How Phones Affect Marriage: The Tiny Screen Between You–Dave & Ann Wilson

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson – Web Version Transcript

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How Phones Affect Marriage: The Tiny Screen Between You

Guests:Dave and Ann Wilson

From the series:How Phones Affect Marriage: The Tiny Screen Between You

(Day 1 of 1)

Air date:September 25, 2026

Dave (00:04):

I found this week, I’m like, what am I doing scrolling through Facebook or Instagram looking for some funny reel or somebody talking theology or another home run? I mean, it’s just like, what a waste of time.

Ann (00:20):

But we’re all hooked to it.

Dave (00:21):

And you’re sitting over there doing the same thing. And so we’re in the same room, but we’re distracted. And after days, weeks, months of this, you’re like, we have drifted.

Ann (00:37):

Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave (00:44):

And I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

It’s just you and me in the studio today.

Ann (00:59):

Yes, it is.

Dave (01:00):

Well, it’s you and me—

Ann (01:00):

Me and my man.

Dave (01:02):

You and me and our cell phones. So let’s talk about the third person in our marriage.

Ann (01:08):

You mean your girlfriend, your other girlfriend?

Dave (01:10):

Go ahead. Tell our listeners and our watchers.

Ann (01:12):

Okay.

Dave (01:13):

We’re talking about these devices that we’ve got in our hand right now.

Ann (01:16):

In marriage. We’ve talked about them, but we haven’t necessarily talked about them in our marriage. And I’m just going to say, this has been a source of conflict for us over the years to the point where I started calling your phone your other girlfriend. We’ll be on the couch watching this movie and I want you to engage.

Dave (01:35):

You don’t need to get that specific.

Ann (01:36):

No, we’re engaging. This is so good. And I’m looking at you for your look of approval. Isn’t this so good? And you’re on your phone.

Dave (01:45):

You’re like, “Oh, you over there talking to your girlfriend?” I’m like—

Ann (01:48):

You’re missing the moment.

Dave (01:49):

I literally looked down for one second.

Ann (01:51):

No, no.

Dave (01:53):

Let me tell you.

Ann (01:53):

Because you watch it with it on your chest.

Dave (01:55):

I almost took a picture of you today driving to the studio because every time we get in the car, and I’m not exaggerating, this is 100%. We get in a car, I start driving, and I look over and you’re like—every time. I’m like, “What are you doing?” “Oh, I got to get all my email stuff.” It’s like you don’t even—

Ann:

That was for work.

Dave:

You’re not even in the car with me. It’s like my wife over there was, I’m going to call your boyfriend.

Ann (02:19):

I had already begun—

Dave (02:20):

Your own blue boyfriend or whatever color you got going now.

Ann (02:23):

I had already started working. That’s my work life right there. I’m working hard.

Dave (02:27):

Oh, there you go, whatever it is.

Ann (02:29):

But you’re right.

Dave (02:29):

It’s not me. I’m not your center of attention and I should be.

Ann (02:32):

You’re right. I get in the car because I’ve been busy. I can sit down for the first time.

Dave (02:36):

By the way, tell them how many times you lose your cell phone a day. I’ve counted. She’s up to 4.8 times a day every single day.

Ann (02:45):

This is called confession episode.

Dave (02:46):

You want to hear something funny.

Ann (02:48):

Oh no.

Dave (02:48):

We were doing a marriage conference in Arizona several years ago with three NFL couples. They’re just a small little intimate retreat at this house.

Ann (02:58):

Are you bragging?

Dave (02:59):

No, it was three quarterbacks. Anyway, and they’re wives. And so we’re driving to go have lunch together and Ann’s like, “Oh, I don’t know where my phone is.” So what’d you do? You did the find my—

Ann (03:11):

Yeah, I have an Apple watch so I can find my phone. And so I ding it and I hear it like ding, ding, ding, ding.

Dave (03:17):

It’s in the backseat so I go, “We’re good.”

Ann (03:19):

“We’re good. It’s in the car somewhere.”

Dave (03:21):

So we get to the restaurant, which it had to be four or five miles away. And she can’t find it in the back. And then the guy who’s getting ready to park our car goes, “Oh, hey, there’s a cell phone on the back bumper.” It made it all the way to the restaurant bouncing around on the bumper.

Ann (03:35):

It’s because Jesus loves me. He takes care of me. I had a little angel sitting back there holding my cell phone on the bumper.

Dave (03:42):

So you’re saying angels want us to have cell phones in our marriages? Is that what I just heard?

Ann (03:46):

I’m saying some of you—

Dave (03:48):

What are you saying?

Ann (03:49):

Some of you are thinking, “What are we doing today?” I think this is an important conversation to have in your marriage because it creates conflict. It creates separation. It creates a drift many times. And we can be resentful. We can tease about it or else we can just give up and we’re just not interacting with one another. So I think it’s a good conversation because it not only affects your marriage, but it affects your parenting too and your relationships with your friends.

Dave (04:15):

Yeah, and your kids have phones.

Ann (04:17):

Yes. And we are modeling to our kids. That’s probably why it’s worse for us now because our kids aren’t in the home.

Dave (04:24):

So let’s talk about cell phones, digital and marriage because we just did a marriage conference at our church in Michigan and we did a session on cell phones, which I’m like, how are we really going to spend a whole session on it? And when I walked around the lobby after, and by the way, we talked about sex in one of the sessions, cell phones and identity in your marriage. And the biggest response I heard was the cell phone talk. It’s like we really, really needed that. And so I mean, cell phones have become like an addiction. It’s like you can’t go anywhere without this thing in your hand. Do you feel like that when it’s not in your hand? Where is it? I can’t function. Because I feel like that.

Ann (05:06):

It’s when I get in the car that I’m like, “Oh, where’s my cell phone?”

Dave (05:10):

Well, it’s funny. Well, maybe this will be funny. I think it’ll be funny. There was a guy back in our history named Randy Stonehill. Some of you are old enough to remember Randy Stonehill. He was back in the ’70s with Larry Norman when Christian music just started. And he’s an acoustic guitar player, so I love this guy. We’ve seen him in concert many times. And he would always put on one of his albums like a funny song. He had one song called American Fast Food. What a stupid way to die. Dinky. He had one about TVs and he had one about smoking. It was called Lung Cancer. She’s working on lung cancer emphysema. And I thought I’m going to take Randy Stonehill’s song and make it about cell phones. So here it is. This is my version of a Stonehill song. And trust me, this is a ’60s feel.

(06:03):

You’re not even liking this, are you?

Ann (06:04):

I love it.

Dave (06:05):

Here we go. He went down to Verizon store and bought an iPhone 16. And don’t you know tomorrow he’ll be back for more because he really loves to hold that thing. Every time that he gets a call, his brain lights up with dopamine. That’s true. He just one step closer to a digital high and 1500 closer to broke. He’s been working on a phone addiction. Digital cancer. A marriage on the rocks. If he doesn’t get a handle on this digital tool, his family won’t endure the shot. He’s been working on A-D-D-I-C-T-I-O-N. You’re supposed to sing harmonies. A digital fever might be his end. A-D-D-I-C-T-I-O-N. Don’t let this phone destroy your den. You got to put the phone down. Put the phone down. I don’t know if that’s going to make it past the edits. That was pretty bad.

Ann (07:30):

I like that you’re looking at the camera the whole time. You’re such a showman.

Dave (07:34):

Anyway, it’s a fun, stupid little song about the truth is, and it is. When I put that little line in there about dopamine, talk about what happens to your brain.

Ann (07:45):

It lights up. I mean, it feels good. And it’s true. When we get on our phones, there’s this natural, we just settle in because we get dopamine hits. I thought it was interesting that our sons, when they started having kids, they started confronting you.

Dave (08:03):

Oh, thanks. Thanks. You’re just going to bring that up.

Ann (08:06):

I was going to say us, but it was like, yeah, it was you.

Dave (08:09):

What do you mean me?

Ann (08:10):

Because you would go over to their house and you’re on your phone and you have really changed. I feel like you don’t do that with them anymore.

Dave (08:18):

You think? We’ll talk about how you confront our sons about their phone use. We go over to their house and you’re in their face like, “Get off your phone.” I’m like, “They’re adult men now. You can’t tell them what to do.” You’ve done that, haven’t you?

Ann (08:33):

Yeah, because I feel like we’re going over to their house and we’re here to see you and they’re on their phone. “I want to talk to you. That’s why I came over to talk to you guys.” So yes, I am not very good that way. I should say nothing. That’s what we’re supposed to say.

Dave (08:48):

Hopefully, they’re probably modeling what they’ve seen.

Ann (08:50):

Yes.

Dave (08:51):

So let’s talk about the cell phone in your marriage. Here’s a couple thoughts. The first one would be this: marriage attention leads to marriage affection.

Ann (09:00):

Explain it.

Dave (09:01):

So whatever you’re giving your attention to, you develop a relationship with. So obviously if that attention is focusing on your spouse and you’re giving attention to your wife or to your husband, affection develops. I mean, it can also lead to conflict, but man, when you’re like, “My eyes are locked in. I’m going to be focused on you, not like you’re talking and I’ve got the phone in my hand or even on my leg.” And we think, “Oh, well, it’s off. I mean, it’s on vibrate.” But what happens when you’re talking to me? What just happened on the couch? And my phone goes bzzt. And everything in me because we’re so trained, the dopamine in my brain’s starting to say, “Reward, reward, reward. I got to see it.” And it’s like, I can feel it on my—and you even can. And so I’m fighting this thing like I want to give my attention to her, but I want to see what it was because maybe somebody’s asked me to play golf or something.

(09:58):

Or it could be a post, a social media. It’s just crazy. But the second you do this, what’s it say to your spouse?

Ann (10:06):

Well, especially if we’re not in a big conversation, it’s not that big of a deal. But if we’re in something deep or a conflict or something that really matters and the person’s like, oh, looking down and then they open it, it’s really hurtful. And so I think what I can do at times, I’m like, “Oh, so you’re not even paying attention. You don’t even care.” And I think we can all do that. And it’s easy too, especially if you’re in a relationship where you have conflict and you keep having conflict. It’s just an easy escape. And I think that’s a big deal.

Dave (10:42):

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There was a little reel of Simon Sinek, corporate speaker, writer, author. You probably recognize his name, but he’s on stage and he says, “What happens when you’re in a conversation with somebody and you have this in your hand?

(11:44):

You have a cell phone in your hand.” He goes, “You know what happens? It says to everybody in the room, you’re not the most important person.”

Ann (11:51):

Even if it’s just in your hand.

Dave (11:52):

Yeah, if it’s in your hand. And he says, and it’s convicting because he says, “You go out to lunch with your friend or your spouse or anybody. And what we do to say, okay, it’s in my hand.” We put it on the table, and we even turn it over, so we don’t see it. He goes, “It still says you are not the most important person; this is. And if something happens that I need to…”—he goes, “Get rid of it.” He throws the thing down. He goes, “It should not be—you can get through this hour without a cell phone.” I don’t know if you know this. They’ve done research. Doctors have done this. If you don’t have your cell phone around you for an hour, you’ll still live. Did you know that? They’ve proven you’ll still live.

Ann (12:32):

Well, think about, I’m going to ask you as a listener, before you go to bed, do you look at your phone? Is it beside the bed? For me, it is because I have my alarm on my phone. And also, is it the first thing you do in the morning is pick it up and look at what’s going on?

Dave (12:47):

Obviously, we have to get a handle. I mean, it isn’t like we’re going to live in a world with no digital cell phones. We have to have boundaries.

Ann (12:56):

But the truth is, and this is what our second point was at the conference: marriage distraction leads to marriage drift. And I think that’s really true. Distraction in any area, it could even be video games, whatever it could be. But when we’re both distracted, we kind of disconnect from each other in every way.

Dave (13:16):

Yeah, it’s interesting. Remember our first year of marriage?

Ann (13:18):

Yes.

Dave (13:21):

I think we’re sitting at the Weekend to Remember two weeks before we got married and Dennis Rainey said something about, pretty sure it’s in the Book of Deuteronomy, which said men in those days when they got married did not go to war—

Ann (13:35):

The first year.

Dave (13:36):

—for a year. It was a principle to say you need to stay home and build your new marriage to a place of stability, and then you can come back to your job basically. And so we decided first year of marriage, no TV. Remember that? We had one.

Ann (13:53):

Yeah, we had one.

Dave (13:53):

We put it in the closet.

Ann (13:54):

Yes.

Bruce (13:55):

Deuteronomy 24:5.

Dave (13:57):

Yeah. The only time I really struggled, and we might’ve pulled it out, was for the Super Bowl.

Ann (14:03):

Yeah, we pulled it out.

Dave (14:03):

I’m like, we got to pull it out and watch the Super Bowl.

Ann (14:05):

We also pulled it out at Christmas because we watched one movie and we had never seen it before; It’s a Wonderful Life.

Dave (14:10):

It’s a Wonderful Life. Awesome movie.

Ann (14:11):

But do you remember what we did those nights?

Dave (14:13):

I mean, there were no cell phones back then, but it was like TV or anything could have been a distraction.

Ann (14:18):

Yeah, you don’t talk. You just watch.

Dave (14:20):

And we built our marriage because what do you do? You sit and you talk. You communicate.

Ann (14:27):

It was probably our year that we fought the most because it was our first year we’re figuring things out. But also, I’m thinking if we did have the TV out or if we had a phone, it’s really easy just to not engage with each other because it’s hard. It’s difficult.

Dave (14:44):

And that’s easy. And you do get dopamine hits. I found this week, I’m like, “What am I doing scrolling through Facebook or Instagram looking for some funny reel or somebody talking theology or another home run?” I mean, it’s just like, what a waste of time.

Ann (15:04):

But we’re all hooked to it.

Dave (15:05):

And you’re sitting over there doing that same thing. And so we’re in the same room, but we’re distracted. And I think the point is you look up after days, weeks, months of this, you’re like, “We have drifted.” Because we’ve said here many times, drift is natural. The only way you get oneness is you got to work at it. And part of it is maybe we encourage our listeners and ourselves to do a digital Sabbath.

Ann (15:30):

Yeah.

Dave (15:31):

Maybe it’s a day a week.

Ann (15:32):

We have a son that does that.

Dave (15:33):

Maybe it’s an hour a day. I don’t know.

Ann (15:36):

I mean, this is going to be convicting for a lot of you, but especially if you have kids in your house, what would it look like when you came home from work or you stopped work if you’re working at home and you said, “Hey, from five o’clock to eight o’clock, there are no phones going on in the house. We’re going to engage with each other.” You know what I remember about that first year of marriage is we played a ton of games and we laughed. Remember our workouts? We’d work out together and we would laugh our heads off.

Dave (16:05):

I remember doing sit-ups at the top of the stairs.

Ann (16:08):

And running sprints in the street.

Dave (16:09):

So I could go beyond horizontal and you’d hold my legs and I’d—we should do that again.

Ann (16:15):

But those card games, we would fight and laugh. That connection is from God and it’s this gift from God.

Dave (16:24):

So hey, if you’re listening or watching and you’re like, “We’re going to do this,” shoot us an email.

Ann (16:29):

Yeah.

Dave (16:29):

We’d love to hear what your plan is to get a grip on the digital part of your marriage.

Ann (16:35):

Okay. Let’s ask the booth, what would you do, Bruce or Chancel, if your spouse came and said, “Hey, I’d really like to do. Let’s not be on our phones from-”

Dave (16:47):

A digital fast.

Ann (16:48):

A fast. Even if it’s five to eight, or maybe it’s a Sabbath, a Sunday. Would you guys do that?

Bruce (16:56):

So there’s two things. One, I would want to, but I wouldn’t want to. No, it’s kind of like exercising. It’s like what I feel like is not exercising, but what I want is to exercise. So would I feel like doing the fast from the phone? No. Do I want to? Yes. So I, in my heart of hearts, would appreciate that, but I would definitely not love it.

Ann (17:23):

Is there a way to approach your spouse if they’re like, “This is dumb. I don’t want to do it.” Maybe we make it really simple like, “Hey, let’s try it once a week.”

Chancel (17:31):

Yeah, I would definitely do it, but I feel as though, to your point, there would probably need to be, “Let’s do this instead of doing that.” So in other words, “Hey, let’s watch a movie together,” instead of being in separate places of the house and on our phone. Or “Hey, let’s go for a walk,” or “Hey, let’s go out to dinner. We’re going to leave our phones at home.” I think just to say, “Let’s be off our phones.” Maybe like, “Okay, then what?”

Bruce (18:05):

Yes.

Ann (18:05):

Strategize what to do instead of. That’s good.

Bruce (18:08):

That’s so funny you say watch a movie together, which is great. But Marie and I have said that before, we’ll both be in bed just scrolling on our phones, watching shorts. And it’s like, “Oh, let’s not waste the night. Let’s do something. Let’s watch a show together.” That’s how low the bar is, that doing something is watching a show.

Dave (18:28):

Watching another screen.

Ann (18:28):

Another screen.

Dave (18:29):

Yeah, that’s great.

Ann (18:29):

Yeah, that’s true.

Dave (18:30):

I tell you, when we watch a movie together and I look over and you’re on your phone, it makes me mad.

Ann (18:36):

Me too.

Dave (18:36):

I’m really mad at her. Share this moment with me.

Bruce (18:40):

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I made the mistake of saying, when you’re on your phone scrolling endlessly, it’s unattractive to me. Which she immediately was like, “You know what’s unattractive to me is when you play video games.” I was like, “Yeah, but I’m accomplishing something.”

Dave (18:57):

And getting to the next level.

Ann (18:58):

I’m getting to the next level.

Bruce (19:00):

Yeah, exactly. But no, yeah.

Ann (19:02):

I know. We can totally judge each other, but I think it’d be an interesting conversation to have with God. Like, God, what does this look like? And even talk to each other about it. What does this look like for our marriage, for our family? What could it look like? Are we satisfied with where we are right now?

Dave (19:19):

Yeah, which brings you to another thought that we haven’t even talked about is this device, this device—

Ann (19:29):

Pointing to your iPhone, if you’re just listening.

Dave (19:31):

—iPad, could lead to sin as well.

Ann (19:34):

Oh, yeah.

Dave (19:34):

I mean, one of the stats I just came across says this, 75% of men and 45% of women admit to viewing pornography in the last 30 days. 50% of men said no one knew about their struggle. 84% said they have no one helping them with their struggle. And again, this is an amazing tool. The Word of God, we can share Christ on this digital device. It’s an amazing blessing. There’s a lot of good, but it’s a portal to evil.

Ann (20:10):

And not only that, that is a huge area, but even comparison. You can watch reels; you can watch these things about these husbands that—this one husband just dances with his wife in the kitchen every night. I’m like, “I wish Dave would dance with me in the kitchen.” Or another one is like, “I will never let you take out the trash. This is my job.” And every woman’s like, “Oh, I wish my husband would say that.” So it’s the comparison thing too.

Dave (20:37):

Yeah. So anyway, just a heads up, be very careful. I mean, there’s got to be boundaries, restrictions.

Ann (20:48):

And I will say, I have total access to your phone. I know your passwords. I know everything.

Dave (20:53):

Your spouse should have, you can pick it up anytime you want, look at anything. If you’re hiding that from your spouse, that’s a red flag.

(21:04):

Guys, we need men in our life to check us, to ask us questions about that. And then your spouse, women need the same thing. I remember one time I was going to dinner. We were on a Lions road trip. So we’re in a hotel in a city somewhere. And Dan Orlovsky was one of our backup quarterbacks, and I decided to have dinner that night. And I go down to his room. It’s just down the hall in the hotel. And his door was, the lock was open. And so I push open the door, “Hey, Dan, let’s go.” And he’s not there. There’s nobody there. So I’m like, “Where is he? He’s not even there.” And then so I called him and he’s down the lobby. He goes, “Dude, I’m down in the lobby. I’m waiting for you.” So I shouldn’t tell you this, but before I left his room, I took toilet paper and TP’d the whole room.

(21:48):

It’s pretty funny. We could do those things, right? It’s fun. So when he came back, there’s toilet paper all through his hotel room. Anyway, I go downstairs to meet him and go to dinner, and many people know Dan Orlovsky. He’s an ESPN broadcaster now. He’s more famous now than he ever was as NFL player. But I said to him, I said, “Dude, why did you leave your door unlocked?” He said, “Dude, I never locked my door on road trips because I don’t ever want to be alone and have that door locked and get in trouble with something on the TV or my phone. So I want a teammate to be able to walk in any second. And that helps me take care of temptation in my life.” I’m like, “Whoa, that’s pretty cool.” So I mean, all that to say, what boundaries do you have?

(22:31):

What safeguards are you employing?

Ann (22:33):

I think it would be just a great conversation to have with your spouse, with your family, with your kids of what’s your goal? What do you want this to look like as a family?

Dave (22:42):

Yeah. So at the end of the day, I think I would say, if you want your marriage to thrive, if you want your family to thrive, it’s this simple. Get your eyes off of this and get them on this and this.

(22:58):

I’d say go vertical and go horizontal. I mean, put them on your family, put them on your spouse, put them on your God, put them on the Word of God. If you’re going to use your phone, use it to do the one-year Bible or study your word.

Ann (23:11):

And I’m thinking of Romans 12:2, which says, Paul says, “Do not be conformed to this world,”—which is when we’re on our devices, we’re being conformed to the world, even the algorithms—“but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” How do we renew our minds? We’re in the Word. We’re talking to God. That’s the best place to go.

Dave (23:31):

Yeah. We wrote this at the end of our talk at the marriage conference. What if you treated your spouse like your phone? Think about it. What if you responded to your spouse as quickly as you responded to a text? Some people don’t respond to texts very quickly, but I do. What if you carried their words in your heart the way you carry your phone in your pocket? What if you checked in with them as often as you check your apps?

(23:56):

It would change everything. Here’s the last thought. Your phone isn’t the enemy, but it’s a competitor and every day you’re casting votes with your attention. So here’s the question. What or who is getting the best of you? Because the marriage you want tomorrow is built by the attention you give it today. And by the way, if you want help in your marriage, we have put together some of our best stuff on marriage. It’s at FamilyLife.com/MarriageHelp. So it’s yours for free. And again, it’s FamilyLife.com/MarriageHelp. And if you want a great resource, I think it’s one of the best books ever written on marriage, is the one we wrote a few years ago called Vertical Marriage. And you can get that at FamilyLife.com as well.

Ann (24:45):

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