FamilyLife. And so it was a Dennis Rainey pheasant hunt. I’m not a hunter, so I’m like, what am I doing? And it was just a weekend, but on Saturday night or Friday night after we sort of got to know each other says, let’s just talk. And I think 85 to 90% of the room had adult children issues and they were weeping. And it was so beautiful to watch. We’ve been together 48 hours and there’s a bond here.

Ann:

—and vulnerability.

Dave:

And praying over them and staying in touch after. But that community piece is so needed. So many don’t have it. They walk alone.

Jim (09:48):

No, you’re right. We need to share our weaknesses. And again, you and I have, we’re talking about a great support system and that has helped us. I’m a better person for being in that, but a lot of people don’t have that support system. And it doesn’t have to be a group of so many men or so many women, but what we have to figure out is how do we develop that? And I think the church is a good place to start. I really do, because I think the church today is healthier. The church today says we don’t have to act like we have it all together. And they’re doing life together and that’s what we need. When our kids stray, when our kids violate our values, it doesn’t change the kids. It changes us.

Ann (10:26):

But Jim, is there a violation there of our kids’ trusts when we share what’s going on? How do you navigate that as a parent?

Jim (10:31):

I think you have to be careful because what a lot of our adult kids who are straying, what they don’t want us is blabbing it every place. Exactly. I don’t think we put it on the social media feed, “Please pray for Cindy. She just moved in with her boyfriend.” I don’t think you do that. I really don’t.

Ann (10:47):

But you’re saying there’s a select group of people that you trust.

Jim (10:51):

Right. And eventually, even with our Becca, I said, “Hey, by the way, some of the struggles that you’re having, I actually went and talked to my guys about that, and I hope I trust them with my life.” And she goes, “I trust them with my life.” So she was grateful for that, to be honest. But I don’t think we should violate that by blabbing it to everybody. I really don’t. I think we have to make sure, is this going to help my relationship with my adult child? But at the same time, the adult child needs to know that I’m building my own circle of support that’s going to have to help me through this process because I want to be a better parent.

Ann (11:23):

Exactly.

Jim (11:23):

And you can be a good parent with a child who’s violating values and straying from faith and not agree with them. This is the thing. People think, well, should I shun my child because they’re doing this ungodly thing? And I’m saying, no, stay in the story. But for us to stay in the story, we need the help. Yeah.

Ann (11:45):

We’ve traveled around the world, and I’m always amazed that families around the world bring incredible joy and impact, but they also really struggle with the same issues. But families make a difference in the world. A family centered on Jesus impacts everyone.

Dave (12:02):

That’s why we do what we do. Every single day we’re trying to help marriages and families here, there, around the world, find Jesus as the center of their marriage and find hope. And then not just see their marriage transform but transform their neighborhood. And let me invite you to join us in this mission. What’s that mean? Pray for us. We need your prayers. But also, I don’t know if you know this, but this ministry is a donor-supported ministry. In other words, people give financially to make this happen, and we would love to have you as a partner.

Ann (12:34):

Because we can’t exist without you, without monthly partners reaching families for Jesus.

Dave (12:40):

So if you’d like to join, here’s all you need to do. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com, click on the donate button right there. And man, wouldn’t it be a joy to be a partner with you? You can help change the world.

Ann (12:56):

This is FamilyLife Today, and we’re talking to Jim Burns. Let’s get back to that conversation.

Dave (13:01):

What do you say to a parent whose child has—and by the way, define stray.

Jim (13:06):

Yeah.

Dave (13:07):

What do you mean stray?

Jim (13:08):

Well, it just means that they’re not living with our faith values or they’re not living with the same values and morals that we lived with. And so stray could mean they’ve made a hard right turn and they’re going totally against and that they’ve now changed their gender, changed all kinds of stuff. They’re smoking pot every day or they’re drug addicts or whatever it might be. They’re in prison. They could do terrible. Or it could mean just drifting. It really encompasses a lot, but it just means they’re not like it was when the kids were going to Sunday school.

Ann (13:39):

But I mean, I talked to so many friends and people, even kids living with their girlfriend, boyfriend, that’s such a common thing and it’s such an awkward place for parents to even say, “Oh yeah, they’re living together.” And you see this face of shame.

Jim (13:54):

No, no, it’s the shame. You’re right. What I say to people, like a woman said to me, her daughter had moved in with the boyfriend at 19, lived in California where we live, going to school in Georgia, and the shame and the guilt, and they’d flown out there and had this big conversation. And she said, “It’s all I think about. It’s all I talk about to her.” And I said, “Well, does she know what you believe?” “Yes. “”Does she know how you feel?” “Well, yes. Then you’re going to have to broaden the relationship because this relationship doesn’t sound like it’s going to work. So when it falls and fails, will she come to you as a safe person? She knows what you believe. She knows what you feel. She knows the pain that she’s causing you. You don’t have to keep being a one topic parent.

Ann (14:37):

You’ve said it one time. She doesn’t need to hear it every time you’re together.

Jim (14:40):

No, exactly. So she goes, “Well, what do I do with that?” I go, “Well, what does she like to do? She likes to shop,” which I laughed because I have three daughters, so for some reason they liked it too. I said, “Well, take her shopping. Don’t even bring it up at this point, at least in the preachy luxury way.” And she goes, “That is the hardest thing.” I said, “Well, I have scars on my tongue.”

Ann (14:59):

I laughed so hard when I read that in your book.

Jim (15:01):

I’ve had to bite my tongue many times, but that’s what you do.

Ann:

All of us have.

Jim:

Yeah. We don’t have to walk on eggshells. And I think some parents hear that and they think, oh, well then, we can’t be ourselves. No, you can be yourselves, but don’t lay that on them at this point because you want to be that welcoming, safe person. Who’s the safest person in the room? It’s the person who shows love. Jesus, led with love when it was a prostitute, when it was a tax collector. We don’t understand the tax collector, how bad that was today, but from the context of the scripture, Jesus still led with love. He didn’t compromise his values. So I believe it’s possible to not compromise your values, compromise your biblical values, and at the same time show a lot of love. And that means if they’re living with somebody and they have a baby, then you be the kind of grandma that’s amazing and you win them that way.

(15:51):

You’re not going to win them by saying you’re wrong and I’m right.

Dave (15:57):

I told you this your whole life.

Jim (15:57):

Exactly. And you probably are right. That’s just it. But don’t keep pushing that.

Ann (16:03):

Our kids are amazing. We’ve all made mistakes. Dave and I have made mistakes.

Dave:

Especially me.

Ann:

I want to say it so bad. I want to say it. I’m like, “Don’t you see I could help your whole life and to bind you?”

Dave (16:16):

I’m literally hitting her under the dinner table.

Ann (16:18):

And I’m not saying it. He can see like, “I want to say it.” We have this thought like this will change everything. Oh, mom, thank you. I’ve never heard you say that before.

Jim:

That’s so true.

Ann:

But that part of allowing God to have that, I mean, I love your principle number one in your book. You’re fired. Your role as the parent must change.

Jim (16:40):

Change. No, exactly.

Ann (16:41):

Man, that’s so true.

Dave (16:42):

Well, essentially when you’re talking about Jesus with tax collectors and sinners, I mean, it’s all over the place, but Luke 15, where He’s having a meal, and it’s this amazing passage about God’s heart for the lost sheep and lost son. But when I preach that, I say this, I go, “Do you realize that because they’re having a meal together, they liked Him? They knew He disagreed. They liked Him.” I’m like, “Do people like you? Non-Christians, far from God, do they like hanging around with you as a Christian? Probably not. They feel judged. Same thing with our kids. They know what we believe. Do they like being at our table or do they feel like it’s always the one topic parent and they’re going to come after me?

Jim (17:21):

No, you’re exactly right. And we didn’t have fun with our kids. I did my PhD in Traits of a Healthy Family, and one of the traits was on fun. And funny enough, I didn’t get it from Christian research. I got it from the secular world, and it was always one of the top things, playing together, having fun together. What I’ve said to people is sometimes it’s better instead of preaching at them and lecturing them, go on a fishing trip with the boys. Go on some kind of a fun trip with the girl and just enjoy, laugh, giggle, whatever, and it brings you back together.

Ann (17:55):

It’s bonding.

Jim (17:55):

It is. Then they feel more safe and they feel more open to doing something like that. Yeah.

Ann (18:02):

I remember talking to one of our guests and she was talking about her mom and she was straying. She was doing things wrong, but she said even in the midst of that, there was not one time that when my mom looked at me, she didn’t look at me with delight in her eyes.

(18:19):

I remember stopping right there and thinking that’s a big deal.

Jim (18:23):

Oh, that is.

Ann (18:24):

As a teenage girl, she still felt like my mom delights in me. I think that joy, that delight, our kids feel it when they’re around us.

Jim (18:34):

No, they do. You know what? I just got goosebumps. I don’t know if you can with your… I had bald head. I kind of felt the goosebumps because that is so critical. Delight. Show delight. Show the love. And it’s hard because you’re mad and you’re frustrated and you’re upset and you’re worried.

Ann:

You’re scared.

Jim:

Yeah, you’re scared for them. Playing this movie forward is not going to go well, things like that. The bottom line is this, when they’ve strayed and when they’ve fallen away from stuff, the bottom line is, do you still love me? That’s the question that each adult child is saying. That’s a question every child is saying.

Ann (19:05):

We all say that.

Jim (19:06):

Sure, sure. Do you still love me? And I think that probably, you were talking about the Luke 15 chapter, Dave, where the prodigal son is coming in and the father welcomed him and the son was probably saying, “Do you still love me?” Now notice in that story, because this is a part of the string with faith story too. He strayed from faith, definitely. Big, big, big, big, big. He’s feeding the pigs and he was Jewish. That’s not a good thing.

Dave (19:33):

That’s an adult son, yeah.

Jim (19:33):

Right. So he comes back, but the elder son is mad but notice what the father said. He said to the elder son, “All that I have is yours.” He didn’t change the consequences. The consequences, he’d already given his younger son the money. So he didn’t change the consequences, but he said, “The son of mine was lost and now he’s found.” So what we miss on that is tough love means you allow them to experience the circumstances in a negative way that they’ve lived without.

Ann:

The consequences.

Jim:

The consequences. Sure. But you allowed them to experience that, but you can still show love. I’m so sorry that I’m not going to give you any more money because I already gave you half my inheritance, but you’re my son and I love you. That’s how we bring people back, I think, much more than by telling them how wrong they are and how right we are.

Dave (20:21):

Yeah. Or keep giving them because we want them to love us. So you know what? I told you I wouldn’t give you any more money, but here’s more, hoping that you’ll change.

Ann (20:29):

Well, let’s talk about that a little bit.

Jim (20:30):

Well, you got to ask, are you enabling dependency on you or helping? Helping, you can help your kids. I mean, we just helped our daughter get into a house in a small way and how beautiful that was.

Ann:

We did the same thing.

Jim:

Yeah, you do that. Okay, that’s helping. But if we continue to make the payments as adults with her and her husband and the two grandkids, that’s enabling. I was talking with a guy whose son had a heroin problem, and this man was a very wealthy man. And he said, “My son, I’ve put something on his car, and I know where he goes, and he goes into Los Angeles by where we live, and that’s where he gets his drugs. And I don’t know how he pays for it because he doesn’t have a job.” I said, “Well, do you give him an allowance?” And he said, “Yeah, pretty good allowance.” I said, “Well, that’s where he’s getting his—you’re paying for his drugs.

(21:17):

And this man was almost violently angry at me for saying that. He said, “I am not buying his drugs.” And his wife kind of put her hand on his hand and kind of went, “Maybe we are.” Well, what happened was they were enabling this son by giving him so much money because the son was spending it on heroin. So what we have to understand is we’re not helping when we enable. If we enable our kids, they become entitled and there’s a failure to launch. When there’s a failure to launch, a lot of times kids who have a failure to launch also, we find that a lot of the failure to launchers are the strayers or the ones who are kind of falling away too, but they’re dependent on mom and dad. So that’s the other side of it. We were talking about one way, don’t give in, but then some of us just kind of keep enabling.

(22:02):

That doesn’t work. It doesn’t work if they’re addicted to drugs. It doesn’t work if they’re struggling with some immoral issue. We can’t keep enabling them.

Dave (22:12):

Yeah. I mean, that’s got to be one of the hardest things to do. I mean, change the locks on your door. If they are destroying your house and… I mean, how do you do that as a parent?

Ann:

So hard.

Jim:

No, it’s hard.

Dave:

You got to do it.

Ann (22:25):

That’s where you need community. You need people and wisdom.

Jim (22:26):

And you need counsel.

Ann:

Counseling, yes.

Jim:

Because you’ve got to learn, how will this make it better if I change the locks? To be honest, it gets so bad in some situations where you need to. They stole from you. They were coming in and doing things.

Ann (22:39):

Your life’s in danger.

Jim (22:39):

Right. Well, we talk about it in the book. We talk about some of the things when it’s really, really bad. With that, we have to make sure though that we’re getting the advice and counsel from people who know what they’re talking about because there’s some crazies out there. If you look at estrangement right now, 27% of the population has a family member who’s estranged. And today there’s a whole group of even people in therapy who are saying estrangement is a really good thing. Now, when there’s sexual abuse and all that, there has to be a break for a bit. Yeah.

Ann (23:08):

Jim, we’ve talked to so many people that are experiencing that, both the parental side where the parents aren’t allowed to see the grandkids or the kids, but also, we’re talking to the kids who are like, “I can’t be around my parents and they’re not allowed to be around my kids.” I know you’re seeing that all the time too.

Jim (23:24):

All the time. I would say every time I speak on it, somebody wanders up, and I always hope for the best. I’m in a group and I go, “Wait, these people don’t have these issues.” And then we see this at church too. We took our grandkids to church against their will, and we just thought that’s what the Lord was leading us to do. And I’m saying, “Well, maybe you need to listen harder because you probably need to honor your kids even though you don’t agree with them.” And that’s a tough one.

Dave (23:53):

Man, oh man, is that a great conversation with Jim Burns?

Ann (23:57):

He always brings incredible wisdom. I walk away thinking, “I need to do some things better.” Do you feel like that?

Dave (24:03):

This is a program you’re going to want to share with a lot of people, and we got two more days with him. And by the way, this book again is called When Your Adult Child Strays. You can get it at FamilyLifeToday.com. Just click on the link in the show notes. And guess what? Tomorrow we’re going to invite Ron Deal, who directs our blended ministry here at FamilyLife to join this conversation. So again, you don’t want to miss it.

Ann:

With Jim Burns.

Dave:

We’ll see you tomorrow.

Ann (24:24):

I don’t know about you, but I need parenting help, not just sometimes, but most of the time. So maybe you feel like that too, and we have resources to help you as a parent, and you can go to FamilyLife.com/ParentingHelp.

Dave (24:45):

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